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TSA, groping/screening, lawsuit, freedoms we enjoy ending?
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TSA, groping/screening, lawsuit, freedoms we enjoy ending?

  #1 (permalink)
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TSA, groping/screening, lawsuit, freedoms we enjoy ending?

Robert Dean Cites 4th Amendment Violation, Sues TSA Over Full-Body Scans


Quoting 
An Arkansas man has filed a federal lawsuit against the Transportation Security Administration, claiming that the agency's new screening rules are detrimental to his "emotional, psychological and mental well-being."

Robert Dean filed the lawsuit Monday in federal court in Little Rock, even though the Little Rock National Airport does not yet have the full-body scanners that have drawn criticism throughout the country. Dean's lawsuit asks a federal judge to issue an injunction stopping the TSA from conducting full-body pat-down searches and using the full-body imaging scanners.

The lawsuit claims that the new practices violate Dean's civil rights and his Fourth Amendment right protecting against unlawful searches and seizures.

Good for him, I'd like to see what comes of this.

I think the bottom line is something like this --- there is a threat. To combat the threat, they want more invasive security. This invasive security aims to minimize the chance of terrorism on the aircraft.

Now, if you are an individual who is against what TSA is doing and etc etc, then what are your options? Do you simply not fly? What if your job requires it?

The ultimate issue here is that one individual among hundreds in a plane (or millions in the broader picture) can directly effect others. One individual blows up a plane and hundreds (or more) die.

If you are in your car, and driving on the interstate, you can control what goes on in your car. Perhaps you won't allow any of your friends to enter the vehicle if they are carrying a bomb, for instance. But, what happens once you are on the interstate? Another driver in another car can still aim their vehicle at yours with the intent of killing you.

At what point do you draw the line? Now do we need "TSA" on the interstates, screening people as they go through checkpoints, to make sure someone in their car isn't trying to kill someone else in another car? How is this any different than what they are doing at the airports?

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  #2 (permalink)
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Informative video on the subject:

YouTube - Very funny SNL spoof of TSA - Enhanced Screening Pat Down Procedures

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The TSA is a day late and a dollar short.
The scanners used by the TSA can not find cavity bombs to my knowledge. So what if
a cavity bomb was actually used. What would...I mean, what did happen?

Excerpt from CBS below:

Al Qaeda has developed a new tactic that allows suicide bombers to breach even the tightest security...

To get his bomb into this room, Abdullah Asieri, one of Saudi Arabia's most wanted men, avoided detection by two sets of airport security including metal detectors and palace security. He spent 30 hours in the close company of the prince's own secret service agents - all without anyone suspecting a thing.



Taking a trick from the narcotics trade - which has long smuggled drugs in body cavities - Asieri had a pound of high explosives, plus a detonator inserted in his rectum.

This was a meticulously planned operation with al Qaeda once again producing something new: this time, the Trojan bomber.

The blast left the prince lightly wounded - a failure as an assassination, but as an exercise in defeating security, it was perfect.





Al Qaeda Bombers Learn from Drug Smugglers - CBS Evening News - CBS News





===============================================================================
Something attributed to Benjamin Franklin:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin - Wikiquote


It would be great if every American had such courage.

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Being a fan of WWII history as well as the cold war, I can tell you that ALL societies that have given up privacy and security in their person have ALL ended up trampling on the rights of the individual. The Constitution guarantees the right of every citizen to be secure in their person, property and papers. Search and seizure without a warrant is a violation of every right we have as citizens.

Once government (any kind or any party) realizes they can detain, search and seize without the citizen demanding it stop, they will never look back. Governments only real job is to get bigger and the only way to do that is control the people so the people are totally dependent on the government for everything. I don't care if you are a democrat or republican, it seems both parties have the same goal, just different means of getting there.

However, the progressive element within the democrat party is really in tune with the total control of society by government. It reminds me of Ayn Rand's book, The Fountainhead. I see many similarities between her writings back in the early 20th century and what is happening now under each new administration which seems to become more and more like the socialist/progressives she wrote about.

I live in the southwest, there are border patrol checkpoints on every major highway. It reminds me of the checkpoints the Soviets and Nazis used to control and compartmentalize their citizens.

It seems as though we the the people have become we the suspected enemy. I for one am tired of it. National security is not that important. Profile the bad guys and only search the ones that fit the profile. There is no reason to treat the average citizen like a criminal....unless the government sees you that way to start with.....guilty until proven innocent is how it seems to be going.

We the people would do well to read and study the founding fathers words and writings. Much of today's problems were being experienced then as well (England's government had gotten to big for its own good) and they wrote and spoke volumes about how to properly set up a government without destroying the rights we are endowed with by our Creator. Things like a central bank, a standing army and welfare. Believe it or not, these were all addressed by the founders.

Oh well, time to get off my soap box, I have tons to say about this issue.......

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aztrader9 View Post
Being a fan of WWII history as well as the cold war, I can tell you that ALL societies that have given up privacy and security in their person have ALL ended up trampling on the rights of the individual. The Constitution guarantees the right of every citizen to be secure in their person, property and papers. Search and seizure without a warrant is a violation of every right we have as citizens.

Once government (any kind or any party) realizes they can detain, search and seize without the citizen demanding it stop, they will never look back. Governments only real job is to get bigger and the only way to do that is control the people so the people are totally dependent on the government for everything. I don't care if you are a democrat or republican, it seems both parties have the same goal, just different means of getting there.

However, the progressive element within the democrat party is really in tune with the total control of society by government. It reminds me of Ayn Rand's book, The Fountainhead. I see many similarities between her writings back in the early 20th century and what is happening now under each new administration which seems to become more and more like the socialist/progressives she wrote about.

I live in the southwest, there are border patrol checkpoints on every major highway. It reminds me of the checkpoints the Soviets and Nazis used to control and compartmentalize their citizens.

It seems as though we the the people have become we the suspected enemy. I for one am tired of it. National security is not that important. Profile the bad guys and only search the ones that fit the profile. There is no reason to treat the average citizen like a criminal....unless the government sees you that way to start with.....guilty until proven innocent is how it seems to be going.

We the people would do well to read and study the founding fathers words and writings. Much of today's problems were being experienced then as well (England's government had gotten to big for its own good) and they wrote and spoke volumes about how to properly set up a government without destroying the rights we are endowed with by our Creator. Things like a central bank, a standing army and welfare. Believe it or not, these were all addressed by the founders.

Oh well, time to get off my soap box, I have tons to say about this issue.......


I find it ironic ironic that US Citizens are subjected to treatment that would never be tolerated were it against illegal immigrants. We've been impregnated with too much white guilt to even allow our police officers to ask if a person is in this country legally, but our government has no problem whatsoever feeling up old women and children without consent. Well, they do have consent.... in the same way that we "voluntarily" pay taxes each year.
Little by little... bit by bit we are being subdued by our own Frankenstein's Monster.

"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these bureaucrats are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?"
Frédéric Bastiat (The Law)

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I really don't know where I stand on this issue. If I grew up or spent the
last 10 years in Israel I believe I could know instantly just what to say here.
I am quite certain however that if an airliner went down each week over the
U.S. the outcry over ANY and ALL TSA pat downs, questioning, scanning etc.
would be near zero.

- Stephen

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Total number of terrorists captured by the TSA ??? !!!! 0 !!!!

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RJay

Do you suggest we abolish the TSA?

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TSA responds to angry travelers:

YouTube - New TSA Commercial in Response to Angry Travelers

Director of TSA explains searches:

YouTube - TSA Director Reviews Invasive Screening Process



Gotta have some fun

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Have you ever gone through airport screening in Israel? They DO NOT impose these types of measure on their citizens. They use the only effective screening method which is criminal profiling. ( There is a difference between criminal profiling and racial profiling) If you go through Israeli security, you are very unlikely to have any contact with their security, but they are there in spades. And they are watching. When asked about their methods one security agent replied, "In America, you are screening for weapons. In Israel, we are looking for terrorists". The lopsided social decorum in America will never allow this, yet it is the only truly effective approach.
It's been said that if someone wants to break into someplace or steal something bad enough, there is no lock in the world that can stop them. The same is of airport security. Our methods may stop or deter the half-hearted terrorist, but if someone really wants to take down an airliner, there is no method in the world that will stop them by only searching for the tools that are going to use. The greatest odds for success are to attempt to identify the person. This is akin to closing your eyes & throwing a musical instrument down a flight of stairs and trying to reconstruct what the instrument looked like based upon the sound it makes as it is dashed to pieces. It's simply absurd.
But this is the approach we have always taken in modern America. Impose measures that inconvenience honest people at best... or completely trample their rights at worst, but really don't do anything to address the real problem..
I believe that is the real source of outrage over the TSA fiasco. Deep down inside, every American knows it's all smoke and mirrors. We know that this really isn't going to make us safe, yet we have paid a terrible price in sacrificing our liberty to pay admission to witness this illusion. Claiming the success of our approach because there hasn’t been another catastrophe, is akin to being a proponent of unprotected sex just because you haven’t contracted an STD yet.

There was one thing that separated America from all other societies in history. The difference was that this nation was founded upon an idea that we will value liberty above all else. That idea was that life, liberty and personal property do not exist because government grants it, but rather governments are created because life, liberty and personal property existed beforehand.
There are challenges that accompany this. We value freedom so highly, that we would rather turn a guilty man free than make the mistake of imprisoning an innocent one. Likewise, we must take active responsibility for our own lives. Our security is our own responsibility. Our success, as well as our failure is on ourselves and no-one else. There was a time when this was the common belief system. There has been a myth perpetuated about this time also. Most are not aware that crime was almost non-existent in American territories prior to formal government. It was not until an "official" government was in place in these areas that crime skyrocketed. This was because people immediately abdicated their personal responsibility to create a safe society to the ruling authorities. In reality, the "wild west" was not wild at all. It was one of the safest and most peaceful times in American history.
Until modern times, every American viewed himself/herself as a shepherd of American society. The sheep were life, liberty and personal property... and they were to be protected with our very lives. Today, we have become the sheep and a select few have appointed themselves the shepherds. There is nobody to protect life, liberty and personal property except for a few black sheep.

The concern that many people, including myself, have is that the government has ulterior motives in most of what they do. There is clearly a disparity in what they say they are doing versus their actions. For example, they reject criminal profiling as a means to identify potential threats at the airport. They would have us believe it would be unjust and immoral. Yet just last year it was discovered that the Missouri information Centers were compiling lists of people who met criteria to put them at risk of being domestic terrorists. The fact that it was done so secretively reveals that they acknowledge their hypocrisy. When the governments actions are contrary to their words, you have to ask yourself, "What's really going on?" I'm no conspiracy theorist. I believe the truth is far less sinister. It' simple human nature. The innate desire for power and control. Some subdue their nature while others feed it, but no-one is immune to it. Those who feed their desire for power will inherently gravitate to positions that facilitate it. There's no wonder all governments eventually become corrupt to the point of collapse.
I believe that most people are decent and good. i believe that most politicians have the good of the people and this nation at heart. But I also believe that there are precious few politicians who have the integrity to consistently place those interests above their own desires; therfore the people and nation will suffer.


Last edited by Slipknot511; November 25th, 2010 at 02:36 PM.
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