Selling Options on Futures? (Page 356) - Options on Futures | futures.io
futures.io futures trading
 

Go Back   futures.io

> Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Traders Hideout > Options on Futures


Selling Options on Futures?
Started:July 19th, 2011 (06:16 PM) by ron99 Views / Replies:568,720 / 5,727
Last Reply:December 2nd, 2016 (12:40 PM) Attachments:642

Welcome to futures.io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike
     

Reply
 642  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread

Selling Options on Futures?

Old August 25th, 2014, 11:33 AM   #3551 (permalink)
World'sWorstTrader
Knoxville Tennessee USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, CL, /6E futures options.
 
Posts: 257 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 126 given, 75 received


daydayup8 View Post
That does help, thank you. Do they allow to selling ES option in an IRA acct? what about their margin? can you check the margin for selling ES 1850 PUT with expiration SEP 12?

Sorry I am late in responding. I have been busy. I don't think TOS allows naked puts in an IRA.

The ESZ4/EW4U4 1850 put (this morning 08/25/14) sells for $132.50 (one contract) with an expiration date
of 09/27/14, a delta of 0.064, and an IM = $2614 (one contract).

But for me this is too close to ES=1998. Too much risk. Also the ratio of (IM)/(premium sold) = 19.7
is too high.

Reply With Quote
     

Old August 25th, 2014, 12:00 PM   #3552 (permalink)
Elite Member
tennessee/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Quotetracker, TOS
Broker/Data: OX TOS
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 83 since Aug 2014
Thanks: 267 given, 8 received

Thank you, I checked IB, the IM=6782, MM=5426, I will transfer my money out for sure after reading about 60 pages of this thread so far:-)

Interesting quick way to measure the position, 132.5/2614=19.7 is too high, then what is the general number you use, do you mind to share? thanks!

Forgive me if this topic has been covered, maybe I should not ask so many questions before I finish this thread, just so much good information and so many great minds here:-)

PS: after reading a few more pages here, I feel like this number is around 16.


datahogg View Post
Sorry I am late in responding. I have been busy. I don't think TOS allows naked puts in an IRA.

The ESZ4/EW4U4 1850 put (this morning 08/25/14) sells for $132.50 (one contract) with an expiration date
of 09/27/14, a delta of 0.064, and an IM = $2614 (one contract).

But for me this is too close to ES=1998. Too much risk. Also the ratio of (IM)/(premium sold) = 19.7
is too high.



Last edited by daydayup8; August 25th, 2014 at 02:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
     

Old August 25th, 2014, 04:01 PM   #3553 (permalink)
World'sWorstTrader
Knoxville Tennessee USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, CL, /6E futures options.
 
Posts: 257 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 126 given, 75 received



daydayup8 View Post
Thank you, I checked IB, the IM=6782, MM=5426, I will transfer my money out for sure after reading about 60 pages of this thread so far:-)

Interesting quick way to measure the position, 132.5/2614=19.7 is too high, then what is the general number you use, do you mind to share? thanks!

Forgive me if this topic has been covered, maybe I should not ask so many questions before I finish this thread, just so much good information and so many great minds here:-)

PS: after reading a few more pages here, I feel like this number is around 16.

I may be mistaken, but I think Ron99 indicates the ratio of (IM)/(premium sold) < = 6 . Generally smaller is better.

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to datahogg for this post:
     

Old August 25th, 2014, 04:17 PM   #3554 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,903 received


datahogg View Post
I may be mistaken, but I think Ron99 indicates the ratio of (IM)/(premium sold) < = 6 . Generally smaller is better.

I have never done the ratio calculation. I look at delta and monthly ROI.

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to ron99 for this post:
     

Old August 26th, 2014, 11:05 AM   #3555 (permalink)
Elite Member
tennessee/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Quotetracker, TOS
Broker/Data: OX TOS
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 83 since Aug 2014
Thanks: 267 given, 8 received

Futures Edge on FIO

Are you a NinjaTrader user?

 
Ron,

By reading so far on the 100+ page (I am still on 100+ pages now), I always see you have a quick ROI monthly on you positions, do you use some tools to calculate that for you? forgive me if this has been answered. Thanks.

PS: you answered in next post, it seems that you calculate it by yourself.




ron99 View Post
Based on that credit I'm assuming you are doing 10 contracts.

Delta .0230. ROI based on my fees is 2.0% per month.

They're OK. ES may drop but I doubt it will drop enough in 32 days to force you out.

I sold 1250s on Friday.


Reply With Quote
     

Old August 26th, 2014, 12:21 PM   #3556 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
St Paul, MN, USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Abacus
Broker/Data: RJO, Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: Commodity Futures & Options
 
Posts: 189 since Jan 2014
Thanks: 108 given, 171 received


daydayup8 View Post
Ron,

By reading so far on the 100+ page (I am still on 100+ pages now), I always see you have a quick ROI monthly on you positions, do you use some tools to calculate that for you? forgive me if this has been answered. Thanks.

PS: you answered in next post, it seems that you calculate it by yourself.

Forgive my rudeness for jumping in here, but maybe it will save you some time.

https://futures.io/options-cfd-trading/29125-pc-span.html

Go to 'summary' - I think it's the 2nd post in the thread and scroll down until you see a link by forum member "DudeTooth" that says PC-SPAN.xls, last updated 12 Aug 2014.

That tool will calculate ROI (and margin and other things) on existing or potential positions with updates at the end of every market day. It's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to CafeGrande for this post:
     

Old August 26th, 2014, 12:26 PM   #3557 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,903 received


daydayup8 View Post
Ron,

By reading so far on the 100+ page (I am still on 100+ pages now), I always see you have a quick ROI monthly on you positions, do you use some tools to calculate that for you? forgive me if this has been answered. Thanks.

PS: you answered in next post, it seems that you calculate it by yourself.

The formula is in the Quick Summary on page one of this thread.

Reply With Quote
     
The following 2 users say Thank You to ron99 for this post:
     

Old August 26th, 2014, 12:36 PM   #3558 (permalink)
Elite Member
tennessee/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Quotetracker, TOS
Broker/Data: OX TOS
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 83 since Aug 2014
Thanks: 267 given, 8 received

Such a great thread with such great people in such a great forum, can't help saying that!
Cheers~

Reply With Quote
     

Old August 26th, 2014, 12:42 PM   #3559 (permalink)
Elite Member
Amsterdam
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: 6B GU 6E EU
 
jtrade's Avatar
 
Posts: 221 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 273 given, 174 received


ron99 View Post
I do find myself trading put options in CL that are $20-25 away from futures and $25-30 away on calls and ignoring delta for CL. Trading closer than that is just too risky for me.

Ron - why do you ignore delta for CL ?

Another q, pls : if an option that was around 0.03 delta when you sold it uses up all your 3x margin excess, roughly what will its delta typically have become at that stage ? 'Trying to understand how many futures contracts would protect the position, although I realise this is dynamic.

Reply With Quote
     

Old August 26th, 2014, 06:45 PM   #3560 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,903 received



jtrade View Post
Ron - why do you ignore delta for CL ?

Another q, pls : if an option that was around 0.03 delta when you sold it uses up all your 3x margin excess, roughly what will its delta typically have become at that stage ? 'Trying to understand how many futures contracts would protect the position, although I realise this is dynamic.

I ignore delta for CL because it is not unusual to have CL make a $10 move. If I am closer than $20 then I will get in trouble if that happens. The deltas for CL just seem too low to me.

I don't know the answer to the 2nd question. You're right there are a lot variables to determine that answer.

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to ron99 for this post:
     

Reply



futures.io > Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Traders Hideout > Options on Futures > Selling Options on Futures?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

NinjaTrader 8: Features and Enhancements, Tips and Tricks

Dec 6
 

Al Brooks: Stop Losing when a Good Trade goes Bad, Correcting Mistakes

Elite only
 

Trading Technologies: Algo Design Lab hands-on

Dec 13
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crude Oil (CL) futures inverse pairing options Big Mike Commodities Futures Trading 8 December 12th, 2013 12:00 PM
Recommend futures, options Broker? sam1197 Brokers and Data Feeds 17 March 27th, 2013 01:42 AM
Trading Futures with options as protection Gooffy2010 Commodities Futures Trading 6 October 2nd, 2012 05:55 PM
Selling Njniatrader sam1197 NinjaTrader 22 June 28th, 2012 01:40 PM
Zen-Fire Futures options tici88 Brokers and Data Feeds 1 July 30th, 2011 10:16 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:49 PM.

Copyright © 2016 by futures.io. All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
 
no new posts

Page generated 2016-12-06 in 0.24 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.205.49.6