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Yet another mass shooting


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Yet another mass shooting

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  #201 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Quoting 
A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in Chinese school between March 2010 and late 2012 left at least 25 dead and some 115 injured.

I have been thinking about trying to catch that "falling knife" known as the price of oil, now down to 27.62 AH for WTI.

But I am gradually deciding that is a great way to...............GET STABBED!

And if a lot of people try to catch that "falling knife", it could result in a financial "mass stabbing."


Howard Gold article
T. Rowe Price New Era’s Shawn Driscoll says the price for a barrel of oil could drop into the teens

Fund manager who?s been right on oil has a depressing new prediction - MarketWatch

This guy's column, Howard Gold, has been has been right on the price of oil for the last 6 months i.e. calling it down, down, down!

He called it on May 6, 2015, going down to the 30s, when it was $62 a barrel.


Howard Gold article May 6, 2015
Oil in the $30s? It may happen as a ‘short squeeze’ ends

Oil in the $30s? It may happen as a ?short squeeze? ends - MarketWatch

And now Howard Gold seems to think that the price of oil may be heading for the "teens!"

And that may go for the price of oil companies too.....also going down, down, down.

In the last year, Chesapeake (CHK) down from 21 to 3, Continental (CLR) down from 53 to 16, and even Exxon (XOM) down from 93 to 76.

But nobody knows for sure and there's always the chance of some kind of BLACK SWAN event in the ME where there are a whole lot of wars and hostility around a whole lot of oil.

But all I know is that Howard Gold has been DEAD ON about the price of oil for the last 6 months.

And those "good looking deals" on oil and oil stocks may not look so good after all.

So, I'd say......FADE Howard Gold AT YOUR OWN RISK...... of getting STABBED by that "falling knife!"

But, on the other hand, oil and oil stocks may be the BUY OF A LIFETIME!

Who knows?

I sure don't!

Edit: And the head of CLR says oil will be $60 by the end of the year.


Quoting 
Shale billionaire says oil to rebound to $60 a barrel by year-end

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/shale-billionaire-says-oil-to-rebound-to-60-a-barrel-by-year-end-2016-01-14

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  #202 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Quoting 
Pakistan attack raises tough question: should teachers shoot back?

....four Islamist militants attacked Bacha Khan University in Pakistan's troubled northwest on Wednesday, killing more than 20 people.

"I was worried about the students, and then one of the militants came after us," Shakil added. "After repeated requests, the police threw me a pistol and I fired some shots at the terrorists."....

Some hailed them as heroes, as the country digested an attack which bore similarities to the massacre, in late 2014, of 134 pupils at an army-run school in Peshawar, about 30 km (19 miles) from where this week's violence occurred.

Others questioned whether teachers should be armed, as many are, because it goes against the ideals of the profession.

Pakistan attack raises tough question: should teachers shoot back? | Reuters

Should teachers shoot back at terrorists?

Why not?

Teachers shouldn't have to run and hide and cower for their life.

Sounds to me like a bunch of dang...................DEMOCRATS!

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  #203 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Grodon
....and there's always the chance of some kind of BLACK SWAN event in the ME where there are a whole lot of wars and hostility around a whole lot of oil.

Yep and that may have had something to do with the big bounce in oil today.


Quoting 
Saudi Air Strikes on Yemeni Oil Port; ISIS Attacks Libyan Oil Port

Saudi Air Strikes on Yemeni Oil Port; ISIS Attacks Libyan Oil Port | OilPrice.com

Hitting petroleum trucks and a pipeline to a port that has been closed since 2014.


Quoting 
Saudi Arabia launched airstrikes on targets in Yemen on Thursday, killing nine people and destroying trucks that deliver petroleum products for domestic consumption.......

ISIS also targeted oil pipelines that travel from the Amal oilfield to the port of Es Sider, which is located near Ras Lanuf..........The ports of Ras Lanuf and Es Sider have been offline since late 2014.

So it looks like a phony bounce to me.

But who knows?

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  #204 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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  #205 (permalink)
 xplorer 
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On "Guns don't kill people, people do", this comedian said it best I think...


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  #206 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Quoting 
On "Guns don't kill people, people do", this comedian said it best I think...

That clown is obviously not familiar with guns when he refers to "M-16 machine guns.

And I highly doubt he is a military veteran since he wears make up, eye shadow, and lipstick.


Quoting 
Army tightens rules on hair, tattoos, makeup

Men will be prohibited from wearing cosmetics, to include nail polish.

Army tightens rules on hair, tattoos, makeup | Army Times | armytimes.com

Women soldiers can wear cosmetics but not men.


Quoting 
Women in the armed forces not only use makeup and do their hair...

Military Women Beauty Secrets and Tips - Female Soldier Makeup

And I doubt that clown has ever picked up a gun much less fired one because he is.........SCARED TO DEATH OF GUNS!

Like most people who do not support the right to keep and bear arms.

Guns are inanimate objects and are not inherently good or bad.

It all depends on how they are used.

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  #207 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Four people are dead and others are injured after a shooting in Saskatchewan, Canada, that included gunfire at a high school, police and a witness said. A suspect is in custody, police said.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau earlier told reporters in Davos, Switzerland, that five were killed. Royal Canadian Mounted Police Chief Superintendent Maureen Levy blamed the earlier report of five deaths on a developing situation, and said four deaths are confirmed.

Four dead in worst Canada school shooting in decade, suspect caught | Reuters

Canada shootings: Four killed in Saskatchewan - BBC News

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  #208 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Quoting 
Four people are dead and others are injured after a shooting in Saskatchewan, Canada, that included gunfire at a high school

I wonder how many gun control laws that guy broke.


Grodon 1/17
Canada is having a correction, particularly in oil producing Alberta. ......

But the criminals and terrorists don't have any "restricted firearms" and they'll just steal the container for the "stored" guns.

Another great example of why gun control only effects law abiding citizens.

And another slaughter in a "gun free zone" which means "free kill zone."


Quoting 
The legality of self-defence with the use of a firearm has been controversial in Canada, as many gun owners who had used their firearms against intruders found themselves getting charged with storage violations and homicide...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation

In Canada, it may be better to let yourself be killed than to shoot back.

That way you won't get charged with violating any gun control laws!

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  #209 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Quoting 
He Was a Pistol-Wielding Chemistry Teacher Students Called ‘The Protector.’ And When the Taliban Invaded His School, He Fought Back.

He Was a Pistol-Wielding Chemistry Teacher Students Called ?The Protector.? And When the Taliban Invaded His School, He Fought Back. | TheBlaze.com

At least this guy in Pakistan died fighting back.

Not running, hiding and cowering like a dang.............DEMOCRAT!


Grodon
Teachers shouldn't have to run and hide and cower for their life.

Sounds to me like a bunch of dang...................DEMOCRATS!


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  #210 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Or just a child, as with many mass shooters. Reach for your quick answer, not a man`s answer.

A lack of empathy does not necessarily stem from inherent rudeness. Even kind, well-intentioned mentally healthy person can lack empathy sometimes. Empathy is simply a learned skill that some people practice more often than others.

Back to something approximating relevant to the topic of this thread:

Why Mass Shootings Keep Happening
Are we helpless to stop mass shootings? Is anyone even trying to stop them? The good news is that the answers are No and Yes. The bad news: The person loading up hasn't gotten the news.
"

Extract from long article..Edit: with Andre Simons (video link), Unit Chief at Behavioral Analysis Unit, FBI ' (if paywalled, google a few lines so google is referrer).

"What these people need," says Andre Simons, "are alternatives to violence. They are often unable or unwilling to articulate to themselves that there are alternatives to violence. They have shut that door. Our job is to open other doors for them so that they don't go through the last door they think they have left."

"The people who do these things are not fully functioning adults—we're all manchildren," says the manchild who once led two other manchildren down the street dressed in black and armed with machetes and military-grade weapons. "All of the authority in the world won't help that kid. What they'll do is just ostracize him even more. What he wants is for someone to accept him for who he is."

It is another place where the former threat and the threat-assessment professional find themselves in agreement—where the former threat begins to sound like a threat-assessment professional. At this very moment in America, someone, probably but not necessarily a man, is arming himself and planning to kill as many people as possible in a public spectacle. That is a matter of certainty. Can he be stopped? Yes—but that is almost a matter of faith. He can be stopped if he can be identified. He can be stopped if he can be assessed. He can be stopped if he can be managed. He can be stopped if both Andre Simons and a young man nicknamed Trunk Full of Guns get what they want—if someone sees him, someone notices him, someone wonders who he is and what he's doing, even if he's anonymous, even if he's just walking to a bus stop in the rain."

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  #211 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Grodon
In Canada, it may be better to let yourself be killed than to shoot back.

Sounds just like this guy from Rory's extract and the rest of the dang...........DEMOCRATS!


Rory extract
"What these people need," says Andre Simons, "are alternatives to violence. They are often unable or unwilling to articulate to themselves that there are alternatives to violence.

But they are WRONG.

"Articulate to themselves"?

Excuse me, if you follow that Democrat philosophy, you will be..........DEAD RIGHT!


NRA
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

The Democrats need to WAKE UP and QUIT WHINING and.............QUIT DREAMING!

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  #212 (permalink)
 xplorer 
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Grodon View Post
Like most people who do not support the right to keep and bear arms.


Ah.... the right to bear arms...

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  #213 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


xplorer
Ah.... the right to bear arms...

You mean the English right to wear SHORT SLEEVED SHIRTS!

Very funny.

But the UK has NO WRITTEN CONTSTITUTION.

So the English have NO RIGHTS WHATSOEVER that cannot be taken away in the morning by the government.

That's NOT FUNNY!


Quoting 
Rights which would disappear if human rights legislation were abandoned are:
•The right to life – protects your life, by law. The state is required to investigate suspicious deaths and deaths in custody.
•The prohibition of torture and inhuman treatment – you should never be tortured or treated in an inhuman or degrading way, no matter what the situation.
•Protection against slavery and forced labour – you should not be treated like a slave or subjected to forced labour.
•The right to liberty and freedom – you have the right to be free and the state can only imprison you with very good reason – for example, if you are convicted of a crime.
•The right to a fair trial and no punishment without law – you are innocent until proven guilty. If accused of a crime, you have the right to hear the evidence against you, in a court of law.
•Respect for privacy and family life and the right to marry – protects against unnecessary surveillance or intrusion into your life. You have the right to marry and raise a family.
•Freedom of thought, religion and belief – you can believe what you like and practise your religion or beliefs.
•Free speech and peaceful protest – you have a right to speak freely and join with others peacefully, to express your views.
•No discrimination – everyone’s rights are equal. You should not be treated unfairly – because, for example, of your gender, race, sexuality, religion or age.
•Protection of property, the right to an education and the right to free elections – protects against state interference with your possessions; means that no child can be denied an education and that elections must be free and fair

ALL of these rights would be wiped from the statute books

https://orderoftruth.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/uk-the-government-want-to-take-away-your-human-rights-and-they-think-it-is-a-good-idea/

America has a WRITTEN CONSTITUTION to protect individual rights that the government CANNOT TAKE AWAY.

England needs the same thing, including the RESET BUTTON for all Constitutional rights.....the right to keep and bear arms.

And that does NOT mean SHORT SLEEVED SHIRTS!

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  #214 (permalink)
 xplorer 
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Grodon View Post
America has a WRITTEN CONSTITUTION to protect individual rights that the government CANNOT TAKE AWAY.

Grodon

I don't want to either hijack the thread for political purposes or go off-topic but, forgive me, that statement is laughable.

Just look at what's happened to the 4th amendment and the illegal spying that has been going on and has come to light only since 2013. Not only in the US but globally. And the UK is even worse.

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  #215 (permalink)
 Seahn 
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Grodon View Post
America has a WRITTEN CONSTITUTION to protect individual rights that the government CANNOT TAKE AWAY.

You are pretty naive if you really believe that.

The government and corporations routinely all but wipe their asses with the constitution. The history of this country is full of examples of the constitution being trampled. All it takes is willing politicians and judges, happens all the time especially these days.

All it takes is a little fear mongering to have most people in this country willingly give up their constitutional rights, the politicians, judges and the corporations and elite that fund them know it and do it.

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  #216 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Big Mike View Post
We have a worldwide audience here, I'm curious what the rest of the world thinks about the craziness and normality of mass shootings in America.

(Rory's highlight) Its in the less moderated section but stlll @Big Mike 's original post.

The thread had a sad but educational purpose however now it is disintegrating.

Sigh.. I vaguely thought ignoring him might work but it never works.. I would not bother @xplorer

Grodon has has only ever posted in this thread (on FIO) but he is part of the furniture at BullBear Talk (from a 2 second Google). He seems to be bravely striking out for new territory in seek of fresh endorphin hits.

View Profile: Grodon - Bull & Bear Talk
Search Results - Bull & Bear Talk

Likes Given 0 - received 726.

Nothing intelligible regarding actual trading, maybe a smokescreen for his real purpose.

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  #217 (permalink)
 xplorer 
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Rory View Post
(Rory's highlight) Its in the less moderated section but stlll @Big Mike 's original post.

The thread had a sad but educational purpose however now it is disintegrating.

Sigh.. I vaguely thought ignoring him might work but it never works.. I would not bother @xplorer

Grodon has has only ever posted in this thread (on FIO) but he is part of the furniture at BullBear Talk (from a 2 second Google). He seems to be bravely striking out for new territory in seek of fresh endorphin hits.

View Profile: Grodon - Bull & Bear Talk
Search Results - Bull & Bear Talk

Likes Given 0 - received 726.

Nothing intelligible regarding actual trading, maybe a smokescreen for his real purpose.

Fair enough Rory. I will give my 2c as European on the topic.

From my standpoint the US have a history both proud and tragic. The majority of Americans seem to be proud of the traditional right to bear arms. As an outsider I am in no position to criticize them for that. And if I lived in a country where virtually everyone (there are exceptions) can own a gun, hell I would probably get one myself.

All I know is, if you look at the statistics, certainly the US is not on top of the gun-related deaths by country. But it's certainly not in good company. In terms of countries by firearm-related death rate (I'm looking at homicides per 100,000 people), before the US we have 13 Central/South American countries, Philippines, Jamaica and South Africa.
This makes the US the top country in the developed world with gun-related homicides. Not a record I would be too proud of.

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  #218 (permalink)
 TheTradeSlinger 
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xplorer View Post
Fair enough Rory. I will give my 2c as European on the topic.

From my standpoint the US have a history both proud and tragic. The majority of Americans seem to be proud of the traditional right to bear arms. As an outsider I am in no position to criticize them for that. And if I lived in a country where virtually everyone (there are exceptions) can own a gun, hell I would probably get one myself.

All I know is, if you look at the statistics, certainly the US is not on top of the gun-related deaths by country. But it's certainly not in good company. In terms of countries by firearm-related death rate (I'm looking at homicides per 100,000 people), before the US we have 13 Central/South American countries, Philippines, Jamaica and South Africa.
This makes the US the top country in the developed world with gun-related homicides. Not a record I would be too proud of.

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  #219 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Rory
Grodon has has only ever posted in this thread (on FIO) but he is part of the furniture at BullBear Talk

Thanks Rory.

I thanked ttturner86 for counting and reading all my posts on this blog.


Grodon 1/14
Thanks tt for counting and reading all 10 of my posts

Now I'm going to have to thank you for counting and reading all of my posts on BullBear.

Way to go, Rory.

I hope you are learning a lot.

Cuz you've sure..............GOT A LOT TO LEARN!

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  #220 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Quoting 
“An active shooter has just been reported in building #26 at Naval Medical Center San Diego,” Tuesday morning’s Facebook post reads. “All occupants are advised to run, hide or fight.

?Run, hide or fight? active shooter reported at San Diego?s Naval Medical Center | WTVR.com

Run, hide or.........FIGHT?

Must be a Republican in charge.

If the Democrats were in charge, the troops would be advised to "run, hide, or...............COWER!

But at least we are...............MAKING PROGRESS!

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  #221 (permalink)
 michaelleemoore 
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Groden, your penchant for stereotyping folks seems to know no bounds. Your understanding of the Constitution, on the other hand, seems somewhat limited. And your lack of empathy for those killed in mass shootings -- and for their families -- appears non-existent. It's as if the threat posed by shooters with weapons is somehow less than the threat posed to your misunderstanding of the Constitution.

And finally, so I'm clear: I'm a Democrat. I own three guns. I know how to use them. I hunt my own meat so I am not subject to the processed meat industry. If you want to give me grief, I can guarantee you that I will not "cower." And I will be happy to defend your right to your opinion, even though I respectfully disagree with it.

Now, back to trading.

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  #222 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


michaellemoore
And finally, so I'm clear: I'm a Democrat. I own three guns.

Way to go Michael.

But you are the exception that proves the rule.


Grodon
If the Democrats were in charge, the troops would be advised to "run, hide, or...............COWER!

And it looks like the whole San Diego "active shooter" scenario was PHONY!


Comment
ONE person reported 3 loud noises in a parking structure. NO-one has been injured,

Active Shooting: NMCSD Tells Personnel to ?Run, Hide or Fight? » Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Probably cooked up by some.........HYSTERICAL DEMOCRAT!

But the response was NOT PHONY.

Let the children RUN, HIDE, AND COWER.

For adults, the response to "active shooters" must always be..........FIGHT!

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 tturner86 
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26 posts and not one about trading... on a forum about trading. https://futures.io/search.php?searchid=3554615

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 Itchymoku 
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Sometimes I wish I could thank my own post. A post on a thread not about trading and a post not about anything at all. A post that simply celebrates life amidst gloom of so much death. Lets hope that mass shootings go out of style as there hasn't been one in quite sometime.

R.I.P. Joseph Bach (Itchymoku), 1987-2018.
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  #225 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Quoting 
FBI: Man Plotted Machine Gun Attack on Masonic Temple

FBI: Man Plotted Machine Gun Attack on Masonic Temple - ABC News

What's wrong with that headline?

Well, the guy's name was Samy Mohamed Hamzeh.

And he planned the attack to show "nobody can play with Muslims".

So the headline should read, "Islamic Terrorist Plotted Machine Gun Attack on Masonic Temple."

But it took the FBI a week to figure out that San Bernardino was not "workplace violence."

So it'll probably take them another week to figure out this was an attack by an.........Islamic Terrorist!

Sheesh!

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  #226 (permalink)
 Grodon 
Tulsa OK
 
 
Posts: 28 since Jun 2015


Grodon 1/14
The Shanghai Composite is about 2900 now, down from over 5,000 in August.

And the comparison chart with 1929 says it could go to 2000, another 30% down or a total of 60% down since August.

It's getting there.

Shanghai down to 2672 tonight.


Quoting 
SHANGHAI 2672.45 -77.33 -2.81%

It's already down 50% from the over 5,000 high six months ago.

That's what I call a crash.

But the Chinese stock market is not widely owned in China.


Quoting 
Chinese Stock Markets Do Not Matter

First, Chinese citizens do not rely on stock investing for their retirement (they mostly rely on their children).

Second, Chinese firms do not raise capital via the stock markets (they mostly rely on banks loans, which is why four Chinese banks are among the largest in the world).

Forbes Welcome

But still that is already a HECK OF A CRASH and it looks like it really could go to 2000.

And already a wasted $500 Billion in market bail outs by the Chinese gov't, which have all failed.


Quoting 
After three intervention efforts requiring US$500 billion by China’s central bank and government over the past six months to stabilize the stock implosion, it has become clear that China authorities cannot prevent the markets from imploding

China-Canary in the Global Economy Coalmine? ? print version | Jack Rasmus

I feel sorry for those people over there.

But I would hate to be the last one to sell.

And I'll bet a lot of Chinese feel the same way.

So there could be an even faster CRASH now!

Since the Chinese people are disarmed there won't be any mass shootings.

But could be some MASS STABBINGS.


Quoting 
A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People's Republic of China began in March 2010..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010%E2%80%9312)

I think we are watching a real financial tragedy unfold.

But maybe the Chinese government can still turn it around with more bail outs.

DREAM ON!

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  #227 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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  #228 (permalink)
mrgufx
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Big Mike View Post
We have a worldwide audience here, I'm curious what the rest of the world thinks about the craziness and normality of mass shootings in America.

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the public are either dumbed down or dumbed up, it all depends on what the current administration/government wants the public to think.

freedom doesn't come on the back of a cheerios packet (fill in the details and you will receive instant freedom - within 14 days), and nature doesn't tolerate the weak.

don't throw away your freedoms, constitutions and birth rights on the whims of some despicable left wing (democrat), self loathing fantasists.

the world needs a strong america,...and keep your guns too.

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  #229 (permalink)
 ElChacal 
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I don't know if this was posted before but here it goes. It's a great video imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX4qUsgHa4Y

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  #230 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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ElChacal View Post
I don't know if this was posted before but here it goes. It's a great video imo.

Just reposting as the hyperlink was bad



Its well thought out video and accurately explains the US issue as both a problem of exceptionally high lethality of gun related crime peculiar to the US plus ridiculous availability and unskilled gun owners.

As someone from Rep, of Ireland who lived in the the UK a lot too I know no adults who have been affected by guns there. Although I have relatively few US friends and acquaintances I know three who died by gun suicide, another's 15 year old shot accidentally through the wall by a neighbor (also committing suicide and somehow missed, I'm not joking)...

Its the gun suicides that worry me more than anything. Rarely do guns give a second chance.

Literally just today I had to help a very distressed American friend out who was about to be arrested over an unpaid/unaffordable fine because her cat got lost and the local animal shelter decided to crush her underfoot. A nice woman with no record, working two jobs and who was genuinely not negligent but the county knew they could extort her. In Europe this would simply be regarded as racketeering by officials but as people are truly horrible to each other in the US... no wonder shoot to kill is the norm?

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  #231 (permalink)
 Money1017 
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This thread has been sort of silent for a bit so i thought I would add my two cents.

1.In America there is an inverse relationship with the number of guns in society and total gun related deaths.
2.We have our guns to protect us from our government tyranny.
3.Fully automatic weapons are used in less than 1.5% of shootings.
4.The second amendment has no limitation for our right to bare arms.
5. Does the fork make you fat? Do guns kill people or do people kill people? Does Chicago have some of the strictest gun laws in the U.S.A,(YES),does it have the one of the highest gun related death rates in the U.S.A,(YES).


HERE ARE SOME QUOTES


Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of
arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave.

Andrew Fletcher(1653-1716)




A free people ought to be armed.

George Washington (1732-1799)
Boston Independent Chronicle, Jan. 14th 1790




The right to buy weapons is the right to be free

A. E. van Vogt
The Weapon Shops of Isher, 1951




The people have a right to keep and bear arms.

Patrick Henry (1736-1799)
(Elliott, Debates at 185)




In a polity, each citizen is to possess his own arms, which
are not supplied or owned by the state.

Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)



The great object is that every man be armed.
Everyone who is able may have a gun.

Patrick Henry (1736-1799)
Virginia Convention - Ratification of Constitution - 1788




That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage
or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there.

George Orwell (1903-1950)




Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting
for death, any minute, any second.

Aron Bielski (b. 1927)
in Nechama Tec's "Defiance: The Bielski Partisans..."


As i was saying i would like to revitalize this dialog as it is an important subject.

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 GFIs1 
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Money1017 View Post
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of
arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave.

Andrew Fletcher(1653-1716)

Are you living still in those ol' days?
No progress since?

GFIs1

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  #233 (permalink)
 Money1017 
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GFIs1 View Post
Are you living still in those ol' days?
No progress since?

GFIs1


No, there has been progress ,but absolute power corrupts absolutely, this has held to be true throughout history.

More gun control gives power to the government, "Don't fear guns, fear the government that fears your guns".

Think about Paris, those people were killed because they were not allowed to have guns. The criminals will always get their hands on guns while the good law abiding citizens will be without protection.

Think of Chicago where they have one of the lowest gun ownership rates with one of the highest gun related murder rates.



When you take all this is mind do you really think they should impose stricter gun laws. I believe in the unregulated second amendment right to bear arms.

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 Forexoil 
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Money1017 View Post
This thread has been sort of silent for a bit so i thought I would add my two cents.

1.In America there is an inverse relationship with the number of guns in society and total gun related deaths.
2.We have our guns to protect us from our government tyranny.
3.Fully automatic weapons are used in less than 1.5% of shootings.
4.The second amendment has no limitation for our right to bare arms.
5. Does the fork make you fat? Do guns kill people or do people kill people? Does Chicago have some of the strictest gun laws in the U.S.A,(YES),does it have the one of the highest gun related death rates in the U.S.A,(YES).


HERE ARE SOME QUOTES


Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of
arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave.

Andrew Fletcher(1653-1716)




A free people ought to be armed.

George Washington (1732-1799)
Boston Independent Chronicle, Jan. 14th 1790




The right to buy weapons is the right to be free

A. E. van Vogt
The Weapon Shops of Isher, 1951




The people have a right to keep and bear arms.

Patrick Henry (1736-1799)
(Elliott, Debates at 185)




In a polity, each citizen is to possess his own arms, which
are not supplied or owned by the state.

Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)



The great object is that every man be armed.
Everyone who is able may have a gun.

Patrick Henry (1736-1799)
Virginia Convention - Ratification of Constitution - 1788




That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage
or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there.

George Orwell (1903-1950)




Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting
for death, any minute, any second.

Aron Bielski (b. 1927)
in Nechama Tec's "Defiance: The Bielski Partisans..."


As i was saying i would like to revitalize this dialog as it is an important subject.

very interesting quotes

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  #235 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Why not show us some charts? Start a journal for yourself?

I think to most traders reading your cut-and-pastes, a simple phrase.. "correlation does not equal causation" comes to their minds. Traders who make money have fantastic BS filters.

Also I presume you have a Larry the Cable Guy album? (he is funny). I imagine thats where you got 'right to bare arms?" from?

Money1017 View Post
4.The second amendment has no limitation for our right to bare arms.

This is a trader's forum, show us the quality of your judgement trading then some may consider your views. Its not a free country, everything has a cost

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  #236 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
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NYTimes :- One Week in April, Four Toddlers Shot and Killed Themselves

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/us/guns-children-deaths.html

During a single week in April, four toddlers — Holston, Kiyan, Za’veon and Sha’Quille — shot and killed themselves, and a mother driving through Milwaukee was killed after her 2-year-old apparently picked up a gun that had slid out from under the driver’s seat.

4+1 = 5

I searched but I couldn't find the article where 5 people lawfully saved/defended themselves from criminals or terrorists with their own guns that weekend.

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 GFIs1 
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Best comment on the above article:



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  #238 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Katie Couric has produced what should be an interesting documentary showing next Sunday at 8pm (on whatever epix is).

Home | Under the Gun

I'm sure she will be slandering those harmless "inanimate objects" like Undertheforkmovie I expect (a better name for her last documentary "Fed Up"). I'm only eating sandwiches and burgers since the NRA's trolls declared that forks are making people fat.

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Rory
 
 
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Rory View Post
Katie Couric has produced what should be an interesting documentary showing next Sunday at 8pm (on whatever epix is).

Home | Under the Gun

I'm sure she will be slandering those harmless "inanimate objects" like Undertheforkmovie I expect (a better name for her last documentary "Fed Up"). I'm only eating sandwiches and burgers since the NRA's trolls declared that forks are making people fat.

So I finally got to watch this documentary last night. Pretty good, nothing much new but the history of the NRA is good and how they got pawned by a professional lobbyist in the late 70s. The movie "Thank you for smoking" is always worth a look too and a sneakier way to educate your true believer friends and family as they won't see it coming


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 Cloudy 
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I'll just make my 2c response to the thread topic. The world is an overpopulated economic mess currently. There was probably more gun violence in the wild west era and the world wars combined than the current modern supposedly civilized eras. The country is under siege from bankster-corporatized controlled government and media where a revolution of some form seems imminent. So of course I am for the right to bear arms even if there are a few marginalized disenfranchised individual loonies who go postal.

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 tturner86 
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Rory View Post
Katie Couric has produced what should be an interesting documentary showing next Sunday at 8pm (on whatever epix is).

Home | Under the Gun

I'm sure she will be slandering those harmless "inanimate objects" like Undertheforkmovie I expect (a better name for her last documentary "Fed Up"). I'm only eating sandwiches and burgers since the NRA's trolls declared that forks are making people fat.

Katie Couric takes responsibility for 'misleading' part of gun violence doc - May. 30, 2016

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Rory
 
 
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Yeah, so annoying and unnecessary. It stuck in my mind that the big pause was wrong, the pawn arguments are so practiced no way would a bunch of people be dumbfounded.

Michael Moore (director not our local star) does stupid high-ground losing stuff like that too sometimes. She is an egit.

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 tturner86 
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Rory View Post
Yeah, so annoying and unnecessary. It stuck in my mind that the big pause was wrong, the pawn arguments are so practiced no way would a bunch of people be dumbfounded.

Michael Moore (director not our local star) does stupid high-ground losing stuff like that too sometimes. She is an egit.

Everyone has a bias, everyone has an agenda.

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 Itchymoku 
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 rleplae 
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Orlando nightclub shooting: police confirm 'mass casualties' and gunman dead | US news | The Guardian

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 puma 
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I hope the similarities to the Paris attacks are obvious to many.

I also hope, that the American public and youth culture will react less absurdly than what we saw in France.
An absurd reaction would be:
being attacked by terrorists and the 1st topic discussed are the merits of gun-control.

You can not love them away.

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UpsideDown
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puma View Post
I hope the similarities to the Paris attacks are obvious to many.

I also hope, that the American public and youth culture will react less absurdly than what we saw in France.
An absurd reaction would be:
being attacked by terrorists and the 1st topic discussed are the merits of gun-control.

You can not love them away.

I think the absurd reaction is to hold vigils and change your facebook profile pic, thinking it will somehow change things.

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""Its important that we bring both of the parties together, the more we go to the left, the more we go to the right.. I believe in what President Eisenhower said "Politics is like the road, the left and the right represents the gutter and the middle is drive-able.""

Arnold Schwarzenegger, 2016 NBC interview.

I've always like Eisenhower on balance. Dwight D. Eisenhower Quotes - BrainyQuote

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 Itchymoku 
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Ironically we're living in the most peaceful time in the history of the world from what the numbers say, not the news.

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 Big Mike 
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Thoughts are with the families of the Dallas police department

Sent from my phone

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 SMCJB 
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Texas Open-Carry Laws Blurred Lines Between Suspects and Marchers
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/us/texas-open-carry-laws-blurred-lines-between-suspects-and-marchers.html

Two men who were armed and a woman who was with them were detained, fueling an early, errant theory by the police that there was more than one gunman.

Mayor Mike Rawlings of Dallas suggested in an interview on Sunday that, in the wake of the attack, he supported tightening the state’s gun laws to restrict the carrying of rifles and shotguns in public.

“There should be some way to say I shouldn’t be bringing my shotgun to a Mavericks game or to a protest because something crazy should happen,” said Mr. Rawlings, a Democrat. “I just want to come back to common sense.”

The state’s open-carry culture, the mayor said, had imperiled people on the streets of Dallas. “This is the first time — but a very concrete time — that I think a law can hurt citizens, police and not protect them,” he said, adding that he was not anti-gun and that he owned a shotgun himself. “I think it’s amazing when you think that there is a gunfight going on, and you are supposed to be able to sort who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.”

and
The Dallas police chief, David O. Brown, described to CNN’s “State of the Union” on Sunday the amount of confusion the armed protesters initially caused.

He said the event had attracted “20 or 30 people” who “showed up with AR-15 rifles slung across their shoulder.”

“They were wearing gas masks,” Mr. Brown said. “They were wearing bulletproof vests and camo fatigues, for effect, for whatever reason.”

When the shooting started, “they began to run,” he said. And because they ran in the middle of the shooting, he said, the police on the scene viewed them as suspects. “Someone is shooting at you from a perched position, and people are running with AR-15s and camo gear and gas masks and bulletproof vests, they are suspects, until we eliminate that.”

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 Itchymoku 
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  #253 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
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Saw on FB today, an eye opener perhaps for some.

Personally I like guns, I go to the range when I can. I'm not a liberal nor a conservative but I am pretty rigid on things like not letting the tail (lobbies and fringe crazies) wag the dog. "Creeping normalcy' aka 'boiled frog syndrome' does lot of damage to society, sometimes some perspective helps I recon?


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 SMCJB 
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Referencing an old conversations... I believe the quotes are in context, apologies if they are not...

lancelottrader View Post
Why is there this assumption that everyone who owns a gun is some bumbling fool that's going to shoot himself by accident or someone else? There are many people who take gun ownership seriously and go to the range..plus practice defensive measures. This notion of everyone being incompetent with guns is absurd. I have yet to see anyone on this thread refute my assertion that almost all gun violence in this country is carried out by criminals, gang members, drug dealers and occasional lone psychos.


SMCJB View Post
I'm not sure who alleged any of things that you are claiming or how what your saying effects the conversation. All the CHL owners I know are all very competent with guns and I do not feel unsafe around them.


Pariah Carey View Post
That pretty much flies in the face of everything you've been saying this whole thread, doesn't it? Guns are dangerous, homes with guns in them are more dangerous, the armed citizen good guy is a myth, the gun's more likely to be stolen or used against its owner, etc. So I'm a little confused at this point.

I know this is a TV show and may not be 100% representative or objective but what really scares me about guns, and why I think we need gun control, isn't because of all the CHL owners but this...

Rory View Post
Saw on FB today, an eye opener perhaps for some.

Personally I like guns, I go to the range when I can. I'm not a liberal nor a conservative but I am pretty rigid on things like not letting the tail (lobbies and fringe crazies) wag the dog. "Creeping normalcy' aka 'boiled frog syndrome' does lot of damage to society, sometimes some perspective helps I recon?



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 SMCJB 
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FiveThirtyEight.com, Daily Digits, Thursday, Jan. 5, 2017

22 percent
A study by researchers at Northeastern University and Harvard School of Public Health interviewed 1,613 adult gun owners in 2015 and found that 22 percent of owners who had gotten their newest firearm within the previous two years obtained it without a background check. [ Annals of Internal Medicine]

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 SMCJB 
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The Hidden Gun Epidemic: Suicides

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/09/opinion/the-hidden-gun-epidemic-suicides.html

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 SMCJB 
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Either a lot of people out there with bad intentions, or a lot of stupid people, or both!

USA Today :- TSA finds record 3,391 guns at checkpoints in 2016

TSA finds record 3,391 guns at checkpoints in 2016

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Rory
 
 
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SMCJB View Post
Either a lot of people out there with bad intentions, or a lot of stupid people, or both!

USA Today :- TSA finds record 3,391 guns at checkpoints in 2016

TSA finds record 3,391 guns at checkpoints in 2016

Both I expect, I guess some have so many they forget where they all are.

I was joking with a friend about getting into the bulletproof bedsheet business, logically if many are afraid of their shadows.. and just found this video.

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 Pariah Carey 
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Today is the five-year anniversary of the Newtown, CT school shooting. I remember that day, and the days afterward. To the country it felt like a small scale Sept. 11, to those in Newtown it was Sept. 11.

I'm on record here in the forum as being an avid gun owner. Always will be, unless I one day move somewhere they're not allowed. But my attitude toward guns has changed, I think because of the shootings that occurred earlier this year, and also because (unlike five years ago) now I'm a father.

It's a complicated situation. I try to understand both sides of the issue. It's unfair to penalize the 99% of lawful gun owners with onerous, burdensome gun control legislation that may or may not work. And if a deranged person wants to kill a bunch of people, they'll find a way.

But something is fundamentally wrong with our society when children are murdered in their classrooms at school, or mothers and babies are killed worshipping at church, and basically nobody does a damn thing about it. Our society (or the majority for political purposes) has responded by saying, "We'll bear that cost. It's worth it." I don't know. I suppose I've taken that stance previously without really saying it, but I no longer can.

But what can be done? There are already so many guns in circulation. And politically, it's well-nigh impossible. I'm 43 and I wouldn't be surprised if there is never any meaningful gun control in my lifetime.

I understand that most gun violence is between people who know each other, or is the result of drug or gang crimes. Those are very different than the random mass shootings that get all the attention. But the latter kind shock the conscience so much, they are so unbecoming and unacceptable for a developed world leader like the U.S.

And it's not just a mental health problem. It's not enough to just blame "crazy people." From the little bit I've read on the subject, most mentally ill people are not prone to violence.

I don't know what it'll take. Everyone knows that any day now we'll have another random mass shooting. I bet somewhere out there is a guy with the goal of being America's first triple digit fatality mass shooter. Actually I do know what it'll take: a lot more deaths, a lot more people burying their loved ones and children. Then maybe people will change their attitude.

Many times when I drop my little girl off at school I think, "today could be the day. The day a deranged man shoots his way in, and no one can stop it."

It's not possible to take the guns away, and I don't think they should. If you want to own a firearm, including the military-style ones used in these shootings (I have several) you should. But the process to get one should be harder.

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 SMCJB 
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I came here to highlight the Parkland, Florida mass school shooting that happened yesterday and saw this post by @Pariah Carey. I don't know how I missed it as I'm subscribed to the thread but this was the first time I have seen it. I've sparred with Pariah in this thread numerous times but must now tip my hat to you. I think your post is excellent and I'm a little surprised that it didn't generate more posts here. I think being able to see both sides of an argument is very valuable and wish people in general would be more open minded in their discussions about most things.

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 GFIs1 
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thx @Pariah Carey for the statement and change in thinking

Of course the ceremonial "shooting - prayers - walk on..." is not the way to go.
Why are you or other US citizens collecting weapons like stamps?

As long in USA you can buy a military semi-automated weapon @ 18 years - but a beer you can not before age of 21...
then we do not have to discuss. Point

My proposal: Take ammunition totally out of the markets. If you need to go for training then sell it controlled at the training facilities. Not used bullets of bought ammunition need to be left behind.

As a Swiss guy I am forced like every other male inhabitant of the country to go to military service. From 20 to 40 you need to be at service for nearly a year in total. You take your weapon at home during 20 years. As well as the ammunition in a sealed box. Every year you need to go for a shooting training. At every repeating week you need to show your sealed ammunition. Of course every soldier is forced to keep the weapon in a safe place - separated from the ammunition.
That easy. I am happy to have ended this uncivil service. As you may know - Switzerland is number 2 after USA with total weapons per inhabitant. But we never had such unbelievable mass shootings ever here.

I read in the newspapers (source not @ hand) that in USA 3% of the people own more than 80% of all US guns.

Think about it...
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 blb014 
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Has anyone seen the video games kids have been playing for the last ten years or so? Call of duty, black ops, These games are a far cry from duck hunt 30 years ago.

It desensitizes these kids to shooting people, their brains are not fully formed yet and they are playing these games nonstop. Can’t blame the games but I think helps it normalize shooting people to a young kid that is already mentally ill

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 iantg 
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A writer on Kimmel pretty much nailed it. Kimmel writer fires off scathing tweets at senators who accept NRA contributions - Feb. 15, 2018

In the analytical world there is no such thing as art, there is only the science you know and the science you don't know. Characterizing the science you don't know as "art" is a fools game.
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 blb014 
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GFIs1 View Post
thx @Pariah Carey for the statement and change in thinking

Of course the ceremonial "shooting - prayers - walk on..." is not the way to go.
Why are you or other US citizens collecting weapons like stamps?

As long in USA you can buy a military semi-automated weapon @ 18 years - but a beer you can not before age of 21...
then we do not have to discuss. Point

My proposal: Take ammunition totally out of the markets. If you need to go for training then sell it controlled at the training facilities. Not used bullets of bought ammunition need to be left behind.

As a Swiss guy I am forced like every other male inhabitant of the country to go to military service. From 20 to 40 you need to be at service for nearly a year in total. You take your weapon at home during 20 years. As well as the ammunition in a sealed box. Every year you need to go for a shooting training. At every repeating week you need to show your sealed ammunition. Of course every soldier is forced to keep the weapon in a safe place - separated from the ammunition.
That easy. I am happy to have ended this uncivil service. As you may know - Switzerland is number 2 after USA with total weapons per inhabitant. But we never had such unbelievable mass shootings ever here.

I read in the newspapers (source not @ hand) that in USA 3% of the people own more than 80% of all US guns.

Think about it...
GFIs1

That is not a nonstarter though, the right to bear arms is written in the bill of rights in the US constitution. Just as Freedom of Speech it is an essential right of every American.

I’m am for measured gun control also, limiting assault rifles but in many states especially in the south that is political nonstarter for politicians

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 SMCJB 
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GFIs1 View Post
As long in USA you can buy a military semi-automated weapon @ 18 years - but a beer you can not before age of 21...

In the US, drinking beer is considered more dangerous than owning guns, serving in the armed forces when we are at war, having children with no means to care for them, and voting in elections.


blb014 View Post
Has anyone seen the video games kids have been playing for the last ten years or so? Call of duty, black ops, These games are a far cry from duck hunt 30 years ago.

It desensitizes these kids to shooting people, their brains are not fully formed yet and they are playing these games nonstop. Can’t blame the games but I think helps it normalize shooting people to a young kid that is already mentally ill

I agree with your point, but these games are sold worldwide, not just in the US.


blb014 View Post
That is not a nonstarter though, the right to bear arms is written in the bill of rights in the US constitution. Just as Freedom of Speech it is an essential right of every American.

And that black people only count as 3/5th of a white person.

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 olobay 
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Keep your guns. But why do you need assault rifles? Nobody is using muskets in mass shootings, the guns that were in use when the 2nd amendment came to pass.


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 SMCJB 
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olobay View Post

So true. I really don't understand why the pro-gun lobby can't even acknowledge that.

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 artemiso 
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SMCJB View Post
And that black people only count as 3/5th of a white person.

Yeah I don't understand constitutional originalism and textualism.

Most people who namedrop the Second Amendment don't even know what it says or put it in historical context. The larger reason that James Madison pushed for the Second Amendment was because he too had to run a tight election race for the House, and had to make a campaign promise, because slave owners in his home state of Virginia were afraid that northerners would take away their rights or that their slaves would revolt.

Obviously, there's no slave ownership rights to protect today, much less in Virginia which has become a Democratic hotbed. And today the ability to form a state militia and overthrow a tyrannical federal government rests more on Facebook access than gun ownership, as we've seen in the Arab Spring uprisings. Reminds me of 1:10 here:





I'm entirely for civil liberties, and feel that people who actually care about the Second Amendment should by extension be more concerned about the FCC regulating their internet access.

Having lived in very different countries, I feel the fundamental problem is that the general population has become only reactive to tragedy. The political argument for stronger regulations on gun ownership should have nothing to do with a recent mass shooting, ensuring that other people don't experience the same sadness, protecting our children in schools, or the number and type of victims. It should simply be: the Second Amendment has always been BS even if no one pops crazy and mows down a classroom of people, and rights aren't inalienable at the individual level, they can only be inalienable at the level of the social contracts we form with people around us.

Part of the reason for Israel's military success is that it is ingrained in every person that it only takes a few minutes for a homemade rocket to cross the width of the country. Part of Switzerland's success is that they know there's a certain price to pay to stay neutral with a very heterogenous population. Hong Kong deals with nationalism, Singapore deals with a lack of natural resources. Most part of the population begrudgingly accepts compromises of individual freedoms with these issues in mind. They make do with no gun ownership, mandatory draft, high taxes, immigration and globalization, government oversight, whatever it is to protect the known future, not the past. None of them need another tragedy to get the political critical mass to put in place the appropriate laws.

What these countries/territories have that are different from the U.S. is not that they don't already have 300M guns in circulation, what they have is better social science education, and what we should be afraid of is that the current level of pre-tertiary education won't replenish our population with the political critical mass that we need to safeguard the nation's sustainability.

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 rickjames 
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Agree completely with previous posts that gun control is a political non-starter in the USA...but 2nd Amendment says nothing about ammunition, so make it VERY DIFFICULT to obtain and regulate it to the max.

If he were alive today and asked his opinion of the NRA, Mark Twain would probably utter his famous quote:

"We have the best politicians money can buy."

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 GFIs1 
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blb014 View Post
Has anyone seen the video games kids have been playing for the last ten years or so? Call of duty, black ops, These games are a far cry from duck hunt 30 years ago.

It desensitizes these kids to shooting people, their brains are not fully formed yet and they are playing these games nonstop. Can’t blame the games but I think helps it normalize shooting people to a young kid that is already mentally ill

Well - kids are playing ego shooter games since decades...

Around the world...

Could you explain WHY mass shootings mostly happen just only in USA?
And already 15 events in US SCHOOLS THIS year - huh?

This has nothing to do with 2nd amendment - sorry!

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 GFIs1 
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Example: You are frequenting (as US citizen) every second day a MacDo shop, every day a Starbucks - except Sunday
and every 3rd day a Subway shop...
Of course there are many possibilities in each category. Count for your own - please.

Do you know how many Weapon Shops are in USA comparing with those eating shops mentioned above?

Have a look:


There are MORE weapon stores in USA than Mac Donalds, Starbucks and Subway shops TOGETHER!

Think about - a weapon does mean more in USA than something to eat - as US citizens are not cooking themselves anyway.

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 LukePoga 
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You can predict with 100% accuracy an American’s stance on 10 entirely diverse topics just by asking them one question.

That alone is shocking and should give you pause to examine yourselves.

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 blb014 
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GFIs1 View Post
Well - kids are playing ego shooter games since decades...

Around the world...

Could you explain WHY mass shootings mostly happen just only in USA?
And already 15 events in US SCHOOLS THIS year - huh?

This has nothing to do with 2nd amendment - sorry!

GFIs1

I don't think so, When I was playing the atari and NES in my dorm in the 80's they weren't any these types games around.

POV shooter games Call of duty in (2003 looked it up) and they get more realistic every year. Columbine was 1999 and the shootings are happening are more frequently. It is no excuse but these teenage boys live and breathe these type games, at least my 16 nephew does.

There are mass shootings around the world, more frequently in the US.

How did protect citizens while limiting someone else freedom that's tough. I would be for enhanced background checks waiting periods, but there are more 300 million + guns in America so getting yours hands on weapon would take little effort. Assault rifles ban sure there are estimated 10 millions plus of those though

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 blb014 
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LukePoga View Post
You can predict with 100% accuracy an American’s stance on 10 entirely diverse topics just by asking them one question.

That alone is shocking and should give you pause to examine yourselves.


I think you find that gun ownership spans the gambit liberal, conservative democratic, republican.

I notice one post earlier made a several blanket statements regarding someone that supports gun ownership and received several likes. I think everyone wants try to classify people or identity politics, It contributes to the problem polarizing people.

I know it is hard because that is the way our brains are design to work, to classify things and people. But I think you find someone that supports gun ownership can be a democrat that adamantly supports Net Neutrality, and gay rights like myself.

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 LukePoga 
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blb014 View Post
I think you find that gun ownership spans the gambit liberal, conservative democratic, republican.

I notice one post earlier made a several blanket statements regarding someone that supports gun ownership and received several likes. I think everyone wants try to classify people or identity politics, It contributes to the problem polarizing people.

I know it is hard because that is the way our brains are design to work, to classify things and people. But I think you find someone that supports gun ownership can be a democrat that adamantly supports Net Neutrality, and gay rights like myself.

gun ownership would definitely span many people. but i see that as a red herring. if you ask about tighter gun control, which is what people are actually debating, you will get partisan answers.

are you saying there is a debate about whether people should be able to own guns at all? thats pretty extreme!

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 blb014 
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LukePoga View Post
gun ownership would definitely span many people. but i see that as a red herring. if you ask about tighter gun control, which is what people are actually debating, you will get partisan answers.

are you saying there is a debate about whether people should be able to own guns at all? thats pretty extreme!

The post I responded to mentioned "take ammunition of the market"
A gun has no use without ammo other than a paper weight and would essential limit someone ability to bear arms ergo the second amendment.

The historical setting for the second amendment does have meaning, during a time period when America was formed from a tyrannical ruling authority. Does that have meaning today? You betcha, imagine the US government imposing tyrannical rule on people with 300+ million weapons. Well good luck with that

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 LukePoga 
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blb014 View Post
The post I responded to mentioned "take ammunition of the market"
A gun has no use without ammo other than a paper weight and would essential limit someone ability to bear arms ergo the second amendment.

The historical setting for the second amendment does have meaning, during a time period when America was formed from a tyrannical ruling authority. Does that have meaning today? You betcha, imagine the US government imposing tyrannical rule on people with 300+ million weapons. Well good luck with that

i see. i guess gun and ammo are interlinked. so in reference to ammunition, is someone suggesting to remove all ammo from sale?

and even if noone is proposing that, are you are indicating that you want not just 'some' ammo, but as much ammo as you want, in case of a civil war?

just FYI, this civil war argument, if that is the base of your stance on gun control, is actually a good example of what i was saying earlier where it actually does split 100% by democrat/republican.

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 artemiso 
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blb014 View Post
Does that have meaning today? You betcha, imagine the US government imposing tyrannical rule on people with 300+ million weapons. Well good luck with that

Have you seen Syria? That's how assault rifles and significant foreign intervention fares against conventional, aerial bombardment. Our federal government has, at its disposal, thermonuclear warheads, cruise missiles, aircraft equipped with radar and infrared evasion, unmanned weaponized drones, none of which an AR-15 is effective against.

I agree with your sentiment and would suggest instead that we should allow private ownership of Patriot missile systems. A Patriot missile also makes it a lot more difficult for a mentally unstable person to kill a whole classroom of children, because you can't just drive a Patriot battery to a school without alerting law enforcement; you need at least $2M to buy one; it actually requires proper operator training; and it's easier to regulate legal ownership of it. Moreover, it's completely safe to keep a Patriot missile system at home in your backyard where it belongs, and no one should stop you from going hunting with a Patriot missile or using one for self-defense.

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 blb014 
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artemiso View Post
Have you seen Syria? That's how assault rifles and significant foreign intervention fares against conventional, aerial bombardment. Our federal government has, at its disposal, thermonuclear warheads, cruise missiles, aircraft equipped with radar and infrared evasion, unmanned weaponized drones, none of which an AR-15 is effective against.

I agree with your sentiment and would suggest instead that we should allow private ownership of Patriot missile systems. A Patriot missile also makes it a lot more difficult for a mentally unstable person to kill a whole classroom of children, because you can't just drive a Patriot battery to a school without alerting law enforcement; you need at least $2M to buy one; it actually requires proper operator training; and it's easier to regulate legal ownership of it. Moreover, it's completely safe to keep a Patriot missile system at home in your backyard where it belongs, and no one should stop you from going hunting with a Patriot missile or using one for self-defense.

Imagine asking a policeman or a soldier to go round up 300+million legal weapons in the US without complete destroying the whole country. I think they would say take this job and shove it.

Syria has been ruled by Assad with a heavy hand and doubt that was very little gun ownership among the common people (looked it up decree, Number 5 limits weapons, ammunition and fire crackers to governmental bodies.)

Look what happen during the rise of the communist countries USSR, first thing they did was make it illegal and round up the weapons. The wanted total control of their people. That's history lesson that doesn't need to be repeated

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 blb014 
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LukePoga View Post
i see. i guess gun and ammo are interlinked. so in reference to ammunition, is someone suggesting to remove all ammo from sale?

and even if noone is proposing that, are you are indicating that you want not just 'some' ammo, but as much ammo as you want, in case of a civil war?

just FYI, this civil war argument, if that is the base of your stance on gun control, is actually a good example of what i was saying earlier where it actually does split 100% by democrat/republican.

Not a civil war. The framers were very smart having lived through tyranny, and they knew that without the ability for someone to protect himself and property, it would leave open the possibility of authoritarian ruler coming along.

The first step the communists took were to round up the guns and make it illegal. The government has total control without any fear of repercussions

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 LukePoga 
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blb014 View Post
Not a civil war. The framers were very smart having lived through tyranny, and they knew that without the ability for someone to protect himself and property, it would leave open the possibility of authoritarian ruler coming along.

The first step the communists took were to round up the guns and make it illegal. The government has total control without any fear of repercussions

that makes sense, but just flagging the relevance today of having militia. isnt the point of democracy that you can vote out a dodgy leader?

and just a followup, say hypothetically we did have a good democracy and no chance of an authoritarian dictatorship, would you have any other issues with controls over ammo/guns? or is this the main objection?

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Elaeis
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It is happening in every country - some countries just cover the it in the news and other countries dont. It is bad !!

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 SMCJB 
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NYTimes :- How Banks Could Control Gun Sales if Washington Won’t

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/business/banks-gun-sales.html

This would probably be extremely effective. Other business's that the credit card companies have blocked (online poker/gambling comes to mind) have struggled mightly. something else interesting is that if you read the comments to the article, something mentioned is the idea of requiring gun insurance, just like car insurance.

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 rleplae 
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I don't think it's up to the payment scheme's to set such rules.

Rules imposed by the scheme are most often a consequence of a law.

You need to have a license to drive a car, and for many other things, the reason is to make the world safer. The same should be the case for firearms, and some of those arms are military and don't belong @ home. Unless very exceptional cases, and in that case then still a license could be foreseen, taking into consideration that situation and at least there would be a track.

When buying a gun, there should be a license (different sorts of, to be worked out), the person should be 'mental' ok, having some kind of an minimal age and there should be a record, people buying several guns, triggers a red flag, before something bad happens.

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 blb014 
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rleplae View Post
I don't think it's up to the payment scheme's to set such rules.

Rules imposed by the scheme are most often a consequence of a law.

You need to have a license to drive a car, and for many other things, the reason is to make the world safer. The same should be the case for firearms, and some of those arms are military and don't belong @ home. Unless very exceptional cases, and in that case then still a license could be foreseen, taking into consideration that situation and at least there would be a track.

When buying a gun, there should be a license (different sorts of, to be worked out), the person should be 'mental' ok, having some kind of an minimal age and there should be a record, people buying several guns, triggers a red flag, before something bad happens.

The concealed handgun license have had the opposite effects on the gun enthusiast (owns majority of weapons).

The ones that I know do not have CHL because of the way it is written, the sign contract and the paper trail. It is mostly for the novice like myself who only owns a few guns that have CHL.

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 blb014 
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When president Obama was elected, there was huge spike in gun sales and ammunition. After Sandy hook, I couldn’t find ammunition to buy just shoot at the indoor range.

Realistically If a law like that did pass, every weapon and ammunition for sale would be bought up. The black market on guns would be uncontrollable, there wouldn’t be enough manpower to enforce a Law like that.

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When president Obama was elected, there was huge spike in gun sales and ammunition. After Sandy hook, I couldn’t find ammunition to buy just shoot at the indoor range.

Realistically If a law like that did pass, every weapon and ammunition for sale would be bought up. The black market on guns would be uncontrollable, there wouldn’t be enough manpower to enforce a Law like that.

So we should do nothing and just watch more and more mass shootings?

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So we should do nothing and just watch more and more mass shootings?

Enhance background checks, bump stock ban. How do you control mental illness? I don't know.

Some suggestions sound good in theory, but the amount of burecracy that would create would be unmanegemable. Take for instance the DMV. So states are mandated to create Licenseing bureau for firearms, What would that cost? Manpower? Billlions nationwide I suppose. And the enforcement of the Law, billions more on for law enforecement

The gun enthusiast would not participate anyways and just buy and sell the 350 millions firearms that are now available thus create a huge black market for weapons. These kids would could purchase without any problem. It is so easy to buy or trade guns (not retail), if you ever around some gun enthusiast or go to a gun show you would understand

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Enhance background checks, bump stock ban. How do you control mental illness?

Not sure that would have prevented any of the recent shootings. Maybe Southerland Springs.


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Some suggestions sound good in theory, but the amount of burecracy that would create would be unmanegemable. Take for instance the DMV. So states are mandated to create Licenseing bureau for firearms, What would that cost? Manpower? Billlions nationwide I suppose.

Sounds like the license fee needs to be quite high to cover those costs

blb014 View Post
And the enforcement of the Law, billions more on for law enforecement.

That's a good point but we don't do that analysis before we bring in any other law.

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The gun enthusiast would not participate anyways and just buy and sell the 350 millions firearms that are now available thus create a huge black market for weapons. These kids would could purchase without any problem. It is so easy to buy or trade guns (not retail), if you ever around some gun enthusiast or go to a gun show you would understand

Your dead right. That's the exact problem. It's easy to get a gun in a second hand sale from a gun enthusiast, or at a gun show, all not subject to the background check that you propose we enhance. So you make it illegal to sell a gun without a background check. You require people who own guns to have gun insurance. You require gun clubs and shooting ranges to verify gun registration and insurance - just like garages do with cars! You don't ban guns you regulate them. Ohh and the black market? Sure there will be one, but the price will go through the roof. Not many kids paying thousands for guns on the black market.

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How do you control mental illness? I don't know.

The same way you treat any disability. The same way you install tactile warnings at the traffic lights for blind people. You put them out of harm's way.

Nobody says, "Oh many blind people have been killed in traffic accidents, but how do you control for blindness?" and then decide there's nothing to be done about it.


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So states are mandated to create Licenseing bureau for firearms, What would that cost? Manpower? Billlions nationwide I suppose.

Many DMVs are profitable. USCIS is profitable. As you've said yourself, there's perhaps some 350 million firearms which will need to be registered, which is well in excess of the number of green card applications each year, and well in excess of the number of vehicle registrations in the US.

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Bloomberg :- How Defective Guns Became the Only Product That Can’t Be Recalled

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-28/how-defective-guns-became-the-only-product-that-can-t-be-recalled

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Bloomberg :- How Defective Guns Became the Only Product That Can’t Be Recalled

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-28/how-defective-guns-became-the-only-product-that-can-t-be-recalled

What's scary from all this is that certain lobbyists and corporations appear to be untouchable in the US.

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Well the NRA pretty much is.

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Just in case anybody did think arming teachers was a good idea...

Teacher’s Gun Is Accidentally Fired During Public Safety Class, Injuring 3
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/us/teacher-gun-accidental-discharge.html

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And another...

CNN :- One dead after armed student shoots two others at Maryland high school, sheriff says

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/index.html

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Often it takes just a leader for others to follow.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-22/citigroup-restricts-some-gun-sales-by-its-business-customers

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John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opinion/john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment.html

John Paul Stevens is an American lawyer and jurist who served as an associate justice of the U.S. Supreme Court from 1975 until his retirement in 2010. At the time of his retirement, he was the second oldest serving justice in the history of the Court, and the third longest serving Supreme Court Justice in history.

Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century.

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Gone quiet in here!

Bloomberg :- Fear-Based Gun Buying Is Back
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-03/fear-based-gun-buying-is-back

Washington Post :- Guns are responsible for the largest share of U.S. homicides in over 80 years, federal mortality data shows
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/04/02/guns-are-now-responsible-for-the-largest-share-of-american-homicides-in-over-80-years-federal-mortality-data-show/

Nothing to see hear, move on...

New York Times "The Daily" :- The Right to Bear Arms
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/03/podcasts/the-daily/second-amendment-supreme-court.html

Interesting discussion on the 2nd amendment, the only two cases that have gone to the Supreme Court, and how it's interpretation has changed over the years. Not as black and white as the gun owners would have you believe.

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Just 6 days after the mass shooting in New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said today that the country would prohibit the types of guns and equipment used to kill 50 people at two mosques in Christchurch last week. New Zealand’s largest opposition party said it supported the measures, which Ms. Ardern emphasized would require a buyback of banned weapons in circulation and the regulation of firearms and ammunition.

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SMCJB View Post
Just 6 days after the mass shooting in New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said today that the country would prohibit the types of guns and equipment used to kill 50 people at two mosques in Christchurch last week. New Zealand’s largest opposition party said it supported the measures, which Ms. Ardern emphasized would require a buyback of banned weapons in circulation and the regulation of firearms and ammunition.

all these laws are doing is hurting law abiding people. If someone wants to do harm they will use cars,home made explosives,knives, acid the list goes on and on. Its horrible what happened to these people but this isn't going to fix the solution. Crime will go up and no one will report it because that would mean there end all be all idea to this horrible incident isn't working. What the world needs to understand is there are horrible people out there that are going to do horrible things regardless of the laws. Boston bombing is a perfect example how many people were hurt and killed buy a home made explosive device and no one wants to ban pressure cookers.

The real kicker is now some states are allowing the people affected by these tragedies to sue and tack legal action against the gun manufactures like they are trying to kill or hurt people on purpose BUT no one wants to sue honda because some drunk hit 130 on the highway and killed a van filled with people.

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