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Yet another mass shooting
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Yet another mass shooting

  #121 (permalink)
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Enjoy your nanny state, people. I'm with Col.



Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me.
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  #122 (permalink)
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On the vid around 4:00, Col says :


Quoting 
We live a life of freedom unlike any other country on this planet...

No you don't : the American Dream has, most unfortunately, become the American DREAM...

As a European who loves the US, first drove coast to coast in the '70s, lived in California for a year in the '90s, I can tell you a LOT has changed in my lifetime... & it's not all good.

I appreciate that with the Second Amendment, gun control is not going to happen, but to anyone outside the US the typical pro-gun myopia amongst otherwise intelligent people is truly staggering.

Well, that's enough sh*t stirring from me for one morning....

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  #123 (permalink)
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jtrade View Post
On the vid around 4:00, Col says :



No you don't : the American Dream has, most unfortunately, become the American DREAM...

As a European who loves the US, first drove coast to coast in the '70s, lived in California for a year in the '90s, I can tell you a LOT has changed in my lifetime... & it's not all good.

I appreciate that with the Second Amendment, gun control is not going to happen, but to anyone outside the US the typical pro-gun myopia amongst otherwise intelligent people is truly staggering.

Well, that's enough sh*t stirring from me for one morning....

The American Dream was always a dream. The idea of owning a home was a dream that was created by corporations to keep workers close to factories and tied down to a job by 'roots'. The white picket fence wasn't to keep people out but to keep you in. Home ownership was a form of robbery and slavery. It was the easiest way to recoup the wages they paid workers. The ultimate 'money flow'.

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  #124 (permalink)
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Pariah Carey View Post
Enjoy your nanny state, people. I'm with Col.

It's a nice speech but it's just rhetoric. The truth is people with guns do not help themselves or others. There are virtually no examples of it. I believe statistically you are more likely to be killed with your own weapon than you are to kill somebody else with it. How is that protecting yourself?

I know you all like your guns, and hide behind the claim that you need them to protect yourself from the bad people. As I've argued previously though, you and your family are more likely to die to a texting driver than to a gun, but that's an inconvenient truth everybody ignores, otherwise they would be pushing as hard to fix texting and driving as much as they do keeping their guns.

Let me ask this. If the government has decided that somebody is such a high security risk that they won't let them on an airplane, why should they be allowed to buy a gun?

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  #125 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
We have a worldwide audience here, I'm curious what the rest of the world thinks about the craziness and normality of mass shootings in America.

Sent from my phone

There is no sun without shadows. If you want the freedoms, there will be inevitable drawbacks, as everything operates in the context of duality. The mass shootings are the shadow of the responsibility that the US has assumed for itself.

Freedom is great, but there is no unconditional freedom without negative consequences. +/- everything. Do the +s outweigh the -s?

"...the degree to which you think you know, assume you know, or in any way need to know what is going to happen next, is equal to the degree to which you will fail as a trader." - Mark Douglas
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  #126 (permalink)
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I've long believed that getting behind the wheel of a car is the most dangerous thing I do each day. Not much I can do about careless drivers except be situationally aware, just as I am when armed in a public place. Should I write a letter to my representative? Ask for more stringent laws? Just like with mass shooters (or cocaine dealers, drunk drivers, rogue traders at large banks, or other bad people) what good are more laws going to do? People will find ways to break them if they want to.


SMCJB View Post
Let me ask this. If the government has decided that somebody is such a high security risk that they won't let them on an airplane, why should they be allowed to buy a gun?

The no fly list is a statist, secretive, unconstitutional abuse of power which affords no due process for those who are on it. You look at it and say "the government is protecting me." I look at it and say "prove it, fuckers." But they can't and won't. They call all the shots, and the citizen gets no appeal or redress. It operates under the same paradigm as the Soviet gulag, just a tidy way to deal with problem children.

So to me that somebody is on the no fly list has nothing to do with their fitness to possess a gun. And even if you do find the list credible, then forget guns your question should be why are they even in this country in the first place?

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  #127 (permalink)
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  #128 (permalink)
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I'll just leave this here...

Mass Shootings in 2015 - Mass Shooting Tracker

Mike

I see a lot of dice games gone bad here.

I live near the first city on the list, Memphis, and was raised in the second, Savannah. We know how to start the new year off with a bang!

Someday, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me.
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SMCJB View Post
It's a nice speech but it's just rhetoric. The truth is people with guns do not help themselves or others. There are virtually no examples of it. I believe statistically you are more likely to be killed with your own weapon than you are to kill somebody else with it. How is that protecting yourself?

1. In Chicago earlier this year, an Uber driver with a concealed-carry permit “shot and wounded a gunman [Everardo Custodio] who opened fire on a crowd of people.”

2. In a Philadelphia barber shop earlier this year, Warren Edwards “opened fire on customers and barbers” after an argument. Another man with a concealed-carry permit then shot the shooter; of course it’s impossible to tell whether the shooter would have kept killing if he hadn’t been stopped, but a police captain was quoted as saying that, “I guess he [the man who shot the shooter] saved a lot of people in there.”

3. In a hospital near Philadelphia, in 2014, Richard Plotts shot and killed the psychiatric caseworker with whom he was meeting, and shot and wounded his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman. Silverman shot back, and took down Plotts. While again it’s not certain whether Plotts would have killed other people, Delaware County D.A. Jack Whelan stated that, “If the doctor did not have a firearm, (and) the doctor did not utilize the firearm, he’d be dead today, and I believe that other people in that facility would also be dead”; Yeadon Police Chief Donald Molineux similar said that he “believe[d] the doctor saved lives.” Plotts was still carrying 39 unspent rounds when he was arrested. [UPDATE: I added this item since the original post.]

4. In Plymouth, Pa., in 2012, William Allabaugh killed one man and wounded another following an argument over Allabaugh being ejected from a bar. Allabaugh then approached a bar manager and Mark Ktytor and reportedly pointed his gun at them; Ktytor, who had a concealed-carry license, then shot Allabaugh. “The video footage and the evidence reveals that Mr. Allabaugh had turned around and was reapproaching the bar. Mr. [Ktytor] then acted, taking him down. We believe that it could have been much worse that night,” Luzerne County A.D.A. Jarrett Ferentino said.

5. Near Spartanburg, S.C., in 2012, Jesse Gates went to his church armed with a shotgun and kicked in a door. But Aaron Guyton, who had a concealed-carry license, drew his gun and pointed it at Gates, and other parishioners then disarmed Gates. Note that in this instance, unlike the others, it’s possible that the criminal wasn’t planning on killing anyone, but just brought the shotgun to church and kicked in the door to draw attention to himself or vent his frustration.

6. In Atlanta in 2009, Calvin Lavant and Jamal Hill broke into an apartment during a party and forced everyone to the floor. After they gathered various valuables, and separated the men and the women, and Lavant said to Hill, “we are about to have sex with these girls, then we are going to kill them all,” and began “discussing condoms and the number of bullets in their guns.” At that point, Sean Barner, a Marine who was attending Georgia State as part of the Marine Enlisted Commissioning Education Program, managed to get to the book bag he brought to the party; took out his gun; shot and scared away Hill; went into the neighboring room, where Lavant was about to rape one of the women; was shot at by Lavant, and shot back and hit Lavant, who then ran off and later died of his injuries. One of the women was shot and wounded in the shootout, but given the circumstances described in the sources I linked to, it seemed very likely that Lavant and Hill would have killed (as well as raped) some or all of the partygoers had they not been stopped. This incident of course involves a member of the military, not a civilian, so some may discount it on those grounds. But Barner was acting as a civilian, and carrying a gun as a civilian (he had a concealed carry license); indeed, if he had been on a military base, he would generally not have been allowed to carry a gun except when on security duty. [UPDATE: I added this item since the original post.]

7. In Winnemucca, Nev., in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with 300 people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed-carry license). It’s not clear whether Villagomez would have killed more people; the killings were apparently the result of a family feud, and I could see no information on whether Villagomez had more names on his list, nor could one tell whether he would have killed more people in trying to evade capture.

8. In Colorado Springs, Colo., in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since). Murray, knocked down and badly wounded, killed himself; it is again not clear whether he would have killed more people had he not been wounded, but my guess is that he would have (UPDATE: he apparently went to the church with more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition).

9. In Edinboro, Pa., in 1998, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun — possibly to attack more people, though the stories that I’ve seen are unclear — when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. It’s not clear whether Wurst was planning to kill others, would have gotten into a gun battle with the police, or would have otherwise killed more people had Strand not stopped him.

10. In Pearl, Miss., in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was leaving the school, he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. I have seen sources that state that Woodham was on the way to Pearl Junior High School to continue shooting, though I couldn’t find any contemporaneous news articles that so state. [UPDATE: For whatever it’s worth, Heidi Kinchen of The Advocate (Baton Rouge) notes that Myrick was in the Army reserves and in the National Guard, though he was obviously not on duty at the time of the shooting.]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/

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  #130 (permalink)
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I think 10 examples going back 18 years sort of proves my point.
It virtually never happens. It actually happens once every 22 months.

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