You could also add Custer, and all the other American's Leaders who slaughtered the Indian's.
Or even the Pope's for all the millions that were killed in the name of Christianity.
The list of people who killed million's of innocent's isn't reserved to people with differing political views to you.
Also No Gun Control is also a prerequisite to Mass Murder as we have seen.
That's 250 years ago and is to be honest very dated at this point.
The founding fathers also allowed slavery.
They also founded a country based upon separation of church and state, two things that are now ubiquitous.
The list goes on.
Why do you come to a trading forum and then not talk about trading but only shout about guns?
3 posts in your history all about guns?
Obviously free to do what you like but you seem like you would be more suited at a gun forum.
The following user says Thank You to SMCJB for this post:
I understand that. What I'm getting at, is the fact that while you you may be giving yourself a chance to protect yourself, in reality you're increasing the chance that the bad things happen. While you may actually be protecting yourself a little, I believe your putting everybody else in a lot more danger. ie Your rights to own a gun are more important than my rights to be safe.
Why is there this assumption that everyone who owns a gun is some bumbling fool that's going to shoot himself by accident or someone else? There are many people who take gun ownership seriously and go to the range..plus practice defensive measures. This notion of everyone being incompetent with guns is absurd. I have yet to see anyone on this thread refute my assertion that almost all gun violence in this country is carried out by criminals, gang members, drug dealers and occasional lone psychos.
Where are the stats that law abiding and licensed gun owners are causing lots of violence?
I'm not sure who alleged any of things that you are claiming or how what your saying effects the conversation. All the CHL owners I know are all very competent with guns and I do not feel unsafe around them.
I didn't think the discussion was about "law abiding and licensed gun owners are causing lots of violence" I thought we were talking about that stats that show guns kill a lot of people. The thread isn't "Yet another mass shooting by a licensed gun holder.".
My argument is very relevant..If you show clearly which groups are mainly responsible for gun violence..then the solution would be to have a plan that reduced those groups access to guns or penalize heavily those that are committing crimes using guns.
Plus you have stated in numerous posts how owning a gun increases the chances of one hurting themselves with it. That sounds like you are claiming gun owners are incompetent. So everything I stated was relevant to your posts plus the problem of gun violence in this country. Your blanket statement "Guns kill a lot of people" is dubious. Cars kill a lot of people..Diseases kill people..etc. When we are talking about the gun problem in this country, it is important to make the distinction of what groups are causing the majority of the problem. How is that not a logical argument?
However, this debate will go on and it's generally always the same arguments.. so this is my last post on this. I will stick to the trading threads from now on.
Failure is not an option
The following user says Thank You to lancelottrader for this post:
Talking about the Bill of Rights...despite its name the Bill of Rights does not give rights to citizens. Those rights already exist and cannot be granted by the state. We get them at birth. What the BOR does is limit the power of government. Read the amendments, the word "not" or "no" comes up over and over, and what they're addressing is what the state can and can't do to the citizens. Again, the BOR does not give rights...it limits what the government can do against those rights which are already retained by the citizens.
The founding fathers did not give me the right to have a gun to protect myself and family. It was never theirs to give. It's a natural right, and one that never goes out of style. It never becomes dated. Now I know your response is going to be your right to own guns does not trump my right to be safe, but then out of nowhere you say this:
That pretty much flies in the face of everything you've been saying this whole thread, doesn't it? Guns are dangerous, homes with guns in them are more dangerous, the armed citizen good guy is a myth, the gun's more likely to be stolen or used against its owner, etc. So I'm a little confused at this point.
Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me.
Not at all, they are not mutually exclusive statements (and I believe statistical facts), because the few CHL owners that I know do not represent the entire population of gun owners. That's sort of the whole point. It's not about whether you personally are a safe gun owner, but whether society is safer with our current gun laws. Your arguing you are safe. I'm arguing society isn't. We can both be right.
*Actually thinking about it some more, I do know one person who has a CHL and carries often, and that scares the living daylights out of me!