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Overcoming Sleep Issues
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Overcoming Sleep Issues

  #1 (permalink)
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Overcoming Sleep Issues

I thought I'd start a thread on sleeping, given Big Mike's comment on a possible sleep disorder and a mention, I believe, of another futures.io (formerly BMT) contributor's sleep deprivation (and possible sleep apnea surgery)...

I think sleep is way underrated. It affects one's ability in so many areas, (trading being one, for sure), that I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

here are some suggestions of things to consider if you are having trouble sleeping well or regularly:
1. I have a feeling this will be the toughest one, but may hold the most weight: a regular sleep schedule helps not only kids but adults. LOL. I have similarly read that the timeframe of 10pm-2am has some of the most important, really deep sleep cycles.
2. Exercising regularly - at least 3x a week - can help the body physically relax and tire it enough to sleep better.
3. Not eating a large meal (particularly not huge steaks (protein)) late in the evening or just before bed helps
4. Some people who have not slept well for long enough might actually need "other" assistance... I prefer to start with natural things first myself. So:
a. warm milk (LOL) It works for some.
b. a high quality liquid Melotonin (I've tried several and found that Biometics has a really good product. http://www.biometics.com/pm_program.asp?page=pm I don't sell this, so don't think I do..)
c. Magnesium before sleep -- Many people are seriously deficient in magnesium, which not only calms, helps with mood control & sleep (great article on this site, too, on magnesium deficiency and the price is about the best I've seen): http://www.vitaminlady.com/pure-essence/ionic_minerals.asp#Magnesium

Thank you! to Mike and all the Market Wizards, Moderators and regular contributors, especially, who give so much to this site... Sleep well.

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  #2 (permalink)
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Thanks goldi,

I've always had a hard time falling asleep, at least for as long as I can remember. I do have some prescribed medication but it's highly addictive so I only take it when I'm feeling real fidggity and know that I won't be able to sleep. I'll have to be sure and try some of those natural alternatives you mentioned.

Blz

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Just a few remarks to throw into the mix. In the Chinese medical tradition (which I studied quite a bit a decade ago and which is fascinating) the most important organ for sleep is the liver. In modern terms, a tidbit here is that something like 70% of the blood in the body goes down into the liver during deep sleep where it is processed/filtered/rejuvenates etc. (Don't quote me on the % number, but it is high.)

One issue with sleeplessness is dehydration, I suspect, esp. if one drinks a lot of sweet drinks, tea/coffee, alcohol since this make the liver functions harder to operate properly because of their diuretic effects - i.e. water is being flushed out so major organs and cells are not being properly nourished via the blood which is not getting sufficient intake of good water.

Water has to be 'structured' by the body to have sufficiently small molecular structure to be absorbed through cell membranes via the blood. So dehydration is probably a much bigger issue in general, and also with sleep problems in particular. Perhaps buying one of these new 'water structuring' machines is not a bad idea. They are very different from simple filtering systems.

If you have 'kicking leg' syndrome when unable to sleep, this is 100% reliable indicator of liver issues, most of which involve dehydration mentioned above because blood cannot go down to liver because blood is not properly constituted because insufficient intake of structured water. Fluid from the above drinks is almost impossible to process into structured water which is why it is eliminated and why dehydration occurs.

So along with exercise, diet etc. good to pay attention to dehydration/proper intake of water. At the least is a good idea starting an hour or so before going to bed to take in pure water.

Another thought: sometimes problems are there to be dealt with; in other words, the manifestation of something problematic/unhealthy is in fact a well-working natural alarm that things are out of whack meaning you have to pay attention. So just suppressing the problem with a drug, although it might work in the short run, is probably counter-productive. Best to pay attention to what is happening on all levels and see how best to return to better balance.

Sleep is nature's way of healing. Decent sleep eliminates most disease-forming situations. The major organs and blood systems have time to rest/repair/rejuvenate. It is very powerful 'natural medicine' in itself.

Assuming a normal schedule, the hours of the liver are 11-1 am with its brother organ gall-bladder from 1-3 am. Then comes the lung time from 3-5 am and large intestine from 5-7 (why one of the first things we do on awakening is in the bathroom on the you-know-what). So if you are going to bed after the natural liver time (again assuming you are on typical schedule and not working back shifts etc.), you are going to be throwing things out of whack. Also, it will make the mind unsettled and increasingly speedy since the liver is connected with the eyes and dreaming, also long-term planning and vision in that non-physical sense. So one thing to watch out for is getting into a routine of 'pushing the envelope' and going to bed after the liver time, especially if one is still getting up during the 'normal' 5-7 am period.

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I have a diagnosed chronic sleep disorder, Non-24-hour sleep-wake syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In this case it is a genetic issue which I have had all my life. My sleep cycle is around 4.5-5 hrs, I naturally wake up after that amount of time, fully alert, even if I was sleep deprived for 24 hrs or more beforehand.

Most people would think that is a good thing, not needing 8hrs of sleep.. but the problem is that it causes the sleep cycle to continually advance around the clock. I may be going to sleep at 7pm and waking up at midnight one week and going to sleep at 7am and waking up at noon the next. Then there are external influences that often force me to shift my schedule one way or the other, which causes my sleep patterns to be chaotic and quasi-periodic, actually when plotted it looks quite similar to market data.

I have learned to live with it over the years but it does make it rather difficult to have a 'normal' social life or work a regular job. That is one of the reasons I took up trading, very flexible hours =)

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Thanks for the thread Goldi , I am sure that a lot of people suffer from insomnia at some point intheir lives , what I have find helpful as a naturaopath , is Valerian : "The active ingredient in valerian is an amino acid and neurotransmitter called GABA, which can also be found in the brain. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, meaning that it prevents over excitation and instead promotes relaxation." taking it for 3 weeks and stopping for 2 weeks will help regulate the sleep cycle .
I would also strongly recommend lighter meals and brisk walks for 15 minutes after diner ,
Relaxing and meditating helps clear the mind and calm the spirit .
I hope it helps .
Cheers
soumi

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Dream more than others think practical.
Expect more than others think possible.
Care more than others think wise"
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  #6 (permalink)
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The bio-nite, btw, has valerian in it. It isn't the easier thing to get, as it's network marketing. I know someone who can be contacted, but I'm unsure if that contact info is appropriate to put on this site.. ? So, another product (all natural, non addictive) that one can find -- the top seller at a local health store as being the most effective-- which *also contains Valerian - is called "Sound Sleep." Ingredients shown here: Gaia Herbs, Liquid Phyto-Caps, Sound Sleep, Extra Strength, 60 Liquid-Filled Capsules - iHerb.com A health food store by you ought to have it in stock. If you do try to reach for the liquid melotonin, try to be sure it also has Valerian in it --Soumi's comment about the Valerian is a really good one. It could be what makes that bio-nite so effective.

It's so cool to have a naturopath and someone as well versed in Chinese medicine as Soumi71 and cclsys on here..

@ CClsys: I like how you listed the times and the organs as it relates to Chinese medicine. It's good for anyone to notice if they always wake up at the same time.. and to find the correlating organ associated as cclsys listed them all thru the regular night hours. There is an emotion associated and certain ways of living or approaching things that could be addressed if one makes the correlation.

Liver is also associated with anger. And, since unfortunately that's the most culturally accepted emotion for men to access... so, if you find that anger is present often, again the liver is taking a hit. The emotional cleansing thread might be a good support in this case, too. Sam E has been said to offer a mood balancing and liver cleanse, which if taken on occasion can help keep the liver functioning at peak and the resulting anger somewhat toned down: @ Soumi71, I wonder if you have any opinions on that supplement? *if you're taking other medication, you really ought to check with your dr.

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Someone mentioned the liver. One thing I read about a couple years ago (I talked about it in this post and this post), is that each of the body's organs keeps its own sense of time. Obviously things work better when the body is more or less in sync with itself, but the liver in particular can take 2 weeks to adjust to a new schedule.

I outlined what I had culled from the net as best practices in those posts I linked above. It basically amounts to taking your body's evolutionary assumptions into account. All the artificial light and stimulation at night keeps your body confused about what time it is, so anything you can do to help it out goes a long way. At least for problems like I had (have?), I prefer to focus on these approaches before leaning on herbs for help. You know, "treat the problem and not the symptoms."

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"Liver is also associated with anger." Yup, and this is why:

there are five main types of energy/dynamic in daoist system/metaphysics too subtle and complex to get into on a single forum post. Suffice to say it's sort of like:

water flows
water has wetness
water changes with temperature
water has different effects with varying pressure situations
water absorbs
water has tendency to cooling and settling downwards.

All of the above are properties of water and quite different. Similarly, all organic systems have five main properties that are inter-relating with each other all the time as part of a larger dynamic/whole.

Liver/anger is because liver's main energy matrix involves one of the five principle ones that is involved with growth. There are five main types of energy which can be expressed as a wave with a line through the middle or a circle with a dot in the middle. Same idea.

Let's take the wave. It starts below the zero line and rises up. That is the rising yang (liver/wood/plant/growing) energy. Then it gets up towards the peak. The peak is fire/climax/heat/upper/heart energy. Then it goes down back towards zero line. That is lung/decreasing/condensing/concentrating/'metal' (particle) energy. Then it goes below to the bottom which is water/kidney/essence/cold/bones energy. So in fact the liver energy started from below once the kidney energy turns up. The zero line is the balance point which is earth/stomach-spleen-balance/binding together/muscles energy. In a clock circle, liver is sort of 7 - 11; fire is 11-1, metal is 1-5, water is 5-7. Earth is in the middle of the circle.

So liver is about yang rising, things moving up OR - when liver is resting - things not growing, things resting after growing. In the human day cycle we get up, do stuff, then rest. So the liver is involved with going forward, outward, upward etc, movement, vision, side-to-side action, fluidity (joints) etc. etc. In other words, it needs room to flex, to roam, to grow, to change, to flourish. It is also very cyclic, perhaps more so than any other. Obviously this is not just 'the liver' or 'liver energy' but in terms of the major visceral organs, the liver is the one that is most involved with that type of energy. All are involved with all types but some are the main stations on the line for a particular type when compared to the others which are the main stations on the line for a different type.

The anger in liver comes from a sense of being suppressed or limited. There are non liver types of anger. But basically anger is a response to feeling trapped or threatened, i.e. contained. There is also a sense of depression that goes with 'liver' energy: an inability to thrive. This is internalised/passive 'anger' versus externalised anger/frustration; both are fundamentally similar. The main hallmark of liver-type anger is a sense of frustration and impatience with that, or lack of spirit/giving up with that. What they have in common is a sense of flow/expansion being blocked.

But the key dynamic to 'grock' is that this type of energy is about flow, expansion, vision, growth, progression. When that is blocked for whatever reason, there is frustration/depression/agitation/discontent of whatever sort.

Sorry, but I find this stuff fascinating and still intend to study it further.

Actually, for a while I was trying to come up with a 5-energy trading method in which each component recorded only 1 main energy. That was where I got the idea for the RPM indicator: speed. So there is range, speed, volume, regularity/cyclicality, etc. I never could come up with five that made sense however, and dropped the idea. I still suspect there is something to it. My long-term system design was also based on combining non-correlated elements following a similar notion, but I could never put together more than two effectively (seasonality and trend).

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sefstrat: that sounds like quite an interesting body-mind setup you have! Diagnosis is simple albeit not helpful: clearly you come from a different planet on a different cycle and are not yet used to earth time. Give it a few more lives and you'll be fine!

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cclsys View Post
sefstrat: that sounds like quite an interesting body-mind setup you have! Diagnosis is simple albeit not helpful: clearly you come from a different planet on a different cycle and are not yet used to earth time. Give it a few more lives and you'll be fine!

[off-topic]
I knew someone able to write something like the "d9 Particle Oscillator" was not from Earth...
I've found sefstrat posting hours a bit strange, for someone in his timezone, now I know why !!!
[/off-topic]

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