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Poll: Health Care bill, for or against?
Updated: Views / Replies:9,850 / 99
Created: by Big Mike Attachments:1

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View Poll Results: Health Care Bill
I am for it 33 35.87%
I am against it 52 56.52%
I don't care or it doesn't affect me 7 7.61%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Poll: Health Care bill, for or against?

  #1 (permalink)
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Poll: Health Care bill, for or against?

I've added a poll option, please vote above. As the health care bill stands now, are you for or against it?

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  #2 (permalink)
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40 views... and six votes? Guys, there is even an option for "don't care"... if you care enough to click it

Mike

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  #3 (permalink)
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Alas if it were only about health care.

But....

But the government says, In spite of the fact we made a mess of medicare and medicaid, now we want to control all of it.... and

If you don't want to participate we will make you, and if you don't do it we will fine you.... and

oh we take the right to check into your financial accounts and take the money if you don't want to give it to us.... and

we make appeared balanced over 10 years, by starting taxes right away and services a bit later.

What's not to like.

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  #4 (permalink)
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Peter2150 View Post
Alas if it were only about health care.

But....

But the government says, In spite of the fact we made a mess of medicare and medicaid, now we want to control all of it.... and

If you don't want to participate we will make you, and if you don't do it we will fine you.... and

oh we take the right to check into your financial accounts and take the money if you don't want to give it to us.... and

we make appeared balanced over 10 years, by starting taxes right away and services a bit later.

What's not to like.

AMEN, Peter125, you said it all.

Eddie

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  #5 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Here's a different take on that:

Imagine you have a stone & you drop it from a height of 3 feet, into glass of water. Lots of water splashes out of the glass, right? Now imagine you drop that same stone into a swimming pool from a height of 3 feet. Not much water splashes out of the pool!

I think this is one of the things that the Obama-proposed plan is trying to achieve.

The status quo is fine for those who currently don't pay their own health care premiums (retired persons on Medicare, employees of large companies, etc), but for the rest of us, it SUCKS!

My gross annual salary from the business I co-own is $38,000. My healthcare premiums are $976.00 a month! (In case you don't have a calculator handy, that's $11,712 a year in healthcare premiums - divided into $38,000 - that's almost 31% of my gross annual salary! ! !). Thank goodness we have a little income from a rental property & have scrimped & saved over the years.

How much longer can folks like me in the middle class, not to mention the poor, continue to bear the burden?

One answer would have been to extend Medicare to ALL CITIZENS and remove that stupid CAP on payroll taxes (Yes, we, the middle class, making less than $106,800 a year (most of us!) pay tax on 100% of our salaries. 100% ! ! ! !. All those out there making MORE than $106,800 a year, get off TAX FREE on any amount ABOVE $106,800 (That's a lot of people I know!)

From a tax website: "The wage base for social security tax is $106,800 for the year 2009. Once that amount is earned, neither the employee or the employer owes any social security tax." Granted, the Medicare tax rate is lower than the social security tax rate, but it stops at $106,800, too! Removing the cap COULD fix both the social security deficit & allow for Medicare coverage for all.

How about we adopt a plan like they have in Costa Rica (where Rush Limbaugh said he would go for healthcare, should the so-called ObamaCare plan pass) - a simple 9% federal income tax that goes strictly for single-payer (the government) healthcare. What could be simpler! They've had it since 1941 AND it's working JUST FINE !

Ours isn't!

I recently had the opportunity to apply for healthcare coverage with "another company". The agent who interviewed us said she used to sell policies for "a well-known and respected insurance provider who's been around for generations" UNTIL her father was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, at which point, they doubled his premiums when the policy came up for renewal and stopped paying for his chemo treatments. SHE QUIT THE NEXT DAY. The only thing they would cover were doctors' visits! Now THAT'S good ol' US Healthcare at its best! Obviously they decided their best option (most profitable) was to just let him die.

I, by the way, was DECLINED coverage with this "new company" because I have arthritis and a disintegrated disc in my lower back (not something that my lifestyle caused. Mom & Dad had arthritis in their later years, too. Nothing I can do about that).

DECLINED!

We have to take healthcare away from the "for-profit" companies out there. People's healthcare should NOT be a profit making industry. I recently reviewed some of my claims for a few doctors' visits I had in the past few months. "The doctors, of course, want to bill as much as they absolutely can for every procedure." (This is a direct quote from one of the doctors I visited). "And the insurance companies want to retain as much of your premium as they can." The doctor billed the insurance company $175.00 for the visit (they paid him $12.50). He also billed them $245.00 for a cortisone injection he gave me (they paid him $38.00). My co-pay was $50.00. So for that entire 1 hour visit & injection, the good doctor made $100.50. How can the doctors survive on incomes like this? By herding us through like cattle. Any good business person will tell you "Either raise the rates or increase the flow of customers."

NOW is the time for healthcare revolt. Because what we have is revolting!

Sorry for the long ramble. I just wanted to tell everyone, as Paul Harvey used to say "The rest of the story".

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!

Last edited by TheWizard; March 20th, 2010 at 01:43 PM. Reason: Removed the names of the "companies" - I didn't want to get sued!
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  #6 (permalink)
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TheWizard,

I completely agree. My family is made up of doctors and MANY of them (actually a majority of them) actually AGREE with universal coverage. They feel squeezed by insurance companies and the lawyers and that any legislation (although doctors as a contingent are traditionally Republicans). They have a sense that adding a govn't based health insurance requirement/plan on the table will drive competition and force the market players (big bad insurance companies) to be more competitive.

By the way, medicare is a perfect example of a government run insurance program that is profitable AND a program that all the payees (the elderly) are extremely happy with. Plus all of the congressmen and government officials have something that many taxpayers dont! Government sanctioned healthcare...how does that work?

I hope it passes tomorrow.

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  #7 (permalink)
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I hope it passes too, just to prove that it doesn't work either. for me there's no quick fix. the only way to get that problem under control is to change our way of living. by that I mean to live healthier.

one thing that always puzzles me is the complaining from lower and middle class about paying too much taxes. in most cases the tax refund check they get is bigger than the actual taxes they paid. this surely is a unique system on that planet.

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  #8 (permalink)
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I don't think the current healthcare bill addresses the problems with the current healthcare system. The main problem is it is expensive and growing more expensive at a faster rate than both inflation and real wage growth. If it keeps up than most people will not be able to afford healthcare and it will bankrupt the United States. The democrats complain that it's the insurance companies fault for raising peoples premiums, but in truth it's not. Insurance companies are raising their rates because they need to do so to stay in business, healthcare costs are rising and as long as core healthcare cost rise insurance premiums must also rise. The thing that must be done that is completely ignored in this bill is to do things that lower the basic cost of healthcare. Things like throwing the lawyers out of the equation, getting a rid of the regulation of the huge government bureaucracies, and increasing competition. None of these key issues are brought up at all, so if this healthcare bill passes as is, then costs will keep going up and become even less affordable for people. It doesn't make sense to add more government agencies, administrators, and regulations to an already bloated system, that just adds more expense and those costs will just be passed down to the consumer.

For the insurance companies, they are private businesses, if they don't have a choice of who to accept and not accept there would not be any insurance companies left, and nobody would have insurance. Would a car insurance company accept a person who totaled his car every time he drove it? Of course not, that would be stupid on the part of the insurance company. I know it sounds cold hearted when you talk about people's lives, but that is just how it is and that how it works best. For those that buy health insurance and then get an illness, then the insurance company should uphold the contract that the person signed, if it says that they need to payout then they need to payout, people should not be swindled out of what they deserve. On the other hand those that don't have health insurance then get sick and then go out and buy insurance and they get denied that's their own fault. What do you think they call it insurance? If somebody burnt down their house and then tried to get insurance, do you think the insurance company should cover their house burning down after the fact, obviously not.
I don't think it's the taxpayers obligation to cover other peoples medical expenses. I know that it's already like this with Medicare, and medicate, but if people think that those people with preexisting illnesses should be covered, than the government should consider giving credits out in the form of vouchers so that people could choose where they wanted to go, what doctor to see and decide how much they wanted to pay so that they could shop around and get a lower cost and better service, and get a rid of all of the pencil pushers that just cost money.

I agree that we need healthcare reform, but in its current state it would be a disaster to both the current healthcare system and the United States.

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  #9 (permalink)
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phyzfer View Post

By the way, medicare is a perfect example of a government run insurance program that is profitable AND a program that all the payees (the elderly) are extremely happy with.

Medicare is profitable? In 2009, it cost the federal government about $450 billion.

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  #10 (permalink)
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The question becomes: "Is healthcare a right?", just like freedom of speech, or in some countries even The Internet is a right. Is healthcare to be treated as a right?

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

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