NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Selling Options on Futures?


Discussion in Options

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one ron99 with 2,221 posts (4,489 thanks)
    2. looks_two SMCJB with 346 posts (733 thanks)
    3. looks_3 kevinkdog with 341 posts (400 thanks)
    4. looks_4 myrrdin with 288 posts (408 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one SMCJB with 2.1 thanks per post
    2. looks_two ron99 with 2 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 myrrdin with 1.4 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 kevinkdog with 1.2 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 1,934,752 views
    2. thumb_up 9,259 thanks given
    3. group 458 followers
    1. forum 7,370 posts
    2. attach_file 794 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Selling Options on Futures?

  #211 (permalink)
 
Mobiius's Avatar
 Mobiius 
Victoria, BC, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation, Multicharts, Interactive Brokers, OptionsXpress
Trading: Futures
Posts: 27 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 4
Thanks Received: 25


opts View Post
Mobius:

OX is the only account I have. I don't plan on trading futures contracts, I only trade the options so I can't comment on the contracts. However, there have been no issues trading the options.

One thing I should mention is that their smart phone trading ap does not have the ability to receive futures quotes. So if you plan on trading through your phone you must do that through the web access ability of your phone, which is a little quirky also. If you have an option position you can see the current quote in your watch-list and you can close the position in the trading ap. They are working on the quotes part of the ap. They do have an ipad ap as well.

My FOREX trading is done through FXDD and Metatrader.

Hey Opt, if you need a remote access then try the 'log me in' program (about $12USD/month), this is loaded on to your computer you need to remotely access, then you get the 'logmein Ignition' app on your phone and you can access your computer so you can get the full power of your trading software. The only drawback obviously is the small screen size, but it's never been an issue for me. I've never been fond of proprietary broker software and go through a secondary login system. I'd rather use our own full size version on a small screen and I have access to all our software and brokers.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Mobiius for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Request for MACD with option to use different MAs for fa …
NinjaTrader
NexusFi Journal Challenge - April 2024
Feedback and Announcements
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
My NT8 Volume Profile Split by Asian/Euro/Open
NinjaTrader
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Retail Trading As An Industry
58 thanks
Battlestations: Show us your trading desks!
48 thanks
NexusFi site changelog and issues/problem reporting
47 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
32 thanks
What percentage per day is possible? [Poll]
31 thanks

  #212 (permalink)
 britkid99 
Derby UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: Futures Options, CL
Posts: 175 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 105
Thanks Received: 134


Harvard16 View Post
Hi Brit,

I'd like to ask you something regarding IB margin on short futures options, you mentioned above they charge full futures margin, are you saying they don't use Span margin?reason I ask is I'm looking to move an account from Optionsxpress to IB, as a net option seller the commissions are ouch particularly for trade adjustment, when done on ratio writes, it gets very expensive. I have my main account with deep discount, and I'm very happy there with their 50c commish plus exch. fees and service, but following pfgbest and mfg, don't want to put all in one basket.

Obviously span margin is key, so need to make sure on that.

Thanks

Harvard16

I don't think it is Span based but not sure as I have nothing else to compare it to.
Please check the IB web page for their futures margins here........

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=margin&ib_entity=uk

Obviously this is futures and the options are based on that and will vary with time to expiry, strike distance away etc but will not be higher than the futures margin.

If you want a specific example let me know and I can tell you what it is.

Edit: I forgot to add, as it is a UK pension account they charge me 150% margin.

Hope this helps
Brit

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to britkid99 for this post:
  #213 (permalink)
Harvard16
Singapore
 
Posts: 43 since Sep 2012
Thanks Given: 57
Thanks Received: 70


Thanks Brit, that is helpful, I have been digging further and can see IB is definately SPAN+++, no good for me, I'll can that one.

Reply With Quote
  #214 (permalink)
 
Mobiius's Avatar
 Mobiius 
Victoria, BC, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation, Multicharts, Interactive Brokers, OptionsXpress
Trading: Futures
Posts: 27 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 4
Thanks Received: 25

Ron - I believe you have answered some of these questions so I apologize for you repeating them.

I can't seem to find the details of the commissions you pay on OX. I seem to remember you mentioning you pay only $2.99 per contract but maybe my memory is faulty? OX's commissions start @ $12.99 and only go to $5.99 if you do 1000+ a month. I'd be doing only up to 30 on the average a month and possibly up to 100 in the future. But nowhere near 1000+.

We'd like to get our commissions as low as possible with OX. Any suggestions?

Also, does OX charge the full commission on opening and then full again if you closed? Or do they only charge you half commission and they don't charge you the other half if you let it expire?

Thanks.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Mobiius for this post:
  #215 (permalink)
Harvard16
Singapore
 
Posts: 43 since Sep 2012
Thanks Given: 57
Thanks Received: 70

Hi Mobiius,

I know you directed this to Ron , but he is probably enjoying his labour day holiday today, as a long time OX client I can confirm for the volume you mentioned the perside rate is $12.99 + the typical exchange fees. Feel since Charles Schwab there is less flexibility in their rates, but as they say if you don't ask you don't get, if you have a sizable account this may have some sway.

Commissions are charged per side individually at time of sale and purchase, and there is no commission or fees if you let the short option expire out of the money. (with the rates they charge it would be cheaky if they did).

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Harvard16 for this post:
  #216 (permalink)
 fasttraxs 
Danville, California
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: ES Currency furtures
Posts: 69 since Sep 2010
Thanks Given: 611
Thanks Received: 20


ron99 View Post
I have been selling options on futures for years. But it is rare to find others doing it. I was wondering if there are others here doing it.

I have been doing it for 5 years. Learned it from James Cordier's book.

I have sold energy, grain, softs and metal options. Far out of the money. Usually less than 90 days from expiration.

I've always been interested, but never pursued it.
Has anyone heard or has experince with
Larry gaines options on open ?

https://www.optionsontheopen.com/

Reply With Quote
  #217 (permalink)
 
AMGM's Avatar
 AMGM 
Mexico city
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Charts
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen Fire
Trading: EUR/USD, Gold
Posts: 4 since Apr 2011
Thanks Given: 1
Thanks Received: 1

Not as bad as MF Global or PFG, but I'm starting to worry about the integrity of most brokers. I think more cases like these will materialize in the future, as the SEC is now taking a closer look.

SEC Charges optionsXpress and Five Individuals Involved in Abusive Naked Short Selling Scheme
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
2012-66

Washington, D.C., April 16, 2012 – The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged an online brokerage and clearing agency specializing in options and futures as well as four officials at the firm and a customer involved in an abusive naked short selling scheme.

The SEC’s Division of Enforcement alleges that Chicago-based optionsXpress failed to satisfy its close-out obligations under Regulation SHO by repeatedly engaging in a series of sham “reset” transactions designed to give the illusion that the firm had purchased securities of like kind and quantity. The firm and customer Jonathan I. Feldman engaged in these sham reset transactions in a number of securities, resulting in continuous failures to deliver. Regulation SHO requires the delivery of equity securities to a registered clearing agency when delivery is due, generally three days after the trade date (T+3). If no delivery is made by that time, the firm must purchase or borrow the securities to close out the failure-to-deliver position by no later than the beginning of regular trading hours on the next day (T+4).

The former chief financial officer at optionsXpress – Thomas E. Stern of Chicago – was named in the SEC’s administrative proceeding along with optionsXpress and Feldman. Three other optionsXpress officials – head of trading and customer service Peter J. Bottini and compliance officers Phillip J. Hoeh and Kevin E. Strine – were named in a separate administrative proceeding and settled the charges against them for their roles in the scheme.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to AMGM for this post:
  #218 (permalink)
 
Mobiius's Avatar
 Mobiius 
Victoria, BC, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation, Multicharts, Interactive Brokers, OptionsXpress
Trading: Futures
Posts: 27 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 4
Thanks Received: 25


AMGM View Post
Not as bad as MF Global or PFG, but I'm starting to worry about the integrity of most brokers. I think more cases like these will materialize in the future, as the SEC is now taking a closer look.

SEC Charges optionsXpress and Five Individuals Involved in Abusive Naked Short Selling Scheme
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
2012-66

Washington, D.C., April 16, 2012 – The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged an online brokerage and clearing agency specializing in options and futures as well as four officials at the firm and a customer involved in an abusive naked short selling scheme.

The SEC’s Division of Enforcement alleges that Chicago-based optionsXpress failed to satisfy its close-out obligations under Regulation SHO by repeatedly engaging in a series of sham “reset” transactions designed to give the illusion that the firm had purchased securities of like kind and quantity. The firm and customer Jonathan I. Feldman engaged in these sham reset transactions in a number of securities, resulting in continuous failures to deliver. Regulation SHO requires the delivery of equity securities to a registered clearing agency when delivery is due, generally three days after the trade date (T+3). If no delivery is made by that time, the firm must purchase or borrow the securities to close out the failure-to-deliver position by no later than the beginning of regular trading hours on the next day (T+4).

The former chief financial officer at optionsXpress – Thomas E. Stern of Chicago – was named in the SEC’s administrative proceeding along with optionsXpress and Feldman. Three other optionsXpress officials – head of trading and customer service Peter J. Bottini and compliance officers Phillip J. Hoeh and Kevin E. Strine – were named in a separate administrative proceeding and settled the charges against them for their roles in the scheme.

Ouch, egg in the face when Charles Schwab bought them out the month before... Did OX see this coming and were more eager to sell?

Reply With Quote
  #219 (permalink)
 
Mobiius's Avatar
 Mobiius 
Victoria, BC, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation, Multicharts, Interactive Brokers, OptionsXpress
Trading: Futures
Posts: 27 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 4
Thanks Received: 25


ron99 View Post
Because of my years of trading at certain firms and the volume of trading that I do, my commissions are $2.99 or less plus exchange fees.

At OptionsXpress they charge $12.99 per side for futures options even if you only do 1 trade per month.
Get the Best Online Trading Value with optionsXpress

If you let an option expire OTM, most places do not charge you any fees at expiration.

Hi Ron,

I managed to dig this out of this discussion in regards to the commissions at OX.
How do you go about working OX to recieve 2.99 / contract (or even close to it) when you do 4000 a year (not 1000+ a month)? Obviously you have superior 'past experience with other brokers' clout, but is there anything else?

I've got to try every angle I can. I may be spoiled because we only pay $2-$3 (with fees) even though we are minor players in the futures market. I just have a hard time swallowing $12.99 per contract (4-5 times our futures costs). Well... that and I'm scottish.

Even $5.99 would be better.

Cheers.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Mobiius for this post:
  #220 (permalink)
 britkid99 
Derby UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: Futures Options, CL
Posts: 175 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 105
Thanks Received: 134



ron99 View Post
I am trying to find a real time data provider that can do accurate charts and/or data tables on options on futures.

I was at DTN ProphetX. A lot of incorrect data.

I am now at eSignal. Was OK, then at the start of this month they made changes to their software and the data is incorrect and they haven't been able to fix it yet.

I know not many here trade options on futures, but can you check if your data provider has charts on options on futures?

For example ES Dec 800 puts.

Hi Ron,

Some time ago you were asking the above question about charts for options on futures.
Did you come to a satisfactory conclusion ie optionxpress etc?

I have attached a daily chart and Friday's Intraday chart of CL 80 put from Interactive Brokers. Is this what you were after?

Brit

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CL 80 put.JPG
Views:	298
Size:	113.1 KB
ID:	88293   Click image for larger version

Name:	CL 80 put intrra.JPG
Views:	306
Size:	106.8 KB
ID:	88294  
Reply With Quote





Last Updated on July 28, 2023


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts