NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Selling Options on Futures?


Discussion in Options

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one ron99 with 2,221 posts (4,489 thanks)
    2. looks_two SMCJB with 346 posts (733 thanks)
    3. looks_3 kevinkdog with 341 posts (400 thanks)
    4. looks_4 myrrdin with 288 posts (408 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one SMCJB with 2.1 thanks per post
    2. looks_two ron99 with 2 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 myrrdin with 1.4 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 kevinkdog with 1.2 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 1,985,502 views
    2. thumb_up 9,259 thanks given
    3. group 458 followers
    1. forum 7,370 posts
    2. attach_file 794 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Selling Options on Futures?

  #1201 (permalink)
 Reno 
Uzbekistan
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: QST
Trading: Stocks. Options
Posts: 2 since Mar 2013
Thanks Given: 0
Thanks Received: 0

Hi to all!
Trading "selling options" with Vision broker using QST platform.

I have few ideas:
1) sell Calls NG 4.4Strike May aprox 250-270$
2) Strangle for CL 105/86 Strikes June aprox. 500$. Will close strangle before may
3) Sold Put for Euro strike 1.2100 312$ (June)
4) Today i am looking for /CT selling calls

Any thoughts?
Thnx, Reno

Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Pivot Indicator like the old SwingTemp by Big Mike
NinjaTrader
REcommedations for programming help
Sierra Chart
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
Exit Strategy
NinjaTrader
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
29 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
24 thanks
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
24 thanks
Bigger Wins or Fewer Losses?
21 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
17 thanks
  #1202 (permalink)
 
opts's Avatar
 opts 
NW Florida
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OX and TOS
Trading: Futures Options, Stocks
Posts: 234 since Aug 2012
Thanks Given: 29
Thanks Received: 115


Reno View Post
Hi to all!
Trading "selling options" with Vision broker using QST platform.

I have few ideas:
1) sell Calls NG 4.4Strike May aprox 250-270$
2) Strangle for CL 105/86 Strikes June aprox. 500$. Will close strangle before may
3) Sold Put for Euro strike 1.2100 312$ (June)
4) Today i am looking for /CT selling calls

Any thoughts?
Thnx, Reno


The crude strangle raises a flag with me. The delta on the 86 is .06 and on the 105 is .10. This is very close to the underlying. A quick move in either direction one side will lose money quick but the other side is going to gain value almost as fast. Keep a close eye on this...

Reply With Quote
  #1203 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785



Reno View Post
Hi to all!
Trading "selling options" with Vision broker using QST platform.

I have few ideas:
1) sell Calls NG 4.4Strike May aprox 250-270$
2) Strangle for CL 105/86 Strikes June aprox. 500$. Will close strangle before may
3) Sold Put for Euro strike 1.2100 312$ (June)
4) Today i am looking for /CT selling calls

Any thoughts?
Thnx, Reno

1 & 2 Too close to ITM and too high delta.

Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #1204 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785


britkid99 View Post
Also bearish divergence showing on cummulative delta volume (bottom pane). Currently about 100,000 contracts still holding short from the 1525 push down despite price rising 40 points.

Not saying it is imminent as these things take time to play out, the market may want to push those shorties out before rolling over. Could take till Sell in May, or geopolitical events may force it sooner. Either way I think we soon see 1480 again and then maybe 1380 and we wipe out all of this years gains.

I'm looking at the fundamentals, home sales increasing greatly, retail sales up, car sales up, new hiring, corporate profit up, etc., I think the fundamentals are too strong to see ES < 1500, short term.

Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #1205 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785


alfredoe View Post
James Cordier wrote in his latest article, talking about mistakes selling options close to the money: “Just select options that are at least 50% out of the money and preferably 75% to 100% out of the money. This means looking for markets with a little more volatility and being willing to write them further out in time. Remember that you can sell options four, five or even six months out and still take profits in 60-90 days.”

I could not find even one commodity where you could apply even the 50% out of the money, much less the 75-100%, to get at least a $200 premium going further out in time as much as you can. I would like to see just one example.

You are correct. There isn't much if any money >50% OTM. There are a few things in his book and newsletters that doesn't make sense. And they also don't match how he traded when I had an account there.

Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #1206 (permalink)
alfredoe
Medellin
 
Posts: 32 since Apr 2012
Thanks Given: 36
Thanks Received: 15


kevinkdog View Post
Here are all the trades I have taken this year (I started Feb 1). I didn't calculate the X% out of the money these options initially were (to be honest, I don't even know what this means - maybe someone could provide an example), but all these were around .02 delta.





When you take all these together, from 2/1 to 5/16 the annualized rate of return is around 36.7%.

Of course, I have to start selling a bunch more soon to keep this rate of return up.

Kevin:

Your Premium column is it showing the money received when you sold or is it the net cashed after you bought it back?
Thanks.

Reply With Quote
  #1207 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785


opts View Post
If anyone watched the video links that Ron posted, and if you have not already...just do so.

But, I am wondering how she determined 56 DTE, 100 points away, then 12% after that???

If she used some backtesting methods then that's fine with me. I'm just curious as to how she came up with these variables.

I've been looking at the ES options and even with these parameters there still looks to be decent premium with less than 56 DTE. That brings up the question of if the market goes against you within the first week or so and you want to sell the other side, would there be enough premium remaining to sell the other side given the shorter DTE if you were looking at options with 40 or 35 DTE? Did I say that correctly....uhhh...yes.

I'm guessing she is using 56 DTE (+/-) for the sole purpose that if the market does go the other way hard in the first 10 days or so there is still a good month left (decent premium) to sell the other side. However, it sounds like this is rarely done either way.

Any thoughts?

I don't know why she picked 100 points and 12% more away. Maybe because SP rarely if ever moves that much in 56 DTE?

I looked at a recent worst case scenario. May 2010. ES was ~1200 5/3/10. It dropped to 1014 7/2/10. Using her formula, (1200-100)-12%=968. So her formula covered that big drop.

Now it wouldn't have covered the 2008 drop. But that is where you overrule your criteria based on current conditions.

For the 56 DTE, I'm guessing that for options with the delta she trades, about .0500, that is the sweet spot where time erosion on the premium hits harder.

If you are selling lower delta then the sweet spot for DTE would be higher.

Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #1208 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 3,663 since Jul 2012
Thanks Given: 1,892
Thanks Received: 7,357


alfredoe View Post
Kevin:

Your Premium column is it showing the money received when you sold or is it the net cashed after you bought it back?
Thanks.

This is the premium minus commissions received initially. I plan to keep until expiration if all goes well.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
  #1209 (permalink)
chartminder
edmonton alberta canada
 
Posts: 11 since Dec 2010
Thanks Given: 28
Thanks Received: 3

There isn't much if any money >50% OTM.


Observation: cl june 98 calls drop 41 pts this am. 92 puts up 20 pts. Big shift in expectations.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #1210 (permalink)
 
eudamonia's Avatar
 eudamonia 
Sacramento, CA
 
Experience: None
Platform: None
Broker: ADM and Sierra Charts
Trading: ES, CL
Posts: 315 since Jul 2010
Thanks Given: 308
Thanks Received: 449



Reno View Post
Hi to all!
Trading "selling options" with Vision broker using QST platform.

I have few ideas:
1) sell Calls NG 4.4Strike May aprox 250-270$
2) Strangle for CL 105/86 Strikes June aprox. 500$. Will close strangle before may
3) Sold Put for Euro strike 1.2100 312$ (June)
4) Today i am looking for /CT selling calls

Any thoughts?
Thnx, Reno

The Euro Put is a 0.09 delta and the seasonal tendency is down and the current trend is down.

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote




Last Updated on July 28, 2023


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts