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Yet another mass shooting


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Yet another mass shooting

  #431 (permalink)
 
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 WoodyFox 
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brach View Post
If you wish to demonstrate a meaningful numerical relationship, it's Math 101 buddy. Control for other factors.

Any reasonable person can see that factors other than "incidence of gun ownership" are probably dominant in Honduras, Venezuela and Swaziland.

You are absolutely, 100%, cherry picking.



And why would you leave out these countries? You use the the words "other than / other factors", could you explain.

Cherry picking is taking things out. You are dong this...I am including all.

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  #432 (permalink)
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According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the disproportional nature of gun possession during criminal offenses follows the earlier patterns based on age, sex, and race.

21.8% of male prisoners in state institutions, and 20.9% of male prisoners in federal institutions, possessed a firearm during their offense, compared to just 9.5% in state institutions and 6.6% in federal institutions for female offenders.

Regarding these firearms, 10.1% were purchased or traded at a retail source (such as a gun store or pawn shop). Just 0.8% were purchased at a gun show. 25.3% were obtained from an individual. 43.2% were obtained from street or underground markets, and 6.4% were obtained through theft. 6.9% were found at the location of the crime.

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  #433 (permalink)
 
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 brach 
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WoodyFox View Post
And why would you leave out these countries?

I already explained that.


Quoting 
You use the the words "other than / other factors", could you explain.

Sure. When there exist factors that better explain the "Y axis" than the one that is on your chart, those are the "other factors."


Quoting 
Cherry picking is taking things out. You are dong this...I am including all.

Cherry picking is including what you like, and excluding what you don't like. You can look at it either way. "Including all" and treating them all the same way is almost always a bad idea; a common ploy of charlatans. And, oh by the way, you didn't "include all."

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  #434 (permalink)
 
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brach View Post
I already explained that.



Sure. When there exist factors that better explain the "Y axis" than the one that is on your chart, those are the "other factors."



Cherry picking is including what you like, and excluding what you don't like. You can look at it either way. "Including all" and treating them all the same way is almost always a bad idea; a common ploy of charlatans. And, oh by the way, you didn't "include all."

Yes, Including all or treating them all...different things.

So since I am a charlatan and you are not.

What are the other factors you mention?... but do not disclose for removing 19 countries from the stats.

Is this just to make higher gun ownership and gun deaths per capita more pronounced?

You said other reasons to better explain the Y axis, what are they.

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  #435 (permalink)
 
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 SMCJB 
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Believe this lists all 52 states, so no allegations of 'cherry picking'.

More Guns = More Gun Deaths?



And no I don't think comparing the US to some of the most war torn, drug cartel controlled and unstable countries in the world is like for like. Even if you do include them the US becomes one of the worst in the world rather than the worst in the world. How proud we should be!

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  #436 (permalink)
 
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SMCJB View Post
Believe this lists all 52 states, so no allegations of 'cherry picking'.

More Guns = More Gun Deaths?



And no I don't think comparing the US to some of the most war torn, drug cartel controlled and unstable countries in the world is like for like. Even if you do include them the US becomes one of the worst in the world rather than the worst in the world. How proud we should be!

@SMCJB I do not disagree that more guns equals more likely hood... I just didn't think leaving out 19 countries gets to the root of the real problem.

Being mental health and behavior issues. (and no we should not be proud of this)

It still takes a human to pull a trigger and they only have 2 trigger fingers, not 120 per capita.

Higher crime rates countries (like the US) will of course be higher. This is behavioral.

This is exactly why I keep asking @brach the other reasons he mentions for excluding the 19 countries. I was trying to build my case.

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  #437 (permalink)
 
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Just gonna leave this here.



-P

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  #438 (permalink)
 
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The US is a world leader. Largest economy in the world, one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world, largest and most advanced military in the world, biggest open democracy, the list goes on and on. Why then when it comes to gun deaths, and mental health, do we compare ourselves to places like Venezuela, El Salvador & Honduras etc and not Australia, France, Germany, Japan & the UK. I agree it's not right that we focus on mass shootings and ignore the body count that builds up in Chicago weekend after weekend. I agree Mental Health plays a huge factor. I agree the media, and social media makes it all worse and not better. These are not valid excuses though, they just deflect from the situation that people are dieing and at a rate higher than most counties in the developed world. If the death rate of people driving cars was 10x greater than that our of pier countries, I assume somebody would ask why is that, and hopefully do something about it. Why then when it comes to gun deaths (or mental health if that is the route cause) do we do nothing but generate excuses or reasons why not to do anything?

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  #439 (permalink)
 
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SMCJB View Post
The US is a world leader. Largest economy in the world, one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world, largest and most advanced military in the world, biggest open democracy, the list goes on and on. Why then when it comes to gun deaths, and mental health, do we compare ourselves to places like Venezuela, El Salvador & Honduras etc and not Australia, France, Germany, Japan & the UK. I agree it's not right that we focus on mass shootings and ignore the body count that builds up in Chicago weekend after weekend. I agree Mental Health plays a huge factor. I agree the media, and social media makes it all worse and not better. These are not valid excuses though, they just deflect from the situation that people are dieing and at a rate higher than most counties in the developed world. If the death rate of people driving cars was 10x greater than that our of pier countries, I assume somebody would ask why is that, and hopefully do something about it. Why then when it comes to gun deaths (or mental health if that is the route cause) do we do nothing but generate excuses or reasons why not to do anything?

It's simple, the US is here to make money everything else comes second. You can debate this until we are red in the face and call it freedom or what ever else you want to but this country is all about money. Hell we left England over money and came over here because of the money/opportunities.

Its the same reason we don't have free health care, money money money.

Not that its not a big issue because it is but everyone in congress only cares about these shootings when they effect the right people, and the politicians can use these deaths as a way of connecting with there base. Its horrible that one persons death isn't a big deal but when it happens to someone else its a huge deal.. this country is so ass backwards we don't know what the hell is going on.

Keep your guns close and make that money so you can get the hell away from all this shit..... my eyes are set on a nice little island

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  #440 (permalink)
 
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SMCJB View Post
The US is a world leader. Largest economy in the world, one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world, largest and most advanced military in the world, biggest open democracy, the list goes on and on. Why then when it comes to gun deaths, and mental health, do we compare ourselves to places like Venezuela, El Salvador & Honduras etc and not Australia, France, Germany, Japan & the UK. I agree it's not right that we focus on mass shootings and ignore the body count that builds up in Chicago weekend after weekend. I agree Mental Health plays a huge factor. I agree the media, and social media makes it all worse and not better. These are not valid excuses though, they just deflect from the situation that people are dieing and at a rate higher than most counties in the developed world. If the death rate of people driving cars was 10x greater than that our of pier countries, I assume somebody would ask why is that, and hopefully do something about it. Why then when it comes to gun deaths (or mental health if that is the route cause) do we do nothing but generate excuses or reasons why not to do anything?

Couldn't agree more.

Our communities need a lifting up and we need more access to good mental health care. There is absolutely no reason for our failures, considering our potential.

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