NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Selling Options on Futures?


Discussion in Options

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one ron99 with 2,221 posts (4,489 thanks)
    2. looks_two SMCJB with 346 posts (733 thanks)
    3. looks_3 kevinkdog with 341 posts (400 thanks)
    4. looks_4 myrrdin with 288 posts (408 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one SMCJB with 2.1 thanks per post
    2. looks_two ron99 with 2 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 myrrdin with 1.4 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 kevinkdog with 1.2 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 1,987,332 views
    2. thumb_up 9,259 thanks given
    3. group 458 followers
    1. forum 7,370 posts
    2. attach_file 794 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Selling Options on Futures?

  #4751 (permalink)
 rsm005 
vancouver BC/Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Zaner360, OX
Broker: DeCaley
Trading: options
Posts: 264 since Jan 2015
Thanks Given: 13
Thanks Received: 205


rsm005 View Post
All,

Opened.

Contract: OESX5 P1700
Quantity: 100
Premium: $4.15
Days to Expiration at Open: 95
Initial Margin: $800
Days Open: 0

Contract: OEWX5 P1650
Quantity: 45
Premium: $2.90
Days to Expiration at Open: 95
Initial Margin: $608
Days Open: 0

I will exit this trade in the first week of Sept. no matter what. I don't want to have any positions on during the fed meetings because of the pending interest rate hike.

Thanks,
/rsm005/

The market has done exactly what I hoped it wouldn't after these positions were opened. It's been a rough start and today doesn't seem like it'll be much easier.

Contract: OESX5 P1700
Quantity: 100
Premium: $4.15
Days to Expiration at Open: 95
Initial Margin: $800
Days Open: 0
Current Margin: $892

Contract: OEWX5 P1650
Quantity: 45
Premium: $2.90
Days to Expiration at Open: 95
Initial Margin: $608
Days Open: 0
Current Margin: $684

Even with the 2 big down days right after the positions were opened the margin increase wasn't too bad. I keep wondering if it would have been a better idea to wait until the Fed minutes were released before opening this position but then this old quote from Yogi Berra popped into my mind.

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."

Hope the updates help.

/rsm005/

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
REcommedations for programming help
Sierra Chart
NT7 Indicator Script Troubleshooting - Camarilla Pivots
NinjaTrader
Trade idea based off three indicators.
Traders Hideout
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
33 thanks
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
28 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
23 thanks
Bigger Wins or Fewer Losses?
23 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
21 thanks
  #4752 (permalink)
 
fminus's Avatar
 fminus 
Washington DC
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT
Broker: Dorman
Trading: US Treasuries
Posts: 126 since Sep 2009
Thanks Given: 156
Thanks Received: 299

I'm in a similar boat. Sold some ESX5 P1650 at average of 4.00 premium.

In trading, shortcuts lead to the longest path possible.
Reply With Quote
  #4753 (permalink)
Chubbly
Ottawa
 
Posts: 87 since May 2015
Thanks Given: 67
Thanks Received: 88


I am actually neutral on ES and also entered on Monday but i am selling an equal number of puts and calls so i am in the green today.

Reply With Quote
  #4754 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785


rsm005 View Post
All,

Opened.

Contract: OESX5 P1700
Quantity: 100
Premium: $4.15
Days to Expiration at Open: 95
Initial Margin: $800
Days Open: 0

Contract: OEWX5 P1650
Quantity: 45
Premium: $2.90
Days to Expiration at Open: 95
Initial Margin: $608
Days Open: 0

I will exit this trade in the first week of Sept. no matter what. I don't want to have any positions on during the fed meetings because of the pending interest rate hike.

Thanks,
/rsm005/

You have "Days to Expiration at Open: 95" for both contracts. That can't be correct unless you have the wrong symbol for the 1650 contracts.

Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #4755 (permalink)
 rsm005 
vancouver BC/Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Zaner360, OX
Broker: DeCaley
Trading: options
Posts: 264 since Jan 2015
Thanks Given: 13
Thanks Received: 205


rsm005 View Post

Contract: OESX5 P1700
Quantity: 100
Premium: $4.15
Days to Expiration at Open: 95
Initial Margin: $800
Days Open: 0
Current Margin: $892
Current Margin: $1190 - Evening of 8/20

Contract: OESX5 P1650
Quantity: 45
Premium: $2.90
Days to Expiration at Open: 95
Initial Margin: $608
Days Open: 0
Current Margin: $684
Current Margin: $928 - Evening of 8/20

/rsm005/

Ron,

You're right, there's a typo there. The 1650 position is the same contract as the 1700, I changed the quote.

As far as an update..it's been a brutal, brutal day and after hours seems to be carrying the trend down to 2009. Not sure how much further this will go but the margin on my current position is given above. I have to say I'm more than a little nervous with all the news seeming to encourage the downward movement. Not sure where the bottom of this is...I'm hoping it stays above 2000 but who knows. Of course this had to happen 3 days into the new position.

/rsm005/

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #4756 (permalink)
 
CobblersAwls's Avatar
 CobblersAwls 
London, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: N/A
Broker: Bloomberg
Trading: Energies
Posts: 310 since Jul 2014
Thanks Given: 1,089
Thanks Received: 386


rsm005 View Post
Ron,

You're right, there's a typo there. The 1650 position is the same contract as the 1700, I changed the quote.

As far as an update..it's been a brutal, brutal day and after hours seems to be carrying the trend down to 2009. Not sure how much further this will go but the margin on my current position is given above. I have to say I'm more than a little nervous with all the news seeming to encourage the downward movement. Not sure where the bottom of this is...I'm hoping it stays above 2000 but who knows. Of course this had to happen 3 days into the new position.

/rsm005/

Extremely unfortunate, but I suppose if you need a silver lining, if you stick to the probabilities game - which options is technically all about - then at least you should have an increased positive expectancy in the near future.

I would also say that this move has been a little exaggerated. If we are to believe that it is due to the Fed Sept rate hike, then delaying it should be positive for equities + bad for the USD, whilst remaining on track for a Sept rate hike should be bad for equities and good for the USD. The fact both are lower with bonds/metals higher gives the indication of fear. Moves like these usually end following capitulation.

Then again I'm no psychic and markets can remain irrational when fear/greed is high, especially as overnight moves seem to have been worsened due to fears concerning China's growth.

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #4757 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785

On 7/31/15 I sold ESx5p1650 and also ESx5p1500-1700 spreads. Let's see how they have gone so far.

ESx5p1650
IM on 7/31/15 = 696
IM on 8/21/15 = 928 +33%

ESx5p1500-1700
IM on 7/31/15 = 548
IM on 8/21/15 = 762 +39%

ESx5p1650
Price on 7/31/15 = 3.90
Price on 8/21/15 = 6.70 -$140

ESx5p1500-1700
Price on 7/31/15 = 3.70
Price on 8/21/15 = 7.00 -$165

ESx5p1650
IMx3 on 7/31/15 = $2088
Current IM + Loss on Premium on 8/21/15 = $1068 = 51% of beginning IMx3
Remaining cash excess = $1020

ESx5p1500-1700
IMx3 on 7/31/15 = $1644
Current IM + Loss on Premium on 8/21/15 = $927 = 56% of beginning IMx3
Remaining cash excess = $717

So for a ES drop of 73 the spreads have performed worse. But of course if there were to be a huge crash the spread would do better.

Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #4758 (permalink)
uuu1965
Riga Latvia
 
Posts: 107 since Jan 2013
Thanks Given: 441
Thanks Received: 72


ron99 View Post
On 7/31/15 I sold ESx5p1650 and also ESx5p1500-1700 spreads. Let's see how they have gone so far.

ESx5p1650
IM on 7/31/15 = 696
IM on 8/21/15 = 928 +33%

ESx5p1500-1700
IM on 7/31/15 = 548
IM on 8/21/15 = 762 +39%

ESx5p1650
Price on 7/31/15 = 3.90
Price on 8/21/15 = 6.70 -$140

ESx5p1500-1700
Price on 7/31/15 = 3.70
Price on 8/21/15 = 7.00 -$165

ESx5p1650
IMx3 on 7/31/15 = $2088
Current IM + Loss on Premium on 8/21/15 = $1068 = 51% of beginning IMx3
Remaining cash excess = $1020

ESx5p1500-1700
IMx3 on 7/31/15 = $1644
Current IM + Loss on Premium on 8/21/15 = $927 = 56% of beginning IMx3
Remaining cash excess = $717

So for a ES drop of 73 the spreads have performed worse. But of course if there were to be a huge crash the spread would do better.

If I have the proper calculation max drawdown is:
for ESx5p1650 =6,7%
for ESx5p1500-1700 = 10.04%

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #4759 (permalink)
hain241
Boise, ID
 
Posts: 10 since Feb 2015
Thanks Given: 7
Thanks Received: 7

Looks like we're at a near term capitulation point. The VIX term structure has inverted to a level not seen since last October 2014. Hope you guys will all go through this with contained damages. Like I said over and over, August, September, and October are the three worst months to sell naked ES. Market will bounce in coming days and will probably be setting up for a big decline in September/October. We will have another chance to get out before things blow up.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #4760 (permalink)
 rsm005 
vancouver BC/Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Zaner360, OX
Broker: DeCaley
Trading: options
Posts: 264 since Jan 2015
Thanks Given: 13
Thanks Received: 205


Well there's always the weekend....

/rsm005/

Reply With Quote




Last Updated on July 28, 2023


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts