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Yet another mass shooting


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Yet another mass shooting

  #301 (permalink)
 
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 SMCJB 
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MiniP View Post
The real kicker is now some states are allowing the people affected by these tragedies to sue and tack legal action against the gun manufactures like they are trying to kill or hurt people on purpose BUT no one wants to sue honda because some drunk hit 130 on the highway and killed a van filled with people.

Should point out guns (especially assault weapons) are actually designed to kill people, Honda's are designed to be transportation vehicles.

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  #302 (permalink)
 
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SMCJB View Post
Should point out guns (especially assault weapons) are actually designed to kill people, Honda's are designed to be transportation vehicles.

the weapons used are not assault weapons but rather the sporting version of such weapons. Assault weapon are two words commonly used to described anything that looks scary. Assault weapons are select fire weapons used to "assault" an enemy. The public cant easily obtain these weapons with out the proper paper work and not to mention they are thousands and thousands of dollars. The weapons that all these mass shootings have used are the sporting version. Assault is a verb there for the firearm it self can not assault anyone, YOU must do the assaulting, secondly the majority of deaths come from pistols/revolvers that when these bills/laws are put in place they don't address. So it goes back to my previous post if someone wants to do harm they will, in this case the future harm will most likely be done with a pistol. So some say limit the mag size for pistols... whats stopping someone from carrying 4 pistols they make holsters like this..... there will always be a way around the laws to hurt people if someone really wants to.

If my honda was strictly for transporting people why does it have a sport/race mode? Am i racing to my destination... that would be breaking the law.

It really all comes down to we enjoy having these things and we should be able to have them who are "you" to tell me what i can and can't have because some psycho did something horrible. You want 1000 hp street car go ahead, you want 40 ar-15's go ahead AS long as you legally can and aren't breaking the law.

-P

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  #303 (permalink)
 
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I was just making the point that in NZ they have a single mass shooting (first in 22 years) and within 6 days they bring in legislation to try and prevent further mass shootings. That is stark contrast to the US where mass shootings happen regularly and nobody does anything other than send prayers. Maybe your right that banning semi-automatic weapons wouldn't make any difference, but if that is the case, shouldn't we be doing something else instead not just nothing?* Unfortunately you are right there a lot of bad or unstable people out there, and if they are motivated they will find a way to hurt people, and in that situation anything can be a weapon.

I find it interesting that when you look at the vaccine debate, anti-vaxers are portrayed as enemies of society, endangering the greater good, and there's a very strong call to take their rights of choice away and force them to do something they don't want to. (It is legal in the majority of the US to choose not to have your child vaccinated). In the gun debate on the other hand, the opposite applies. As you said yourself "who are "you" to tell me what i can and can't have". (Even though I didn't say anything like that.)


*Maybe of interest, John Arnold, a Billionaire who made his fortune trading Natural Gas as founder of Centaurus, is currently funding research into gun violence. But that's a private philanthropic activity, not anything our elected officials are doing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabethmacbride/2018/08/31/hedge-fund-billionaire-takes-on-the-strangely-thorny-issue-of-gun-data/

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  #304 (permalink)
 
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SMCJB View Post
I was just making the point that in NZ they have a single mass shooting (first in 22 years) and within 6 days they bring in legislation to try and prevent further mass shootings. That is stark contrast to the US where mass shootings happen regularly and nobody does anything other than send prayers. Maybe your right that banning semi-automatic weapons wouldn't make any difference, but if that is the case, shouldn't we be doing something else instead not just nothing?* Unfortunately you are right there a lot of bad or unstable people out there, and if they are motivated they will find a way to hurt people, and in that situation anything can be a weapon.



I find it interesting that when you look at the vaccine debate, anti-vaxers are portrayed as enemies of society, endangering the greater good, and there's a very strong call to take their rights of choice away and force them to do something they don't want to. (It is legal in the majority of the US to choose not to have your child vaccinated). In the gun debate on the other hand, the opposite applies. As you said yourself "who are "you" to tell me what i can and can't have". (Even though I didn't say anything like that.)





*Maybe of interest, John Arnold, a Billionaire who made his fortune trading Natural Gas as founder of Centaurus, is currently funding research into gun violence. But that's a private philanthropic activity, not anything our elected officials are doing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabethmacbride/2018/08/31/hedge-fund-billionaire-takes-on-the-strangely-thorny-issue-of-gun-data/



Just to be clear when I said you I didn't mean you. I agree 100% something needs to be done I don't want to see anyone get killed more then the next guy. But to me this seems like a mental issues and unfortunately I don't have any idea how to fix that


-P


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  #305 (permalink)
 martinhunting 
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No other country in the world has ststistics s like these! The Us makes up around 5%of the worlds population but holds 31%of global mass shootings.
There are more than 393 million civilian-owned firearms in the United States, or enough for every man, woman and child to own one and still have 67 million guns left over.

3 months of 2019

Total Number of Incidents 11,087
Number of Deaths1 3,017
Number of Injuries1 5,214
Number of Children (age 0-11)
Killed or Injured1 112
Number of Teens (age 12-17)
Killed or Injured1 490
Mass Shooting2 62
Officer Involved Incident
Officer Shot or Killed2 61
Officer Involved Incident
Subject-Suspect Shot or Killed2 458
Home Invasion2 385
Defensive Use2 262
Unintentional Shooting2 320

Gun violence and crime incidents are collected/validated from 2,500 sources daily – incidents and their source data are found at the gunviolencearchive.org website.

Data Validated: March 22, 2019
Gun Violence Archive

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  #306 (permalink)
 sixtyseven 
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MiniP View Post
If someone wants to do harm they will use cars,home made explosives,knives, acid the list goes on and on.

50 in one go using knives, acid, or cars. Really?

The world has some distorted people. Make it harder for them.

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  #307 (permalink)
 
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sixtyseven View Post
50 in one go using knives, acid, or cars. Really?

The world has some distorted people. Make it harder for them.


In Nice a truck killed 86 people and injured 458.

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  #308 (permalink)
 
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martinhunting View Post
No other country in the world has ststistics s like these! The Us makes up around 5%of the worlds population but holds 31%of global mass shootings.
There are more than 393 million civilian-owned firearms in the United States, or enough for every man, woman and child to own one and still have 67 million guns left over.

3 months of 2019

Total Number of Incidents 11,087
Number of Deaths1 3,017
Number of Injuries1 5,214
Number of Children (age 0-11)
Killed or Injured1 112
Number of Teens (age 12-17)
Killed or Injured1 490
Mass Shooting2 62
Officer Involved Incident
Officer Shot or Killed2 61
Officer Involved Incident
Subject-Suspect Shot or Killed2 458
Home Invasion2 385
Defensive Use2 262
Unintentional Shooting2 320

Gun violence and crime incidents are collected/validated from 2,500 sources daily – incidents and their source data are found at the gunviolencearchive.org website.

Data Validated: March 22, 2019
Gun Violence Archive

I would find it hard to say that a website called gunviolence isnt slightly bias and is most likely inflating those numbers. I checked for the 2018 FBI report and its not out yet so we will have to look at the 2017/16 until it comes out.
1) the problem with your stats is it doesn't take into account the amount of self inflicted wounds caused by guns
according to the CDC ( couldn't find the fbi report but will look later) 22,938 people kill them selves each year by guns https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

2) we can now see that handguns are the number one type of firearm used to kill
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

3) the types of bills that are trying to be passed are nothing more then emotional ideas on how to fix a problem and most people don't even understand what the real problem is. 2017 403 people were killed by a rifle, again there will be some self inflicted deaths in this number so maybe 200-300 actual murders.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12
take a look at the states that have some of the strictest gun laws and they end up having most of the murders (besides texas)

These laws/bills aren't going to do anything except hurt the law abiding citizens.

No i didn't pick previous years to fit what im trying to get across this was the first info i came across this morning.

-P

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  #309 (permalink)
 
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sixtyseven View Post
50 in one go using knives, acid, or cars. Really?

The world has some distorted people. Make it harder for them.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

read this....
just because you hear about "assault rifles" in the media more doesn't mean these types of objects aren't used
-P

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  #310 (permalink)
 
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I really hesitated to go into this, because the polarized feelings on all sides, in the US at least, have made guns a political and personal issue and feelings tend to run high. Also, I recognize that @MiniP and many others who favor these kinds of firearms are decent people whom I would enjoy having a beer (or a few ) with. This is not personal either.

Nevertheless....

1. I do not use the term "weapon" for anything with a purpose other than what we were taught in the Army -- to shoot people -- since a "weapon" is, by definition, used to kill people, not deer. That's why our targets looked like people, not deer. That's what war is about. It is not hunting, nor is it self-defense. I enjoyed the firing range and I like shooting, always have. But military weapons are for war, which is about killing people. (I know, most people who own an AR15 will never kill anyone. And I like it too, or I liked the M16 anyway. It's still a military style weapon, and that's still what it's best at.)

2. Is the AR15 a military style weapon? Pretty close. From Wikipedia:

"The M16 rifle, officially designated Rifle, Caliber 5.56 mm, M16, is a family of military rifles adapted from the ArmaLite AR-15 rifle for the United States military. The original M16 rifle was a 5.56mm automatic rifle with a 20-round magazine.

"In 1964, the M16 entered U.S. military service and the following year was deployed for jungle warfare operations during the Vietnam War.[1] In 1969, the M16A1 replaced the M14 rifle to become the U.S. military's standard service rifle.[17][18] The M16A1 improvements include a bolt-assist, chrome-plated bore and a 30-round magazine." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle

I trained on the M16A1, lineal descendant of the AR15. (Yeah, it was 1968 and 69. That long ago.) It would do just fine as a killing weapon if fired only semi-auto (one shot per trigger-pull) instead of full auto. On semi-auto, it's not that far from an AR15. You can pull that trigger fast, and often.

2. Everyone has, and should have, a lot of freedom to do as they like. But your freedom to swing your fists around, for example, ends anytime it gets close to my nose. I think your right to own any kind of firearm you like ends when availability of that firearm allows unstable or bad people to shoot up a large number of other people.

3. No one needs a hunting rifle, for example, that holds more than three or so rounds at a time. But three rounds, or a bolt-action, isn't real suited to mass murder. Large magazines and semi-auto fire have been proven to work real well.

4. Everyone has a right self-defense. But as someone who trained with military weapons, I don't want every random civilian (nor, for that matter, some random veteran either) who thinks he's being threatened to have one. What could possibly go wrong? That thought should scare the shit out of everybody. Would I own a rifle or handgun at home for self-defense? I don't, but sure. Not high-fire, and not one I carried around. Also, probably it would never be used outside of target practice on a range. I've never needed one so far, and I've been around a long time now.

5. I think high-round, repeated-fire (I mean semi-auto, which is plenty fast) firearms are great fun (and I'd include semi-auto handguns too) and I have enjoyed them outside of the military. They might be fine in some places and times. Today, I think there is a clear danger that needs to be rationally addressed, and it may mean that someone's otherwise legitimate right to do as he pleases has to take a back seat to addressing a real danger. And yes, I know guns don't kill people. Nuts with guns do. The same nut with a bolt-action hunting rifle or a revolver or small-magazine handgun could still kill people, but fewer. And much less easily.

I expect to get some genuine hate for posting this. I don't care. Somehow in this country it became an emotional cultural and political issue whether you are "pro" or "anti" guns. Meanwhile, when American nuts slaughter people, there is meaningless talk about "thoughts and prayers" and people shake their heads about how you can't do anything about people who are insane. And all attempts to do something are stopped. (Is there money involved? Well, duh.)

But in New Zealand, which has a strong hunting culture, they didn't hesitate to just say they'll remove the weapons (and that's the right word) from circulation, and keep them out of the hands of the nuts. You can't kill as many people nearly as fast with a low-magazine deer rifle. Or a knife. Or really, with anything else.

I don't know if we should (or can, realistically) do the New Zealand solution in the US. But if there's no effort to have a solution, if everything is just about thoughts and prayers and "too bad some people are insane, nothing can be done," then nothing will be done and there will be no change.

I understand Wyatt Earp made people check their guns when they came into Dodge. They thought it was safer that way. So do I. For the record, I am not particularly "anti" or "pro" guns. I wouldn't normally think of guns as that big an issue, and I have enjoyed them at times in my life. But things have gotten pretty far from normal. This is not about likes or culture or politics, it's about public safety.

End of rant. Probably no one will think any differently than they did before reading this. That's a big problem too. If we can't talk about it, we can't solve it.

Bob.

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