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Yet another mass shooting


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Yet another mass shooting

  #521 (permalink)
 
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learning0101 View Post
thanks I edited my response to you and removed the end, so that smart people like you would not miss the point being made.

Or because it made you look silly. You specifically implied if they couldn't use guns they would use 'rope, glass, and hammer' instead. Your (deleted) words not mine. We are specifically discussing "mass killings" here not just homicides. I agree that gangs that don't have guns fight with knives. If somebody is intent on killing somebody else there are many other ways. I just not so sure how that translates to mass killings. Obviously there have been rare mass knifings, and vehicles have been used (I know I know we should ban cars!), but the reason guns are used is because they are far more effective. A single knife can't kill dozens of people a minute. A car is a large and loud object. While not everybody can get out of the way of a car, many can. That brings us back to the issue that the problem is the guns as much as it is the people using them. It also explains why attacks like this are so much more common in the US than other developed nations. Everybody has disturbed people, not everybody has such easy access to guns. And there's lot of sensible regulation that could be brought in that doesn't involving banning all guns completely. Require insurance. Require license. Can't buy Ammo or Hunting Permits without proof of both, being an obvious one.

To me its quite clear that having the US's gun ownership rights has a cost. And one of those costs is the amount of children killed in school shootings. Some people are fine with that. Some people think the way to stop that is to turn our schools into fortified prison like buildings. (Of course if this really is just evil people wanting to kill people won't they just pick a new easier target. Should we also require churchs to hire armed guards for every on church site activity?). And some people think the amount of children killed in this country is ridiculous and want to at least discuss ways to stop it!

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  #522 (permalink)
 
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phantomtrader View Post
My life and my children are.

So important to you that you don't want to address the specific problem directly, just want to find a work around at the expense of somebody else? In the Uvalde case wasn't the problem that a teacher left a door propped open that should have been locked? Also how long it took the 'good guys with guns' to do something/anything. How would having an armed guard, metal detectors or any of the other excuses prevented this, or are we going to surround our schools with 10 ft walls and armed guard towers? And when people switch from guns to cars, because you know, "evil people will find a way", we also surround our schools with moats and or 4 high concrete anti-vehicular barriers.

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phantomtrader View Post
That's a lot of blabber. What about the children? Locking down schools is a lot easier than suffering through even a single tragedy like we just witnessed.

This is about common sense. Not your opinion as to how government should be run. Your "observations" are made from a pedestal of arrogance.

Maybe your life and your children aren't worth the effort or the money. My life and my children are. We will always differ on that.

You're making this personal about me. It's not. You're not going to win me over by bullying and insults. I'm merely trying to have a rational intelligent conversation. I'll look elsewhere.

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SMCJB View Post
So important to you that you don't want to address the specific problem directly, just want to find a work around at the expense of somebody else? In the Uvalde case wasn't the problem that a teacher left a door propped open that should have been locked? Also how long it took the 'good guys with guns' to do something/anything. How would having an armed guard, metal detectors or any of the other excuses prevented this, or are we going to surround our schools with 10 ft walls and armed guard towers? And when people switch from guns to cars, because you know, "evil people will find a way", we also surround our schools with moats and or 4 high concrete anti-vehicular barriers.


Easy. The shooter would have never had access to the school in the first place. The doors should be locked, a guard at the main entrance, alarms when someone tries to breach an entrance. This is a no-brainer.
You're equivocating about guns, cars, whatever. It's about security. That's it. Why do they have agents on airplanes, screening for passengers? Because we've been there done that without those security measures
and we know how that turned out.

So yeah, make all kinds of excuses. But at the end of the day, a big part of the problem would be solved with proper security at every school. Private schools have that security - why not public schools?

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  #525 (permalink)
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phantomtrader View Post
Easy. The shooter would have never had access to the school in the first place. The doors should be locked, a guard at the main entrance, alarms when someone tries to breach an entrance. This is a no-brainer.

You're equivocating about guns, cars, whatever. It's about security. That's it. Why do they have agents on airplanes, screening for passengers? Because we've been there done that without those security measures

and we know how that turned out.



So yeah, make all kinds of excuses. But at the end of the day, a big part of the problem would be solved with proper security at every school. Private schools have that security - why not public schools?

My quick two cents - here in Canada (especially in Toronto), that is strictly enforced. The schools are shut after they begin in the mornings. They quickly go in lockdown mode whenever something unpleasant happens inside / nearby the schools. This is regularly in the news as Toronto is seeing a spike of shootings nearby schools these days. That's why, news reports always mention the schools went into lockdown mode until police clears everything up.

Besides, they only allow staff and students to go inside in the mornings and not even parents are allowed to go inside to drop off their toddlers.

The fool who killed those innocent children shouldn't be allowed inside in the first place at all. No brainer.

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lightsun47 View Post
My quick two cents - here in Canada (especially in Toronto), that is strictly enforced. The schools are shut after they begin in the mornings. They quickly go in lockdown mode whenever something unpleasant happens inside / nearby the schools. This is regularly in the news as Toronto is seeing a spike of shootings nearby schools these days. That's why, news reports always mention the schools went into lockdown mode until police clears everything up.

Besides, they only allow staff and students to go inside in the mornings and not even parents are allowed to go inside to drop off their toddlers.

The fool who killed those innocent children shouldn't be allowed inside in the first place at all. No brainer.

And that's exactly my point. We're wasting our time and effort if we don't put school security first. Ignore security and guaranteed it will happen again.

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Thanks @phantomtrader for just ignoring pretty much everything I side and just repeating your point again. Addressing what you keep repeating, what you are calling for already exists! Quoting from NBC (was just the first thing that came up)* ....
Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District had doubled its security budget in recent years, according to public documents, in part to comply with state legislation passed in the wake of a 2018 school shooting in which eight students and two teachers were killed. The district adopted an array of security measures that included its own police force, threat assessment teams at each school, a threat reporting system, social media monitoring software, fences around schools and a requirement that teachers lock their classroom doors, according to the security plan posted on the district’s website.

It happened anyway.

Somehow — the account provided by authorities is not entirely clear — a high school dropout with no known criminal history was able to evade a district officer outside Robb Elementary School on Tuesday and enter a back door armed with a rifle.

The guard was already there. And it still happened!

@lightsun47 I live in Texas a few hundred miles away from where the Ulvade shooting happened. What you mention is exactly what we have in place locally ALREADY. I don't know about Ulvade but our local school district has its own police force with 40 unformed officers and 3 investigators serving 40000 students across 42 schools. Including 4 K-9 Handlers, 2 Narcotics experts and 1 Explosive expert!** YES this is the School District NOT the local police. (guessing that will surprise some non-Americans). Maybe we need to hire an army instead and since the bad guys have guns maybe we should give the good guys Armored Vehicles. Oh hang on our Police Forces already have things like that in their 'SWAT teams'.

Also @phantomtrader where does this end. No2 in attacks behind Schools has to be places of worship. The Buffalo shooting was in a grocery store. Should every single church, shop and I suppose public place have an armed guard and security fences?

* https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-security-plan-rcna30568
** https://www.springbranchisd.com/about/sbisd-police-department/join-sbisd-police

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SMCJB View Post
Thanks @phantomtrader for just ignoring pretty much everything I side and just repeating your point again. Addressing what you keep repeating, what you are calling for already exists! Quoting from NBC (was just the first thing that came up)* ....
Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District had doubled its security budget in recent years, according to public documents, in part to comply with state legislation passed in the wake of a 2018 school shooting in which eight students and two teachers were killed. The district adopted an array of security measures that included its own police force, threat assessment teams at each school, a threat reporting system, social media monitoring software, fences around schools and a requirement that teachers lock their classroom doors, according to the security plan posted on the district’s website.

It happened anyway.

Somehow — the account provided by authorities is not entirely clear — a high school dropout with no known criminal history was able to evade a district officer outside Robb Elementary School on Tuesday and enter a back door armed with a rifle.

The guard was already there. And it still happened!

@lightsun47 I live in Texas a few hundred miles away from where the Ulvade shooting happened. What you mention is exactly what we have in place locally ALREADY. I don't know about Ulvade but our local school district has its own police force with 40 unformed officers and 3 investigators serving 40000 students across 42 schools. Including 4 K-9 Handlers, 2 Narcotics experts and 1 Explosive expert!** YES this is the School District NOT the local police. (guessing that will surprise some non-Americans). Maybe we need to hire an army instead and since the bad guys have guns maybe we should give the good guys Armored Vehicles. Oh hang on our Police Forces already have things like that in their 'SWAT teams'.

Also @phantomtrader where does this end. No2 in attacks behind Schools has to be places of worship. The Buffalo shooting was in a grocery store. Should every single church, shop and I suppose public place have an armed guard and security fences?

* https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-security-plan-rcna30568
** https://www.springbranchisd.com/about/sbisd-police-department/join-sbisd-police

I don't care what NBC says. If the doors were LOCKED, even if there wasn't a guard, the shooter would have never gotten into the school. That school went through an entire drill months ago on this type of incident. They failed miserably when it came time for the real test.

Your exaggerations don't speak to very clear thinking. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that when you LOCK THE DOORS, nobody gets in without a struggle.

The police failed. The response failed. But if the DOORS WERE LOCKED, the shooter would have not gotten into the school.

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SMCJB View Post
Thanks @phantomtrader for just ignoring pretty much everything I side and just repeating your point again.


phantomtrader View Post
Your exaggerations don't speak to very clear thinking. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that when you LOCK THE DOORS, nobody gets in without a struggle.

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