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Poll: Health Care bill, for or against?
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View Poll Results: Health Care Bill
I am for it 33 35.87%
I am against it 52 56.52%
I don't care or it doesn't affect me 7 7.61%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Poll: Health Care bill, for or against?

  #71 (permalink)
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The man said to the Universe
"Sir, I exist"
"Still" the Universe replied
"That fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation" ....Stephan Crane

I am 59 years old, I have had a heart attack, heart surgery, back surgery, and a broken neck in the past 3 years. I do not qualify for any more insurance other than what I already have which by the way, I pay alot for. I do not get any govt subsidy or disability. I am not wealthy by any sense of measurement. But ya know what, that's life, there are no guarantees, no entitlements, and no expectations of others paying my bills.
To those who want to whine about some percieved entitlement, to those who want to consider themselves a minority or a victims, that is your choice. This old Marine ain't buying it... Semper Fi

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  #72 (permalink)
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riskybiz View Post
Drago, You must not be considering the taxes you pay on gas and other consumer goods. Argue if you want but the fact remains, no one has given so much to so many as America has. Moreover, the vast differences in population alone makes your comparison irrelavant and, America took in alot more poor immigrants than Canada has over the past 200 years. Again, with all due respect, if it wasn't for America, Canadians woulldn't be enjoying their libertiies and freedoms. It was American energy and finance that stood against the Soviets. Just one more point, Canadian law has outlawed freedom of speech in churches, is there anything more basic to freedom than that?

This is not a contest who is better. I tried to emphasize that. I was just responding to the writer who said that he does not consider the opinions of citizens of other countries because they are not free like americans.

The big lie that we tell ourselves is that any of us are really free. All this freedom talk by politicians & special interest pundits is nothing but a red herring to get people bickering over left versus right or liberal versus conservative or us versus them. Meanwhile the oligarchs who really run the show are stealing the country blind. It is same everywhere - and always has been. They are just getting more sophisticated at it.

If you refused to pay taxes -are you free to make that choice? If the government drafts you - or worse -confiscates your child to fight in some war that you are against. Do you own your life? If you choose to alter your consciousness by ingesting or smoking a natural hallucinogen ? No you are not even free to do to alter your own consciousness - or the government will put you in jail. Basic Freedom you say. You do not own your labour, you do not own your life, you do not even have the liberty of altering your own consciousness. How less free could you be? . These are the freedoms you should be screaming about !!!! not whether a church can hump for a politician.

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  #73 (permalink)
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For the factually and reality challenged: Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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  #74 (permalink)
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riskybiz View Post
The man said to the Universe
"Sir, I exist"
"Still" the Universe replied
"That fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation" ....Stephan Crane

I am 59 years old, I have had a heart attack, heart surgery, back surgery, and a broken neck in the past 3 years. I do not qualify for any more insurance other than what I already have which by the way, I pay alot for. I do not get any govt subsidy or disability. I am not wealthy by any sense of measurement. But ya know what, that's life, there are no guarantees, no entitlements, and no expectations of others paying my bills.
To those who want to whine about some percieved entitlement, to those who want to consider themselves a minority or a victims, that is your choice. This old Marine ain't buying it... Semper Fi


I can't even believe that someone can even speak here and talk about whining. Come on, you qoute Stephan Crane, but what you ought to be qouting is the BIBILE and what would our Lord and Savior think of those words and the actions of others who can let a human being die or suffer due to no health care. I tell ya, what has this world come too. I'm not advocating anyone to pay for my health care coverage, all I want is a choice between Private and Public insurance. My choice, My dollars

Just an observation, you say your 59 yrs old, a heart attack, heart surgery, back surgery, broken neck, you must have a decent yearly income to cover monthly insurance. God forbids anything happens to that source of income. Lets say you loose your source of income then you will be shock at how fast your opinion of others will come to question or maybe not, some people just don't get it.

Here's a quote:

'For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
- Matthew 25:35-40

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  #75 (permalink)
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Bigtrader, Is it not written that the poor will always be with us, and is it not written that a man should give as it is purposed in HIS heart, and is it not written that a person that won't work (when he is able to of course) doesn't deserve to eat? I also recall reading that a person that doesn't take care of his family is worse than an infidel, no?

my source of income is from trading, I havn't worked in over 5 years do to injury/illness. My wife is the primary breadwinner at this time and the medicals bills are stacked up but I pay what I can. My intention is to pay it them all. As a result my lifelong outstanding credit rating is shot. My income throughout the years has been avg to slightly above. Like most, we had good times and bad times. Always, have we lived within our means and payed our own way, saved and put our 2 kids through school. I have made plenty of bad choices in my life including career choices but I own those choices and the ramifications therein. It is not the responsibility of others to pay for my poor choices.

Where in the scriptures you quoted does it say anything remotely indicating the gov't should take one''s money and give it to another? Giving is both a privelege and a moral imperitive, it is not however a statitory obligation devised by some guilt ridden govt beaurocrat.

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  #76 (permalink)
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Drago, time and writing skills prolly limit the expression of our stated thoughts, and you are correct that this isn't a pissing contest.

Of course by necessity there needs to be some form of social order which invariably will cause most individuals to conform to a manner of behavior that is acceptable to the greater good, and that will prevent us from acting out from our most base natures and ego centric frailties. Balance of course is the key and not allowing a centralized govt to assume unreasonable level of power over the citizenry.......... Don't ya just love our tea party movement? it is non violent (so far) but in your face, it has attracted a diverse and growing populace, and most are far from being ignorant red-necks. It is America reminding our bloated beurocrats that they work for us and demanding that we are a constitutional republic of the people, by the people, for the people. It is purely American not by nature but by design.

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  #77 (permalink)
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riskybiz View Post
Bigtrader, Is it not written that the poor will always be with us, and is it not written that a man should give as it is purposed in HIS heart, and is it not written that a person that won't work (when he is able to of course) doesn't deserve to eat? I also recall reading that a person that doesn't take care of his family is worse than an infidel, no?

my source of income is from trading, I havn't worked in over 5 years do to injury/illness. My wife is the primary breadwinner at this time and the medicals bills are stacked up but I pay what I can. My intention is to pay it them all. As a result my lifelong outstanding credit rating is shot. My income throughout the years has been avg to slightly above. Like most, we had good times and bad times. Always, have we lived within our means and payed our own way, saved and put our 2 kids through school. I have made plenty of bad choices in my life including career choices but I own those choices and the ramifications therein. It is not the responsibility of others to pay for my poor choices.

Where in the scriptures you quoted does it say anything remotely indicating the gov't should take one''s money and give it to another? Giving is both a privelege and a moral imperitive, it is not however a statitory obligation devised by some guilt ridden govt beaurocrat.

Deuteronomy 23:1 ESV
No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.
Is this biblical quote utterly irrelevent to the discussion on a healthcare bill? Absolutely. So is the bible.

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  #78 (permalink)
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Why I qouted the Bible!


riskybiz View Post
Drago, time and writing skills prolly limit the expression of our stated thoughts, and you are correct that this isn't a pissing contest.

Of course by necessity there needs to be some form of social order which invariably will cause most individuals to conform to a manner of behavior that is acceptable to the greater good, and that will prevent us from acting out from our most base natures and ego centric frailties. Balance of course is the key and not allowing a centralized govt to assume unreasonable level of power over the citizenry.......... Don't ya just love our tea party movement? it is non violent (so far) but in your face, it has attracted a diverse and growing populace, and most are far from being ignorant red-necks. It is America reminding our bloated beurocrats that they work for us and demanding that we are a constitutional republic of the people, by the people, for the people. It is purely American not by nature but by design.


riskybiz View Post
Bigtrader, Is it not written that the poor will always be with us, and is it not written that a man should give as it is purposed in HIS heart, and is it not written that a person that won't work (when he is able to of course) doesn't deserve to eat? I also recall reading that a person that doesn't take care of his family is worse than an infidel, no?

my source of income is from trading, I haven't worked in over 5 years do to injury/illness. My wife is the primary breadwinner at this time and the medicals bills are stacked up but I pay what I can. My intention is to pay it them all. As a result my lifelong outstanding credit rating is shot. My income throughout the years has been avg to slightly above. Like most, we had good times and bad times. Always, have we lived within our means and payed our own way, saved and put our 2 kids through school. I have made plenty of bad choices in my life including career choices but I own those choices and the ramifications therein. It is not the responsibility of others to pay for my poor choices.

Where in the scriptures you quoted does it say anything remotely indicating the gov't should take one''s money and give it to another? Giving is both a privilege and a moral imperitive, it is not however a statitory obligation devised by some guilt ridden govt beaurocrat.


Boi oh boi, you guys just don't get it. I qouted the scriptures to explain to you guys that no matter what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is more appreciative to those who take care of others no matter the circumstances. The qoutes don't pertain to health care, but what I want people to think is Jesus is a man of forgiveness, understanding, loving, caring and always showed compasion for others no matter the circumstances. Those who were sick he healed, those who were hungry he feed, those who hated him he loved. All though I dont agree with everything on this Bill, people it is a start and we must go on and try and fix things. To say you are in favor of someone dying because their insurance company drops their coverage, or told their Doctor not to do the surgery, man that is so IMMORAL. How can you justify that, none of you can't.

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  #79 (permalink)
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This is how I believe (personally) discussions should be conducted, each side presenting a good point, not like those who resort to just name calling.
Been interesting.

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  #80 (permalink)
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It’s a sleepy Sunday afternoon in balmy Brisbane and my weekend chores are done.

If I may attempt a different tack to this debate, creating a healthy happy world is a worthy pursuit which we all have a stake in and I would expect that all who have contributed to this thread would agree, after all the American Declaration of Independence includes the pursuit of happiness as an unalienable right.

The happiness of a nation is degraded by the percentage of the population denied adequate health care. In Australia many if not most of our indigenous aboriginal citizens suffer significantly higher mortality from treatable infectious and other diseases and generations of governments, socialist and conservative, up to the present day, have failed to find the magic cure for this issue, but universal health care (not free, but universally available to all regardless of income) and targeted indigenous health care funding is gradually improving this horrible situation. Australia is a very wealthy country with one of the world's lowest tax rates, and one of only 2-3 in the world that avoided the effects of the GFC with positive economic growth, but still we have very confronting health issues within sectors in our society, which makes many Australians very unhappy. But most citizens and all political parties here recognise that we have a responsibility to provide quality healthcare to all citizens, not only for ethical, religious, societal or political reasons, but also to keep at bay those historically devastating diseases such as TB, plague, influenza and the emerging diseases such as HIV, hepatitis C etc (the list is long), not to mention the diseases of modern life such as diabetes and obesity both of which threaten to overwhelm society as we know it due to soaring health care costs. In the absence of a universal health care program, these diseases and their costs can escalate out of control and place everyone at risk - eg I would not like to be at the movies wondering if the person coughing behind me was infected with untreatable antibiotic-resistant TB. Couldn’t happen? Well, antibiotic resistant TB arose a few years ago due to inadequately or untreated destitute and homeless people in cities around the world including New York, and threatened to spread out of control until government programs stepped in to contain it. We recently dodged several bullets including SARS, and the bird flu and swine flu outbreaks, the latter of which caused a new pandemic which may still evolve into a strain that decimates global populations, rich or poor. I doubt that anyone addressing this thread would argue for axing institutions such as the NIH or the CDC and similar institutions in other countries which are funded by our tax $$, as these provide our only protection against apocalyptic diseases, and serve to make our lives happier and healthier.

May I refer you to this website which lists A Short History of Happiness”. It's not without humour, eg "Karl Marx sees happiness as the ultimate destination, achieved through crashing the lead vehicle", which lead to the train wreck of communism.
KR Connect: A Short History of Happiness

Have a good day,
Nano

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