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Hardheaded Socialism Makes Canada Richer Than U.S.


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Hardheaded Socialism Makes Canada Richer Than U.S.

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Even with their version of ObamaCare ... eh

Hardheaded Socialism Makes Canada Richer Than U.S. - Bloomberg


On July 1, Canada Day, Canadians awoke to a startling, if pleasant, piece of news: For the first time in recent history, the average Canadian is richer than the average American.
According to data from Environics Analytics WealthScapes published in the Globe and Mail, the net worth of the average Canadian household in 2011 was $363,202, while the average American household’s net worth was $319,970.
A few days later, Canada and the U.S. both released the latest job figures. Canada’s unemployment rate fell, again, to 7.2 percent, and America’s was a stagnant 8.2 percent. Canada continues to thrive while the U.S. struggles to find its way out of an intractable economic crisis and a political sine curve of hope and despair.
The difference grows starker by the month: The Canadian system is working; the American system is not. And it’s not just Canadians who are noticing. As Iceland considers switching to a currency other than the krona, its leaders’ primary focus of interest is the loonie -- the Canadian dollar.
As a study recently published in the New York University Law Review pointed out, national constitutions based on the American model are quickly disappearing. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, in an interview on Egyptian television, admitted, “I would not look to the United States Constitution if I were drafting a constitution in the year 2012.” The natural replacement? The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, achieving the status of legal superstar as it reaches its 30th birthday.

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We have a socialist president and it ain't working......so the answer must lie elsewhere.

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Well thanks for the posr, TMFT, makes me feel proud to be canadian!

Pete

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kbit View Post
We have a socialist president and it ain't working......so the answer must lie elsewhere.

@kbit

Dang ... all this time I thought Congress passed the laws ... throw out them dang Socialist House Republicans ...

BTW .... I love your magazine....






superpete View Post
Well thanks for the post, TMFT, makes me feel proud to be Canadian!

Pete

@superpete

When I first started traveling overseas ... the company told me to tell everyone I was Canadian ... they reasoned, "Nobody doesn't like Canadians."

O Canada! ....

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First off, you can't use average/mean values to evaluate any sort of socio-economic aspect.

If you were to use the "average" home value for an area, you might choke, till you realize that the upscale/gated community with homes that are 100, 500 and 1000 times the price of a typical home, skew the results.

That's why we use MEDIAN incomes. I won't bore you all with explaining the mathematical difference, you probably already know.

Secondly, these types of studies do very little to determine intangible things like, quality of life (even though there's metrics out there for that).

If the Candadian health care system is so wonderful, then why do rich Canadians and those that can afford it travel to the states to get either better/more specialized care, care sooner, etc?

Look up the average wait times for typical procedures in Canada. I dated a Canadian for several months. She said going to the doctor was a horrible and regrettable experience, as everything took forever.

Socialism is great if you're the dirt poor guy being lifted by it's aspects. Socialism is terrible if you're a self starting, independent and successful person.

Whenever I was in college and had a difficult concept to understand, a wise professor once told me..."take it to the extremes and that usually reveals trends and correlations that are linear in nature."

France is trying to implement even more socialism and business and jobs and wealth is running for the door. Places like Brussels and London are salivating and licking their chops.

Lastly, we've recently breached the threshold where our government spends more of our avaialable earnings than Canada does.

Canada also benefits from not having to spend virtually ANYTHING on defense (unless they absolutely want to do so, more out of some sense of self respect than anything).

Imagine how prosperous we would be if we didn't HAVE to spend a dime on defense......

I'm not bagging on Canada, I think of the industrialized world, it's great. I'm just saying I hate these stupid, biased reports/articles that try to make socialism seem to be some form of viable/potent solution.

You can track the downfall of America in everything from manufacturing to education by how "socialist" or statist we have become. We led the world back when we were a free market, Constitutionally bound nation.

People shouldn't bag on capitalism, mainly because we don't live in a capitalist nation...we live in a government-partnered crony capitalist society where corporations are in bed with government. (which is exactly what the founders predicted would happen when we started ignoring the Constitution they worked so hard and fought so hard to create).

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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RM99 View Post

1. If the Candadian health care system is so wonderful, then why do rich Canadians and those that can afford it travel to the states to get either better/more specialized care, care sooner, etc?

2. Canada also benefits from not having to spend virtually ANYTHING on defense (unless they absolutely want to do so, more out of some sense of self respect than anything).

3. Imagine how prosperous we would be if we didn't HAVE to spend a dime on defense......

@RM99

1. Because the USA has the best medical care available... as long as you can afford it. If you can't ... you die.

2. You realize Canadian troops have suffered casualties in Afghanistan ... right?

3. Which begs the question... why do we "have" to spend so much on defense? We spend more on defense than the next 7 nations combined. Perhaps we should stop starting wars....


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I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

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Like I said, capitalism isn't for everyone.

Our healthcare system/edge is actually declining because of the FDA. More and more, Americans embark on "medical tourism" to go around the world to get cutting edge treatments either not available in the U.S. at all, or at a much lower cost.

The cost of healthcare is a direct result of statist/socialist policy (as well as some other factors like legal challenges and tort reform, scope creep, etc).

Education used to be dirt cheap in this country. People used to be able to work during the day and pay for night or weekend classes with the disposable income they made while working. The days where a person could "work" their way through college (with no government assistance) are long gone...unless you're a coke dealer or a mortgage broker.

Big government types and socialists sold this notion that the government must step in and assist the poor in education and pumped massive amounts of money into the system. So what did colleges and universities do? They took full advantage by increasing their labor burdens, buying fancy research facilities, etc, etc. Having a $Zillion atom smashing machine is great if you're a nuclear researcher, but doesn't do much if you're a freshman taking 100 level World History.

The same is true for healthcare. The government keeps pumping soo much money into the system that the system now expands and charges both what the free market was willing to offer AND the additional money from the government.

The same problem is true for primary education. We dump hundreds of $BN's at the problem trying to make education work again, but it simply makes it more expensive, not better.

At any rate, the FDA is another "big government"/statist problem. The FDA is now inundated with lobbyists and former pharma and food conglomerate executives who are more interested in serving profits for their former and future masters than looking out for the well being of the citizenry. The FDA stonewalls new drugs and procedures and equipment and techniques that smaller firms and individuals with less resources (for lobbysists and bribes and campaign funding) in order to protect profits for the corporations that have all those corrupt resources.

Like all statist/liberal ideas, the FDA started out as a seemingly great idea (although it's unConstitutional in many aspects). Who doesn't want clean safe milk and meat products? But it's since grown (as all government/statist ventures do) to turn into the modern nightmare we face now where food companies poison the people and drug companies "fix" them with drugs....both making massive amounts of money in the process. Additionally, the FDA criminalizes small individuals like farmers who want to sell their excess milk and vegetables or a nutrionist who wants to blog about the benefits of a paleo diet (i.e. cutting into food conglomerate profits) or a person who wants to blog about the benefits of natural remedies and medicines (which cut into the profits of the pharma companies). We now end up with a system that villifies people like Dr. Byrzinski (you should watch the full length documentary) in order to try to steal his work and sell it to corporate interests, all the while, new cutting edge cancer therapies remain shelved or less accessible.

The problems with the American health system aren't capitalism, it's a lack of capitalism and complete government interference. Government seeks to socialize the cost of medicine, so that a healthy, young male who eats right and exercises and does not smoke, pays the same or similar health costs to the overweight, 35 year old female who's had 3 kids (and still doesn't have her tubes tied) and smokes a pack a day and doesn't even know what exercise is. The government refuses to allow competition among insurance companies in pools or across state lines....

why do you think when you watch television, every 30 seconds you see a commercial for auto insurance? Auto insurance is a VERY competitive market. That's because the government isn't pumping $BN's into it and because they let the free market provide good competition which gives consumers a great choice of cutting edge products and services.

Ron Paul (who's a practicing physician btw) said it best when he said that before the government got involved, people used to have insurance only for serious/significant medical events....they used to pay out of their pocket for routine and normal/common medical needs...because it was simply that cheap. Try walking into a clinic today to get a perscription for a Z pack. It costs a fortune (even if it's not you that ends up paying it).

Make no mistake, we were MUCH better off, even the little guy, before the big nanny government stepped in to try to save us from ourselves and each other. We had better products, better access less crony-capitalism to corporations and lived better lives for it.

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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Secondly, I'm not a Republican, I'm a libertarian.

Don't confuse "Defense spending" with military adventurism that we now employ.

Defense spending is spending money on capabilities to defend yourself from invasion and from legit, threats to your sovereignty and legit legal interests abroad.

What we have today is a military that's carrying out a vicious foreign policy that's outdated and reaches all the way back to the cold war with the soviets when the CIA discovered it could manipulate foreign governments and outcomes to the benefit of American interests (which are now corporate interests).

Having 900 military bases around the world is not defense spending. Fighting endless, unnecessary wars against propped up supposed threats (while really serving underlying alterior motives) is not defense spending.

My point was that Canada, like Japan, like Germany, etc, doesn't have to spend a dime on defense unless they really want to spend on that.

I'm not discounting the Canadian contribution to any conflict or their military. I'm simply pointing out that they spend a fraction of what we do, in much part because they can. They know that if someone ever tried to invade, we'd be there to take care of the problem, simply out of self interest (and of course, being a valued friend and neighbor).

If we simply had the luxury of spending at the level the Canadians do, our budgets, and our economy would be doing much better.

Japan has enjoyed this luxury since WWII....imagine how much worse they'd be doing if they had to spend 3-5% of their GDP on defense?

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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And this is coming from a guy who's lived on private insurance AND government health coverage.

When I was in the military, the healthcare coverage was comprehensive, but terrible. Try sitting at the Army hospital pharmacy for 5 hours waiting on a simple prescription for anti-biotics, because the waiting room is packed and the pharmacists have either been on break or lunch for the better part of 2 hours.

When you get ANYTHING from the government, you're not a paying customer. You're a number. You're a piece of paper. Don't like it? Tough. You ain't got no choice, so sit down and shut your mouth and be happy with what we give you. THAT is government healthcare.

For someone who cannot afford ANY healthcare, I guess that's an improvement.

But show me the person who cannot afford healthcare and I'll show you someone who owns a color television set, drives a car that's beyond their needs, lives in a house that's beyond their needs, spends money on cable television, cell phones, cell phone plans, Red Bull, cigarettes, buys clothes from the mall and department stores rather than low cost retailers or even goodwill, spends money on soda and junk food, lottery tickets, etc, etc, etc.

There are VERY few people in America who are truly impoverished. Only in America can someone claim to be in poverty, but be overweight and own a color television set and have a working cell phone.

The problem with America is that we have a generation of entitled/spoiled citizens with no concept of individual responsibility or priorities or even the concept that the system doesn't owe them a living (let alone a comfortable living).

I see people all the time who claim they can't afford to pay their bills, then they turn around and make the dumbest, most extravagent purchases ever.

And why? Because the SYSTEM makes it that way. JP Morgan Chase loves food stamps. They make a bundle off of them. So does Wal Mart. Wal Mart makes up to 40% of their annual revenue from food assistance. 40%!

Here in Florida, there's big debates ongoing about the limitations that should be placed on food assistance, and why people who are supposedly needy should be able to buy coca-cola, or candy bars, or energy drinks, or junk food, etc. Do those sound like the purchases of someone who's starving or needy? And you get Democrats and big government proponents who come out of the woodwork arguing against limiting purchases for food assistance cards.

THEN, in an even more SINISTER twist, you get Republicans who feign to support such restrictions, but behind closed doors, get lobbied by said companies (like Coke and junk food manufacturers) and the like, to let the whole thing slide.

The whole system is corrupt because we don't follow our Constitutional principles. We abandoned this notion that freedom and liberty were all that you need and the rest is up to you (or those willing to voluntarily help you).

Capitalism isn't the problem. We don't live in a capitalist system. We live in a basterdized version where capitalism whores itself out to corporate interests disguised and veiled by the notions of social interest and general welfare.

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RM99 View Post

1. Try sitting at the Army hospital pharmacy for 5 hours waiting on a simple prescription for anti-biotics, because the waiting room is packed and the pharmacists have either been on break or lunch for the better part of 2 hours.

2. For someone who cannot afford ANY healthcare, I guess that's an improvement.


3. Here in Florida ....

@RM99

1. Been there... done that ...

2. I pay for my own insurance, but if they repeal the Affordable health Care Act .. no one will sell me insurance.... at any price ... and you will be deprived of these informative posts...

3. Wait ... what ... you are in Florida ... Dang ... I thought you were in Austin ... now I understand ....

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ThatManFromTexas View Post
@RM99

1. Been there... done that ...

2. I pay for my own insurance, but if they repeal the Affordable health Care Act .. no one will sell me insurance.... at any price ... and you will be deprived of these informative posts...

3. Wait ... what ... you are in Florida ... Dang ... I thought you were in Austin ... now I understand ....

I moved back to FL, just haven't updated the futures.io (formerly BMT) profile yet.

There are valid parts of the PPACA. I don't think insurance companies should be able to simply and arbitrarily "drop" people, especially those that have been loyal customers for some time.

I think that if we're going to do public and forced charity, then children up to age 18 ought to be covered.

But I see the rest of the PPACA is simply an extension of this....

"Much of the social history of the Western world over the past 3 decades has been replacing what WORKED with what sounded good."

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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RM99 View Post
I moved back to FL, just haven't updated the futures.io (formerly BMT) profile yet.

There are valid parts of the PPACA. I don't think insurance companies should be able to simply and arbitrarily "drop" people, especially those that have been loyal customers for some time.

I think that if we're going to do public and forced charity, then children up to age 18 ought to be covered.

But I see the rest of the PPACA is simply an extension of this....

"Much of the social history of the Western world over the past 3 decades has been replacing what WORKED with what sounded good."

@RM99

Hey... don't forget about coverage for us old guys with bad tickers...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

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@RM99

Hey... don't forget about coverage for us old guys with bad tickers...

It's not that I'm not sympathetic or empathetic....but what's worse? Allowing sick or dying people to go without coverage....or allowing the sick or dying to rob someone else at gun point to pay for their care?

If you vote for a law that allows the government to confiscate one person's property in order to pay for benefits for yourself, it's no different than walking up to a random stranger and robbing them at gunpoint....it's simply less personal. If the government passes a law that forces people to subsidize others, then they must do so, or eventually face violence from their own government (inprisonment if they refuse, or even violent death if they refuse inprisonment).

You should also checkout a recent article I read about how the top 10% of medicare consumers are eating up over half the medicare expenditures. There were cases where the state spent $2M+ on a single person. How much is too much to spend on a single person? Who decides that? You? A group of people like you? "Death panels" are real.

The next logical progression, is that if the state is responsible for the cost burdens of high healthcare consumers...and those recipients do not bear the burden of their own choices, then the state, has a vested interest in curbing unproductive and bad behavior.

This naturally leads to the mayor of NYC wanting to ban soda and soft drinks. Next will be laws about how much TV you can watch. Whether or not you can use a tanning bed. How much exercise you MUST perform each day. What you can and cannot eat. How much fast food you can eat in a prescribed period....etc...etc.

People ought to have the liberty to make their own bad choices (like eating too much, or smoking or having unprotected sex and contracting HIV, etc) and also bear the consequences of those burdens.

I'm not saying YOU are in your position because of bad choices, but you have to admit that a good majority of unhealthy Americans are unhealthy not because of circumstance, but bad habits and choices.

Furthermore, the baby boomer generation is going to bankrupt this country so that they can live an extra 2 or 3 years on average, with little to no consideration for what quality of life they will live in those final 2 or 3 years. Is it worth spending $300k on an elderly person to get both hips and both knees and both shoulders replaced? So that they can spend the rest of their days in physical therapy? Is it worth the toll it takes on a person who's in need of dialysis? Transfusions?

Then there's the next input which is the conflict of interest with respect to patient choice and doctor diagnosis. It's easy for a doctor to prescribe things like gastric bypass and total knee replacement and all these expensive things when it's the state (aka the taxpayer) who has to pay for them. Do you think they'd be handing out all these procedures and doing all these expensive tricks and prescriptions and what not if the recipient had to pay for them? No, most patients would say...."I can't afford that...."

Which brings you to the final consideration....what did people do before all this expensive healthcare was available? What was their quality of life like? I recently lost both of my grandparents and I can tell you from watching one of them in a hospice/nursing home for awhile...I'm not sure that modern medicine has considered dignity and quality of life in their efforts to extend someone's life. What use is it to live longer if you're totally dependent upon others and machines and medicines that have worse side effects than the ailments...etc?

These are all tough questions.....and probably not many easy solutions....but I do know that if I was sick, I wouldn't rob someone else to pay for my care.

Lastly, the "system" before the government became so involved was cheaper and more accessible. Charity had much greater and further applications.

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RM99 View Post
It's not that I'm not sympathetic or empathetic....

I beg to differ...

but what's worse? Allowing sick or dying people to go without coverage....or allowing the sick or dying to rob someone else at gun point to pay for their care?

When was the last time you saw someone with stage 4 cancer robbing someone...

If you vote for a law that allows the government to confiscate one person's property in order to pay for benefits for yourself, it's no different than walking up to a random stranger and robbing them at gunpoint....it's simply less personal. If the government passes a law that forces people to subsidize others, then they must do so, or eventually face violence from their own government (inprisonment if they refuse, or even violent death if they refuse inprisonment).

You are aware Obamacare requires everyone to buy insurance... right

You should also checkout a recent article I read ...

I don't think I want to read whatever it is you read ...

How much is too much to spend on a single person? Who decides that? You? A group of people like you? "Death panels" are real.

You better hope it's not a bunch of young libertarians ... or you'll end up in the cattle car with the rest of us old timers....

The next logical progression, is that if the state is responsible for the cost burdens of high healthcare consumers...and those recipients do not bear the burden of their own choices, then the state, has a vested interest in curbing unproductive and bad behavior.

You are aware Obamacare requires everyone to buy insurance... right

This naturally leads to the mayor of NYC wanting to ban soda and soft drinks. Next will be laws about how much TV you can watch. Whether or not you can use a tanning bed. How much exercise you MUST perform each day. What you can and cannot eat. How much fast food you can eat in a prescribed period....etc...etc.

"Rudy" Giuliani closed all the strip clubs in Manhattan once... I really hated him...

People ought to have the liberty to make their own bad choices (like eating too much, or smoking or having unprotected sex and contracting HIV, etc) and also bear the consequences of those burdens.

What do we do with the bodies when they die in the streets... wait for heavy trash pickup?

I'm not saying YOU are in your position because of bad choices, but you have to admit that a good majority of unhealthy Americans are unhealthy not because of circumstance, but bad habits and choices.

Did I mention I was riding my mountain bike when I had a heart attack... I was bummed out ... the guy in the ICU next to me was a Vegan Yoga instructor ... he was REALLY bummed out...

Furthermore, the baby boomer generation is going to bankrupt this country so that they can live an extra 2 or 3 years on average, with little to no consideration for what quality of life they will live in those final 2 or 3 years. Is it worth spending $300k on an elderly person to get both hips and both knees and both shoulders replaced? So that they can spend the rest of their days in physical therapy? Is it worth the toll it takes on a person who's in need of dialysis? Transfusions?

Which generation are you in... at what point in your life should we start to deny medical treatment for you...

Then there's the next input which is the conflict of interest with respect to patient choice and doctor diagnosis. It's easy for a doctor to prescribe things like gastric bypass and total knee replacement and all these expensive things when it's the state (aka the taxpayer) who has to pay for them. Do you think they'd be handing out all these procedures and doing all these expensive tricks and prescriptions and what not if the recipient had to pay for them? No, most patients would say...."I can't afford that...."

How much would you pay if you needed a procedure to save your life...

Which brings you to the final consideration....what did people do before all this expensive healthcare was available?

They died way to young....

These are all tough questions.....and probably not many easy solutions....but I do know that if I was sick, I wouldn't rob someone else to pay for my care.

Don't worry ... the death panels would have already dealt with you long before then...

Lastly, the "system" before the government became so involved was cheaper and more accessible. Charity had much greater and further applications.

Soooo .... begging is acceptable ... but having the right to buy insurance is not ....

Don't libertarians believe doctors should charge as much as they want to...



@RM99

The Point ... You Missed it



The entire world is not a bunch of deadbeats looking for new ways to waste your tax dollars... that is what Congress is for...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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  #17 (permalink)
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There's absolutely no difference fundamentally between robbing someone at gun point and voting to have the government force them to give their money to you and others. The only difference is that you're using the services of an armed thug called the government to do it....so it seems removed and less personal.

"Its amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness.

People need to be fed, medicated, educated, clothed, and sheltered, and if were compassionate well help them, but you get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right. There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint." -Penn Jillette

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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RM99 View Post
There's absolutely no difference fundamentally between robbing someone at gun point and voting to have the government force them to give their money to you and others. The only difference is that you're using the services of an armed thug called the government to do it....so it seems removed and less personal.

"Its amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness.

People need to be fed, medicated, educated, clothed, and sheltered, and if were compassionate well help them, but you get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right. There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint." -Penn Jillette

@RM99

Ok so once you have killed off the old, the sick and the poor... what do you do when they come for you...

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
@RM99

Ok so once you have killed off the old, the sick and the poor... what do you do when they come for you...

When who comes for me? I'm not killing anyone. If you think it's right to help someone who's sick or needy, it's your American liberty to do so. We have families, communities, charities, etc.

The better question is that if it's okay for a group of citizens to decide that other people have too much money and we should take some of their money to give to those the mob deems as more worthy, then what's to stop them from taking MORE money, for other popular ideas that are less compelling?

"Beware of the government that's large and powerful enough to give you everything you want, it's also large and powerful enough to take everything that you have."

Beyond the philosophical debate, the pragmatic and practical issues are simply overwhelming. It's how we got ourselves into the current crony-capitalist state we're in. People thought it would be a good idea to open the door and allow more government into their lives....

"When government officials decide what's to be bought and sold, the first thing to be bought are government officials."

"A dumb man never learns. A smart man learns from his own failure and success. But a wise man learns from the failure and success of others."
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RM99 View Post
When who comes for me? I'm not killing anyone. If you think it's right to help someone who's sick or needy, it's your American liberty to do so. We have families, communities, charities, etc.

I thought I heard you say ... Bah Humbug....

The better question is that if it's okay for a group of citizens to decide that other people have too much money and we should take some of their money to give to those the mob deems as more worthy, then what's to stop them from taking MORE money, for other popular ideas that are less compelling?

I think it's called taxes ....


Beyond the philosophical debate, the pragmatic and practical issues are simply overwhelming. It's how we got ourselves into the current crony-capitalist state we're in. People thought it would be a good idea to open the door and allow more government into their lives....

I thought it was from a bunch of Robber Barons getting greedy and almost tanking the world economy...

@RM99



One day ... you too will need a helping hand ... when that day comes... I hope someone extends one ... instead of stepping over you and keep on walking ...

Now I am humble who once was proud... now I am silent who once was loud ...

I hope you find peace one day my friend ... and I wish you the best ...

Regards,
TMFT

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
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