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Yet another mass shooting
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Yet another mass shooting

  #21 (permalink)
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

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  #22 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Yes.

Bob.

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  #23 (permalink)
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I edited my previous post, to take out some personal pomposity.

I think that everyone here is of good will, and that this is ultimately true of the country as well. Therefore, no matter how things may look at any one time, I think that eventually a good resolution will be achieved.

But it really is a problem right now, and will be until then, whatever that resolution is.

Peace.

Bob.

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bobwest View Post
But it really is a problem right now

If so, what about the 99% of violent crime that isn't school shootings by deranged young males? I mean, nine people, yes that's awful, but that's a typical weekend in Chicago.

The mass shootings that get all the attention represent a tiny portion of all violent crime in this country, and your chances of being in one are infinitesimally small. In fact gun homicides in general, according to the Pew Center, have decreased nearly 50% since 1993, as of a few years ago. And most gun deaths (not homicides, just deaths) are by suicide.

In most violent crime, there is some kind of relationship between perpetrator and victim, or at least the circumstances of their meeting are not totally chance (like a drug deal). But it's only when about five or more innocent people are killed by a crazy stranger do people start wringing their hands and talking about solutions, and honestly I think a lot of it is just window dressing. Why do we assign so much importance to these random, unlikely events? And I do it too--it was the Virginia Tech shooting that motivated me to start carrying a gun and get training in how to shoot a pistol.

Don't get me wrong, these shootings are awful, but they are highly random and quite frankly not the biggest problem, not even close statistically, if you want to talk about reducing gun deaths in this country. For these reasons (and others), I'm skeptical when people want to use events like this to advance gun control laws.

Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me.
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  #25 (permalink)
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Quoting 
I am all for background and even mental screening

Pointless if you continue to allow "private sales" exempt from all laws and checks.

Inletcap View Post
Guns don't kill people, people with guns do. With all the guns in circulation no laws will stop anyone from getting one. I could drive to a city and buy a gun illegally in a couple hours and go apeshit in a crowd. As a concealed weapons permit holder and daily carrier of a firearm I will tell you this~ You want me standing next to you when some lunatic goes off as I will likely be your only saving grace. If you do not feel that sense of responsibility to protect your own wellbeing and that of others around you, that is your call; but I will bet you would thank me for saving your life or a loved ones with my gun and have no problem with the fact I was sitting next to you "packing".

I know this is the rallying cry for everybody who carries guns to justify it but in reality this is a very rare occurrence. The news is NOT full of stories of people who are saved from a crazy by somebody with a CHL

I had an interesting conversation with somebody (maybe even here at BMT/gfutures.io but I can't find it) where a pro-gun advocate was making the argument about protecting his family. The truth is your family is more likely to get hurt/killed by a drunk driver or a texting driver than any situation where you havinig a gun could help them. If the pro-gun group, spent half as much effort on preventing dui/dwi/texting as they do protecting their gun rights the US would be a considerably safer place. But we all know that won't happen.


Devil Man View Post
Aside from that, maybe we should have at least one police officer in every school...children are the most vulnerable and they need to be safe. If Police is not an option, how about we hire our jobless vets who are combat seasoned and have that 6th sense to know when something just isn't right. We can easily justify the costs as their training would be minimal given their prior service and experience with firearms.

How do we pay for that? Your talking about hiring hundreds of thousands of people. Maybe a tax on guns, or ammo or CHLs?


bobwest View Post
At least something should be done to make it hard for people who have bad records to get their hands on guns. Even that has not been possible to do.

Because it's so easy to get a gun, even legally, without having to go through the checks.


bobwest View Post
It is absolutely wrong that we simply shrug and say "We can't do anything about it," when people shoot kids. Neither politics, nor political philosophy, nor love of guns, nor love of freedom, should allow that kind of indifference. "Indifference" is the right word, when all avenues for agreement and action are blocked. The status quo is the only possible outcome, which equals indifference to the problem.

This is the only major country where this happens, and it happens literally all the time.

I enjoy a good gun conversation. I was brought up in a country that doesn't have guns so I maybe not surprisingly I find the US's lack of gun policy amazing. Even more amazing is what @bobwest says's here. The US is one of the few places these senseless killings happen so regularly and its meet with indifference. People really seem more concerned about the gun laws than the deaths these senseless shootings bring. I'm not sure what the solution is, and maybe gun control isn't the solution, but surely something needs to be done to stop this.


Pariah Carey View Post
But it's only when about five or more innocent people are killed by a crazy stranger do people start wringing their hands and talking about solutions, and honestly I think a lot of it is just window dressing. Why do we assign so much importance to these random, unlikely events?

There are more people killed in these random unlikely events then there are by terrorism in the US.

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  #26 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
There are people who don't need to buy a firearm. But the moment you give away your rights your life is over. At that moment take the mark and get in the back of the line. Tyranny is here.

It is for sure viral in USA and some other countries...

Those who are a bit farther away may see it more pragmatic **:
There seems only one way to get rid of this armed disease.

Just give away as many weapons to people - without registering (as is today).
BUT
1) Take ALL ammunition out of the markets...
Even around the country.
2) Give people who need to shoot as a hobby the chance in some protected places where
ammunition is given, controlled and on exit every not shot piece has to be returned.

That works well - and will help people with gun passion to follow their hobby.
For sure it prevents from evil done by some drugged persons without thinking to shoot
innocent people.
Of course this takes ONE generation at least to step into new levels.
One could start today at least.

GFIs1
who believes the same could be done on army level as well...
Why should soldiers play Thief and Police in real life? There are well done games today...

**Things listed here work in Europe and especially Switzerland - where every soldier has his military weapon
at home - quite well...
But one could learn - yes?


Last edited by GFIs1; October 5th, 2015 at 10:15 AM.
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  #27 (permalink)
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SMCJB View Post
There are more people killed in these random unlikely events then there are by terrorism in the US.

I am sorry but this stat that has been passed around and this quote is utter BS. These mass shootings are acts of terrorism. And until the are treated as such they will continue.

Living very close to Fort Hood I have seen the governments failure to classify this acts as terrorism. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/09/us/at-fort-hood-wrestling-with-label-of-terrorism.html

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tturner86 View Post
I am sorry but this stat that has been passed around and this quote is utter BS. These mass shootings are acts of terrorism. And until the are treated as such they will continue.

Living very close to Fort Hood I have seen the governments failure to classify this acts as terrorism. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/09/us/at-fort-hood-wrestling-with-label-of-terrorism.html

ter·ror·ism
noun
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.


Not sure about Fort Hood but not sure anybody would classify the Oregon, Sandy Hook etc killings as politically motivated.

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New York Times :- Oregon Killer Described as Man of Few Words, Except on Topic of Guns

Their headline not mine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/us/chris-harper-mercer-umpqua-community-college-shooting.html

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SMCJB View Post
ter·ror·ism
noun
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.


Not sure about Fort Hood but not sure anybody would classify the Oregon, Sandy Hook etc killings as politically motivated.

Terrorism | Define Terrorism at Dictionary.com

noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Especially doesn't imply only political motives.

I am sure we can agree that these acts are meant to terrorize?

Terrorize | Define Terrorize at Dictionary.com

verb (used with object), terrorized, terrorizing.
1. to fill or overcome with terror.
2. to dominate or coerce by intimidation.
3. to produce widespread fear by acts of violence, as bombings.

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