Selling Options on Futures? (Page 112) - Options on Futures | futures.io
futures.io futures trading
 

Go Back   futures.io

> Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Traders Hideout > Options on Futures


Selling Options on Futures?
Started:July 19th, 2011 (06:16 PM) by ron99 Views / Replies:567,971 / 5,727
Last Reply:22 Hours Ago (12:40 PM) Attachments:642

Welcome to futures.io.

Welcome, Guest!

This forum was established to help traders (especially futures traders) by openly sharing indicators, strategies, methods, trading journals and discussing the psychology of trading.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading forums:
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive on our forums.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendor advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in openness and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, it is not something tangible you can download.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.


You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free and simple, and we will never resell your private information.

-- Big Mike
     

Reply
 642  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread

Selling Options on Futures?

Old March 23rd, 2013, 11:27 PM   #1111 (permalink)
Trading's simple not easy
Adelaide Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja > MC
Broker/Data: AMPs
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Angelo1's Avatar
 
Posts: 89 since May 2011
Thanks: 1,415 given, 47 received

Option Swingin daytrader

Hi ron
mind if i join yr thread?

Nice thread very open & relaxed, haven't started from the beginning unfortunately (i'm starting to experience a new form of aging, "Threading futures.io (formerly BMT)", takes years off yr life, great site & resource though)
As the title suggests i'm wanting to incorporate my options education into my trading plan, I really like futures trading as opposed to stocks options and CFDs but spent the last few years spinning my wheels trying to get my mojo back after the GFFC,,, (not a typo)
i want to get up to speed with futures options and hoping you can provide me with a link to either yr thread or other that have detail on this subject, particularly brokers, markets to trade, platforms etc,

I've spent a few years with he ES CL occasionally GC and started to look at XT YT 6E, never looked at crop circles or anything like that, and would like to know more about the above probably start with 1 or 2 at first, but i get impatient waiting for set ups & like the idea of daily charting for swings in between time or at the same time if you know what i mean

I'm currently using NT7 & Mirus with Zenfire if you can provide feedback on that it would be a great start, as Mirus still haven't replied

Thanks in advance
cheers
Angelo

"If you believe you CAN, or, you believe you CAN'T, you're RIGHT!"
Reply With Quote
     

Old March 23rd, 2013, 11:40 PM   #1112 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,902 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary

Hi Angelo,

Frankly, the best place to answer your questions is to read this thread from the beginning.

What is GFFC?

Reply With Quote
     
The following user says Thank You to ron99 for this post:
     

Old March 24th, 2013, 08:24 PM   #1113 (permalink)
Elite Member
NW Florida
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OX and TOS
Favorite Futures: Futures Options, Stocks
 
opts's Avatar
 
Posts: 233 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 29 given, 107 received


Selling options on the last day or day before expiration:

Anyone had any luck selling a day or so before expiration? GC opts expire tomorrow and I'm wondering if anyone has tried to sell 5% away or so from the current price; not specifically in GC but in any high volume commodity. The 1500 April put traded tonight already. There is some early volume ATM but that is expected. Just kicking things around here....

Reply With Quote
     

Old March 24th, 2013, 09:15 PM   #1114 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,902 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


opts View Post
Selling options on the last day or day before expiration:

Anyone had any luck selling a day or so before expiration? GC opts expire tomorrow and I'm wondering if anyone has tried to sell 5% away or so from the current price; not specifically in GC but in any high volume commodity. The 1500 April put traded tonight already. There is some early volume ATM but that is expected. Just kicking things around here....

Occasionally. They used to be more available a few years ago. Lately not much.

In the widely traded commodities their seem to always be limit low asks already in place. Like the GC 1500.

Most are only $10 before fees.

But don't get greedy on them. You can lose many years of profit selling them with one wrong trade.

Reply With Quote
     

Old March 24th, 2013, 09:57 PM   #1115 (permalink)
Elite Member
NW Florida
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OX and TOS
Favorite Futures: Futures Options, Stocks
 
opts's Avatar
 
Posts: 233 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 29 given, 107 received

Futures Edge on FIO

ron99 View Post
Occasionally. They used to be more available a few years ago. Lately not much.

In the widely traded commodities their seem to always be limit low asks already in place. Like the GC 1500.

Most are only $10 before fees.

But don't get greedy on them. You can lose many years of profit selling them with one wrong trade.

Yes. The temptation is always there but the ramifications could blow your account. I was still thinking about way OTM if there was any volume. And, there would have to be a good bit of volatility to make anything worthwhile. Gotta be someone to scoop up the scraps...

Reply With Quote
     

Old March 25th, 2013, 09:20 AM   #1116 (permalink)
Elite Member
NW Florida
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OX and TOS
Favorite Futures: Futures Options, Stocks
 
opts's Avatar
 
Posts: 233 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 29 given, 107 received

News on the Cyprus bailout....last three paragraphs in particular:

Oil's Gains on Cyprus Deal Seen Short-Lived

Reply With Quote
     

Old March 25th, 2013, 02:02 PM   #1117 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Houston, Texas
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Interactive Brokers, OptionsXpress
Broker/Data: Options Express
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
MJ888's Avatar
 
Posts: 165 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 37 given, 123 received


ron99 View Post
While sometimes it is hard finding suitable positions and buyers of those options, it can be done.

So far this year I have had 1,301 short options expire in 2013. All have been ridden to expiration and all expired OTM. They made a net of $34k.

Currently I have on in all of my accounts 1,724 short options. They are currently up a net $37.8k. They have $19.4k possible profit left in them.

Good job Ron! I know you keep 66% in cash so just curious how much actual margin are you tying up with 1,724 short positions. And how do you keep track of each position in terms of how much margin, profit or loss each has?

Reply With Quote
     

Old March 25th, 2013, 02:39 PM   #1118 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,902 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


MJ888 View Post
Good job Ron! I know you keep 66% in cash so just curious how much actual margin are you tying up with 1,724 short positions. And how do you keep track of each position in terms of how much margin, profit or loss each has?

After I removed the contracts that expired today, HO, RB, NG, I have 1,454 contracts. Margin 154k. Excess 289k. I have some options that expire next week at zero excess. A few other options are at 1X (for example May KC calls that >200).

Excel spreadsheets and Access database is how I keep track.

I automatically import prices from my data provider to my linked excel sheet that has all current positions. This sheet is where I mark the positions for how much excess I want. 2x, 1X or 0X for positions that are < week from expiring and still far OTM.

I import SPAN margins each night into another sheet. A third sheet keeps the percent extra margin required by OX for each commodity. This OX factor is applied to the SPAN margins to get OX margins.

All of this is used by the Access database to give me totals. Every trade is entered into Access.

Reply With Quote
     
The following 3 users say Thank You to ron99 for this post:
     

Old March 25th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #1119 (permalink)
Trading for Fun
Houston, Texas
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Interactive Brokers, OptionsXpress
Broker/Data: Options Express
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
MJ888's Avatar
 
Posts: 165 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 37 given, 123 received


opts View Post
Selling options on the last day or day before expiration:

Anyone had any luck selling a day or so before expiration? GC opts expire tomorrow and I'm wondering if anyone has tried to sell 5% away or so from the current price; not specifically in GC but in any high volume commodity. The 1500 April put traded tonight already. There is some early volume ATM but that is expected. Just kicking things around here....

Selling options with a day or so left until expiration appears to be tempting but the small reward is definitely not worth the risk. The premiums will be so low that you would have to sell a lot to make decent money, also, you would probably need to select strikes that are much closer to the money. Because you sold a lot and will be much closer to the money than you normally would be, any decent rally or sell off will be a ton of trouble. Just not worth the risk to me.

Reply With Quote
     

Old March 25th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #1120 (permalink)
Market Wizard
OH
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker/Data: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Favorite Futures: Options on Futures
 
Posts: 2,323 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 634 given, 3,902 received
Forum Reputation: Legendary


I forgot to say I only sell those expiring options on expiration day. A day or so earlier would be too risky. And yes you don't make much money.

They were much more lucrative a few years ago. You could sell options more than what you would expect the futures could move in one day for $30-50. Now only $10 are available. Maybe.

Reply With Quote
     

Reply



futures.io > Futures Trading, News, Charts and Platforms > Traders Hideout > Options on Futures > Selling Options on Futures?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

NinjaTrader 8: Features and Enhancements, Tips and Tricks

Dec 6
 

Al Brooks: Stop Losing when a Good Trade goes Bad, Correcting Mistakes

Elite only
 

Trading Technologies: Algo Design Lab hands-on

Dec 13
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crude Oil (CL) futures inverse pairing options Big Mike Commodities Futures Trading 8 December 12th, 2013 12:00 PM
Recommend futures, options Broker? sam1197 Brokers and Data Feeds 17 March 27th, 2013 01:42 AM
Trading Futures with options as protection Gooffy2010 Commodities Futures Trading 6 October 2nd, 2012 05:55 PM
Selling Njniatrader sam1197 NinjaTrader 22 June 28th, 2012 01:40 PM
Zen-Fire Futures options tici88 Brokers and Data Feeds 1 July 30th, 2011 10:16 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35 AM.

Copyright © 2016 by futures.io. All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
 
no new posts

Page generated 2016-12-03 in 0.14 seconds with 20 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.167.155.163