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Diversified Option Selling Portfolio


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Diversified Option Selling Portfolio

  #1021 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
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PK 1 View Post

Fees: I'm on IB

As you trade with IB you should be aware that margin for naked short options on futures is extremely high. In case I sell options on my IB account I always sell option spreads. Here you get a reasonable margin. (I mainly use the IB account for trading stocks.)

Best regards, Myrrdin

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  #1022 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
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I don't know how it is in other countries but selling options on futures in USA has a much better US tax rate than on ETFs.

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  #1023 (permalink)
 
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 PK 1 
Kassel / Germany
 
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myrrdin View Post
As you trade with IB you should be aware that margin for naked short options on futures is extremely high.


Quoting 
But the point is the ratio between both would be on SPAN similar, not the same but the difference not that big. I'm talking about the ratio of the margin, which is the point when comparing.

@Ron great point, need to check this

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  #1024 (permalink)
yangjian
ximen China
 
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learn a lot from this thread!
I almost got killed by selling naked calls on grains ealier this month.my account lost 8% in 3 days because or the rally of gains.

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  #1025 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
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Here is a study of CLv calls from 20170623 when futures were 43.51 to 20170703 when futures were 47.49.

On left is ATM call 43.50. On right is 60.50 call with quantity of 10 that uses about same amount of IM.



On 20170703 the ATM call had a 19.4% draw down or was losing $2,338.02. The 60.50 call had a 34.9% draw down or was losing $4,080.20.

On 20170707 the 60.50 call is at 60% of initial premium while the ATM call is at 113% and the ATM call on 20170721 is still losing money.

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  #1026 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
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ron99 View Post
Here is a study of CLv calls from 20170623 when futures were 43.51 to 20170703 when futures were 47.49.

On left is ATM call 43.50. On right is 60.50 call with quantity of 10 that uses about same amount of IM.

On 20170703 the ATM call had a 19.4% draw down or was losing $2,338.02. The 60.50 call had a 34.9% draw down or was losing $4,080.20.

On 20170707 the 60.50 call is at 60% of initial premium while the ATM call is at 113% and the ATM call on 20170721 is still losing money.

As Ron's study shows - as expected - the risk of ending up in the money is larger for ATM options. But drawdowns often are more severe for OTM options, and can enforce being stopped out. This fact is reflected by a higher relation of margin per premium for OTM options.

Best regards, Myrrdin

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  #1027 (permalink)
uuu1965
Riga Latvia
 
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myrrdin View Post
(I mainly use the IB account for trading stocks.)

Best regards, Myrrdin

Would you please make а comparision on trading stocks and options on futures?

Many years ago I also traded stocks...when AAPL was ~15$ per share

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  #1028 (permalink)
Calamari88
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PK 1 View Post
Just curious, does it pay out selling calls deep OTM (in case of Oil-Future). What strike are you thinking of? When it comes to Oil I prefer USO, better adjustable and on top additional % due to the decay when selling calls. Comparing the margin and return on CL everytime I check I prefer to stay with USO. So I'm just curious how it pays out for you.

I haven't examined the different strikes yet because I wasn't sure if it's worth looking at them yet with the FOMC meeting coming up. I'll check them out on Thursday. There haven't been as many attractive CL option selling opportunities for me in the past couple years since the market dropped and lost volatility. I used to sell them monthly from 2010-2015 and did quite well. For the sake of my sleep I like to sell them with strikes beyond the underlying futures daily limit of $10.

I've never looked into USO options. Are those stock options? I tried looking them up on my OEC platform but couldn't find any listed.

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  #1029 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
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uuu1965 View Post
Would you please make а comparision on trading stocks and options on futures?

Many years ago I also traded stocks...when AAPL was ~15$ per share

For me these two accounts are very different stories.

In my stocks account I have parked the money that probably my children will get some time. I hold stocks of companies that - according to my opinion - will be successful in the long run. I intend to hold most of these stocks for many years and sell them only in case of major changes in the success story of the company. Once in a while I use free margin of the stock account for other trades, eg. short option trades.

My trading account at deCarleys is significantly smaller. Here I trade short options as described in this thread, outright futures, and futures spreads.

But of course you can trade stocks in a very different way than I do.

Best regards, Mırrdin

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  #1030 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
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Calamari88 View Post
For the sake of my sleep I like to sell them with strikes beyond the underlying futures daily limit of $10.

In case it is your opinion that the daily limit of the underlying future helps you to get out of a short option trade in case of a "black swan", I have to disappoint you. Options do not have a limit. Whereas the price for most futures cannot move more than a defined price range per day, the price for options can. And you can be sure that it does, as future traders who are caught in a limit up move begin buying calls to neutralize their short position.

Best regards, Myrrdin

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Last Updated on May 26, 2022


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