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Selling Options on Futures?
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Created: by ron99 Attachments:729

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Selling Options on Futures?

  #4011 (permalink)
Elite Member
vancouver BC/Canada
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Zaner360, OX
Broker/Data: DeCaley
Favorite Futures: options
 
Posts: 234 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 13 given, 186 received

Ron,

Yes, I was doing a broker assisted trade with DeCarley. Should have worded that a bit differently.

/rsm005/

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  #4012 (permalink)
World'sWorstTrader
Knoxville Tennessee USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, CL, /6E futures options.
 
Posts: 261 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 126 given, 75 received

CL


rsm005 View Post
So it appears my idea of a coffee strangle is just not going to work. There's just not enough volume far enough out to make the risk tolerable. Also given the slightly higher fees on ICE is not really going to make enough money to make the trade worth it, at least not right now.

I did end up selling the strangle with oil
3 CL P25 April 16th for .04 Margin $525
3 CL C80 April 16th for .05 Margin $355

Watching coffee and S&P e-mini until the current trend shakes itself out before I step in and make a trade on the put side.

/rsm005/

You probably will do better with this one than your last one.

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  #4013 (permalink)
Elite Member
vancouver BC/Canada
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Zaner360, OX
Broker/Data: DeCaley
Favorite Futures: options
 
Posts: 234 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 13 given, 186 received


Thanks, I'm certainly hoping so.

I've been looking at a few other options over the past week or so, specifically gold around the 900 mark. The general idea is to wait and see how the latest downtrends play out and see what the prices look like.

/rsm005/

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  #4014 (permalink)
Elite Member
Singapore
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader meta trader
Favorite Futures: oil
 
Posts: 13 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 55 given, 2 received


ron99 View Post

I had sold options in CC, CL, CT, DA, ES, GC, HO, KC, LC, NG, RB, & S.

This year I am selling ES puts for about 2.00 that are 80-100 DTE. Taking profit when they are at 0.50-0.80.

1. I tried to check out options prices, volume option interest and spreads on TOS for CC, CT, HO, KC, RB and S(SI) going for about 45 to 80 days and found that there were virtually no volume at 2 delta areas. Spread were also very wide.
(TOS does not have symbols for DA and LC)

Are you able to share with us how you traded these symbols for 2014

2. Only tradable symbols were ES (the best volume and spreads) CL, NG and GC, IMHO. NG is too wild for a timid trader like me, also the premium seems to surge a lot with movement of NG prices.

3. I think "selling ES puts for about 2.00 that are 80-100 DTE. Taking profit when they are at 0.50-0.80." is a good strategy as the margins and deltas are small compared to selling say 30 to 60 days away. Most importantly the gamma is so much smaller - allow me to have a good sleep. Thanks for sharing that idea

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  #4015 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland, OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,653 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 770 given, 4,594 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


tbs8877 View Post
1. I tried to check out options prices, volume option interest and spreads on TOS for CC, CT, HO, KC, RB and S(SI) going for about 45 to 80 days and found that there were virtually no volume at 2 delta areas. Spread were also very wide.
(TOS does not have symbols for DA and LC)

Are you able to share with us how you traded these symbols for 2014

2. Only tradable symbols were ES (the best volume and spreads) CL, NG and GC, IMHO. NG is too wild for a timid trader like me, also the premium seems to surge a lot with movement of NG prices.

3. I think "selling ES puts for about 2.00 that are 80-100 DTE. Taking profit when they are at 0.50-0.80." is a good strategy as the margins and deltas are small compared to selling say 30 to 60 days away. Most importantly the gamma is so much smaller - allow me to have a good sleep. Thanks for sharing that idea

Yes there is low volume & OI for most of those commodities. I just pick off bids that occasionally show up on those.

But there is decent vol on KC. I usually don't have any problems getting them on. Especially calls.

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  #4016 (permalink)
Elite Member
rutherford NJ
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Qtrader
Broker/Data: Amp and Optimus and CQG
Favorite Futures: Mainly NG Some GC, ZS,CL
 
Posts: 380 since May 2013
Thanks: 299 given, 137 received

KC wheat

Ron,
Dont know anything abt KC Wheat
Does it have good volatility/premium?
I dont see much volume

What would ure position be in July? What premiums are typical at 0.02 delta
Also is this a staple for u?? i noticed ure 2 big positions tend to Cl and KC

thanks
J

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  #4017 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland, OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,653 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 770 given, 4,594 received
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jokertrader View Post
Ron,
Dont know anything abt KC Wheat
Does it have good volatility/premium?
I dont see much volume

What would ure position be in July? What premiums are typical at 0.02 delta
Also is this a staple for u?? i noticed ure 2 big positions tend to Cl and KC

thanks
J

KC is coffee.

My big position is ES puts.

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The following user says Thank You to ron99 for this post:
 
  #4018 (permalink)
Elite Member
rutherford NJ
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Qtrader
Broker/Data: Amp and Optimus and CQG
Favorite Futures: Mainly NG Some GC, ZS,CL
 
Posts: 380 since May 2013
Thanks: 299 given, 137 received

Strategy on ES puts

Thanks Ron

Can u give me your strategy for ES puts..
a) is there a minimum premium you would like to collect
b) a minumum duration that has to be there
c) Do u ever roll the puts or get out based on ure premium increase+loss exit strategy
d) Do u also do calls if market starts to correct in the past

I have tried this on SPY Iron condors and have not found it worth my time -too much commissions and too much adjustment required as for the premium to be decent.. i have to be at much greater than 0.02 delta.. has to be more like 20 delta

thanks
i really want to learn 1 thing that is consistent and safe for the rest of my life. I would be glad to email you or talk
J

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  #4019 (permalink)
Elite Member
rutherford NJ
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Qtrader
Broker/Data: Amp and Optimus and CQG
Favorite Futures: Mainly NG Some GC, ZS,CL
 
Posts: 380 since May 2013
Thanks: 299 given, 137 received

top 3 options to start selling

sorry if this was discussed,
I want to start off.. and really like this thread
but would like some advice on the top 3 products to research and some blueprint

min duration for each product
min premium with a very safe delta
exit strategy for losses - are they all the same as Ron initially described

much thanks to anyone who is willing to guide me
thanks
J

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  #4020 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland, OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,653 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 770 given, 4,594 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary



jokertrader View Post
Thanks Ron

Can u give me your strategy for ES puts..
a) is there a minimum premium you would like to collect
b) a minumum duration that has to be there
c) Do u ever roll the puts or get out based on ure premium increase+loss exit strategy
d) Do u also do calls if market starts to correct in the past

I have tried this on SPY Iron condors and have not found it worth my time -too much commissions and too much adjustment required as for the premium to be decent.. i have to be at much greater than 0.02 delta.. has to be more like 20 delta

thanks
i really want to learn 1 thing that is consistent and safe for the rest of my life. I would be glad to email you or talk
J

I have answered these questions previously in the thread. Answers to a & b are in a post 4 before yours. I suggest you read the thread because you need more research. You are clearly not ready to trade options on futures. I do not have time to hand hold beginners who haven't done proper research.

And what the hell is ure? Learn English and spelling and use it.

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