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Overcoming Sleep Issues


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Overcoming Sleep Issues

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  #1 (permalink)
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I thought I'd start a thread on sleeping, given Big Mike's comment on a possible sleep disorder and a mention, I believe, of another futures.io (formerly BMT) contributor's sleep deprivation (and possible sleep apnea surgery)...

I think sleep is way underrated. It affects one's ability in so many areas, (trading being one, for sure), that I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

here are some suggestions of things to consider if you are having trouble sleeping well or regularly:
1. I have a feeling this will be the toughest one, but may hold the most weight: a regular sleep schedule helps not only kids but adults. LOL. I have similarly read that the timeframe of 10pm-2am has some of the most important, really deep sleep cycles.
2. Exercising regularly - at least 3x a week - can help the body physically relax and tire it enough to sleep better.
3. Not eating a large meal (particularly not huge steaks (protein)) late in the evening or just before bed helps
4. Some people who have not slept well for long enough might actually need "other" assistance... I prefer to start with natural things first myself. So:
a. warm milk (LOL) It works for some.
b. a high quality liquid Melotonin (I've tried several and found that Biometics has a really good product. http://www.biometics.com/pm_program.asp?page=pm I don't sell this, so don't think I do..)
c. Magnesium before sleep -- Many people are seriously deficient in magnesium, which not only calms, helps with mood control & sleep (great article on this site, too, on magnesium deficiency and the price is about the best I've seen): http://www.vitaminlady.com/pure-essence/ionic_minerals.asp#Magnesium

Thank you! to Mike and all the Market Wizards, Moderators and regular contributors, especially, who give so much to this site... Sleep well.

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Thanks goldi,

I've always had a hard time falling asleep, at least for as long as I can remember. I do have some prescribed medication but it's highly addictive so I only take it when I'm feeling real fidggity and know that I won't be able to sleep. I'll have to be sure and try some of those natural alternatives you mentioned.

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Just a few remarks to throw into the mix. In the Chinese medical tradition (which I studied quite a bit a decade ago and which is fascinating) the most important organ for sleep is the liver. In modern terms, a tidbit here is that something like 70% of the blood in the body goes down into the liver during deep sleep where it is processed/filtered/rejuvenates etc. (Don't quote me on the % number, but it is high.)

One issue with sleeplessness is dehydration, I suspect, esp. if one drinks a lot of sweet drinks, tea/coffee, alcohol since this make the liver functions harder to operate properly because of their diuretic effects - i.e. water is being flushed out so major organs and cells are not being properly nourished via the blood which is not getting sufficient intake of good water.

Water has to be 'structured' by the body to have sufficiently small molecular structure to be absorbed through cell membranes via the blood. So dehydration is probably a much bigger issue in general, and also with sleep problems in particular. Perhaps buying one of these new 'water structuring' machines is not a bad idea. They are very different from simple filtering systems.

If you have 'kicking leg' syndrome when unable to sleep, this is 100% reliable indicator of liver issues, most of which involve dehydration mentioned above because blood cannot go down to liver because blood is not properly constituted because insufficient intake of structured water. Fluid from the above drinks is almost impossible to process into structured water which is why it is eliminated and why dehydration occurs.

So along with exercise, diet etc. good to pay attention to dehydration/proper intake of water. At the least is a good idea starting an hour or so before going to bed to take in pure water.

Another thought: sometimes problems are there to be dealt with; in other words, the manifestation of something problematic/unhealthy is in fact a well-working natural alarm that things are out of whack meaning you have to pay attention. So just suppressing the problem with a drug, although it might work in the short run, is probably counter-productive. Best to pay attention to what is happening on all levels and see how best to return to better balance.

Sleep is nature's way of healing. Decent sleep eliminates most disease-forming situations. The major organs and blood systems have time to rest/repair/rejuvenate. It is very powerful 'natural medicine' in itself.

Assuming a normal schedule, the hours of the liver are 11-1 am with its brother organ gall-bladder from 1-3 am. Then comes the lung time from 3-5 am and large intestine from 5-7 (why one of the first things we do on awakening is in the bathroom on the you-know-what). So if you are going to bed after the natural liver time (again assuming you are on typical schedule and not working back shifts etc.), you are going to be throwing things out of whack. Also, it will make the mind unsettled and increasingly speedy since the liver is connected with the eyes and dreaming, also long-term planning and vision in that non-physical sense. So one thing to watch out for is getting into a routine of 'pushing the envelope' and going to bed after the liver time, especially if one is still getting up during the 'normal' 5-7 am period.

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I have a diagnosed chronic sleep disorder, Non-24-hour sleep-wake syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In this case it is a genetic issue which I have had all my life. My sleep cycle is around 4.5-5 hrs, I naturally wake up after that amount of time, fully alert, even if I was sleep deprived for 24 hrs or more beforehand.

Most people would think that is a good thing, not needing 8hrs of sleep.. but the problem is that it causes the sleep cycle to continually advance around the clock. I may be going to sleep at 7pm and waking up at midnight one week and going to sleep at 7am and waking up at noon the next. Then there are external influences that often force me to shift my schedule one way or the other, which causes my sleep patterns to be chaotic and quasi-periodic, actually when plotted it looks quite similar to market data.

I have learned to live with it over the years but it does make it rather difficult to have a 'normal' social life or work a regular job. That is one of the reasons I took up trading, very flexible hours =)

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Thanks for the thread Goldi , I am sure that a lot of people suffer from insomnia at some point intheir lives , what I have find helpful as a naturaopath , is Valerian : "The active ingredient in valerian is an amino acid and neurotransmitter called GABA, which can also be found in the brain. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, meaning that it prevents over excitation and instead promotes relaxation." taking it for 3 weeks and stopping for 2 weeks will help regulate the sleep cycle .
I would also strongly recommend lighter meals and brisk walks for 15 minutes after diner ,
Relaxing and meditating helps clear the mind and calm the spirit .
I hope it helps .
Cheers
soumi

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  #6 (permalink)
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The bio-nite, btw, has valerian in it. It isn't the easier thing to get, as it's network marketing. I know someone who can be contacted, but I'm unsure if that contact info is appropriate to put on this site.. ? So, another product (all natural, non addictive) that one can find -- the top seller at a local health store as being the most effective-- which *also contains Valerian - is called "Sound Sleep." Ingredients shown here: Gaia Herbs, Liquid Phyto-Caps, Sound Sleep, Extra Strength, 60 Liquid-Filled Capsules - iHerb.com A health food store by you ought to have it in stock. If you do try to reach for the liquid melotonin, try to be sure it also has Valerian in it --Soumi's comment about the Valerian is a really good one. It could be what makes that bio-nite so effective.

It's so cool to have a naturopath and someone as well versed in Chinese medicine as Soumi71 and cclsys on here..

@ CClsys: I like how you listed the times and the organs as it relates to Chinese medicine. It's good for anyone to notice if they always wake up at the same time.. and to find the correlating organ associated as cclsys listed them all thru the regular night hours. There is an emotion associated and certain ways of living or approaching things that could be addressed if one makes the correlation.

Liver is also associated with anger. And, since unfortunately that's the most culturally accepted emotion for men to access... so, if you find that anger is present often, again the liver is taking a hit. The emotional cleansing thread might be a good support in this case, too. Sam E has been said to offer a mood balancing and liver cleanse, which if taken on occasion can help keep the liver functioning at peak and the resulting anger somewhat toned down: @ Soumi71, I wonder if you have any opinions on that supplement? *if you're taking other medication, you really ought to check with your dr.

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Someone mentioned the liver. One thing I read about a couple years ago (I talked about it in this post and this post), is that each of the body's organs keeps its own sense of time. Obviously things work better when the body is more or less in sync with itself, but the liver in particular can take 2 weeks to adjust to a new schedule.

I outlined what I had culled from the net as best practices in those posts I linked above. It basically amounts to taking your body's evolutionary assumptions into account. All the artificial light and stimulation at night keeps your body confused about what time it is, so anything you can do to help it out goes a long way. At least for problems like I had (have?), I prefer to focus on these approaches before leaning on herbs for help. You know, "treat the problem and not the symptoms."

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"Liver is also associated with anger." Yup, and this is why:

there are five main types of energy/dynamic in daoist system/metaphysics too subtle and complex to get into on a single forum post. Suffice to say it's sort of like:

water flows
water has wetness
water changes with temperature
water has different effects with varying pressure situations
water absorbs
water has tendency to cooling and settling downwards.

All of the above are properties of water and quite different. Similarly, all organic systems have five main properties that are inter-relating with each other all the time as part of a larger dynamic/whole.

Liver/anger is because liver's main energy matrix involves one of the five principle ones that is involved with growth. There are five main types of energy which can be expressed as a wave with a line through the middle or a circle with a dot in the middle. Same idea.

Let's take the wave. It starts below the zero line and rises up. That is the rising yang (liver/wood/plant/growing) energy. Then it gets up towards the peak. The peak is fire/climax/heat/upper/heart energy. Then it goes down back towards zero line. That is lung/decreasing/condensing/concentrating/'metal' (particle) energy. Then it goes below to the bottom which is water/kidney/essence/cold/bones energy. So in fact the liver energy started from below once the kidney energy turns up. The zero line is the balance point which is earth/stomach-spleen-balance/binding together/muscles energy. In a clock circle, liver is sort of 7 - 11; fire is 11-1, metal is 1-5, water is 5-7. Earth is in the middle of the circle.

So liver is about yang rising, things moving up OR - when liver is resting - things not growing, things resting after growing. In the human day cycle we get up, do stuff, then rest. So the liver is involved with going forward, outward, upward etc, movement, vision, side-to-side action, fluidity (joints) etc. etc. In other words, it needs room to flex, to roam, to grow, to change, to flourish. It is also very cyclic, perhaps more so than any other. Obviously this is not just 'the liver' or 'liver energy' but in terms of the major visceral organs, the liver is the one that is most involved with that type of energy. All are involved with all types but some are the main stations on the line for a particular type when compared to the others which are the main stations on the line for a different type.

The anger in liver comes from a sense of being suppressed or limited. There are non liver types of anger. But basically anger is a response to feeling trapped or threatened, i.e. contained. There is also a sense of depression that goes with 'liver' energy: an inability to thrive. This is internalised/passive 'anger' versus externalised anger/frustration; both are fundamentally similar. The main hallmark of liver-type anger is a sense of frustration and impatience with that, or lack of spirit/giving up with that. What they have in common is a sense of flow/expansion being blocked.

But the key dynamic to 'grock' is that this type of energy is about flow, expansion, vision, growth, progression. When that is blocked for whatever reason, there is frustration/depression/agitation/discontent of whatever sort.

Sorry, but I find this stuff fascinating and still intend to study it further.

Actually, for a while I was trying to come up with a 5-energy trading method in which each component recorded only 1 main energy. That was where I got the idea for the RPM indicator: speed. So there is range, speed, volume, regularity/cyclicality, etc. I never could come up with five that made sense however, and dropped the idea. I still suspect there is something to it. My long-term system design was also based on combining non-correlated elements following a similar notion, but I could never put together more than two effectively (seasonality and trend).

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sefstrat: that sounds like quite an interesting body-mind setup you have! Diagnosis is simple albeit not helpful: clearly you come from a different planet on a different cycle and are not yet used to earth time. Give it a few more lives and you'll be fine!

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cclsys View Post
sefstrat: that sounds like quite an interesting body-mind setup you have! Diagnosis is simple albeit not helpful: clearly you come from a different planet on a different cycle and are not yet used to earth time. Give it a few more lives and you'll be fine!

[off-topic]
I knew someone able to write something like the "d9 Particle Oscillator" was not from Earth...
I've found sefstrat posting hours a bit strange, for someone in his timezone, now I know why !!!
[/off-topic]

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"Liver is also associated with anger. And, since unfortunately that's the most culturally accepted emotion for men to access..."

No disrespect or antagonism etc. but:

I find that a very strange remark on several levels not least of which is:

it is no longer culturally acceptable for men to get angry as far as I can tell, at least in developed West. In fact, the opposite.

Meanwhile, women seem to get angry just as much, if not more, and it is not regarded as remarkable at all, i.e. angry mother at children, angry wife at husband, angry woman at male-dominated society.

Don't get me wrong: speaking as a bona fide male your remark has not made me angry, but... I am not sure I am 'buying'.

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cclsys View Post
sefstrat: that sounds like quite an interesting body-mind setup you have! Diagnosis is simple albeit not helpful: clearly you come from a different planet on a different cycle and are not yet used to earth time. Give it a few more lives and you'll be fine!

Time is inherently limited, I surrender only to the limitless..

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cclsys View Post
"
No disrespect or antagonism etc. but:

I find that a very strange remark on several levels not least of which is:

Don't get me wrong: speaking as a bona fide male your remark has not made me angry, but... I am not sure I am 'buying'.


wow! I would not have intentionally opened that particular can of worms, for sure.

Just another thought on sleeping... and water: dehydration often leads to feelings of fatigue, which often prompts a person to eat -- which then, sometimes, (if eating late) can cause insomnia. So, again your emphasis on drinking enough water is a good one.

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Remove any obvious causes of insomnia: tea, coffee, TV in the evening, etc.. Take a hot bath with the essence of one plant from the following list :
Of course, these plants are taken as an infusion, or friction of essential oil on the skin. One of these plants is enough to make you sleep well like a baby.
 
you may google them to learn more , I managed to give the latin word for each

Linden (Tilia sylvestris), flowers and leaves This one is very good ( we give it to agitated babies ) very safe

Ballotta fetid (Ballotta foetida), flowers
Hawthorn (Crataegus oxyacantha), flowers
Wild thyme (Thymus serpyllum), flowering
Sweet Clover (Me \ ï \ otus officinalis), dried flowers
Passionflower (Passiflora incamata), leaves and flowers
Marjoram (Origanum majorana), flowering
Woodruff (Asperu ^ odorata), flowering
Birdsfoot trefoil (Lotus comiculatus), flowers
Poppy (Papaver rhoeas), flowers
Hops (Humulus lupulus) cones
Jasmin (Jasminus officinale) flowers
Lettuce (Lactuca sativa) leaf juice
Water lily (Nymphea lutea), flowers
Flowers orange (Citrus aurantium and Citrus vulgaris)
Primrose (Primula officinalis). flowers and roots:
Willow (Salix alba), buds and leaves
Vélériane (Valeriana officinalis) roots. From this, do not abuse it.
I strongly advise taking herbal teas than supplements , the herbal tea acts faster and taken before bedtime , will do the trick even better .

I wish you all happy sleeping
Cheers

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cclsys View Post
there are five main types of energy/dynamic in daoist system/metaphysics too subtle and complex to get into on a single forum post.

Do you recommend any particular references on this subject? I've done some study (not very deep I'm afraid) with the western 4-element system (leaving out "spirit"), but am not familiar at all with the 5-element eastern one.



Quoting 
Actually, for a while I was trying to come up with a 5-energy trading method in which each component recorded only 1 main energy.

You know, there was a time I was playing with a qabalistic indicator that tried to characterize market conditions in terms of their 10 sephirot. I dropped that effort after a while, but want to get back to it one day. Metaphorical systems of yore are more in-tune with the way the mind wants to work, I think. So, there can be some value in translating phenomena into those frameworks, though that's difficult for computers to do.

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If you want to try a herbal product, look into 5-HTP (Wikipedia it, I can't post the URL). It's relatively safe and works wonders for me. When I want to get a good night's rest, I take anywhere from 50 to 100mg and within 45 minutes, I'll be sleeping like a baby. You'll have some crazy vivid dreams on this stuff too, as the active ingredient in 5-HTP releases serotonin in your body. You can find it at any herbal/natural foods store.

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Richard View Post
Do you recommend any particular references on this subject? I've done some study (not very deep I'm afraid) with the western 4-element system (leaving out "spirit"), but am not familiar at all with the 5-element eastern one.




You know, there was a time I was playing with a qabalistic indicator that tried to characterize market conditions in terms of their 10 sephirot. I dropped that effort after a while, but want to get back to it one day. Metaphorical systems of yore are more in-tune with the way the mind wants to work, I think. So, there can be some value in translating phenomena into those frameworks, though that's difficult for computers to do.

Should be fine for computers if you can find measurable functions/values to define. For example:

if speed is increasing (one value easy for computer hard for live intellect) &
high > high[1] (price level compared with past) &
volume buys > volume sells &
cycles are in line &
average swing range > ATR *3

then buy.

So the five would be speed, price level direction, volume condition, timing condition, market range condition.

That is five, but not really in line with the 5 daoist energies. But I have not put enough thought into it. They are definitely there since they are everywhere.

Also, it's not a metaphysical system per se alone since its principles are used in both diagnosis and treatment, whether reading a heartbeat on the wrist, listening to voice, categorising imbalance/disease/balance symptoms, categorising meridian flows and needle combinations, categorising properties of herbs, categorising properties of combination of herbs, categorising effects particular needles/herb combinations with particular mix of symptoms/conditions. So it is both metaphysical and scientific, albeit using a noetic-based form of science which is currently verboten in the west the past century or so. It'll come back and when east meets west that way the boom in technology will be like nothing ever seen before. Assuming there are still sufficient humans around to appreciate such things!

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cclsys View Post
Just a few remarks to throw into the mix. In the Chinese medical tradition (which I studied quite a bit a decade ago and which is fascinating) the most important organ for sleep is the liver. In modern terms, a tidbit here is that something like 70% of the blood in the body goes down into the liver during deep sleep where it is processed/filtered/rejuvenates etc. (Don't quote me on the % number, but it is high.)
.

Regarding the liver, it is very adversely affected by the fructose in high fructose corn syrup. The metabolic pathways for fructose are almost identical to those of ethanol, and the damage caused, including fatty deposition within the liver is similar. So cut out the sugary crap, and especially the engineered "foods" sweetened with HFCS. There is an excellent presentation by Dr. Robert Lustig, Professor of Pediatrics, Div of Endocrinology UCSF. See it online at UCTV or on Youtube at:



Think about that the next time you guzzle a Coke®.

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I've had some trouble sleeping lately, and according to my Dr., if you're snoring, you're not sleeping well. To stop the snoring, I sleep with a chin strap on. It looks awful, but it works - I sleep better wearing it. Just a thought.

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All this liver talk is making me want to stop drinking

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I have had sleep issues and have been trying for decades to change it, now I just embrace it and work around it. If you cann't beat them join them I guess.

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Hi all. I know this is an old thread but I was going to post what is below in a thread
on exercise, but when I did a search I found this to be much more relevant.

I haven't read the posts here, at least not yet. My plan is to increase my aerobic
exercise starting this week in the hopes it will help my sleep and one or two other things.

- Stephen
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Article comments on exercise and sleep. Only some excerpts below:

Add one more benefit: sound sleep. Did you know that exercise can help you sleep sounder and longer and feel more awake during the day? It's true. But the key is found in the type of exercise you choose and the time you participate in it during the day.

Exercising vigorously right before bed or within about three hours of your bedtime can actually make it harder to fall asleep. This surprises many people; it's often thought that a good workout before bed helps you feel more tired. In actuality, vigorous exercise right before bed stimulates your heart, brain and muscles -- the opposite of what you want at bedtime. It also raises your body temperature right before bed, which, you'll soon discover, is not what you want.

When it comes to having a direct effect on getting a good night's sleep, it's vigorous exercise in the late afternoon or early evening that appears most beneficial. That's because it raises your body temperature above normal a few hours before bed, allowing it to start falling just as you're getting ready for bed. This decrease in body temperature appears to be a trigger that helps ease you into sleep.

The type of vigorous workout we're talking about is a cardiovascular workout. That means you engage in some activity in which you keep your heart rate up and your muscles pumping continuously for at least 20 minutes. Although strength-training, stretching, yoga, and other methods of exercise are beneficial, none match the sleep-enhancing benefits of cardiovascular exercise.

Link to page 1 of several page article, on getting betting sleep.

Discovery Health "Exercise and Sleep"

Page 1: Exercise and Sleep
Page 2: Sunlight and Sleep
Page 3: Stress and Sleep
Page 4: Napping and Sleep
Page 5: Diet and Sleep
Page 6: Sleep and Routine
Page 7: Preparing for Sleep
Page 8: Preparing Your Bedroom for Sleep
Page 9: What to Do When You Can't Sleep
Page 10: Techniques to Promote Sleep
Page 11: Choosing the Right Mattress
Page 12: Choosing the Right Pillow
Page 13: Controlling Your Sleep Environment
Page 14: Sleeping Away From Home

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Euro Leaders Sleepless Summits Seen Prone to Mistakes - Bloomberg

Extract:

Distorted Information

While the brain is still able to process information, the information may be distorted before it’s processed, Huettel said. One night without sleep can lead to increased activity in the regions of the brain that weigh positive outcomes, and decreased activity in areas that assess negative outcomes, according to an fMRI study of 29 people by Huettel and his colleagues published in the Journal of Neuroscience last year.

“If you make someone more attentive to good outcomes and less attentive to bad outcomes, it will look like they’re more risk-seeking than they are,” Huettel said in a telephone interview.

The trial, funded in part by Singapore’s Defense Science and Technology Agency, was the first to show that sleep loss could change the way the brain determines economic value, making people more likely to make choices that increased monetary gain and less likely to select options that reduced loss, the Duke researchers said.

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Last Updated on July 18, 2012


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