NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Diversified Option Selling Portfolio


Discussion in Options

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one myrrdin with 812 posts (1,274 thanks)
    2. looks_two ron99 with 207 posts (489 thanks)
    3. looks_3 manuel999 with 109 posts (108 thanks)
    4. looks_4 TraderGriz with 66 posts (26 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one SMCJB with 2.4 thanks per post
    2. looks_two ron99 with 2.4 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 myrrdin with 1.6 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 manuel999 with 1 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 283,087 views
    2. thumb_up 2,296 thanks given
    3. group 139 followers
    1. forum 1,598 posts
    2. attach_file 93 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Diversified Option Selling Portfolio

  #351 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785

I know this isn't option selling but I wonder if this is a way to play possible high volatile days like the upcoming Aug 12th Crop Production report. Buy OTM options at the same price. Both puts and calls since you don't know which way it will move.

The options on the winning side could move far more than the losing side.

Here is an example in corn. On 20160620, Sep corn was 4.267. The next day it dropped 24.5 cents. If you had bought calls and puts, the next day the puts would have made more than the calls lost.

Here are some examples. The lower the DTE the better it worked.

Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
Exit Strategy
NinjaTrader
Pivot Indicator like the old SwingTemp by Big Mike
NinjaTrader
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
REcommedations for programming help
Sierra Chart
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
33 thanks
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
26 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
24 thanks
Bigger Wins or Fewer Losses?
23 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
19 thanks
  #352 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: Commodities
Posts: 1,938 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 3,688
Thanks Received: 2,651


ron99 View Post
I know this isn't option selling but I wonder if this is a way to play possible high volatile days like the upcoming Aug 12th Crop Production report. Buy OTM options at the same price. Both puts and calls since you don't know which way it will move.

The options on the winning side could move far more than the losing side.

I had a look at this strategy some time ago. The problem is that volatility rises before these reports, and it collapses afterwards. In case the report causes a large move this strategy works. In case there is only a minor move it causes a loss.

Many reports are non-events. I am not sure that this strategy in the long run is profitable.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #353 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785



myrrdin View Post
I had a look at this strategy some time ago. The problem is that volatility rises before these reports, and it collapses afterwards. In case the report causes a large move this strategy works. In case there is only a minor move it causes a loss.

Many reports are non-events. I am not sure that this strategy in the long run is profitable.

Best regards, Myrrdin

OK I see that is what happened in 2014.

Reply With Quote
  #354 (permalink)
 
SMCJB's Avatar
 SMCJB 
Houston TX
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT and Stellar
Broker: Advantage Futures
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little Equities, Fixed Income, Metals and Crypto.
Frequency: Many times daily
Duration: Never
Posts: 5,049 since Dec 2013
Thanks Given: 4,386
Thanks Received: 10,206


ron99 View Post
I know this isn't option selling but I wonder if this is a way to play possible high volatile days like the upcoming Aug 12th Crop Production report. Buy OTM options at the same price. Both puts and calls since you don't know which way it will move.

The options on the winning side could move far more than the losing side.

Here is an example in corn. On 20160620, Sep corn was 4.267. The next day it dropped 24.5 cents. If you had bought calls and puts, the next day the puts would have made more than the calls lost.


myrrdin View Post
I had a look at this strategy some time ago. The problem is that volatility rises before these reports, and it collapses afterwards. In case the report causes a large move this strategy works. In case there is only a minor move it causes a loss.

Many reports are non-events. I am not sure that this strategy in the long run is profitable.

I was thinking the same as you @myrrdin, that the implied vol crush following the report would kill any profits. But when you look at @ron99 's examples in his first post you'll see the implied vol wasn't crushed, in fact the Call IVs actually went up.


ron99 View Post
OK I see that is what happened in 2014.

The big difference in your first example, which seemed to make money, and your second example which doesn't is how far the options are out of the money. For the options in June you used a straddle that's width was equivalent to 42% of the underlying price, but in your 2014 examples that lose money the straddle width's are only 7% and 14% of the underlying. What happens if you looked at a 3.20/4.30 Strangle or even a 3/4.50 (for 20140811)

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #355 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785


SMCJB View Post
The big difference in your first example, which seemed to make money, and your second example which doesn't is how far the options are out of the money. For the options in June you used a straddle that's width was equivalent to 42% of the underlying price, but in your 2014 examples that lose money the straddle width's are only 7% and 14% of the underlying. What happens if you looked at a 3.20/4.30 Strangle or even a 3/4.50 (for 20140811)

For the Sep contracts, 11 DTE on 8/11/14, the 3.20 was $19. The rest of your examples were at cabinet.

Here is what you get for the Oct 2014 46 DTE options. They are still losers.



My first example were just a random date picked before a big down day. The rest of the examples were the day before a major report.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #356 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: Commodities
Posts: 1,938 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 3,688
Thanks Received: 2,651

Sold the KCH C240, following a recent suggestion of James Cordier.

The current crop is huge, and even some problems during blooming period should not pose problems for the next couple of months.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #357 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785


myrrdin View Post
Sold the KCH C240, following a recent suggestion of James Cordier.

The current crop is huge, and even some problems during blooming period should not pose problems for the next couple of months.

Best regards, Myrrdin

I'm curious why so high DTE.

Reply With Quote
  #358 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: Commodities
Posts: 1,938 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 3,688
Thanks Received: 2,651


ron99 View Post
I'm curious why so high DTE.

From October 2014 until some time in spring 2016 KC was in a clear downtrend. During this period, I preferred to sell calls with less DTE, as I considered selling KC calls as a directional trade. Recently this has changed, and KC moved above its 200 dma. Thus, I do not expect a further move down as for many months. In my opinion, KC should move sidewards in a wide range. To allow for KC price to move upwards, and still receive an acceptable premium, I decided for the March contract.

Seasonals show a move sidewards until December. At that time, the March options should have lost most of their value.

Finally: My recent experience with coffee calls having less DTE was mixed. On some occasions I was stopped out with a loss.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #359 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785

Here's KCh without abnormally high 2012. I added softs and LC to my Seasonal Futures charts this morning.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/ron.h8870

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #360 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: Commodities
Posts: 1,938 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 3,688
Thanks Received: 2,651



ron99 View Post
Here's KCh without abnormally high 2012. I added softs and LC to my Seasonal Futures charts this morning.

Thanks a lot for your seasonal chart.

There is an interesting difference between your data and MRCI data: The October high of MRCI is lower for all time frames (5, 15, 30 years) than the August high.

The October high, that occurs in some years, is probably caused by dryness during the blooming period. Your data shows very nicely, that in years with a small crop (and consequently high prices) - KCH11 and KCH15 - the move upwards in October is approx. 40 cents, whereas in years with a large crop (KCH10, KCH16 - as in 2016) this move is approx. 15 cents. This confirms my assumption that potential dryness during the blooming period will be less critical this year than in years with small supply.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:




Last Updated on May 26, 2022


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts