Selling Options on Futures? - Options on Futures | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Selling Options on Futures?
Updated: Views / Replies:947,247 / 7,126
Created: by ron99 Attachments:788

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 100,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 788  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Selling Options on Futures?

  #7111 (permalink)
Strasbourg, France
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: ProRealTime
Broker/Data: SaxoBank, IG Market
Favorite Futures: Brent, Gold, Silver, Cocoa, Coffee C, Platinum, Cotton, Lean Hogs, Natural Gas, Copper, Soybeans
 
Sagal's Avatar
 
Posts: 58 since Mar 2019
Thanks: 19 given, 49 received


yurahoang View Post
...

I have only been selling naked. But hear me out: Im also very picky about the trades, I dont trade often. So far my reasoning is: I want to get really good at analyzing about 15-20 specific trades of specific commodities during specific times of the year, get really good at it, and every year wait for my opportunity during that specific period of time. (For example NG puts in Feb, KC calls in Jan/Feb, Grain Call/Puts during summer-fall...). This is clearly based on seasonality/fundamentals, and even historical volatility. If done properly, there are higher chances to sell further out of money + at higher premium, not to mention with better liquidity. I understand that there are years where seasonality and fundamentals dont work well (like Trade War), but I only need about 12-15 "big" trades to work per year to average relatively safely about 20-25% annual ROI.

...

I am with you at 100% and this is also my strategy (after mixed results trying to get 4 spread contracts expiring each month and opening them 4 months in advance).

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Sagal for this post:
 
  #7112 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: XTrader
Broker/Data: Advantage Futures
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
Posts: 2,914 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 2,349 given, 5,204 received


yurahoang View Post
I have found this thread since last November (after Optionseller.com got wiped out). I am currently going through the thread (Im on page 130), Im learning a lot already, and see that many people have different styles. Just thought Id post to say hi. I see that thread is now a lot less active than it used to be (at page 130), hope that nothing much has changed and everyone is still selling options.

Greetings @yurahoang and Welcome.

While this thread is about selling options on futures as you are probably aware it is heavily concentrated on selling ES options (primarily puts). With the recent volatility in equity markets (Dec18, May19 etc) there's been a lot more risk in selling ES puts, which probably explains the drop in activity in this thread. I believe even @ron99 who is probably the biggest contributor to this thread is currently in pause mode.

You may also want to take a look at this thread [ Diversified Option Selling Portfolio ] which is more commodity related than ES related.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
 
  #7113 (permalink)
Hanoi, Vietnam
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Options on Commodity Futures
 
Posts: 7 since Nov 2018
Thanks: 137 given, 17 received


Thank you! I am aware of the other thread, just thought Id finish this one and move on to the one you said, and after that will seek veterans with my questions. Im at page 250 and see that interest in ES is rising, Ill just skim through anything Im not mainly interested in but still try to finish the thread, there is still so much to learn from every aspect of trading.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to yurahoang for this post:
 
  #7114 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Linz Austria
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, TWS, Vantage
Broker/Data: DeCarley, IAB, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 1,496 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,850 given, 1,934 received


Sagal View Post
Good to see some fresh thinking on this topic.
My impression for commodities with regards to Cordier's recommendation is that a lot has changed since he wrote his books:
- of course he went bankrupt and his clients suffered big losses.
- except for high volatility commodities it is extremely hard and not so much deep in the money anymore to use bull put or bear call spread options (a 400 USD profit is difficult to make and quite risky with the current environment. You can just check soybeans to see an amplitude in a couple of months from 950 to 810 almost back and forth). Otherwise you have to chose an expiry date of more than 6 months.
- it leaves strangle and naked put /call options (or ratio call/put spread)...with their risks...

I agree. If you have a look at my thread "Diversified Option Selling Portfolio" you will see, that currently I prefer trading futures or future spreads.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
 
  #7115 (permalink)
Cleveland, OH
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,995 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 919 given, 5,465 received

yurahoang Welcome. And you're welcome.

With the current US President, things are extremely volatile and thus I am doing very little trading right now.

Reply With Quote
 
  #7116 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: XTrader
Broker/Data: Advantage Futures
Favorite Futures: Energy
 
Posts: 2,914 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 2,349 given, 5,204 received


ron99 View Post
With the current US President, things are extremely volatile

Interesting statement. Obviously it is not fair to blame Obama for the 2008-2009 financial crisis which he inherited, and you can definitely argue that some/a lot/all (take your pick) of the recent stock market rally is due to policy's that have nothing to do with Trump. Hence while I don't personally disagree with your politics (I follow you on Twitter) the actual mathematics do not support your statement.
Average of SPX 30 day Historical Volatility 01Feb09-31Dec12 (Obama's First Term) 19%
Average of SPX 30 day Historical Volatility 01Jan13-31Dec16 (Obama's Second Term) 12.3%
Average of SPX 30 day Historical Volatility 01Feb17-19Jun19 (Trump's First Term) 11.4%

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
 
  #7117 (permalink)
Singapore
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: multiple
Broker/Data: IB, TOS, Charles Swchwab
Favorite Futures: AUD, JPY, CL, NG, GC, KC, CC, ZW, ZS
 
Posts: 9 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 5 received


yurahoang View Post
Hello everybody,

Everybody started hating on options selling and say that it doesnt work and eventually everybody will blow up. During that time I had my doubts so I started digging deeper but in the end, I still think selling options does work, if you know what you do. I see Ron and many people gave good reasons for that. I also realized lots of things Cordier says in the book are not actually true, or at least not true in recent years. I believe Cordier failed because he didnt follow his own rules in the book, the fundamentals were against him but he took the risk anyway, and didnt even exit when he got his chance. In the end, if public looks down on options selling, its better for options sellers because of less competition.

While Cordier's risk management could have been better, his insight into seasonal trades have been pretty good. He's newsletters easy to read and understand. I haven't been able to find anything as good since they went bust.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to waltsg for this post:
 
  #7118 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Linz Austria
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, TWS, Vantage
Broker/Data: DeCarley, IAB, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 1,496 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,850 given, 1,934 received


waltsg View Post
While Cordier's risk management could have been better, his insight into seasonal trades have been pretty good. He's newsletters easy to read and understand. I haven't been able to find anything as good since they went bust.

Have a look at the MRCI site. They offer a weekly newsletter describing entries and exits of seasonal trades. I had subscribed to it many years ago when I started seasonal trading.

They trade outright and future spreads, but of course you can use their ides for option trades.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to myrrdin for this post:
 
  #7119 (permalink)
Singapore
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: multiple
Broker/Data: IB, TOS, Charles Swchwab
Favorite Futures: AUD, JPY, CL, NG, GC, KC, CC, ZW, ZS
 
Posts: 9 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 3 given, 5 received


myrrdin View Post
Have a look at the MRCI site. They offer a weekly newsletter describing entries and exits of seasonal trades. I had subscribed to it many years ago when I started seasonal trading.

They trade outright and future spreads, but of course you can use their ides for option trades.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Hey Myrrdin,

I have visited and used the site for their seasonal charts. I thought about subscribing to their service as well. Like you mentioned, they provide tabled data on entry and exit dates and probability on making money on the trade. However, there doesn't seem to be a study on the current market conditions for this year.

Feeder cattle is such an example. Seasonally, they should rise in the summer months. However, it doesn't look very promising (yet) this year.

Agrimoney does seem to have an in depth study and reports on various commodities. However, I have no idea how much they charge for subscriptions.

Thanks for taking time to reply though

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to waltsg for this post:
 
  #7120 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Linz Austria
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Zaner360, TWS, Vantage
Broker/Data: DeCarley, IAB, RJO
Favorite Futures: Commodities
 
Posts: 1,496 since Nov 2014
Thanks: 1,850 given, 1,934 received



waltsg View Post
Hey Myrrdin,

I have visited and used the site for their seasonal charts. I thought about subscribing to their service as well. Like you mentioned, they provide tabled data on entry and exit dates and probability on making money on the trade. However, there doesn't seem to be a study on the current market conditions for this year.

Feeder cattle is such an example. Seasonally, they should rise in the summer months. However, it doesn't look very promising (yet) this year.

Agrimoney does seem to have an in depth study and reports on various commodities. However, I have no idea how much they charge for subscriptions.

Thanks for taking time to reply though

The service I am reffering to is "Jerry's Weekly Spread Commentary" by MRCI. According to the description of this service they also provide fundamental information. You can get a 14 day free trial. The service sosts 19 $ per month or 135 $ per year.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to myrrdin for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > > Selling Options on Futures?




Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

futures io is celebrating 10-years w/ over $18,000 in prizes!

Right now
 

Thanks for everything -- $250 in Amazon Gift Cards ready to give away

Right now
 

Journal in July -- over $2,500 in prizes w/NinjaTrader

July
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trading Futures with options as protection Gooffy2010 Commodities Futures Trading 17 February 3rd, 2019 11:57 AM
Crude Oil (CL) futures inverse pairing options Big Mike Commodities Futures Trading 8 December 12th, 2013 11:00 AM
Recommend futures, options Broker? sam1197 Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 17 March 27th, 2013 12:42 AM
Selling Njniatrader sam1197 NinjaTrader 22 June 28th, 2012 12:40 PM
Zen-Fire Futures options tici88 Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 1 July 30th, 2011 09:16 AM


Tags
1440, 2 data, accumulation, ai, alerts, algo, algos, amp, analytics, arb, arbitrage, arrays, ats, automated systems, automatically, average, backtested, barchart, best strategy, big market, bloomberg, broker, broker review, brokers, buy, cancelled, cannon trading, cfd, charts, chat, china, cl, cme, cme group, cocoa, code, coding, combine, commodities, comparison, conditional, confluence, connection, continuous contract, copper, cot, courses, crude, data, database, day trading, delete, delta, delta volume, discretionary, distribution, diversification, diversify, dollar cost averaging, dow, downloading, e-micro, economic calendar, el, elite, ema, email, energies, error, es, es open, est, europe, expectancy, feedback, fees, follow along, funded account, funding, futures, gauntlet, gold futures, gold stocks, goldman sachs, grief, guru, hg, high beta, imbalance, indicator, infinity, information, institution, institutional, instrument, joe ross, journal, jp morgan, jpmorgan, key, ladder, last hour, license, lifetime, limit, limit order, limit orders, linda bradford raschke, list, living, lom, london, loss, ma, mac, managed account, margin, market direction, market order, max profit, micro, micros, midpoint, modification, morgan stanley, new york, newbie, news, ninja, nuclear, nymex, ohlc, oil futures, ondemand, one bad trade, open interest, optimization, option trading, options, options on futures, optionsxpress, orders, oscillator, ota, outperforming, pairs, paper, paper trading, papertrading, people, platform, portfolio, precision, price patterns, professional trader, programming, psychology, pyramiding, qcollector, quandl, quant, quantify, quotes, recurring, reno, reopen, repeating, research, reversals, risk control, risk reward, risk to reward, risk-reward, ross_hook, sample, scan, science, search, sell strategy, serial, short, sierra, silver, size, soap, software, sp, split, spx, standing, statistics, stocks, strange, strategy, streaming, strength, support, swing, switch, systems, tastytrade, tax filing, technology, think or swim, thinkorswim, thunder, tick, top, tos, traded, trading, trading career, trading gold, training, trend, trial, type, underlying, velocity, volatility, volume, walk forward, xle, xls, zerohedge

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:44 AM. (this page content is cached, log in for real-time version)

Copyright © 2019 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432 WhatsApp Business, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts