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Selling Options on Futures?
Started:July 19th, 2011 (06:16 PM) by ron99 Views / Replies:568,629 / 5,727
Last Reply:December 2nd, 2016 (12:40 PM) Attachments:642

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Selling Options on Futures?

Old February 4th, 2016, 05:59 PM   #5271 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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ron99 View Post
Welcome Yash.

When I find some time I will give you a detailed answer to your questions.

Here is what would have happened if you sold 1 and bought 2 options that were 30 days closer to expiration than the short on 8/17/15

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They all went on margin call and had large drawdowns.

Here is when longs are same month as short.

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Old February 4th, 2016, 06:13 PM   #5272 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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jokertrader View Post
I was told today by CQG that their platform does not allow to trade exchange traded option spreads.. so the spreads that like the CME provides on calendars, butterfly's etc

So then I thought all the future option spreads we trade are user defined especially with retail platforms like TOS, IB TWS, OEC (Gain) - correct?
Where we put in the 2 options ourselves and create a spread?

Anyone trading the exchange traded option spreads? and what platform? I know i can see them on my xtrader Pro

any comments.. was like a A ha moment for me

@mattz made a post about this subject a few dozen pages back - he didn't mention specific systems but he did say they (Optimus) support RFQ's to "electronically execute multi-leg and hedged options strategies". So maybe ping him, he always seems to be extremely helpful.

As you already know XTrader, which is what I use, supports them.

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Old February 4th, 2016, 06:59 PM   #5273 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Broker/Data: Optimus Futures, LLC
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SMCJB View Post
@mattz made a post about this subject a few dozen pages back - he didn't mention specific systems but he did say they (Optimus) support RFQ's to "electronically execute multi-leg and hedged options strategies". So maybe ping him, he always seems to be extremely helpful.

As you already know XTrader, which is what I use, supports them.

Thank you for the mention @SMCJB
We can use the TT infrastructure, but there are a few more alternatives for RFQs.

One is OAK by ADMIS, which also hooks up to their back end, so all deposits, withdraws, etc should be reflected in real time.

Second is CityTrader by OptionsCity. It is a cloud-based futures and options trading platform that makes it easy for traders to access spreads, request quotes and execute trades. I was in their offices in Chicago for a demonstration, and was really impressed with their drag and drop features for Options spreads. seems to be stable and fast.

Thank you,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
www.optimusfutures.com

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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Old February 4th, 2016, 08:02 PM   #5274 (permalink)
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jokertrader View Post
I was told today by CQG that their platform does not allow to trade exchange traded option spreads.. so the spreads that like the CME provides on calendars, butterfly's etc

So then I thought all the future option spreads we trade are user defined especially with retail platforms like TOS, IB TWS, OEC (Gain) - correct?
Where we put in the 2 options ourselves and create a spread?

Anyone trading the exchange traded option spreads? and what platform? I know i can see them on my xtrader Pro

any comments.. was like a A ha moment for me

I had a terrible time with CQG and trading options. Spent many nights with support. It would just not work, stay away from CQG if you are an options trader. I said screw it and went back to using ToS and IB. They have issues but I can at least send trades

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Old February 4th, 2016, 08:07 PM   #5275 (permalink)
Elite Member
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chubbly2 View Post
I had a terrible time with CQG and trading options. Spent many nights with support. It would just not work, stay away from CQG if you are an options trader. I said screw it and went back to using ToS and IB. They have issues but I can at least send trades

I know CTAs that execute thousands of orders on CQG. Works fine for them.
We have customer on Q Trader and it's fine too.
To each his own.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures and options trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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Old February 4th, 2016, 08:19 PM   #5276 (permalink)
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mattz View Post
I know CTAs that execute thousands of orders on CQG. Works fine for them.
We have customer on Q Trader and it's fine too.
To each his own.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures and options trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

I have an email from the broker I was with that CQG gave me their beta software to use and I was the first person to ever do a UDS order.

This is the email response I got from my broker. This happened 7 months ago. The platform would not allow me to do a Bull Put spread. I had some pretty angry words for them after I found out they had me trading my money on a beta platform with my real money.
.......

CQG gave the following explanation regarding the issue you were having. Please see it below;

“I spoke with one of our product specialists and he explained that XXXX is getting rejected due to a current limitation with CQG UDS functionality. UDS is in the beginning states of its release, technically currently in beta. Currently when executing a Bull Put Spread, CQG is not able to convert it in a way that the CME will accept, which is why he is getting rejected by the exchange. Our development team is working on a solution for this but we don’t have it available now. If XXXXX is willing, I would like to get him in touch with one of our Options product specialists, YYYYYYYY, to help him with a workaround. Could we reach out to him directly?”

Let me know if/how you would like to proceed.

Thanks,

ZZZ


Last edited by chubbly2; February 4th, 2016 at 08:29 PM.
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Old February 4th, 2016, 08:24 PM   #5277 (permalink)
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chubbly2 View Post
I have an email from the broker I was with that CQG gave me their beta software to use and I was the first person to ever do a UDS order.

This is the email response I got from my broker. This happened 7 months ago. The platform would not allow me to do a Bull Put spread. I had some pretty angry words for them that they had me trading my money on a beta platform
.......

CQG gave the following explanation regarding the issue you were having. Please see it below;

I spoke with one of our product specialists and he explained that XXXX is getting rejected due to a current limitation with CQG UDS functionality. UDS is in the beginning states of its release, technically currently in beta. Currently when executing a Bull Put Spread, CQG is not able to convert it in a way that the CME will accept, which is why he is getting rejected by the exchange. Our development team is working on a solution for this but we dont have it available now. If XXXXX is willing, I would like to get him in touch with one of our Options product specialists, YYYYYYYY, to help him with a workaround. Could we reach out to him directly?

Let me know if/how you would like to proceed.

Thanks,

ZZZ

Here is the other email I sent to the broker that had a copy of my discussion with CQG tech support

--------------

I tried again tonight .
I spent 2 hours with CQG support and they keep telling me over and over that I cannot do Bull Put Spreads and only Bull Credit spreads. I was able to do a Bull PUT Spread on 2 other Broker platforms, the exact same order that CQG kept rejecting (TWS and ThinkorSwim) so I have no idea why they kept telling me that the exchange doesn't allow it. I was selecting Bull Put Spread directly from the CQG Options Strategy Analysis Menu and he kept telling me I am not allowed to do a Put Spread. He kept telling me to enter a Call spread. It was like he didn't understand the difference between the a Call spread and a Put spread

Here is the last part of the conversation

207346 (10:56:57 pm):
I want to do PUT not CALL

Customer Support (10:57:01 pm):
send me a screenshot

Customer Support (10:57:18 pm):
but I told you, CME does NOT take Put!!

207346 (10:57:21 pm):
why do you just share my screen?

Customer Support (10:57:56 pm):
you can NOT place a bull put, but only a bull call on CME

207346 (10:58:31 pm):
I give up

Customer Support (10:58:34 pm):
CME exchange does NOT accept that.

207346 (10:58:50 pm):
I can do it on 2 other Broker platforms

207346 (10:58:53 pm):
no issue

Customer Support (10:59:18 pm):
check with the exchange then if you don't believe in it

207346 (10:59:45 pm):
I just submitted BULL PUT spreads on TWS

207346 (10:59:53 pm):
it worked

207346 (11:00:06 pm):
anyway I have given up

At this point I have absolutely given up. All I wanted to do was a simple Bull Put spread. I have been trying for 3 weeks and cannot make a single trade. I am not spending another 2 hours with CQG support again. He kept telling me over and over that I can only do BULL Call spreads.
I really don't know what I can do here other than close my account. I am open to suggestions because I do want to trade with VVVVVV. I had read good reviews online about VVVVVVV so that is why I went with you, but right now I am just incredibly frustrated.

-------------

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Old February 4th, 2016, 08:32 PM   #5278 (permalink)
Elite Member
Boca Raton
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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Thanks: 1,738 given, 2,455 received


chubbly2 View Post
I have an email from the broker I was with that CQG gave me their beta software to use and I was the first person to ever do a UDS order.

This is the email response I got from my broker. This happened 7 months ago. The platform would not allow me to do a Bull Put spread. I had some pretty angry words for them that they had me trading my money on a beta platform
.......

CQG gave the following explanation regarding the issue you were having. Please see it below;

I spoke with one of our product specialists and he explained that XXXX is getting rejected due to a current limitation with CQG UDS functionality. UDS is in the beginning states of its release, technically currently in beta. Currently when executing a Bull Put Spread, CQG is not able to convert it in a way that the CME will accept, which is why he is getting rejected by the exchange. Our development team is working on a solution for this but we dont have it available now. If XXXXX is willing, I would like to get him in touch with one of our Options product specialists, YYYYYYYY, to help him with a workaround. Could we reach out to him directly?

Let me know if/how you would like to proceed.

Thanks,

ZZZ

I truly appreciate the issues you went through. For most of you guys a broker is a broker.
In reality brokers vary in knowledge of software, execution and finding the right fit for a trader.
From my daily discussions with traders and why they are on a certain software should be made to a thread in itself. Most could save or get better execution than what they have....I can say this applies to 50% of the people I talk to.
I do not put people on "Beta" and if someone goes there I explain the limitation.

Again, sorry for your pain in dealing with this.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures and options trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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Old February 4th, 2016, 08:41 PM   #5279 (permalink)
Membership Temporarily Revoked
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mattz View Post
I truly appreciate the issues you went through. For most of you guys a broker is a broker.
In reality brokers vary in knowledge of software, execution and finding the right fit for a trader.
From my daily discussions with traders and why they are on a certain software should be made to a thread in itself. Most could save or get better execution than what they have....I can say this applies to 50% of the people I talk to.
I do not put people on "Beta" and if someone goes there I explain the limitation.

Again, sorry for your pain in dealing with this.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures and options trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Don't be sorry. You are not the broker I was dealing with.
I actually did contact you first last year but you told me you couldn't take Canadian clients


After that event I was furious and I told them I wanted to close my account. I then had problems getting my money back from the broker. They wouldn't refund my full account until I threatened to report them to the NFA. It was just a disaster.

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Old February 4th, 2016, 08:47 PM   #5280 (permalink)
Elite Member
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Thanks: 1,738 given, 2,455 received



chubbly2 View Post
Don't be sorry. You are not the broker I was dealing with.
I actually did contact you first last year but you told me you couldn't take Canadian clients


After that event I was furious and I told them I wanted to close my account. I then had problems getting my money back from the broker. They wouldn't refund my full account until I threatened to report them to the NFA. It was just a disaster.

We do take Canadians now, but not for Options, only futures.
Maybe will find a home in the future for Options guys.

I see you wrote your residence in the USA, and if you have a social I think you can open an account and trade Options as well.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures and options trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

PM with any questions about optimusfutures (800) 771-6748 (561) 367 8686. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF LOSS IN FUTURES TRADING.
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