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Migrant crisis
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Migrant crisis

  #11 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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I think this is a very interesting topic. One I personally think a wall is a good thing and honestly don't understand the push back? Why because it is a couple billion dollars to put it in simple terms if you had 100 dollars wouldn't you spend 3-5% of it to make things a little safer? Will the wall be the end all be all to illegal immigration no way. When people want something bad enough they always find a way but it will hopefully make things a little harder and it serves as a large defensive barrier if we were ever to be attacked from the south.

Two I think immigration at a whole needs to be revamped we have people waiting 10 years to get in and that is defiantly one of the problems, it shouldn't take that long. This is a country of immigrants and we need to keep it that way BUT we also needs a proper vetting process. I would gladly pay more in taxes if we could make a better system.

Three, i agree with the rest of you that teens should be doing a lot of this work. The day i turned 16 I had a job cleaning dishes( FYI never eat at a buffet ) because i was told if i ever wanted to buy anything i better get my ass in gear. But on the other hand teens now have opportunities to do other type of work and get paid well. Youtube,streaming,trading ( parental account) the list goes on and on so you can't blame them if they want to make youtube videos and not sweat there ass off . I'd do the same thing and you could make a hell of a lot more money off of youtube adds then you would be picking weeds or washing dishes. Eventually all those tasks will become automated and the people who depend on those jobs will either have to adapt or move on to the next market that hasn't been automated.

The company i used to work for sold robotic welding equipment we were a signal source supplier. We had a large trailer company in California who one day ICE made a visit to and arrested over 100 illegal immigrants the next day they automated over 60% of there production. These jobs are going to disappear soon, there will always be some but not to the extent they use to be and we should be proud of that, it means we are evolving.

If we were to have a better immigration program we could vet people and try and place them in a growing market such as robotics/programming/ whatever it may be but it would end up helping us in the long run we would be much more dominate in the world market.

Comes down to the USA needs to get over its mid 1900's philosophy of how we do things.


-P

"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie"-Miyamoto Musashi
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  #12 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
Having said that, there is an undisputable ongoing situation, where a considerable influx of people mostly from Africa and the East Asia are seeking access into Europe. I see the root cause as partly humanitarian/partly economic based.

How do you feel about the above situation?

NZ had a fair few western and eastern European and Chinese immigrants among others back when it started up. Due to the lack of easy travel and communication it seems they easily enough integrated.

But there gets a point where the speed of new arrivals is too fast for full integration, which results in pockets of nationalities residing side by side in the same country. NZ currently has net migration at a rate of 13 per 1,000 population (vs 3.4 for UK and US). Being a small country that rate ebbs and flows, being negative some years, but generally runs higher overall than the US and the UK. We have control over the rate of immigrants, and supposedly have 'high' standards for new arrivals, but we don't have control over the quality of the people leaving. So overall probably not a lot in the intellectual stakes changes.

I certainly have a fear (possibly irrational) that due to the population growth in the African and Asian countries that over time they will have a heavier presence in NZ, and due to the ease which immigrants can live, without being integrated, will result in a fractured country. Essentially a mini-world. I think it is good to bring new idea's from other cultures, however, those that move to a new country should generally adopt their new homes way of living, rather than trying to bring their entire way of life with them. It does get messy, as I also believe you should be thank-ful for your own heritage, and keep hold of that. Essentially, bring good idea's, but don't try and change things! A poor example, NZ generally is not religious, and I'm certainly not, so as bad as it was for a nutcase to go into a mosque I don't think there should have been any mosques in the first place.

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  #13 (permalink)
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sixtyseven View Post
How do you feel about the above situation?

About the humanitarian part I am of the view that
  • Some of the displacement was caused by the West meddling too much with Middle East geopolitics
  • I think we as EU have not anticipated that any political or humanitarian crisis in, say, Africa, would have a knock on effect on the EU. We should have foreseen it, and acted accordingly by working with the countries affected.
  • Either way, any proper refugee has a right to ask for and obtain asylum and I think this should naturally be how any civilisation responds to global crises

About economic migrants, i.e. those that move to another country in search of a better job/career/life etc., it's difficult for me to express an opinion.

I believe in the EU free-movement within EU member states, I think it has provided enormous benefits to all who have migrated to another EU state.

But should all people, including the ones coming from outside the EU, be allowed to enter? We certainly can't let everyone in. There has to be some immigration policy, either at EU level or at individual member state, that regulates such influx.

Having said that, one country where in recent years news about migrants was hitting the press every single day was Italy. People kept going in, on average 500 a day, every day.
One recent issue with Italy is low natality rate, and the president of the Italian equivalent of the Inland Revenue agency said himself that net contribution to government coffers was positive in the billions thanks to these migrants. This suggests that specific countries may benefit more than others. Again, Italy lamented however a lack of cohesive policy in the EU. Probably also for that reason people voted last year for a right-wing government with an anti-immigration stance, and not an isolated case in the EU.

I don't subscribe to the fears you mentioned about Western countries becoming ghettos to pockets of migrants. I have always believed that, looking over the very long term (and looking back, not to our immediate past, but going thousands of years ago) that migration has been a constant phenomenon worldwide, from the early people going from Africa to the North (or from South to North America), to the various empires extensions across the centuries.

In other words, it's always been there and probably always will be.

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This may be an individual preference but I don't feel threatened in terms of heritage or identity either. I never worry about what skin colour or religious belief would be predominant in 50-100-1000 years from now. Maybe it's a personal thing but I do worry more about whether the world as a whole will be better or worse, rather than who my next door neighbour is (just talking in general here, not suggesting I do and you don't).

More in general I would say that, as long as people treat each other the way they themselves would like to be treated, everybody should be entitled to freedom of expression, belief, etc., as long as they don't try to force their own views on on others.
This, for me, should always be the basis for any civilisation to thrive, whatever their roots.

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  #14 (permalink)
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sixtyseven View Post
How do you feel about the above situation?

NZ had a fair few western and eastern European and Chinese immigrants among others back when it started up. Due to the lack of easy travel and communication it seems they easily enough integrated.

But there gets a point where the speed of new arrivals is too fast for full integration, which results in pockets of nationalities residing side by side in the same country. NZ currently has net migration at a rate of 13 per 1,000 population (vs 3.4 for UK and US). Being a small country that rate ebbs and flows, being negative some years, but generally runs higher overall than the US and the UK. We have control over the rate of immigrants, and supposedly have 'high' standards for new arrivals, but we don't have control over the quality of the people leaving. So overall probably not a lot in the intellectual stakes changes.

I certainly have a fear (possibly irrational) that due to the population growth in the African and Asian countries that over time they will have a heavier presence in NZ, and due to the ease which immigrants can live, without being integrated, will result in a fractured country. Essentially a mini-world. I think it is good to bring new idea's from other cultures, however, those that move to a new country should generally adopt their new homes way of living, rather than trying to bring their entire way of life with them. It does get messy, as I also believe you should be thank-ful for your own heritage, and keep hold of that. Essentially, bring good idea's, but don't try and change things! A poor example, NZ generally is not religious, and I'm certainly not, so as bad as it was for a nutcase to go into a mosque I don't think there should have been any mosques in the first place.

I would say a little bit of me feels similar to you, we need to some how work with these other countries to encourage growth in these countries so these people have opportunities to become a NZ/USA etc etc. it seems like immigration is a double edged sword one side is great we get growth and people working to build a better country but on the other side there a groups that want to make the country they currently immigrated to into the country they just left either for political or religious reasons and to me thats not okay. You left your country to come to mine don't try and turn this country into the old because "most likely" ( big air quotes) you left your country for some negative reason and we don't want to bring that to where you migrate to.

There are parts of the USA that have a very heavy presence of sharia laws, that's not right. You can practice what ever religion you want or lack there of but it needs to be within the confines of OUR law not what you use to do.

and this to me i think will end up being a larger issue then it is now in maybe 20-50 years when there are more immigrants in this country.

-P

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