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Lance Armstrong not fighting doping charges
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Lance Armstrong not fighting doping charges

  #11 (permalink)
Fortitudo et Honor
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liquidcci View Post
Whether Lance doped or not who knows. But it is ridiculous 7 tour titles can be stripped when not one single doping test was ever failed out of hundreds. Witness account years later should not be enough. Kangaroo Court.

I don't blame him for not continuing to fight it and go to arbitration. It is kind of like trying to go to arbitration to fight your property taxes. You cannot win no matter how good your case.

I disagree.

He's consistently won his cases in the past because of the lack of evidence you cited. Now that 5 of his teammates and some of their spouses have come forward willing to testify, it's a little hard to argue. One guy is easy to discredit and brush off as jelous or vindictive. But when you talk about parading 6 or 7 witnesses into a court to testify that they were part of the doping program as well, it kinda puts a damper on your defense.

There's little doubt in my mind if Lance cheated....they all cheat....it's an arms race of doctors and performance enhancers and the lab tests that try to detect them, as well as chemical masks and things to throw off tests, timing your doping so that you skirt in under the radar, etc.

The problem I have with Lance is that he comes across as this holier than thou hero story.

It's like a bank robber showing up at the country club to look down his nose at all the other members as if he were God's gift to business and enterprise while the rest of them should bask in how great he is.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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  #12 (permalink)
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There has never...

been a shred of tangible evidence that says Armstrong did anything illegal, ever. Except, of course win SEVEN tours and defeat cancer.

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  #13 (permalink)
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wldman View Post
been a shred of tangible evidence that says Armstrong did anything illegal, ever. Except, of course win SEVEN tours and defeat cancer.


This is most disappointing that the powers that be simply could not believe a cyclist could be so dominant
without cheating. They finally wore him down...


AJ
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  #14 (permalink)
Fortitudo et Honor
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He all but admitted it in his pathetic rant about how the witchhunt against him was worse than blood transfusions and taking some EPO.

Cantador was busted recently for Clenburerol. They're all doping. It's simply the ones with the most resources to pay for the best doctors that are able to do it to the most extent.

Marion Jones never failed a drug test either. There's a whole laundry list of athletes who won medals and championships etc, and were never caught cheating during the time they were winning, only to be dinged later and when digging, everyone found out they'd been doping the entire time.

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RM99 View Post
He all but admitted it in his pathetic rant about how the witchhunt against him was worse than blood transfusions and taking some EPO.

Cantador was busted recently for Clenburerol. They're all doping. It's simply the ones with the most resources to pay for the best doctors that are able to do it to the most extent.

Marion Jones never failed a drug test either. There's a whole laundry list of athletes who won medals and championships etc, and were never caught cheating during the time they were winning, only to be dinged later and when digging, everyone found out they'd been doping the entire time.


Perhaps your right... a dirty player in a dirty world...


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  #16 (permalink)
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Cycling has always been known for doping....so is it cheating if every one's doing it?

I don't agree with it, I'm just saying.....

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  #17 (permalink)
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tderrick View Post
Perhaps your right... a dirty player in a dirty world...

And Marion Jones faced a hell of a lot more drug tests than Armstrong. Track athletes get tested randomly, but also after every race (if they win), which can be 20 -30 times over the course of a single season.

The doctors are simply ahead of the tests. They have all sorts of tricks up their sleeves. They can develop new drugs, which aren't caught by the current tests, develop chemical masks, which either invalidate or dupe the tests....they schedule doping around the athletes testing schedules....

So if the limit for testosterone to epitestosterone is 4:1 say, they can elevate those levels above the threshold in the offseason or between screenings and then quickly slide them back under when they know the athlete is likely to get a piss quiz.

It's big business. Balco and Victor Conte were making millions befer the entire thing was blown wide open.

The days of Lyle Alzedo and taking horse and bovine steroids and looking like a pro wrestler are long gone. Even drugs as harsh as Winstrol that Ben Johnson was taking, are a thing of the past.

In cycling, the performance enhancers are more to do with oxygen carrying capacity, drugs that elevate your hemoglobin counts, drugs that elevate your red blood cell counts, and to a lesser extent, drugs that help you recover quicker from races and injuries.

I accept that they're all doping. What I reject is someone who parades himself around in the media and movies and with his charity and proclaims to be some sort of honorable and heroic character that people should emulate. At least Barry Bonds wasn't parading himself around as the greatest baseball player ever or some sort of bastion of character and fortitude. It's one thing to cheat and lie (when confronted or questioned). It's quite another to go around overtly lying to everyone to make yourself and your business interests look better.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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  #18 (permalink)
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I saw an interview with him some time back. He knew this arbitration would be coming up. he said in that interview then that if he did not believe he could get a fair hearing, he wasn't gonna fight it anymore. The agency going after him has been on a witch hunt since he won the first Tour and he said in the interview he was sick and tired of fighting. He just wanted to live his life with his family.

I didn't believe he would fold but he did....in a way, after over 500 drug tests, many of them random, I'd be tired of fighting too. I think he made the right decision.

Did he dope? I have no idea. I don't care. I know most of his competitors did so it makes some sense that he did. However, its a known fact he's a freak of nature in terms of his physical structure, much like Micheal Phelps....so he has a gift and he worked hard to maximize it. I'm good with that....

I wish him well...

Even with doping, what are the odds he'd win 7 Tours? And back to back wins as well....there is some awesome talent there to pull that off, even with doping.

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  #19 (permalink)
Fortitudo et Honor
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PandaWarrior View Post
I saw an interview with him some time back. He knew this arbitration would be coming up. he said in that interview then that if he did not believe he could get a fair hearing, he wasn't gonna fight it anymore. The agency going after him has been on a witch hunt since he won the first Tour and he said in the interview he was sick and tired of fighting. He just wanted to live his life with his family.

I didn't believe he would fold but he did....in a way, after over 500 drug tests, many of them random, I'd be tired of fighting too. I think he made the right decision.

Did he dope? I have no idea. I don't care. I know most of his competitors did so it makes some sense that he did. However, its a known fact he's a freak of nature in terms of his physical structure, much like Micheal Phelps....so he has a gift and he worked hard to maximize it. I'm good with that....

I wish him well...

Even with doping, what are the odds he'd win 7 Tours? And back to back wins as well....there is some awesome talent there to pull that off, even with doping.

This is always the typical marginalization argument...."It's the Indian, not the bow." "Steroids don't help you hit home runs.." etc. The proof is in the pudding. If it didn't help, they wouldn't do it.

I'd have MUCH more respect for the guy if he came out as a bastion to clean up the sport and if his claim is that "EVERYONE is doing it." But that's not what he's claiming. He's pissing on our backs and telling us it's raining.

You could dismiss one or even two teammates willing to testify against him. Not 6 or 7.

Again, there are dozens of cases where athletes passed EVERY doping test only to be discovered later through some branch investigation (like with Balco) that they had been cheating the entire time. The fact that he passed every drug test doesn't hold much water.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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I partied with an olympic cyclist back in college, and he told me 99% of professional cyclist juiced. He said most of what he learned in olympic training camp was how to pass the PED drug tests lol. IMO if everyone else is doing it, you aren't "less" of a champion

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