Selling Options on Futures? (Page 215) - Options on Futures | futures.io
futures.io futures trading
 

Go Back   futures.io

> Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Traders Hideout > Options on Futures


Selling Options on Futures?
Started:July 19th, 2011 (06:16 PM) by ron99 Views / Replies:567,971 / 5,727
Last Reply:22 Hours Ago (12:40 PM) Attachments:642

Welcome to futures.io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike
     

Reply
 642  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread

Selling Options on Futures?

Old October 1st, 2013, 04:37 PM   #2141 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,902 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


Stan Dan View Post
Ups, very expensive for Self Directed Online - Standard and Self Directed Online - Pro.

Brokerage Commission Schedule

Any other ideas?

Those are round turn prices. The OX $3.50 is for a half turn. So $7.00 for a round turn.

Plus margins there are SPAN minimum. They aren't at OX for all commodities.

Lower margin is more important than a few dollars more in commissions when selling options. ROI will be higher with SPAN minimum margin and a few dollars more commissions.

For example, CLZ3 80p margin at OX is 258.72. SPAN is 215.60. With 2x cash excess OX margin & excess is 517. SPAN is 431.

ROI% at OX is 4.6% per month. If costs are the same, ROI% at a place with SPAN minimum margin ROI% is 5.5% per month. Almost 1% higher ROI% per month because of lower margin requirements. Who wouldn't want almost 12% higher ROI% per year just because of where you trade.

For 5 contracts at OX it takes $2585 margin and excess. For SPAN it takes $2155. For 6 it takes $2586. Same as 5 at OX.

So anything less than 12.66 in commissions would make you more money with SPAN margins instead of OX's 20% higher margins for CL.


Last edited by ron99; October 1st, 2013 at 05:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
The following 4 users say Thank You to ron99 for this post:
     

Old October 1st, 2013, 04:50 PM   #2142 (permalink)
Banned: Rude behavior, doesn't want to be here
Zug / Switzerland
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Different
Favorite Futures: Option and Futures
 
Stan Dan's Avatar
 
Posts: 67 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 64 given, 35 received


ron99 View Post
Those are round turn prices. The OX $3.50 is for a half turn. So $7.00 for a round turn.

@ron99

I just had a look at OX. If there service and data are fine, never mind about the 7 Dollars. Quality has its price. I was thinking more of really discount brokers which offer options and futures. Any other idea on that?

Stan Dan

Reply With Quote
     

Old October 1st, 2013, 05:09 PM   #2143 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,902 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary



Stan Dan View Post
@ron99

I just had a look at OX. If there service and data are fine, never mind about the 7 Dollars. Quality has its price. I was thinking more of really discount brokers which offer options and futures. Any other idea on that?

Stan Dan

I added more to my post above yours.

IB is cheapest but their margins are really sky high.

Open E Cry might be cheaper, depends on deal you make with them, but their quality is lower. They do charge overnight fee. Twenty cents per contract per night. They will drop it but then you have to pay them higher commission.
Futures Trading Platform, Futures Trading Demo, Electronic Trading System - OEC

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to ron99 for this post:
     

Old October 2nd, 2013, 01:30 AM   #2144 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OX, Z360, Excel
Broker/Data: DeCarley
Favorite Futures: Futures and Future Options
 
Posts: 121 since Aug 2013
Thanks: 75 given, 96 received

Seasonal Chart Value


kevinkdog View Post
Here are some seasonal charts on December Lean Hogs:

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Kevin, I have been looking long and hard at this chart. It seems that the chart converts price data into and oscillator (like RSI) and that it is bound between 0 and 100.

Could you let me know if you know this to be the case.

Thanks BlueRoo

Reply With Quote
     

Old October 2nd, 2013, 06:35 AM   #2145 (permalink)
Elite Member
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker/Data: various
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 2,194 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,004 given, 3,965 received

Futures Edge on FIO

BlueRoo View Post
Kevin, I have been looking long and hard at this chart. It seems that the chart converts price data into and oscillator (like RSI) and that it is bound between 0 and 100.

Could you let me know if you know this to be the case.

Thanks BlueRoo

Yes, that is what I see too. I don't know the specifics, but it probably scales everything, so that the min is 0, and max is 100. This lets you more easily compare years where price is radically different.

If you have any questions please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
     

Old October 2nd, 2013, 09:11 AM   #2146 (permalink)
Elite Member
Georgia, US
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Various
Favorite Futures: Various
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,898 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 5,143 given, 11,194 received


kevinkdog View Post
Yes, that is what I see too. I don't know the specifics, but it probably scales everything, so that the min is 0, and max is 100. This lets you more easily compare years where price is radically different.

Unfortunately this only lets you compare the shape of the curves, and removes the magnitude component. So you can see if present prices are moving up with past prices, but you can't see if the degree is similar or not, for example.

Reply With Quote
     
The following 2 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
     

Old October 2nd, 2013, 09:17 AM   #2147 (permalink)
Elite Member
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker/Data: various
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 2,194 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,004 given, 3,965 received


josh View Post
Unfortunately this only lets you compare the shape of the curves, and removes the magnitude component. So you can see if present prices are moving up with past prices, but you can't see if the degree is similar or not, for example.

Right one year the difference between high and low might be 2 points, another year it might be 20. Yet they'd both show 0 to 100.

What the chart is good for is identifying general seasonal tendencies. If I know almost every year the low is in November, and the high is in March, I might use that info to help guide my option selling.

If you have any questions please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
     

Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:17 PM   #2148 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OX, Z360, Excel
Broker/Data: DeCarley
Favorite Futures: Futures and Future Options
 
Posts: 121 since Aug 2013
Thanks: 75 given, 96 received

Seasonal Chart Scale

KEVIN AND JOSH,

So the scale is limiting oscillator. I don't understand why they would do it this way. As Josh says it is important to determine proportional nature of price movement (Or at least this is how I think).

FOR EXAMPLE.

The lean hog chat Kevin posted shows a double bottom towards the end of the year. I have now test several variations of chart the same 5 year seasonal pattern for the Lean Hog October contract and while my chart looks similar there are key differences.

On an oscillator style chart high and lows in the underlying may not be the same level (equal).

For the way I am currently calculating seasonality on a percentile approach (in comparison to the chart Kevin posted) I get a lower low and higher low rather then equal double bottom.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).



PLEASE NOTE THIS WORK IS STILL UNDER DEVELOPMENT. All comments and constructive criticism welcome.


Last edited by BlueRoo; October 2nd, 2013 at 08:23 PM. Reason: Correct Chart Added
Reply With Quote
     

Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:29 PM   #2149 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OX, Z360, Excel
Broker/Data: DeCarley
Favorite Futures: Futures and Future Options
 
Posts: 121 since Aug 2013
Thanks: 75 given, 96 received

Value and application of seasonal charts


kevinkdog View Post
Right one year the difference between high and low might be 2 points, another year it might be 20. Yet they'd both show 0 to 100.

What the chart is good for is identifying general seasonal tendencies. If I know almost every year the low is in November, and the high is in March, I might use that info to help guide my option selling.

Yes. I am also thinking that seasonal charts can help me this way as well. But I would look to add some other points.

1. Identify when High and Lows occur (Kevin's observation).

2. Identify the nature of price action (volatility) as technically sound or erratic.

3. Identify the relationship of the current price level to that of the seasonal pattern.

Happy for others to add or reassess value and application of seasonal charts.

Reply With Quote
     

Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:33 PM   #2150 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,902 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


ES margins increasing by 8.5% on Friday. Futures go from 3850 to 4180.

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to ron99 for this post:
     

Reply



futures.io > Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Traders Hideout > Options on Futures > Selling Options on Futures?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

NinjaTrader 8: Features and Enhancements, Tips and Tricks

Dec 6
 

Al Brooks: Stop Losing when a Good Trade goes Bad, Correcting Mistakes

Elite only
 

Trading Technologies: Algo Design Lab hands-on

Dec 13
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crude Oil (CL) futures inverse pairing options Big Mike Commodities Futures Trading 8 December 12th, 2013 12:00 PM
Recommend futures, options Broker? sam1197 Brokers and Data Feeds 17 March 27th, 2013 01:42 AM
Trading Futures with options as protection Gooffy2010 Commodities Futures Trading 6 October 2nd, 2012 05:55 PM
Selling Njniatrader sam1197 NinjaTrader 22 June 28th, 2012 01:40 PM
Zen-Fire Futures options tici88 Brokers and Data Feeds 1 July 30th, 2011 10:16 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:37 AM.

Copyright © 2016 by futures.io. All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
 
no new posts

Page generated 2016-12-03 in 0.14 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.167.155.163