Diversified Option Selling Portfolio (Page 8) - Options on Futures | futures.io
futures.io futures trading
 

Go Back   futures.io

> Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Traders Hideout > Options on Futures


Diversified Option Selling Portfolio
Started:September 6th, 2015 (11:22 AM) by myrrdin Views / Replies:26,558 / 588
Last Reply:4 Minutes Ago (02:52 AM) Attachments:39

Welcome to futures.io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike
     

Reply
 39  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread

Diversified Option Selling Portfolio

Old October 26th, 2015, 12:13 PM   #71 (permalink)
Elite Member
Linz Austria
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, Vantage, Trade Navigator
Broker/Data: DeCarley, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 685 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,033 given, 550 received

Current positions of my option selling portfolio:

CH P340
WZ C5.1
WH C6
BOH P26

LHZ C70
LHZ C75
LHG P60
LCZ P130
LCG P130

GCG P1050
SIH P14

CLK P45

ESF P1550
ESF P1625
ESF P1675
ESF P1725
ESG P1600
ESG P1650

The ES puts have different lot sizes, as I always enter a new lot, when the original value of all ES put options has been reduced by approx. 10 %.

For some time I published all of my trade entries and exits here. But the interest seems to be limited. No questions, comments or "thank yous". Thus I will only publish general discussions and a weekly update of the portfolio. In case someone is interested in trade entries and exits, please let me know.

Best regards, Myrdin

Reply With Quote
     
The following 7 users say Thank You to myrrdin for this post:
     

Old November 1st, 2015, 10:52 AM   #72 (permalink)
Elite Member
Linz Austria
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, Vantage, Trade Navigator
Broker/Data: DeCarley, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 685 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,033 given, 550 received

Current positions of my option selling portfolio:

CH P340
WH C5.5
BOH P26

LHG P60
LCZ P130
LCG P130
LCG C156

ESF P1675
ESF P1725
ESG P1600
ESG P1650
ESG P1680

Took profits in Gold and Silver puts as well as in Hog and Wheat calls. Closed the Crude puts with a minor loss.

Entered new trades in the LC C156 and the WH C550.

Reached target in two ES put positions, and sold the ESG P1680 instead.

Best regards, Myrdin

Reply With Quote
     
The following 3 users say Thank You to myrrdin for this post:
     

Old November 3rd, 2015, 10:12 AM   #73 (permalink)
Silver bullet
Valencia / Spain
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: MC
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: ES, EURUSD
 
PK 1's Avatar
 
Posts: 45 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 105 given, 29 received



myrrdin View Post
For some time I published all of my trade entries and exits here. But the interest seems to be limited.
Best regards, Myrdin

Similar words I remember on the first pages of the thread regarding selling puts by Ron. There's a lot more public interest right now. Maybe selling options on futures, especially commodities is not that 'cushy' opposite to trading outright futures or stocks. I've read your posts on the one german thread regarding selling options, the ES-Thread and here with huge interest and people reading your posts should notice that you know what you are talking about, being very objective and profound. But I don't have much to add to the discussions as I've started out with options trading begin of this year, nethertheless investing a few hours every day to plan and structure my systems, quite successful and constant for now and most of the return comes from active management of the positions.

With cash secured puts / covered calls as a base I'd like to add options on futures (partly I did already). The book from Cordier and Gross is very useful for this. Started with ES, but different approuch than only focussing on delta and margin requ. as many do here. Coming from Fx and Futures I prefer to use my trading system for trading ES and CL for the right moment to sell the options. This is quite handy fortunataly, maybe the ROI is less due to waiting time and thus missed trades but the risk is way lower then and thats my main concern. Most might handle it different but Calls I never sell naked, either covered or via Calendar Spread, especially in case of futures no verticals, only calendar spread / reverse calendar spread.

AFAIK your focus is on the diversity and the knowledge of the underlying and very little the chart itself. That's something one can read in the Cordier-Book also. Even though they mention simple technical approuches for the better moment of selling they think that the major direction will follow the fundamentals in the long run. But the details when selling options on futures usually being 1-2 months in the trades then technicals can be so important to enter at the right momrnt in order to finish the trade with a decent premium and free the margin instead of waiting twice as much just to reach the targets.

Adding future options on ES / CL to my approuches many times I'm thinking about your trades and other futures in order to diversify. Some are to risky for me, to close to the current price. But thats just for me. At the moment I try to figure out whether its a good idea to play with much longer DTE, like 120-140. My investigations the last half year is that this is gonna payout quite well with a holding time between a few weeks to 1,5 or mostly 2 months.

So my idea is to diversify as you do it, not putting all on one horse and as Cordier/Gross are preaching it. Getting into the fundamentals as necessary seems to be the key and the 'problem' otherwise the huge volatility with its really huge moves are to scary to jump in. Are you using the information from MRCI for having covered the seasonal aspect with your decision? The Hightower-Report I still have to check how to get it and then how to interpret. After adding ES/CL for my writing what would you suggest? I remember that Wheat / Corn / Soybeans could be a good choice.

Last but not least thanks for doing this great thread!


Last edited by PK 1; November 3rd, 2015 at 10:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
The following 5 users say Thank You to PK 1 for this post:
     

Old November 3rd, 2015, 10:41 AM   #74 (permalink)
Elite Member
Linz Austria
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, Vantage, Trade Navigator
Broker/Data: DeCarley, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 685 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,033 given, 550 received


PK 1 View Post
Similar words I remember on the first pages of the thread regarding selling puts by Ron.

AFAIK your focus is on the diversity and the knowledge of the underlying and very little the chart itself. That's something one can read in the Cordier-Book also. Even though they mention simple technical approuches for the better moment of selling they think that the major direction will follow the fundamentals in the long run. But the details when selling options on futures usually being 1-2 months in the trades then technicals can be so important to enter at the right momrnt in order to finish the trade with a decent premium and free the margin instead of waiting twice as much just to reach the targets.

At the moment I try to figure out whether its a good idea to play with much longer DTE, like 120-140. My investigations the last half year is that this is gonna payout quite well with a holding time between a few weeks to 1,5 or mostly 2 months.

So my idea is to diversify as you do it, not putting all on one horse and as Cordier/Gross are preaching it. Getting into the fundamentals as necessary seems to be the key and the 'problem' otherwise the huge volatility with its really huge moves are to scary to jump in. Are you using the information from MRCI for having covered the seasonal aspect with your decision? The Hightower-Report I still have to check how to get it and then how to interpret. After adding ES/CL for my writing what would you suggest? I remember that Wheat / Corn / Soybeans could be a good choice.

Last but not least thanks for doing this great thread!

In case you are interested in my entries and exits, please let me know. I am happy to share them.

Principally I think the grains and beans are a good choice for selling options, although currently option prices are relatively low. But this will change. Meat markets are difficult, and it takes a long time to understand them. And Softs markets have a limited open interest.

Yes, my focus is on the diversity and the knowledge of the underlying. I would be happy to have more knowledge on charts, but this is a large project for the future. I am sure knowledge about technicals would further improve my trading. But studying many underlyings is time consuming ...

The holding time of my trades usually is between 3 and 6 months. Of course it depends on the underlying - eg. in the meats different contracts can trade rather independent of each other.

Yes, I use MRCI data for the seasonals. But seasonals are only one among several criteria. I do not enter a trade solely based on seasonal data.

In case of further questions, please let me know.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
     
The following 4 users say Thank You to myrrdin for this post:
     

Old November 3rd, 2015, 12:21 PM   #75 (permalink)
Elite Member
Zurich, Switzerland
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: Ukulele
 
Posts: 16 since Mar 2011
Thanks: 330 given, 12 received

Futures Edge on FIO
@myrrdin,

I want to second @PK 1 and encourage you to keep up posting. Unfortunately I can't contribute a lot to the option selling topic as I'm still learning the fundamentals (reading Cordier, through 500 pages of Ron's thread...). Short term I have to concentrate on a single future until feeling comfortable with it. But soaking up your post on background info about the commodities and different approaches to selling options.

thank you,
askerix

Reply With Quote
     
The following 5 users say Thank You to askerix for this post:
     

Old November 3rd, 2015, 12:32 PM   #76 (permalink)
Elite Member
Linz Austria
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, Vantage, Trade Navigator
Broker/Data: DeCarley, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 685 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,033 given, 550 received


askerix View Post
@myrrdin,

I want to second @PK 1 and encourage you to keep up posting. Unfortunately I can't contribute a lot to the option selling topic as I'm still learning the fundamentals (reading Cordier, through 500 pages of Ron's thread...). Short term I have to concentrate on a single future until feeling comfortable with it. But soaking up your post on background info about the commodities and different approaches to selling options.

thank you,
askerix

I am happy to help everybody visiting this site. And I appreciate good questions - a contribution everybody can make.

In case you want to concentrate on one commodity, my choice would be the ES puts. Among the renewable resouces, I would trade corn or soybean options.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
     
The following 5 users say Thank You to myrrdin for this post:
     

Old November 3rd, 2015, 02:29 PM   #77 (permalink)
Elite Member
Linz Austria
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, Vantage, Trade Navigator
Broker/Data: DeCarley, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 685 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,033 given, 550 received

Bought back the LCZ P130 with a profit of 74 %. Reached stop loss of the underlying at 140.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to myrrdin for this post:
     

Old November 4th, 2015, 05:55 AM   #78 (permalink)
Elite Member
Linz Austria
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, Vantage, Trade Navigator
Broker/Data: DeCarley, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 685 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,033 given, 550 received

ESF P1675 reached target and was bought back yesterday. Sold the ESG P1700 instead.

Sold the ESG P1720 after the break through 2100 to achieve the target value of my ES puts. They had lost value during the upmove of the index.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to myrrdin for this post:
     

Old November 4th, 2015, 06:18 AM   #79 (permalink)
Elite Member
Linz Austria
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, Vantage, Trade Navigator
Broker/Data: DeCarley, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 685 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,033 given, 550 received

Currently I practice the ES put selling program in the following way:

I buy back at 40 % (60 % profit).

I sell a new (small) position whenever the value of all ES puts has decreased by approx. 5 %. The reason behind is that in this way the size of the position is always 95 to 100 % of the target at least (of course it can get higher, if the ES moves against me). Furthermore, with time there will be a larger number of different strike prices and entry / exit dates in the portfolio. Entries and exits are averaged. Thus, I want to avoid being hit by a strong move lower of the ES future at a "good" or a "bad" time. Without hedging, I am always at the same risk.

I hedge the position from time to time at 50 or 100 % via short outright futures. This is not so much for raising profits, but for a good sleep at night. Currently I am hedged at 100 % since yesterday before the close. I will lift the hedge on a move above yesterdays high, or on a move down and a strong upwards reversal.

Exit point for buying back the options is the 200 dma (days moving average) of the S&P index. These events should be rare enough that losses are over-compensated significantly by profits.

Value of the ES puts currently is 9 % of the account value.

Questions or comments are - as always - highly welcome.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
     
The following 5 users say Thank You to myrrdin for this post:
     

Old November 4th, 2015, 09:57 AM   #80 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Munich Germany
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 12 since Sep 2015
Thanks: 44 given, 11 received



myrrdin View Post
I am happy to help everybody visiting this site. And I appreciate good questions - a contribution everybody can make.

In case you want to concentrate on one commodity, my choice would be the ES puts. Among the renewable resouces, I would trade corn or soybean options.

Best regards, Myrrdin

I am also interested in your trading. At the moment I am concentrating on the ES puts ...

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to satghost for this post:
     

Reply



futures.io > Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Traders Hideout > Options on Futures > Diversified Option Selling Portfolio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

Trading Technologies: ADL hands-on

Dec 13

Normal webinar schedule resumes after the holidays

January

Ernie Chan: Risk Management

Elite only

Dedicated Trading Servers: Advantages/Disadvantages w/sam028

Elite only

An Afternoon with FIO member Massive I

Elite only

Leo Murphy: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Webinar: Option Selling with and without insurance w/Carley Garner Big Mike Options on Futures 50 March 24th, 2015 06:52 PM
Portfolio Trader no erocla MultiCharts 1 November 27th, 2014 11:56 AM
"DTS" Diversified Trading System - Anybody out there!? ShaunG Vendors and Product Reviews 2 July 30th, 2014 06:54 AM
Diversified Trading Systems soch Vendors and Product Reviews 3 February 18th, 2013 10:12 PM
Portfolio Construction dgresens Psychology and Money Management 3 October 25th, 2012 04:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:56 AM.

Copyright © 2016 by futures.io. All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
 
no new posts
Page generated 2016-12-10 in 0.16 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.167.129.169