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Sierrachart Support Posting Conspiracy Theories On Official Forum

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  #11 (permalink)
 lemons 
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gigwam View Post
Looks like Sierra Chart took down the post on the support board. You can still find it through the link.

Sorry to see them giving in to herd mentality.

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  #12 (permalink)
 lemons 
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gigwam View Post
Not a very Positive Mental Attitude Lemons!

Reallity and postitivity are 2 different things.
To expect that you pet dog will live 40 year old, is positivity ?

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  #13 (permalink)
 michaelleemoore 
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lemons View Post
Nice to see that some companies have balls. GO SC, GO SC.
Life don't matter to WHO and to coverments all over the world. Only " covid " life mattes.

Alcohol kills 3 times more than covid.
Smoking kills every second long term smoker.
People make 2 time more suicides that covid kills.
If life matter WHO and coverments please ban alcohol and tubacco.

And what a joke, wear a mask in gym.
Estonian gyms are mask free. And no covid spead.

Reality check : average life span of dogs 10 year, cats 15 year, people 77 years.
Is normal when 77 year and older people die.
People who should die are dying and thats all.

I hope your data analysis in trading is better than your data analysis of people dying. But maybe you're just talking about Estonia. In one sentence, here's a rebuttal of your claim from the Centers for Disease Control in the US regarding deaths here:




If you understand "excess deaths," the figure in that graphic is far above the average number of deaths for this period of time in the US. Yes, many of those folks were older, but the current expansion of Covid cases shows higher death rates developing for younger people. Not to mention people who didn't die but are still suffering from catastrophic damage to their long-term health.

I point this out to just make it clear that numbers don't mean much when context -- in this case, what is actually happening RIGHT NOW -- is disregarded. Beyond that, I understand arguing with conspiracy folks is mostly futile.

Still, it's worth a go. The most grievous part of your statement doesn't involve the numbers, though. It's your cavalier reaction to people dying who wouldn't have have died without Covid. I don't care if they were old and maybe would have died a few years later due to natural causes. In those few years they still had left, maybe they visited a place they always wanted to see. Maybe they were present when their granddaughter got married, and maybe they had a chance to walk her down the aisle. Maybe they live in Montana, like I do, and got to see the sun set on the Bitterroot Mountains for 700 more days.

Maybe when you're a little older, you'll have a little more respect for life rather speaking so rudely of people's deaths.

Finally, I have lost three friends to Covid -- not one of them was over 60. All were in good health. All had families who loved them. They had bucket lists of things to do as they grew older. They were vital parts of their communities. They had children and grandchildren. They lived fully. And yet you say this about them: "people who should die are dying and thats (sic) all."

I find that entirely unacceptable.

Michael

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  #14 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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There is always a problem with discussions that veer off into topics that are the subject of conspiracy theories.

Michael just said he had three friends who had died from covid, and presented statistics that the US has had almost 300,000 excess deaths this year, deaths that are above the expected number based on the usual causes, including deaths due to old age, as well as alcohol, tobacco, traffic accidents and everything else. Deaths that are above the normally-expected number from all causes. The majority of these excess deaths have been identified as due to covid.

This is reality.

Minimizing and mocking this reality, and the reality of people who have suffered and died, and the reality of the grief of their families and friends, is far out of bounds. This is a tragedy that cannot be shrugged off or dismissed lightly and uncaringly. It doesn't matter what a person's views may be on what should be done or not done about the virus itself, nor one's political or ideological beliefs. People have died, in large numbers.

There is a limit to what can be accepted in rational debate, and it has been reached.

This thread is closed.

Bob.

--------------------

Edit: on reflection, I decided that closing the thread because of one post would be an over-reaction, and it is now open again.

However, the fact remains that there is a real human tragedy going on right now all over the world, and it is not something to be mocked or to be indifferent to.

Posts that do so will be deleted.

Reasonable discussion, including discussion from many points of view, is always appropriate. This would even include if someone wanted to dispute the official numbers.... with sources, not internet conspiracies.

But making light of suffering is another matter.

Bob.

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-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #15 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Let me also point out that there is already a covid-19 thread, for general discussions on the virus. Posts that are simply about covid should go there.

To be on topic, comments in this thread should relate to the Sierra Chart post that it began with. Please direct more general comments to the covid thread itself.

Thanks.

Bob.

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  #16 (permalink)
 AllSeeker 
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I've no idea why any business would want to touch two of the most controversial topics in this century and on top of that support questionable stance.

In business sense that's a very stupid move and generally can cause polarization in the potential client group. I'm very surprised that any business that has an international presence and strong background would resort to these kind of things

Its a shame since I come across lot of happy SC users and this will not help anyone.


And also little side note, since I don't want to engage in corona thread to keep my sanity. I understand all of us have lost something due to shutdowns and all of us are angry at how its being handled by our governments and WHO, but lets not turn this into conspiracy. Its very real and in countries like mine government doesn't even have real data to do the real damage analysis, to both man and money.

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  #17 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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To Sierra that (hopefully) will read this thread:

1) NO ONE is interested in your political opinions. Build better tools for traders, continue to innovate, and place your customers first.
2) Software UNITES people, creates groups, better communication, and reciprocity. Don't divide your fans with political statements.

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  #18 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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I have received a DM from a long-time and respected futures.io member whom I regard as a friend, disagreeing with some of my moderation actions regarding the last few posts, and also regarding @michaelleemoore's post.

My correspondent's essential points, as I read them, are that Michael spoke negatively of another member with whom he disagreed, which should not have been allowed; that the other posts may have been wrong, but that Michael's was as well and should have been deleted; and that moderators (meaning me) should not "Thank" posts that step over the line, because it suggests a bias that is not consistent with the role of a moderator and inhibits future trust by others in a moderator's fairness, as well as encouraging others who have overstepped to continue their behavior.

I've given this some thought and taken some time to consider it, because a moderator should not take sides in disputes that he is moderating. I am willing to acknowledge mistakes when they are pointed out to me, and it is better to do so than to insist on having been always right, which I am not.

So, here are my current thoughts on these points:

For the most part, @michaelleemoore was presenting a factual counterexample, based on cited sources, to a claim ("People who should die are dying and thats all") about the unimportance of the covid-19 deaths. He was forceful in his expressions, which is not in itself a problem, but he did make it personal on least at one point, in his conclusion:


michaelleemoore View Post
I am doing my best to not drop the F Bomb here, so I'll end with this. I feel blessed to not know you. Your comments disgust me and are a stain upon the memory of my friends and all those who have died.

Michael

I can understand the passion, but this does go over the line into personal remarks and is uncalled for. I do not think that the entire post deserves deletion, but I agree that this part should be called out as going too far. This is not unlike other occasions when someone had to be cautioned about getting overheated, without having their post deleted.

I doubt that either @michaelleemoore or my correspondent will find this entirely satisfactory, but I do aim to be fair, and I think that the statistic that the US has had nearly 300,000 more deaths this year than would be expected is important and relevant, in a context where it has been stated that nothing significant has been going on. I do regret that Michael used this language and suggest that he should edit it. But I'm going to let the post stand.

Concerning ongoing moderation, my previous statement still stands: "Reasonable discussion, including discussion from many points of view, is always appropriate. This would even include if someone wanted to dispute the official numbers.... with sources, not internet conspiracies." This is, I believe, the best guideline to follow.

With regard to my "Thanks," this is simpler: I agree that in this situation it was a mistake. I always have the dual role as a regular person and as a moderator for the forum, and I made a mistake in thanking a post in a situation where I was also moderating. I have removed my Thanks.

----------------

I will now make a personal remark just as member of the forum, although it also bears on my moderation: I am sick unto death of pointless disputes over the covid virus.

You would think that all that can be said on the matter already has been, but obviously this is not the case, and no worthwhile result has occurred so far from the endless rehash of positions. I take it that no one is going to budge, and that positions are set in stone and no one is going to be convinced of anything they do not presently believe. So this is a matter that people of good will should just drop and move on from, on this forum at least. There is much more to do in a forum where we have a common concern about trading, and can contribute to each other without regard to other positions we may have.

Personal note: I have my opinions too, but have stopped posting them in the covid-19 thread because I find it totally non-productive to continue with these disputes.

This thread was begun because of a position taken on the SC website (which apparently has since been removed), and posts here should be directed to that topic alone.

I think the best comment on this thread and on this entire matter was made by @mattz, which was meant for SC but I think applies at this point across the board, to everyone:


mattz View Post
To Sierra that (hopefully) will read this thread:

1) NO ONE is interested in your political opinions. Build better tools for traders, continue to innovate, and place your customers first.
2) Software UNITES people, creates groups, better communication, and reciprocity. Don't divide your fans with political statements.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Perhaps we can let this rest and find other things to discuss now.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #19 (permalink)
 michaelleemoore 
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bobwest View Post
I have received a DM from a long-time and respected futures.io member whom I regard as a friend, disagreeing with some of my moderation actions regarding the last few posts, and also regarding @michaelleemoore's post.

My correspondent's essential points, as I read them, are that Michael spoke negatively of another member with whom he disagreed, which should not have been allowed; that the other posts may have been wrong, but that Michael's was as well and should have been deleted; and that moderators (meaning me) should not "Thank" posts that step over the line, because it suggests a bias that is not consistent with the role of a moderator and inhibits future trust by others in a moderator's fairness, as well as encouraging others who have overstepped to continue their behavior.

I've given this some thought and taken some time to consider it, because a moderator should not take sides in disputes that he is moderating. I am willing to acknowledge mistakes when they are pointed out to me, and it is better to do so than to insist on having been always right, which I am not.

So, here are my current thoughts on these points:

For the most part, @michaelleemoore was presenting a factual counterexample, based on cited sources, to a claim ("People who should die are dying and thats all") about the unimportance of the covid-19 deaths. He was forceful in his expressions, which is not in itself a problem, but he did make it personal on least at one point, in his conclusion:



I can understand the passion, but this does go over the line into personal remarks and is uncalled for. I do not think that the entire post deserves deletion, but I agree that this part should be called out as going too far. This is not unlike other occasions when someone had to be cautioned about getting overheated, without having their post deleted.

I doubt that either @michaelleemoore or my correspondent will find this entirely satisfactory, but I do aim to be fair, and I think that the statistic that the US has had nearly 300,000 more deaths this year than would be expected is important and relevant, in a context where it has been stated that nothing significant has been going on. I do regret that Michael used this language and suggest that he should edit it. But I'm going to let the post stand.

Concerning ongoing moderation, my previous statement still stands: "Reasonable discussion, including discussion from many points of view, is always appropriate. This would even include if someone wanted to dispute the official numbers.... with sources, not internet conspiracies." This is, I believe, the best guideline to follow.

With regard to my "Thanks," this is simpler: I agree that in this situation it was a mistake. I always have the dual role as a regular person and as a moderator for the forum, and I made a mistake in thanking a post in a situation where I was also moderating. I have removed my Thanks.

----------------

I will now make a personal remark just as member of the forum, although it also bears on my moderation: I am sick unto death of pointless disputes over the covid virus.

You would think that all that can be said on the matter already has been, but obviously this is not the case, and no worthwhile result has occurred so far from the endless rehash of positions. I take it that no one is going to budge, and that positions are set in stone and no one is going to be convinced of anything they do not presently believe. So this is a matter that people of good will should just drop and move on from, on this forum at least. There is much more to do in a forum where we have a common concern about trading, and can contribute to each other without regard to other positions we may have.

Personal note: I have my opinions too, but have stopped posting them in the covid-19 thread because I find it totally non-productive to continue with these disputes.

This thread was begun because of a position taken on the SC website (which apparently has since been removed), and posts here should be directed to that topic alone.

I think the best comment on this thread and on this entire matter was made by @mattz, which was meant for SC but I think applies at this point across the board, to everyone:



Perhaps we can let this rest and find other things to discuss now.

Bob.

I have taken down my harsh assessment of Lemons, though I actually feel it wasn't nearly harsh enough, particularly his comment that was removed. I understand the point being made by the former member and don't entirely disagree. But I do disagree in part, and that is that hateful, untrue responses need to be countered, even if the response reflects poorly on the person who made the original post.

These are extraordinary times, and they sometimes need extraordinary responses. The next time I feel such a response is needed, I will speak directly to the offender.

Michael

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 Devil Man 
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it's nice to see that our futures.io members community in general have a high standard of character, integrity and professionalism.

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