Selling Options on Futures? - Options on Futures | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Selling Options on Futures?
Updated: Views / Replies:719,297 / 6,380
Created: by ron99 Attachments:737

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 737  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Selling Options on Futures?

  #2081 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Huntsville AL/USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: optionsXpress
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 54 since May 2012
Thanks: 80 given, 26 received


turch View Post
I don't mind sharing the email, I just don't know how to get it on this thread.
There are monkeys out there with computer skills better than mine.

Here it is. My margin did go up at the time but I just thought it was because CL spiked up. They also got my name completely wrong though it was for my IRA account.

Dear Mr. Randall,

Please be advised that your account XXXX-6219 has been flagged for review by our risk department as part of our concentration process. Your account is currently concentrated in a Crude Oil (NYMEX) position. In reviewing concentrations, futures and options on futures contracts are evaluated based on their trading volume, historic/implied volatility, and liquidity. We then stress test your portfolio and assess the impact of a price move on your account equity.

Being flagged for review implies having large positions that may currently represent significant losses to your account. It is important to remember that options are impacted by changes in both price and volatility and changes in volatility may be pronounced even when strike prices and expiration dates are still far out.

Due to your Concentration, your account, XXXX-6219, now has a Concentration Margin Call in the amount of $18,000 due Friday, 8/30/2013 by 11:00 am ET.

Going forward, should market conditions deteriorate or account equity erode, we may raise requirements on your positions, or may ask for additional funding. Please be mindful that, as stated in your margin agreement, we do reserve the right to take further action, including liquidation, should the level of exposure become a risk to OptionsXpress.

We are very happy to review these issues with you. Please feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns you may have by responding to this email or calling our trade desk at 888-280-6505.

Sincerely,

Robert Pandy
Risk Associate

Reply With Quote
 
  #2082 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker/Data: various
Favorite Futures: futures
 
Posts: 2,368 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,130 given, 4,340 received


turch View Post
Give them a call,but make sure you speak to the guy that wrote the "Futures Concentration" email, Robert Pandy, (wrote mine). After telling him my account was up 300% for the year with no losing trades mostly in CL, he told me, "oh you trade CL a bit?I did not check". Basically in their (OX) system, if a red light goes off,there are no questions asked. Initially I spoke with the guys on the futures desk both giving a standard you need to close out some positions answer. No help at all.My existing CL 's were due to expire in 7 days, well OTM. I mean come on.They got $600 in commission out of me. Very frustrating. This happened last week, I'm still mad.
Anyway, hope this helps. Call them, to be sure.

300% for the year is pretty awesome. Is that just from selling options? If so, are you doing it differently than Ron's method?

If you have any questions please send me a Private Message or use the futures.io "Ask Me Anything" thread
Reply With Quote
 
  #2083 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland, OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,719 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 792 given, 4,760 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


turch, this part of the letter is what concerns me.

Quoting 
changes in volatility may be pronounced even when strike prices and expiration dates are still far out.

You said they were only 7 DTE. They forgot to program the software to look at DTE.

Next time I suggest that everyone make sure they talk to Pandy. Because common sense would say that 7 DTE is not "expiration dates are still far out".

I sincerely hope OX does not go over the edge like they did at FC Stone. I had an account there that was only using 16% to cover margin. They told me it was too risky and I had to trade out of positions. As usual I was far OTM. I closed that account and all other accounts at FC Stone.

Raven, if you don't mind, can you tell us what positions and quantity of each that you had to trigger the concentration additional margin?

Reply With Quote
 
  #2084 (permalink)
10 out of 10
Sacramento, CA
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: None
Broker/Data: OX and DeCarley
Favorite Futures: Futures options
 
eudamonia's Avatar
 
Posts: 310 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 299 given, 424 received


ron99 View Post
I had one of those once after I had a margin call. But never without having a margin call first.

Surprised they do it on one account and not all of your accounts.

When they put that on my accounts they added more margin required for current positions.

I suspect this is a new procedure. I knew Schwab was going to ruin the good thing were had there.

I think they are well on the way to messing things up. When I tried to setup a corporate account with OX last month they messed me around for about 3 weeks before finally I spoke to several people who basically told me that you can't have a corporate account with OX for the purposes of investing. The guy told me, "if this was a landscape business then you could open it". Really .

Right now I've got the corporate account with DeCarley and the difference in customer service is night and day.

Reply With Quote
 
  #2085 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland, OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,719 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 792 given, 4,760 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


eudamonia View Post
I think they are well on the way to messing things up. When I tried to setup a corporate account with OX last month they messed me around for about 3 weeks before finally I spoke to several people who basically told me that you can't have a corporate account with OX for the purposes of investing. The guy told me, "if this was a landscape business then you could open it". Really .

Right now I've got the corporate account with DeCarley and the difference in customer service is night and day.

I opened a corporate account at OX Jan 2011, before Schwab, and it was a pain then, but got it open. Took 2 weeks.

What are DeCarley's commission rates? What platform are you using to trade with there?

Reply With Quote
 
  #2086 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland, OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,719 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 792 given, 4,760 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

Here are the settlement prices for ESv3 puts for 9/16 with 32 DTE.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


Based on how the curve starts to flatten out more at 0.35, I have decided that is where I will now exit them instead of riding them to expiration. Price erosion slows down at that point. Will be better ROI%.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to ron99 for this post:
 
  #2087 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland, OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,719 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 792 given, 4,760 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

FWIW
Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


The major drop in price and margin was far more due to ES futures rising than time erosion. 1566-1689 mid-June to mid-July.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


I don't know what I learned from this. Anybody see anything?

Reply With Quote
 
  #2088 (permalink)
10 out of 10
Sacramento, CA
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: None
Broker/Data: OX and DeCarley
Favorite Futures: Futures options
 
eudamonia's Avatar
 
Posts: 310 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 299 given, 424 received


ron99 View Post
I opened a corporate account at OX Jan 2011, before Schwab, and it was a pain then, but got it open. Took 2 weeks.

What are DeCarley's commission rates? What platform are you using to trade with there?

The rates are based on volume and are competitive but not the cheapest thing out there. However, I'm getting actual SPAN rates not 10-30% above SPAN. Most importantly they want my business and have a knowledgeable person on the other side of the phone/email. I'm not talking to monkey #5 who knows nothing about trading or what I do. Somehow that is priceless.

Zaner360 which is a very nice platform considering there is no additional monthly fee. I only wish they had a mobile version.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to eudamonia for this post:
 
  #2089 (permalink)
10 out of 10
Sacramento, CA
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: None
Broker/Data: OX and DeCarley
Favorite Futures: Futures options
 
eudamonia's Avatar
 
Posts: 310 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 299 given, 424 received


ron99 View Post
FWIW
Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


The major drop in price and margin was far more due to ES futures rising than time erosion. 1566-1689 mid-June to mid-July.

Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).


I don't know what I learned from this. Anybody see anything?

We don't really know the CME SPAN rate formula; however, it likely involves some component of the volatility pricing model. The S&P 500 displays attributes of a volatility smile: meaning that as prices climb volatility shrinks. There is a high degree of inverse correlation between the VIX and the S&P 500.

Reply With Quote
 
  #2090 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Cleveland, OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,719 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 792 given, 4,760 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary



eudamonia View Post
The rates are based on volume and are competitive but not the cheapest thing out there. However, I'm getting actual SPAN rates not 10-30% above SPAN. Most importantly they want my business and have a knowledgeable person on the other side of the phone/email. I'm not talking to monkey #5 who knows nothing about trading or what I do. Somehow that is priceless.

Zaner360 which is a very nice platform considering there is no additional monthly fee. I only wish they had a mobile version.

Yes SPAN margins are more important than commission fees when fees are close. An extra position is worth more than fee difference usually.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > > Selling Options on Futures?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Dec 7

Linda Bradford Raschke: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trading Futures with options as protection Gooffy2010 Commodities Futures Trading 7 November 7th, 2017 12:06 PM
Crude Oil (CL) futures inverse pairing options Big Mike Commodities Futures Trading 8 December 12th, 2013 12:00 PM
Recommend futures, options Broker? sam1197 Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 17 March 27th, 2013 01:42 AM
Selling Njniatrader sam1197 NinjaTrader 22 June 28th, 2012 01:40 PM
Zen-Fire Futures options tici88 Reviews of Brokers and Data Feeds 1 July 30th, 2011 10:16 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:47 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-11-21 in 0.09 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.224.102.26