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Poll: Health Care bill, for or against?
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View Poll Results: Health Care Bill
I am for it 33 35.87%
I am against it 52 56.52%
I don't care or it doesn't affect me 7 7.61%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Poll: Health Care bill, for or against?

  #91 (permalink)
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Well, it sounds like a nice Utopia you have! First thing you have to realize is everything is an illusion. What people do, how money is created, what it represents and what it does. Anything is in fact possible. In your world where we go back to holding gold coins, horses, and six shooters, oh, and a health care system modeled on the cosmetic surgery industry, everything is going to be so much better and we won't worry about the system crashing down on us....OK....


drago1 View Post

In my dream the best solution would be to dissolve all the health insurance plans and return healthcare to a relationship of doctor and patient. Efficiency and competition would bring costs in line. Cosmetic surgery operates that way and that model seems to be working fine.

Unfortunately the only way real change is going to happen is after the whole entitlement system comes crashing down of its own weight. My gut feeling it that it will be sooner than most of us think.


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  #92 (permalink)
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You are strongly in favour of letting your neighbour, brother, and fellow man suffer so you can make a buck? I don't think that is the intended desire of free markets..


Jugador View Post
I'm not really qualified to give an in-depth explanation, but I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of us (Americans) oppose Obamacare, because we are strong believers in the "free market" system.

To a lot of us, Obamacare is just bigger govt, and a lot of us believe, "the smaller the
govt, the better".

Personally, I believe there are only a few things that govt needs to concern themselves with...Roads and bridges, providing a military to protect us from foreign
attacks, provide a police force to protect us from each other, provide a court system to help us resolve our disputes, and maybe build a few public libraries and museums.

Yes, it is a shame that health care cost in this country has spiraled out of control. I got a tooth cavity filled recently, it cost me $250, and it took the dentist all of 10 minutes to do the work. No wonder he drives a Cadillac Escalade.

But, I'd rather pay the $250, than have our govt regulate the dental profession.


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  #93 (permalink)
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OK, I refrained from the other comment you made but this one is just absurd. No offense but it really shows a lot about your formal education. American finance backed the Nazis for the first half of WW1 for your information. Bush's grandfather was one of the Nazis biggest backers. This while young Canadian sailors, my grandfather included, fought to keep the Atlantic open and safe from Tyranny. It was the Berlin wall that stood against the Soviets not American energy companies, where do you get your ideas? Canadian democracy has stood just as long as the US, and we owe the British Commonwealth, as a former Colony, as is America, for our belief in the rule of Common Law and the freedoms it enshrines. As for our belief in the freedom of speech. A, we didn't learn it from our big southern brother, and b, the only speech we prohibit is the incitement of hate, that means we don't let guys with white hats run around with megaphones, if you are not inciting hate then carry on... that is the message..


riskybiz View Post
Drago, You must not be considering the taxes you pay on gas and other consumer goods. Argue if you want but the fact remains, no one has given so much to so many as America has. Moreover, the vast differences in population alone makes your comparison irrelavant and, America took in alot more poor immigrants than Canada has over the past 200 years. Again, with all due respect, if it wasn't for America, Canadians woulldn't be enjoying their libertiies and freedoms. It was American energy and finance that stood against the Soviets. Just one more point, Canadian law has outlawed freedom of speech in churches, is there anything more basic to freedom than that?


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  #94 (permalink)
 R.I.P. 1960-2010 
 
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This is where the Tea Party is full of it. It is called obfuscation.

They might as well be the Taliban for the backwardness of their opinions. I am a Libertarian at heart. I live in an San Francisco, pretty liberal, because I can't stand the super Left or the super Right, at least here you are allowed to be different. Conformity did not get us the Wine Industry, artisan cheeses and breads, fantastic sustainable food (meat included) or Silicone Valley.

It is not Us against Them. It is about Insurance. I was required to prove how sick I would get over the last few weeks if my treatment was not changed to something that actually works.

My docs find it in their best interest to let me suffer, to the point I thought several times in the last 10 days I would have no choice but to go to the Hospital, through the Emergency room no less. Why? Because as my guy explained it. He never gets turned down, so he waits a little bit and has a 1000% batting average. It is awful, but true.

So, in this case My doc said he could not just admit me unless I want to pay a $100K bill out-of-pocker, like my last one (It was about $10,000 paid by the Insurance Co. or so, look above for the real #). $1500 out of pocket just to prove I am sick? No way! I will hold on until tomorrow, when I am scheduled for 3-5 hour in clinic, if I go into a fit again, they will admit me and it is only $250 out-of-pocket.

It is ridiculous! So, for me it is about insurance and the fact they hire people to say NO several times, even if the care is justified. They fought my going on a clinical trial. I almost died until another person in Clinic said you have a right to an Out of Network, out of area 2nd opinion.

Well I called back, said the magic words and got approval. It saved the insurance co. $5000 a month as the trial drugs and 1/2 the care was picked up by the drug company. Yet they still fought and also fought the $450 specialist bill, even after they approved it.

They finally paid a 15% or so, I am mad and do not not feel like going back and checking, penalty.

This cost them $, wasted my time and caused me to suffer. Wish I could find the funny video about the insurance chant of Die, Die, Die. They want to be in this business, then accept the responsibility and stop covering those who do the most damage to themselves. That would save everyone a lot of trouble.

Tax the heck out of things that are bad for you: like junk food, tobacco, liquor, or not exercising. There are clauses in Life-Insurance policies that if you die from skydiving or something else that is consider self-inflicted, like suicide YOU ARE NOT COVERED! Healthy care should be the same.

In my case they already knew that I would be considered permanent disabled, and I might get cancer from the treatment to cure leukemia. So why is there a 20 day review provision on necessary care? Because they hope you die while waiting, that is much cheaper in the long run, even if it costs then a few extra years of care costs.

Whew!

R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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  #95 (permalink)
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It sounds so stressful dealing with these insurance companies. Just being sick and needing help is such a mountain of stress to begin with. I have only ever known the system I've grown up with and while it's not the best at least I never have to worry about dealing with that kind thing, I just can't imagine.

It's interesting to note that Canada and the US went in quite opposite directions after the 60s. Prior to that our economy was much 'freer'. We had lower taxes and fewer government agencies with mandates. It was in the 70's when the Liberals came into power that our government started to explode and take such an active role in managing the society. Taking care of people who need help and keeping them healthy though does seem to make everybody a little more relaxed though, that's what I think.

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  #96 (permalink)
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Ok... I read some posts in the beginning, and some towards the end. So, if someone else mentioned or answered some questions in the middle and i missed something... then just know i'm not trying to repeat it..

I was a premed student, beginning med school next year. Decided to take a year off. I have alot of family members that are doctors, neighbors, friends.... etc
I also have worked and volunteered at many doctors offices, plastic surgeons, and have worked and volunteered at some pretty big and famous hospitals( UCLA, Cedars...) I am very passionate about medicine, as much as trading.... If not, even more. I will continue to trade even after I'm done with med, but i love both.

I'm gonna answer some questions that came up..
First the money issue that ZTR asked.. He got a bill from the hospital for $100k+, but his insurance and hospital worked out a deal and the bill ended up coming to only $15k, where ztr only payed something like $2k
So honestly, the truth is that the bill you originally got for a $100k, thats truly not the cost at all for all the procedures. Its actually less than the bill you got for the $15k after the write off. What you saw is a very common practice, and almost all hospitals do it. See the the thing is that hospitals are really just another company, they have a board of directors, they have bills, and their job is to make revenue. They do this because of this exact scenario.
Person A and Person B come in to the ER in need of emergency care. Neither have health insurance, but Person A is middle class worker, while Person B has no money. By law, the hospital cannot turn either of them away knowing that the second person won't be able to pay the bills, and they have to and will treat both. So what happens to the bill for the person that has no money to his name(person B). He can't pay it. Well, instead of the hospital absorbing the cost, they pass that on to someone else that can pay it off, which is person B. Thats why you get these bloated charges such as $150 for a Tylenol(which you can buy from the drugstore for $3..) So that $100k bill that you got, its because the hospital is trying to cover their cost for all the people that can't pay the hospital. They do this to as many people as they can. Most people don't know that sometimes you can actually negotiate the bill with the hospital, kind of funny IMO.


Second, what you mentioned about your doctor waiting to the very last minute before giving you the correct type of care. Well, I can tell you that this is very common as well. Its actually so common, that most doctors are giving up practicing all together, or what most of the doctors that i know do here, is they get into cosmetics( Botox, plastic surgery...) Mainly because they can't keep up with the costs of malpractice insurance, waiting 6 months to get a payment from the insurance companies for a procedure that was done well over 6 months back( i'm not exaggerating at all on this one), and the fact that if they do want to help a patient, they realize that its ultimately truly up to the insurance companies. Every doctors works under the pretense of CYA...
I truly hate to say this. But your lucky that you had a doctor that understood the politics behind this whole mess, and he knew what he was doing. Most doctors don't. Most doctors don't know what and how to deal with insurance companies, and most patients unfortunately would not be where you are right now. Being a doctor is nothing like what most people think. Its not like how it is on TV. Not all of them are millionaires, trust me. Doctors are trained to help people, and they can't.

I honestly would love a public OPTION of healthcare, but I also do think there are other methods that they can actually incorporate which would be alot better. For example, here in California, besides Kaiser( which i'm not gonna even talk about), theres only 2-3 major health insurance companies. If the government makes it possible to have insurance companies from other states to compete with each other, well you can shop around at least, and the prices will be a bit more competitive. I do agree with what someone else mentioned, that health insurance will eventually turn into a tiered system, you get what you pay for. But, i think thats as good as it gets, and that will be a better system than what we have right now. Healthcare will just be buying insurance for your car.. Either you get all state or farmers, or you get THE GENERAL....

I think its sick that everything is about money. Doctors, patients, and even the insurance companies( yes i said it) themselves, they'r all fighting and striving and in the constant fear going bankrupt. But thats what this country is built on.. Money

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  #97 (permalink)
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Michael.H View Post
Ok...( yes i said it) themselves, they'r all fighting and striving and in the constant fear going bankrupt. But thats what this country is built on.. Money



Last edited by Big Mike; June 6th, 2010 at 07:30 PM. Reason: added yt tags
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  #98 (permalink)
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On the Lighter Side:

This guy walks up to the pearly gates and St.Peter asks him,"So why should you be allowed to enter heaven?" The guy says, " I was a doctor. I dedicated my whole life to healing people". Pete says, "OK, you can come in."

Next person walks up and is asked the same question. He answers, " I was a nurse. I dedicated my whole life to helping people get well." Again... Peter says, "You may enter".

Last person walks up to the gates and faces St.Peter. He is asked the the customary question, to which he answers, "I was a health insurance administrator. Like these other two, I dedicated my whole life to helping people with their healthcare." To which Peter replies, "OK, you can enter heaven...
but you can only stay three days."

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  #99 (permalink)
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Healthcare is an issue but more Government control has never fixed anything.

Can anyone pinpoint ANYTHING that the government is running and is in charge of, that is profitable and has fixed the problem? When I was a kid, before Medicare, Medicaid, -government intervention- we could afford to go to the doctor without it costing a second mortgage. So, if the government takes over healthcare, we will all lose! (Except for those in power in DC, and their families and friends. They always seem to take care of themselves and become exempt from it all!) Those in the government like spending money that is not their own. It is a big "piggy-bank" to them!

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  #100 (permalink)
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Michael.H View Post
Ok... I read some posts in the beginning, and some towards the end. So, if someone else mentioned or answered some questions in the middle and i missed something... then just know i'm not trying to repeat it..

I was a premed student, beginning med school next year. Decided to take a year off. I have alot of family members that are doctors, neighbors, friends.... etc
I also have worked and volunteered at many doctors offices, plastic surgeons, and have worked and volunteered at some pretty big and famous hospitals( UCLA, Cedars...) I am very passionate about medicine, as much as trading.... If not, even more. I will continue to trade even after I'm done with med, but i love both.

I'm gonna answer some questions that came up..
First the money issue that ZTR asked.. He got a bill from the hospital for $100k+, but his insurance and hospital worked out a deal and the bill ended up coming to only $15k, where ztr only payed something like $2k
So honestly, the truth is that the bill you originally got for a $100k, thats truly not the cost at all for all the procedures. Its actually less than the bill you got for the $15k after the write off. What you saw is a very common practice, and almost all hospitals do it. See the the thing is that hospitals are really just another company, they have a board of directors, they have bills, and their job is to make revenue. They do this because of this exact scenario.
Person A and Person B come in to the ER in need of emergency care. Neither have health insurance, but Person A is middle class worker, while Person B has no money. By law, the hospital cannot turn either of them away knowing that the second person won't be able to pay the bills, and they have to and will treat both. So what happens to the bill for the person that has no money to his name(person B). He can't pay it. Well, instead of the hospital absorbing the cost, they pass that on to someone else that can pay it off, which is person B. Thats why you get these bloated charges such as $150 for a Tylenol(which you can buy from the drugstore for $3..) So that $100k bill that you got, its because the hospital is trying to cover their cost for all the people that can't pay the hospital. They do this to as many people as they can. Most people don't know that sometimes you can actually negotiate the bill with the hospital, kind of funny IMO.


Second, what you mentioned about your doctor waiting to the very last minute before giving you the correct type of care. Well, I can tell you that this is very common as well. Its actually so common, that most doctors are giving up practicing all together, or what most of the doctors that i know do here, is they get into cosmetics( Botox, plastic surgery...) Mainly because they can't keep up with the costs of malpractice insurance, waiting 6 months to get a payment from the insurance companies for a procedure that was done well over 6 months back( i'm not exaggerating at all on this one), and the fact that if they do want to help a patient, they realize that its ultimately truly up to the insurance companies. Every doctors works under the pretense of CYA...
I truly hate to say this. But your lucky that you had a doctor that understood the politics behind this whole mess, and he knew what he was doing. Most doctors don't. Most doctors don't know what and how to deal with insurance companies, and most patients unfortunately would not be where you are right now. Being a doctor is nothing like what most people think. Its not like how it is on TV. Not all of them are millionaires, trust me. Doctors are trained to help people, and they can't.

I honestly would love a public OPTION of healthcare, but I also do think there are other methods that they can actually incorporate which would be alot better. For example, here in California, besides Kaiser( which i'm not gonna even talk about), theres only 2-3 major health insurance companies. If the government makes it possible to have insurance companies from other states to compete with each other, well you can shop around at least, and the prices will be a bit more competitive. I do agree with what someone else mentioned, that health insurance will eventually turn into a tiered system, you get what you pay for. But, i think thats as good as it gets, and that will be a better system than what we have right now. Healthcare will just be buying insurance for your car.. Either you get all state or farmers, or you get THE GENERAL....

I think its sick that everything is about money. Doctors, patients, and even the insurance companies( yes i said it) themselves, they'r all fighting and striving and in the constant fear going bankrupt. But thats what this country is built on.. Money

This post may of been written 2010 but its still relevent...

exactly..with buying into a healthcare insur plan like insur for your car...if u drive & own a car its manatory to insure it...same w healthcare, instead of patient A paying for patient's B..B..BBBBBBBBBBBB etc. Their will eventually be some sort of tier's of policy's manitory to buy into if u are human and live in the U.S.A

If u are a robot u still will suffer breakdowns.

When we started to distribute electricity to the outer reaches of main st populated towns people were all in an uproar stateing, it was the end of times as we know it..costly, dangerous, people would die...those liberals!!!

Now everones a liberal...dont forget to turn out the light.

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