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Poll: Health Care bill, for or against?
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View Poll Results: Health Care Bill
I am for it 33 35.87%
I am against it 52 56.52%
I don't care or it doesn't affect me 7 7.61%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Poll: Health Care bill, for or against?

  #21 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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David_R View Post
I don't think so. They would just find some other way to keep premiums high. After all, they are in it for profit.

D

and so are doctors, hospitals, nursing homes etc.

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  #22 (permalink)
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TheWizard View Post
Quoting: "For the insurance companies, they are private businesses, if they don't have a choice of who to accept and not accept there would not be any insurance companies left"

And that might be a good thing. Tell me of one other instance in life where a "middle-man" comes between a service provider (doctor) and recipient (you).

Nobody forces you to buy health insurance. If you wanted to you could just pay the doctor in cash on the spot, no health insurance trying to make a profit, no middle man. If you can't afford it, that's not health insurance companies fault, they don't decide what health care costs. If we want to make it a better system we need to target the core costs that are causing medical costs to be so high. That means getting rid of all of the malpractice, all of the lawyers trying to make money and sue all of the doctors, the government regulations that cause drug companies to spend billions, and all of the layers of administrators that are not needed and just add cost. Years and years ago most people that needed medical care just paid for it out of pocket, it was affordable enough to do that. So, what has changed since then that made it go up in price so much. More malpractice, more lawyers, more regulation, more government spending, the more government tries to do the worse it does, this is seen over and over again throughout history, throughout the world. So why on earth would it be a good idea to set up even more regulators, more agencies, more bureaucracies, and have even more middle man separating the doctor from the patient?

The thing that should be changed, is when a hard working individual buys health insurance and then gets sick and then the insurance company doesn't pay. If they buy insurance to cover something it should cover it no matter what, no questions asked. If someone is denied because of that, then that truly needs to be changed, but that's just upholding private contracts which is already done in the court systems.

Things need to be privatized as much as possible. I brought this up before, for those who have illnesses and those that can't afford medical care could have the government give out a credit and have the person decide where they wanted to go for their healthcare. Not have the government tell you where you need to go, and decide what companies either succeed or fail, the people would decide it. For example, if one doctor or hospital gave you poor service or ripped you off, then you would choose a different doctor or hospital to go to. This would cause only the cost effective and high quality to stay in business, because nobody would go to the other ones, unless they too changed and gave the same benefits. Same thing with schools, stores, etc.

I personally think they also need to change the tax system. No more income tax, business tax, property tax, or capital gains tax. A flat tax on consumer products would solve the problem of how much money went to a school districts, cities, etc. Then instead of public schools which are mostly failing, the government could give out a credit and the parents could choose what the best private school is for their children. Again, the poor performing ones would fail and the better ones would succeed. It's the same with any healthcare product or service. So instead of having 100,000's government workers trying to run something they don't do very well could be replaced by a dozen people. That alone would save a huge amount of money.

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  #23 (permalink)
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Silvester17 View Post
and so are doctors, hospitals, nursing homes etc.

FWIW, in my experience as an accountant, there is more non-profit fraud than corporate fraud. Non-profit doesn't necessarily equal pure motives.

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  #24 (permalink)
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darthtrader3.6 View Post
The main problem with healthcare though is it gets more expensive because everyone is always going to want top of the line treatment unless you cut them off....Its an interesting economics question because it truely shorcuts/chops off the invisible hand...
The person in the ambulance having a heart attack can't shop around for the best price...
If you have terminal cancer you aren't going to take the 3rd best treatment because its the best bang for the buck because it literally is a matter of life and death.
This healthcare reform though solves none of this.
To me the elephant in the room that we do not want to face as a society is we are eventually going to have a tier system based on how much money you have. There is no other way to solve this problem.
I would be all for socialized medicine that sits at 2010 levels forever, and if you want more than that, you are free to buy it but don't complain when you are denied life saving medicine that you didnt want to pay for prior.
I hope this passes tomarrow just because its never going to come into effect anyway and it will completely hang the democratic party.

And there is another part of the problem. For some reason we all think "our side" has the answer. If only the other side would have won then everything would be rosy. What I just can't grasp when someone makes a comment about the party that they apparently don't like, I just wonder what it is that they see in the party that they do like. So, lets pass this bill so the Dems will hang and then we can win in 2012. But, but, what about GWB? What is it that he and his crew did that was so fantastic? Why would the Rep way be so much better? Do yo really believe that?

By the way, I would agree on some level that healthcare and employment and economics may not mix and on some level it may have something to do with companies not being able to afford the employees, but I'm not sure that is really the key. Healthcare while employed is a "benefit". Just like an executive getting his rent paid while he is employed by the company, which they did where I worked. He gets his rent paid and makes $350K a year. No, in my case I lost my job because of mismanagement. I think the perception that individuals in these higher level positions are brighter and more talented than the next guy or gal. They get more stock options, perks, salary, bonuses and if they leave the company they get medical coverage for a year. If they forecast selling 100 widgets and only sell 50, they blame the economy. They are never wrong and never to blame.

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  #25 (permalink)
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Silvester17 View Post
and so are doctors, hospitals, nursing homes etc.

Absolutely! Profit seems to be what makes the world go round. Its all about the money. I wasn't just saying the insurance companies would find a way to keep their cheese.

The big question is: should healthcare be a for profit business? Is money really more important than ones health. To the ones that control things it is.

I'm not claiming to have any answers, but I do feel and believe if someone is sick and or hurt and does not have insurance and needs medical attention to survive they should get it.

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  #26 (permalink)
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that was funny:

the American people said no and the democrats said YES WE CAN

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  #27 (permalink)
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darthtrader3.6 View Post
I hope this passes tomarrow just because its never going to come into effect anyway and it will completely hang the democratic party.

Don't think so. The American public has a short memory and 6 ~ 7 months is a long time. The more popular items come early, and the not so nice things come later. They may hurt the Dems, but by the mid term elections there will be some other 'bright shiny object' in the news to distract people.

Health care won't be repealed, and if the Republicans do want to make a comeback, it would be better to work on improving health care, reducing mandates, smaller administration and cutting healthcare taxes. Get back to their roots.

I don't think they will get back to the classic republican platform, the Republicans lack leadership right now. I think they will keep using a 'scorched earth' tactic that will just start to seem mean in a few months.


Last edited by traderwerks; March 23rd, 2010 at 12:50 AM. Reason: clarity
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  #28 (permalink)
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I don't really know enough about what's in the bill to comment, but I did see an interesting documentary some of you guys might want to watch.

It's called Sicko...

You can watch the movie free at this site

When you click the link, there's a short youtube trailer to watch, also.


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  #29 (permalink)
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traderwerks View Post
I don't think they will get back to the classic republican platform, the Republicans lack leadership right now. I think they will keep using a 'scorched earth' tactic that will just start to seem mean in a few months.

Not only that, but the parties switch their stance depending on their majority/minority rule in the senate/house/presidency. Republicans now say they are against this law to reflect what a lot of (I'm not saying majority) americans think and this will be their platform for "change" in the midterm elections. But when they come to power again, the health insurance/big pharm lobbyist $$$ will have a big influence on their stance. I'd expect they will gain the house and/or senate in the midterm and there will be some effort to "repeal" the most offending part of the law but that will be watered down and have no real teeth to change anything substantial.

Regards,
-C

“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” - Sun Tzu
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  #30 (permalink)
 R.I.P. 1960-2010 
 
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Insurance companies are in it to win it - Forget the patient


I came to this party late, 'cause trying to exercise last week almost put me back in the hospital.

But I have a definite opinion about insurance companies. I have had over $1,000,000 in medical bills in the last few years. 7 times since my stem cell transplant (Nov 2007) though I was going to die while waiting for insurance approval.

Check out my Health Care Story. It is out dated, by a few months but it tells what happens when insurance companies decide what is timely treatment.

R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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