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2012 Election

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  #401 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
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on a more serious note:


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 syxforex 
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Does that mean you would not vote for Johnson or Paul or a true Libertarian? You are in the Romney camp, status quo, all hail the Fed and the Elite class?


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on a more serious note:



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 Silvester17 
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syxforex View Post
Does that mean you would not vote for Johnson or Paul or a true Libertarian? You are in the Romney camp, status quo, all hail the Fed and the Elite class?

sorry, not posting personal opinions, only facts.

 
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 Zondor 
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to do more damage to African Americans than any Republican could have ever dreamed of!


ba radio commentary | Black Agenda Report


But that's OK, if you are not one of his corporate cronies he screwed you too!

Don't worry, Romney would not be any different, although the Dems might appear to give him some feeble opposition.

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Effective tax rate including undisclosed income:


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 syxforex 
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RUSE

French, from Old French, roundabout path taken by fleeing game, trickery, from reuser


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 Cloudy 
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Latest from the deputy "ministerlady of propaganda". Fun to watch the slick presentation


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 monpere 
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Cloudy View Post
Latest from the deputy "ministerlady of propaganda". Fun to watch the slick presentation


Seems pretty honest, genuine and straight forward to me. To be fair, now I want to see the Romney campaign manager's video response with their numbers... and please no 'we built that' chants, or old men talking to empty chairs, or old action stars actually saying voting for the opposition will be 'the first step to 1000 years of darkness'... Really? In my entire adult life I've never seen such a ridiculous campaign from the republican party (including McCain/Palin). It's almost like they are no even trying to win.

 
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 Cloudy 
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Sure, I would agree with many of the particularly chosen points she makes about Romney (if not Obama) in this and her previous announcements. Maybe one of the worst out of touch candidates ever to "win" the gop primary. It's the amazing feeling of the ad with all the red/white&blue which feels imo like some kind of sci-fi story alternate America media. She does seem like an intelligent "true believer" far better than the Palin joke. (And a commentary hottie (in a kbit link way))

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 syxforex 
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https://www.businessinsider.com/obama-ad-47-percent-romney-singing-campaign-middle-class-2012-9


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Oh Sam...

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 websouth 
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nice video...reminded me of something...

"Nearly all children nowadays were horrible. What was worst of all was that by means of such organizations as the Spies they were systematically turned into ungovernable little savages, and yet this produced in them no tendency whatever to rebel against the discipline of the Party. On the contrary, they adored the Party and everything connected with it... All their ferocity was turned outwards, against the enemies of the State, against foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals. It was almost normal for people over thirty to be frightened of their own children."

- George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 2

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 syxforex 
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George Orwell, in his novel “1984″, provides us a name for this terrible illness afflicting Romney. He called it “doublethink,” “the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

As Orwell puts it:

“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which canceled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, … to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself — that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed.”

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 kbit 
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The Free Shit Army marches on. I always wondered how the people in West Philly could all afford cell phones. Now I know. They can’t. You and I are paying $1.8 billion per year because they deserve the latest iPhone 5. Check out your monthly phone bill and notice the charge called FEDERAL UNIVERSAL SERVICE FUND. That’s your “contribution” to the Obama phone fund. A family of four making $31,000 per year qualifies for an Obama phone.



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 syxforex 
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It is false to compare food stamps and health care to Orwell's writings against totalitarianism. I'm not advocating either, just saying it is a false comparison and upsetting that people label Democrats with hateful language through false analogies. I think Orwell deserves more respect than that. Corporate fascism is the face of Orwell's totalitarian rule today, not food stamps.


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 kbit 
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Soros Gives $1 Million to Democratic 'Super PAC' - NYTimes.com

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 Jedi 
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syxforex View Post



George Orwell, in his novel “1984″, provides us a name for this terrible illness afflicting Romney. He called it “doublethink,” “the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

As Orwell puts it:

“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which canceled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, … to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself — that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed.”

Romney seems like an overall decent guy but politics will certainly magnify your imperfections and I'm sure Romney wants it really bad..

If you like 1984, you should read some novels on how Stalin dealt with people and dissonance.. Its like 1984 in real life.. Ironically, religious organizations also have a strong history of operating that way.. like 1984

 
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 websouth 
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syxforex View Post
It is false to compare food stamps and health care to Orwell's writings against totalitarianism. I'm not advocating either, just saying it is a false comparison and upsetting that people label Democrats with hateful language through false analogies. I think Orwell deserves more respect than that. Corporate fascism is the face of Orwell's totalitarian rule today, not food stamps.

Ummmm.... no its not. You are playing semantics. Potato Potaato. totalitarianism. corportism. corruption backed by force. The two quotes below should make my point. No hate towards anyone here. Especially someone attached to a label like democrat which has changed meaning so much over the years. Not sure of the current definition. This is part of the problem. Red team. Blue team. These are your only choices...? Umm no. But then we have always been at war with Eurasia what do I know. You must work for the Ministry of Truth...? j/k


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

The Oceanian province of Airstrip One is a world of perpetual war, omnipresent government surveillance, and public mind control, dictated by a political system euphemistically named English Socialism (Ingsoc) under the control of a privileged Inner Party elite that persecutes all individualism and independent thinking as thoughtcrimes.[2] Their tyranny is headed by Big Brother, the quasi-divine Party leader who enjoys an intense cult of personality, but who may not even exist. Big Brother and the Party justify their rule in the name of a supposed greater good.


Try reading Lysander Spooner, Frederic Bastiat, etc. Visit mises.org

------------------------------------

How To Identify Legal Plunder

“See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.”

--Frederic Bastiat


In a sense there have always and ever been only two political philosophies: liberty and power. Either people should be free to live their lives as they see fit, as long as they respect the equal rights of others, or some people should be able to use force to make other people act in ways they wouldn't choose.

----D Boaz

The fight is not about team red vs team blue.


The History of Libertarianism | Libertarianism.org

PS - This is foolish trolling on my part and this will never be settled on the internet. Maybe you will find some of my links/views interesting. If not - peace to you my friend.

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 syxforex 
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How To Identify Legal Plunder

“See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.”

Voting for Romney on this stance seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. The argument is just too dumbed down, and it seems untruthful if the purpose is only to trick the lay person into voting against their own true interests. It is easy for the lay man to grasp this concept of taking and giving, stealing, or redistributing, from within the context of foodstamps. Easy to connect the dots there. The truth in the system is not so obvious. What is subsidizing a Monsanto crop planting factory farm (one of Romney's first and greatest successes as single owner and shareholder in Bain)? Is this is taking from one and giving to another. If that corn ends up in the checkout line at a foodstamp counter then who is taking and giving from whom? And what do you call printing money to inflate the wealthy, or too big to fail banks as a status quo?

The system is not what it was meant to be according the Libertarian model, obviously. It is controlled by the elite and globalist corporations and those who do not care about the constitution or rights. I'm not really sure if the system can really go back to first principles, not as a the global hegemony the US is today. It is no longer a closed loop. The government is controlled by globalists corporations. What really irks me is people like Mitt Romney, whose first allegiance is to the globalist mega corporations, waving the flag of the founding fathers and claiming some kind of partisan ownership over it. It's a lie, plain and simple, Ron Paul and true libertarians don't believe in Romney. The way I see it, at least the Democrats are honest about where they actually stand and who they represent. I don't see how another elite President like Bush, another one percenter, an investment banker, the Monsanto man himself, is going to roll things back to the way they were supposed to be under the rule of law and of the constitution in the day before global corporations took over. I only see it getting worse and more of the same.

The global corporations and elitists Romney represents are only as strong as they are because they are allowed to prosper under the safety and protection afforded them as US companies. They would not have survived or built their empires in countries where there freedom and security is absent. They would not have been able to build their empires stalinist countries like China. And who protects those freedoms and those rights. The people do, obviously. And those same corporations that have gained so much advantage from being American are going to gut those people until they are as poor as the middle class in China, a horrible communist country where people have no rights, etc... It's just horrible. And that's where Romney's allegiance is, with the globalist corporations. If you step back and look at the bigger picture you can see who is really doing the lion's share of the taking and the giving, and it aint Bill and Betty foodstamp.

'In a sense there have always and ever been only two political philosophies: liberty and power. Either people should be free to live their lives as they see fit, as long as they respect the equal rights of others, or some people should be able to use force to make other people act in ways they wouldn't choose.

----D Boaz"

The problem in a world of corporate fascism lead by US hegemony is of the certain arbitrage of rights taking place. If you really believed in what Boaz is saying then every American corporation should be banned from basing their business operations in countries that do not adhere to the same rights of man. Otherwise, this is a meaningless argument, and quite simply the people of the US have everything taken from them, by these corporations they serve and protect. Romney has made great fortunes in this game of international rights arbitrage, yet, shamelessly, he claims that he is the party of freedom and liberty. This is double speak. I detest it. I don't detest Romney. I do think he is a good guy, a good investment banker for sure, it's just the double speak really bothers me. For me honesty is the everything. I don't necessarily agree with the Democrats policies everywhere but I know they are honest about what they stand for. At least that's the impression I have. If I am wrong somewhere please show me.

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 syxforex 
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I would just say lastly, that' right now if I even had a vote, I would waste it on Ron Paul, anyways,,, done with crooks

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 liquidcci 
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@syxforex

You really sound very anti-american. Our system is not perfect and corporations are not perfect but it has produced one of the highest standard of livings and largest middle classes in the history of the world. While I would not want to be poor believe me the poor in the U.S. are better off than the poor in much of the world. In many places if you own any type of car you are considered to be doing well. Sorry but the U.S even with all it's problems is still the land of opportunity. Everyone has a chance at upward mobility and may even hit it big. These evil corporations you speak of have created countless good paying jobs allowing people to put kids through college, buy cars, houses and generally enjoy life. I have traveled the world and have seen poverty that makes your stomach turn and freedoms trampled on in ways that are astounding. When I come home after seeing these things I feel like kissing the ground. Sorry but I refuse to buy into much of the propaganda you are putting up running down the United States. Proud citizen of the land of the free and the home of the brave. Thank God for the opportunities being born here has put in front of me. Thankful for the corporations that hired me allowing me to get in position to then start my own business.



syxforex View Post
How To Identify Legal Plunder

“See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.”

Voting for Romney on this stance seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. The argument is just too dumbed down, and it seems untruthful if the purpose is only to trick the lay person into voting against their own true interests. It is easy for the lay man to grasp this concept of taking and giving, stealing, or redistributing, from within the context of foodstamps. Easy to connect the dots there. The truth in the system is not so obvious. What is subsidizing a Monsanto crop planting factory farm (one of Romney's first and greatest successes as single owner and shareholder in Bain)? Is this is taking from one and giving to another. If that corn ends up in the checkout line at a foodstamp counter then who is taking and giving from whom? And what do you call printing money to inflate the wealthy, or too big to fail banks as a status quo?

The system is not what it was meant to be according the Libertarian model, obviously. It is controlled by the elite and globalist corporations and those who do not care about the constitution or rights. I'm not really sure if the system can really go back to first principles, not as a the global hegemony the US is today. It is no longer a closed loop. The government is controlled by globalists corporations. What really irks me is people like Mitt Romney, whose first allegiance is to the globalist mega corporations, waving the flag of the founding fathers and claiming some kind of partisan ownership over it. It's a lie, plain and simple, Ron Paul and true libertarians don't believe in Romney. The way I see it, at least the Democrats are honest about where they actually stand and who they represent. I don't see how another elite President like Bush, another one percenter, an investment banker, the Monsanto man himself, is going to roll things back to the way they were supposed to be under the rule of law and of the constitution in the day before global corporations took over. I only see it getting worse and more of the same.

The global corporations and elitists Romney represents are only as strong as they are because they are allowed to prosper under the safety and protection afforded them as US companies. They would not have survived or built their empires in countries where there freedom and security is absent. They would not have been able to build their empires stalinist countries like China. And who protects those freedoms and those rights. The people do, obviously. And those same corporations that have gained so much advantage from being American are going to gut those people until they are as poor as the middle class in China, a horrible communist country where people have no rights, etc... It's just horrible. And that's where Romney's allegiance is, with the globalist corporations. If you step back and look at the bigger picture you can see who is really doing the lion's share of the taking and the giving, and it aint Bill and Betty foodstamp.

'In a sense there have always and ever been only two political philosophies: liberty and power. Either people should be free to live their lives as they see fit, as long as they respect the equal rights of others, or some people should be able to use force to make other people act in ways they wouldn't choose.

----D Boaz"

The problem in a world of corporate fascism lead by US hegemony is of the certain arbitrage of rights taking place. If you really believed in what Boaz is saying then every American corporation should be banned from basing their business operations in countries that do not adhere to the same rights of man. Otherwise, this is a meaningless argument, and quite simply the people of the US have everything taken from them, by these corporations they serve and protect. Romney has made great fortunes in this game of international rights arbitrage, yet, shamelessly, he claims that he is the party of freedom and liberty. This is double speak. I detest it. I don't detest Romney. I do think he is a good guy, a good investment banker for sure, it's just the double speak really bothers me. For me honesty is the everything. I don't necessarily agree with the Democrats policies everywhere but I know they are honest about what they stand for. At least that's the impression I have. If I am wrong somewhere please show me.


"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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 syxforex 
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Well, I think you missed my point, completely. But of course I'm sure that for you anybody who doesn't support Mitt Romney is anti-American. You might not know this, but my homeland is pretty much a mirror image of yours. We have fought for the same rights and freedoms. We are part of the American continent and we have a very similar past and a very similar American dream. We are your neighbour, and our economies are the most integrated of any two on the planet. When we turn on a television we see 98 US stations out of a hundred. We play football, and baseball, and hockey, we drive chevys and fords, we have starbucks and McD on every corner, we want a better world too, we often ask ourselves, how are we different? We are far more tuned into what is going on there than the other way around so I forgive your mean spirited comment because you probably have some major misconceptions of the way we are and you probably didn't understand exactly what I was saying. Anyways, we are playing the same game in the same economy and whatever happens there happens here. That's just the way it is. So of course we have a huge interest in what happens south of the border. We believe in the American dream just as you do, we are North Americans. If American minimum wage goes down to 2$ per hour, it happens here. I believe we need to protect the middle class from expanding global corporatism. Maybe you don't know what I mean when I talk about international rights arbitrage, what I'm talking about is standing up for and protecting the American dream. Selling out the middle class to China runs counter to the American dream and the principle of the founding fathers of your great country. It flies in the face of the US constitution which guarantees the rights of man. Should it not apply to the man working in the US corporation's Chinese factory? It's a sellout, so quite on the contrary, I am fighting for the American dream, and I believe in the American dream as only those who have experienced the pain and suffering of disenfranchisement truly understand.


liquidcci View Post
@syxforex

You really sound very anti-american. Our system is not perfect and corporations are not perfect but it has produced one of the highest standard of livings and largest middle classes in the history of the world. While I would not want to be poor believe me the poor in the U.S. are better off than the poor in much of the world. In many places if you own any type of car you are considered to be doing well. Sorry but the U.S even with all it's problems is still the land of opportunity. Everyone has a chance at upward mobility and may even hit it big. These evil corporations you speak of have created countless good paying jobs allowing people to put kids through college, buy cars, houses and generally enjoy life. I have traveled the world and have seen poverty that makes your stomach turn and freedoms trampled on in ways that are astounding. When I come home after seeing these things I feel like kissing the ground. Sorry but I refuse to buy into much of the propaganda you are putting up running down the United States. Proud citizen of the land of the free and the home of the brave. Thank God for the opportunities being born here has put in front of me. Thankful for the corporations that hired me allowing me to get in position to then start my own business.


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 liquidcci 
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What would you rather our model be Greece?

I said nothing about Romney in my last post. But I do disagree that you feel like Democrats are more honest. I would say most politicians lie and believe me the Democrats tell plenty. Say they won't tax middle class which is not true. Say Obamacare would not cost middle class more untrue. Said attacks in Libya were just rioters turns out untrue and they knew it was untrue. List goes on.

As far as liberals being honest about what they believe. If they believed what they are now preaching they would redistribute all of own wealth and become common with their fellow man. My definition of belief is to live your beliefs not just talk about them so you can get votes.



syxforex View Post
Well, I think you missed my point, completely. But of course I'm sure that for you anybody who doesn't support Mitt Romney is anti-American. You might not know this, but my homeland is pretty much a mirror image of yours. We have fought for the same rights and freedoms. We are part of the American continent and we have a very similar past and a very similar American dream. We are your neighbour, and our economies are the most integrated of any two on the planet. When we turn on a television we see 98 US stations out of a hundred. We play football, and baseball, and hockey, we drive chevys and fords, we have starbucks and McD on every corner, we want a better world too, we often ask ourselves, how are we different? We are far more tuned into what is going on there than the other way around so I forgive your mean spirited comment because you probably have some major misconceptions of the way we are and you probably didn't understand exactly what I was saying. Anyways, we are playing the same game in the same economy and whatever happens there happens here. That's just the way it is. So of course we have a huge interest in what happens south of the border. We believe in the American dream just as you do, we are North Americans. If American minimum wage goes down to 2$ per hour, it happens here. I believe we need to protect the middle class from expanding global corporatism. Maybe you don't know what I mean when I talk about international rights arbitrage, what I'm talking about is standing up for and protecting the American dream. Selling out the middle class to China runs counter to the American dream and the principle of the founding fathers of your great country. It flies in the face of the US constitution which guarantees the rights of man. Should it not apply to the man working in the US corporation's Chinese factory? It's a sellout, so quite on the contrary, I am fighting for the American dream, and I believe in the American dream as only those who have experienced the pain and suffering of disenfranchisement truly understand.


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The Truth About The Obama Phone | ThinkProgress

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 furytrader 
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The more I read from syxforex, the more I realize that he's what is called a "concern troll" - according to the Urban Dictionary: "In an argument (usually a political debate), a concern troll is someone who is on one side of the discussion, but pretends to be a supporter of the other side with "concerns". The idea behind this is that your opponents will take your arguments more seriously if they think you're an ally."

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 furytrader 
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As for the "Obama Phone" piece, the fact that it's paid for by telecommunications companies as ordered by the government is essentially equivalent to a tax, since the telecos revenues come from customers.

I wouldn't expect the leftists at Think Progress to understand this, but that's because they're leftists.

Furthermore, that piece from Think Progress says nothing to the fact that this lady claims she will vote for Obama because she get's a free phone. The point is not whether she get's a free phone from the government (which she does, indirectly) but that her vote is swayed by the fact that she gets handouts from the government.

I believe there is one presidential candidate talking about this ... and the other one is talking to Whoopi Goldberg.

 
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 monpere 
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furytrader View Post
As for the "Obama Phone" piece, the fact that it's paid for by telecommunications companies as ordered by the government is essentially equivalent to a tax, since the telecos revenues come from customers.

I wouldn't expect the leftists at Think Progress to understand this, but that's because they're leftists.

Furthermore, that piece from Think Progress says nothing to the fact that this lady claims she will vote for Obama because she get's a free phone. The point is not whether she get's a free phone from the government (which she does, indirectly) but that her vote is swayed by the fact that she gets handouts from the government.

I believe there is one presidential candidate talking about this ... and the other one is talking to Whoopi Goldberg.

- I'm voting for this guy because he gives me handouts
- I'm voting for that guy because he doesn't kill babies
- I'm voting for the other guy because he is black
- I'm voting for this guy because he is white
- I'm voting for this guy because he won't raise my taxes
- I'm voting for that guy because he won't go to war
- I'm voting for another guy because he makes me feel comfortable
- I'm voting for that guy because I don't like the other one
- I'm voting for this guy because he is Christian

These are various reasons that people use to vote for one guy or another. Each one of those reasons can be looked at by someone else and judged as foolish. What is the difference really between one reason or another? What makes one reason more valid then another? People vote for candidates who will directly affect their lives, whether that is via a free phone, lower taxes, or the proliferation of their ideology, etc.

 
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 furytrader 
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Monpere, I think you're trying to draw a false equivalency. It's far different to say that I'm going to vote someone into power because they take money from other people and give it to me, then to say that I'm going to vote someone into power because they stand back and let me make money for myself.

 
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furytrader View Post
Monpere, I think you're trying to draw a false equivalency. It's far different to say that I'm going to vote someone into power because they take money from other people and give it to me, then to say that I'm going to vote someone into power because they stand back and let me make money for myself.

The other guy from the other side of the argument can say the same thing. The merits of the equivalency is immaterial. The point is, human beings make decision according to their self interests. If your self interests are different then mine, I will make a different decision then you. That does not make my decision wrong, or foolish, etc. It is based on my and your natural self preservation instinct. Handouts help me survive, less taxes help you thrive, they are both governed by self preservation, they are both valid reasons for your decisions.

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 furytrader 
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I'm not disputing whether people act out of their own self-interest. My point is that there's a difference between robbing Peter to pay Paul or working to make the pie bigger for both Peter and Paul.

 
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 monpere 
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furytrader View Post
I'm not disputing whether people act out of their own self-interest. My point is that there's a difference between robbing Peter to pay Paul or working to make the pie bigger for both Peter and Paul.

My point was aimed to the people ridiculing the person voting for the candidate that they believe gave them a cell phone. A cell phone means nothing to you because even your cat has one. To a person in another life circumstance, a cell phone helps them survive today, tomorrow and next week, so why would they vote for anyone else? They will leave the debate of Peter and Paul to those who feel they will be negatively impacted. Each will vote according to the direct impact in their own lives.

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 ctbaran 
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monpere View Post
- I'm voting for this guy because he gives me handouts
- I'm voting for that guy because he doesn't kill babies
- I'm voting for the other guy because he is black
- I'm voting for this guy because he is white
- I'm voting for this guy because he won't raise my taxes
- I'm voting for that guy because he won't go to war
- I'm voting for another guy because he makes me feel comfortable
- I'm voting for that guy because I don't like the other one
- I'm voting for this guy because he is Christian

These are various reasons that people use to vote for one guy or another. Each one of those reasons can be looked at by someone else and judged as foolish. What is the difference really between one reason or another? What makes one reason more valid then another? People vote for candidates who will directly affect their lives, whether that is via a free phone, lower taxes, or the proliferation of their ideology, etc.

Nice list...explains in a nutshell why our country is going down. Everything is seen as MORALLY equivalent by so many.

"- I'm voting for this guy because he gives me handouts"
"- I'm voting for that guy because he doesn't kill babies"

"What is the difference really between one reason or another?"


 
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 Jedi 
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monpere View Post
My point was aimed to the people ridiculing the person voting for the candidate that they believe gave them a cell phone. A cell phone means nothing to you because even your cat has one. To a person in another life circumstance, a cell phone helps them survive today, tomorrow and next week, so why would they vote for anyone else? They will leave the debate of Peter and Paul to those who feel they will be negatively impacted. Each will vote according to the direct impact in their own lives.

democracy is a horrible form of government, however, there is no better alternative...ha

actually it makes more sense than anything else.. the priority of the mass "should" always outweigh the priority of the few... Just let history be the guide and you'll have plenty of references and why revolutions take place..

 
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 liquidcci 
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Lets just be honest.

If you owned a company that was on the decline and in huge debt.

Who would you hire to fix it?

Someone who has never run a business, has no job creating record and never made a dime that did not some how relate to politics

or

Someone who has not only run profitable business but has started them creating thousands upon thousands of jobs in the process.

Pick

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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 furytrader 
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Liquidcci, I totally agree. If you were to bring in Barack Obama or Mitt Romney to "turn around" Detroit, who would have a better chance of doing it?

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 liquidcci 
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Jedi View Post
democracy is a horrible form of government, however, there is no better alternative...ha

actually it makes more sense than anything else.. the priority of the mass "should" always outweigh the priority of the few... Just let history be the guide and you'll have plenty of references and why revolutions take place..

@Jedi

Let me give you a business owners perspective.

I own a business outside of trading. Because of bad liberal anti-business policies coming out of Washington I will not hire anyone. To much uncertainty to take the risk. I could actually use some more employees right now but will not hire. Now if Obama is elected and is able to ram through the rest of his agenda --carbon credits, no chance to overturn Obamacare, higher taxes etc there is a actually a good chance I may have to let people go. Not being political with this statement just a hard cold reality.

Here is the kicker I know many business owners and they will tell you the exact same thing.

Now someone loses their job and ends up getting a government check instead of a decent paying job working for me. I try to pay my employees well and believe as a business owner in seeing other people who work for me prosper. So is that person now better off getting a minimal government check? How does this type of system help the masses? It does not it lowers standard of living for all. Most jobs in this country are created by the small business owner and this scenario is and will be repeated millions of times over.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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 Jedi 
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furytrader View Post
Liquidcci, I totally agree. If you were to bring in Barack Obama or Mitt Romney to "turn around" Detroit, who would have a better chance of doing it?

With that line of reasoning Donald Trump would make another good candidate and Ronald Reagan got lucky.. and the business acumen of the Bushes should have really helped the economy.. Looking out for the mass comes with the job description of the president even if it appears socialistic, you can't blame a president for trying.. that's his job..

Again, history has tried many things and can be referenced.. Let's use some historical references to support the reasoning..

 
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liquidcci View Post
@Jedi

Let me give you a business owners perspective.

I own a business outside of trading. Because of bad liberal anti-business policies coming out of Washington I will not hire anyone. To much uncertainty to take the risk. I could actually use some more employees right now but will not hire. Now if Obama is elected and is able to ram through the rest of his agenda --carbon credits, no chance to overturn Obamacare, higher taxes etc there is a actually a good chance I may have to let people go. Not being political with this statement just a hard cold reality.

Here is the kicker I know many business owners and they will tell you the exact same thing.

Now someone loses their job and ends up getting a government check instead of a decent paying job working for me. I try to pay my employees well and believe as a business owner in seeing other people who work for me prosper. So is that person now better off getting a minimal government check? How does this type of system help the masses? It does not it lowers standard of living for all.

@liquidcci,

Would it be fair to say the demand for your service/product(s) has not yet reached a point where you HAVE TO hire? If this thresh-hold was broken, would you still fail to hire additional help, and instead rely on the employees you have today to work more, or what other option would you have?

Is supply/demand what drives hiring, or additional funds on your side from things such as tax breaks, or increased savings, or more certainty on what 'could' come in the future?

Gary

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 liquidcci 
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Gary View Post
@liquidcci,

Would it be fair to say the demand for your service/product(s) has not yet reached a point where you HAVE TO hire? If this thresh-hold was broken, would you still fail to hire additional help, and instead rely on the employees you have today to work more, or what other option would you have?

Is supply/demand what drives hiring, or additional funds on your side from things such as tax breaks, or increased savings, or more certainty on what 'could' come in the future?

Gary


Gary great question. There is alot of risk with hiring new employees so like anything you have to weigh the risk. Kind of like trading you could increase your bottom line but to do so you must take on more risk. I am at point where I would actually like to hire and could but the risks are to great so instead I just double up and do certain things myself etc... Tax Breaks would reduce that risk and give me extra funds to hire, better economy would reduce that risk, less feeling that government is out to bleed the small business owner dry would reduce that risk.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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 liquidcci 
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Jedi View Post
With that line of reasoning Donald Trump would make another good candidate and Ronald Reagan got lucky.. and the business acumen of the Bushes should have really helped the economy.. Looking out for the mass comes with the job description of the president even if it appears socialistic, you can't blame a president for trying.. that's his job..

Again, history has tried many things and can be referenced.. Let's use some historical references to support the reasoning..

Lets use Greece. They were all about the masses living in the middle class via government redistribution. Now you have burning cars in the streets. Works great.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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 Jedi 
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liquidcci View Post
Gary great question. There is alot of risk with hiring new employees so like anything you have to weigh the risk. Kind of like trading you could increase your bottom line but to do so you must take on more risk. I am at point where I would actually like to hire and could but the risks are to great so instead I just double up and do certain things myself etc... Tax Breaks would reduce that risk and give me extra funds to hire, better economy would reduce that risk, less feeling that government is out to bleed the small business owner dry would reduce that risk.

The business environment (which is often driven by business cycles) is the high impact items.. tax advantages and having some additional expenses for healthcare is a lower impact item.. not saying it has no impact especially during recessionary times, but lower impact than business landscape and revenue.. There are lots of ways creative ways to increase revenues.. what type of business are you in? Obama's business policies should not impact businesses under 25 employees..

What drives business is demand, not from the wealthy due to their tax saving but from the mass having excess to spend..

From the President's perspective, high priority is the interests of the mass, though not only their immediate need but also investing for the future for the "welfare" (excuse the pun...ha) of the majority and that's what Obama is aiming to do.. We may disagree that he will achieve the desired impact and there are no strong historical references except for Greece which is an extreme example during a recession..

Remember, governments like the US has always operated with a deficit during bad times only to pay it back during good times.. Its how governments operate..

 
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 ctbaran 
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liquidcci View Post
Lets use Greece. They were all about the masses living in the middle class via government redistribution. Now you have burning cars in the streets.

The left deserves another 4 yrs.
Let them try and dig us out of bankruptcy after maxing out the credit card, mortgaging the house, and spending
like there's no tomorrow. Otherwise no one will learn anything and guess who will get blamed for the next collapse?

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 Jedi 
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liquidcci View Post
Lets use Greece. They were all about the masses living in the middle class via government redistribution. Now you have burning cars in the streets. Works great.

Once you give, its hard to take away and there needs to be a balance.. I think Europe has gone too far with it and the mother has spoiled her child as seen by the recent tantrums and protests..

However, the US is not in that situation.. We don't take 2 month vacations and all that stuff but we do have a broken healthcare system.. The current solution is to continue to use the emergency room.. Should we leave it as it is or at least try something to fix it.. I don't think anyone should point the finger unless they have a better solution than the one proposed..

 
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liquidcci View Post
Lets use Greece. They were all about the masses living in the middle class via government redistribution. Now you have burning cars in the streets. Works great.

Greece entered the EU because Goldman Sachs helped them hide the real amount of debt they were carrying so it looked like they were complying with the Maastricht Treaty.

So you had crooked politicians wanting power, enabled by crooked financing.

BTW - the guy at GS at the time is now head of ECB. Coincidence of course.

 
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 liquidcci 
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Jedi View Post
The business environment (which is often driven by business cycles) is the high impact items.. tax advantages and having some additional expenses for healthcare is a lower impact item.. not saying it has no impact especially during recessionary times, but lower impact than business landscape and revenue.. There are lots of ways creative ways to increase revenues.. what type of business are you in? Obama's business policies should not impact businesses under 25 employees..

What drives business is demand, not from the wealthy due to their tax saving but from the mass having excess to spend..

From the President's perspective, high priority is the interests of the mass, though not only their immediate need but also investing for the future for the "welfare" (excuse the pun...ha) of the majority and that's what Obama is aiming to do.. We may disagree that he will achieve the desired impact and there are no strong historical references except for Greece which is an extreme example during a recession..

Remember, governments like the US has always operated with a deficit during bad times only to pay it back during good times.. Its how governments operate..


@Jedi his policies will and have affected business with under 25 employees.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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 ctbaran 
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Jedi View Post
What drives business is demand, not from the wealthy due to their tax saving but from the mass having excess to spend..

Demand comes from those who have a job, not an unemplyment/disability/foodstamp check backed by recently printed paper. Gov't makes those jobs harder and harder everyday to create on the private side.


"Investing in the future" sounds great...to college kids, as if the money grows on trees. But hey,
"Its how governments operate.. " This is classic Keynes/Krugman.

 
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 Jedi 
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Tarkus11 View Post
Greece entered the EU because Goldman Sachs helped them hide the real amount of debt they were carrying so it looked like they were complying with the Maastricht Treaty.

So you had crooked politicians wanting power, enabled by crooked financing.

BTW - the guy at GS at the time is now head of ECB. Coincidence of course.

exactly why "as a general rule" you want to err in favor of the mass rather than the rich and powerful.. check and balance is ALWAYS a good thing..

 
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 Jedi 
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liquidcci View Post
@Jedi his policies will and have affected business with under 25 employees.

How? We also have a business that is under 25 employees.. I hear everyone complaining but there is really no impact except for recessionary times..

 
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 Jedi 
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ctbaran View Post
Demand comes from those who have a job, not an unemplyment/disability/foodstamp check backed by recently printed paper. Gov't makes those jobs harder and harder everyday to create on the private side.


"Investing in the future" sounds great...to college kids, as if the money grows on trees. But hey,
"Its how governments operate.. " This is classic Keynes/Krugman.

How? during the great depression, the same argument can be made.. That's why I don't blame the bank bail out either because although its an experiment and theory, the risk not to try is too great.. "global economy might mean domino effect towards global meltdown" I don't know if that's true and nobody does, but the theory makes sense.. why risk it?

The risk of not trying to elevate the mass into the middle class and nobody has the exact answer can pose a bigger threat to the US by having a 2 tiered class similar to Europe before the French revolution, like China before the cultural revolution, and Russia and etc.. Again solutions please..

 
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 websouth 
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Jedi View Post
I don't think anyone should point the finger unless they have a better solution than the one proposed..

The solution is not found in looking to government. It will come from creative individuals.

Everyone is coming from a different perspective of what government is...
(could be the gov't schooling... )
Government = force. Simple. It is the only entity which can imprison you or sentence you to death. Corporations can not do this only government can. It is as basic and simple as this. Once you acknowledge this all the rest flows from there. Do you use force to take from one group to give to another to provide.......
healthcare
cell phones
build a library
common defense

I tend to believe most people are good not evil and that they mean well but ask yourself for which causes that you believe in do you feel force is OK to use.... Then realize that you are a thug in this regard. You wish to align your thuggery with the most powerful thug (the government) to make it happen. You justify it by saying....
it's for the children, the needy, the.....whatever. Viewing gov't for what it really is should be the starting point of any political discussion. Otherwise you talk in circles. Usually with everyone saying I think the thug should do this or I think the thug should do that.

Read this....yes the whole thing
The Law, by Frederic Bastiat


+++++++++
Bastiat excerpt -
A Fatal Tendency of Mankind
Self-preservation and self-development are common aspirations among all people. And if everyone enjoyed the unrestricted use of his faculties and the free disposition of the fruits of his labor, social progress would be ceaseless, uninterrupted, and unfailing.

But there is also another tendency that is common among people. When they can, they wish to live and prosper at the expense of others. This is no rash accusation. Nor does it come from a gloomy and uncharitable spirit. The annals of history bear witness to the truth of it: the incessant wars, mass migrations, religious persecutions, universal slavery, dishonesty in commerce, and monopolies. This fatal desire has its origin in the very nature of man — in that primitive, universal, and insuppressible instinct that impels him to satisfy his desires with the least possible pain.

Property and Plunder
Man can live and satisfy his wants only by ceaseless labor; by the ceaseless application of his faculties to natural resources. This process is the origin of property.

But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder.

Now since man is naturally inclined to avoid pain — and since labor is pain in itself — it follows that men will resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work. History shows this quite clearly. And under these conditions, neither religion nor morality can stop it.

When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor.

It is evident, then, that the proper purpose of law is to use the power of its collective force to stop this fatal tendency to plunder instead of to work. All the measures of the law should protect property and punish plunder.

But, generally, the law is made by one man or one class of men. And since law cannot operate without the sanction and support of a dominating force, this force must be entrusted to those who make the laws.

This fact, combined with the fatal tendency that exists in the heart of man to satisfy his wants with the least possible effort, explains the almost universal perversion of the law. Thus it is easy to understand how law, instead of checking injustice, becomes the invincible weapon of injustice. It is easy to understand why the law is used by the legislator to destroy in varying degrees among the rest of the people, their personal independence by slavery, their liberty by oppression, and their property by plunder. This is done for the benefit of the person who makes the law, and in proportion to the power that he holds.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Works in Chronological Order | LysanderSpooner.org

Spooner
The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: Your money, or your life. And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat.

The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the road side, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.

The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a “protector,” and that he takes men’s money against their will, merely to enable him to “protect” those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these. Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will; assuming to be your rightful “sovereign,” on account of the “protection” he affords you. He does not keep “protecting” you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villanies as these. In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you, attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave.

+++++++++++++++++++++

The Superman Idea - Bastiat
The claims of these organizers of humanity raise another question which I have often asked them and which, so far as I know, they have never answered: If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? The organizers maintain that society, when left undirected, rushes headlong to its inevitable destruction because the instincts of the people are so perverse. The legislators claim to stop this suicidal course and to give it a saner direction. Apparently, then, the legislators and the organizers have received from Heaven an intelligence and virtue that place them beyond and above mankind; if so, let them show their titles to this superiority.

They would be the shepherds over us, their sheep. Certainly such an arrangement presupposes that they are naturally superior to the rest of us. And certainly we are fully justified in demanding from the legislators and organizers proof of this natural superiority.


+++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++

“I believe that my theory is correct; for whatever be the question upon which I am arguing, whether it be religious, philosophical, political, or economical; whether it affects well-being, morality, equality, right, justice, progress, responsibility, property, labor, exchange, capital, wages, taxes, population, credit, or Government; at whatever point of the scientific horizon I start from, I invariably come to the same thing—the solution of the social problem is in liberty.”
― Frédéric Bastiat


and for the sound bite tldr crowd...a few select quotes
Frédéric Bastiat Quotes (Author of The Law)

“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss
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 Jedi 
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websouth View Post
The solution is not found in looking to government. It will come from creative individuals.

Everyone is coming from a different perspective of what government is...
(could be the gov't schooling... )
Government = force. Simple. It is the only entity which can imprison you or sentence you to death. Corporations can not do this only government can. It is as basic and simple as this. Once you acknowledge this all the rest flows from there. Do you use force to take from one group to give to another to provide.......
healthcare
cell phones
build a library
common defense

I tend to believe most people are good not evil and that they mean well but ask yourself for which causes that you believe in do you feel force is OK to use.... Then realize that you are a thug in this regard. You wish to align your thuggery with the most powerful thug (the government) to make it happen. You justify it by saying....
it's for the children, the needy, the.....whatever. Viewing gov't for what it really is should be the starting point of any political discussion. Otherwise you talk in circles. Usually with everyone saying I think the thug should do this or I think the thug should do that.

Read this....yes the whole thing
The Law, by Frederic Bastiat


+++++++++
Bastiat excerpt -
A Fatal Tendency of Mankind
Self-preservation and self-development are common aspirations among all people. And if everyone enjoyed the unrestricted use of his faculties and the free disposition of the fruits of his labor, social progress would be ceaseless, uninterrupted, and unfailing.

But there is also another tendency that is common among people. When they can, they wish to live and prosper at the expense of others. This is no rash accusation. Nor does it come from a gloomy and uncharitable spirit. The annals of history bear witness to the truth of it: the incessant wars, mass migrations, religious persecutions, universal slavery, dishonesty in commerce, and monopolies. This fatal desire has its origin in the very nature of man — in that primitive, universal, and insuppressible instinct that impels him to satisfy his desires with the least possible pain.

Property and Plunder
Man can live and satisfy his wants only by ceaseless labor; by the ceaseless application of his faculties to natural resources. This process is the origin of property.

But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder.

Now since man is naturally inclined to avoid pain — and since labor is pain in itself — it follows that men will resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work. History shows this quite clearly. And under these conditions, neither religion nor morality can stop it.

When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor.

It is evident, then, that the proper purpose of law is to use the power of its collective force to stop this fatal tendency to plunder instead of to work. All the measures of the law should protect property and punish plunder.

But, generally, the law is made by one man or one class of men. And since law cannot operate without the sanction and support of a dominating force, this force must be entrusted to those who make the laws.

This fact, combined with the fatal tendency that exists in the heart of man to satisfy his wants with the least possible effort, explains the almost universal perversion of the law. Thus it is easy to understand how law, instead of checking injustice, becomes the invincible weapon of injustice. It is easy to understand why the law is used by the legislator to destroy in varying degrees among the rest of the people, their personal independence by slavery, their liberty by oppression, and their property by plunder. This is done for the benefit of the person who makes the law, and in proportion to the power that he holds.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Works in Chronological Order | LysanderSpooner.org

Spooner
The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: Your money, or your life. And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat.

The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the road side, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.

The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a “protector,” and that he takes men’s money against their will, merely to enable him to “protect” those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these. Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will; assuming to be your rightful “sovereign,” on account of the “protection” he affords you. He does not keep “protecting” you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villanies as these. In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you, attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave.

+++++++++++++++++++++

The Superman Idea - Bastiat
The claims of these organizers of humanity raise another question which I have often asked them and which, so far as I know, they have never answered: If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? The organizers maintain that society, when left undirected, rushes headlong to its inevitable destruction because the instincts of the people are so perverse. The legislators claim to stop this suicidal course and to give it a saner direction. Apparently, then, the legislators and the organizers have received from Heaven an intelligence and virtue that place them beyond and above mankind; if so, let them show their titles to this superiority.

They would be the shepherds over us, their sheep. Certainly such an arrangement presupposes that they are naturally superior to the rest of us. And certainly we are fully justified in demanding from the legislators and organizers proof of this natural superiority.


+++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++

“I believe that my theory is correct; for whatever be the question upon which I am arguing, whether it be religious, philosophical, political, or economical; whether it affects well-being, morality, equality, right, justice, progress, responsibility, property, labor, exchange, capital, wages, taxes, population, credit, or Government; at whatever point of the scientific horizon I start from, I invariably come to the same thing—the solution of the social problem is in liberty.”
― Frédéric Bastiat


and for the sound bite tldr crowd...a few select quotes
Frédéric Bastiat Quotes (Author of The Law)

The theory is fine but do you have any example of the successful application of those theories in real life? Which country has achieved this type of utopia according to those theories? Which politician will implement those experiments? What's the risk to try this?

Everything exists for a reason including the government and the powers it possess, because at one point it was needed for something.. Balance is the key and a leader navigates thru this balance without absolute answers.. In politics, like in life and just like trading, there are no absolute answers, only context and decisions as things swing from one extreme to another but stable/realistic spot is typically somewhere in the middle... A combination of capitalism and socialism without going too far in either direction and depending on the current context.. This is not the time to eliminate social services and lower taxes for the wealthy.. When the economy recovers is the right time to eliminate social services, and when everything is stable, reduce taxes for everyone including the wealthy..

"There is a time for everything under the sun"

 
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 furytrader 
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Quoting 
Donald Trump would make another good candidate and Ronald Reagan got lucky.. and the business acumen of the Bushes should have really helped the economy.

Actually, I think Mitt Romney demonstrated great experience in helping to grow companies and turn around the Salt Lake City Olympics. Donald Trump's companies have filed for bankruptcy four times and I don't recall anyone ever identifying either of the Bush presidents as being particularly successful business people.


Quoting 
This is not the time to eliminate social services and lower taxes for the wealthy.. When the economy recovers is the right time to eliminate social services, and when everything is stable, reduce taxes for everyone including the wealthy

.

We have had "good times" in the past and, at that time, the desire to eliminate social services meets the same stiff resistance. However, during prosperous times, you hear a different argument: "Well, we all have a lot of money now, why can't we give some more to those who have less?"

And when times are bad, the argument is "This is not the time to eliminate social services ..."

For crying out loud, here in America, the value of farms is at an all-time high while the debt-to-equity level for farmers is at an all-time low and we STILL have Farm Aid concerts each and every year!

 
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 Jedi 
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furytrader View Post
Actually, I think Mitt Romney demonstrated great experience in helping to grow companies and turn around the Salt Lake City Olympics. Donald Trump's companies have filed for bankruptcy four times and I don't recall anyone ever identifying either of the Bush presidents as being particularly successful business people.

.

We have had "good times" in the past and, at that time, the desire to eliminate social services meets the same stiff resistance. However, during prosperous times, you hear a different argument: "Well, we all have a lot of money now, why can't we give some more to those who have less?"

And when times are bad, the argument is "This is not the time to eliminate social services ..."

For crying out loud, here in America, the value of farms is at an all-time high while the debt-to-equity level for farmers is at an all-time low and we STILL have Farm Aid concerts each and every year!

I agree with you about Romney and I think he's an excellent candidate with seemingly good characteristics and ability as well as good intentions like Obama.. But he has not introduced any ideas that have not be tried in the past.. I like Obama slightly more only because I agree with his intent slightly more.. What others might consider radical actions towards the left, I consider a president having the balls to take action rather than trying to please everyone, which politics typically force you to do.. If you want to get things done in Washington, you can't be a people pleaser..

Remember, all the social services implemented were for a reason including farming, otherwise we might be importing food from other countries and have food inflation.. Its not a perfect system and we have to accept the imperfections of government, politics, society and various human traits..

Suppose we eliminate all the social services, do you think that makes for a better society.. What is the theory as how things will begin changing for the better? What do you think is going to happen to various people with what results? Again, its easy to point the finger but hard to come up with a "realistic and actionable" solution..

Do you think Romney will get the job done? I'm willing to let him experiment with the fate of the country as I'm willing to let Obama experiment because they both appear to be smart, decent guys with good intentions.. but my thinking cap agrees with Obama and his approach slightly more.. I don't think Obama is behaving out of context either.. Has anyone come up with a better solution for the healthcare? Will Romney eliminate government control now? Let's just all see it for what it is and just have a good laugh but know that you and I are not likely to be Jesus as either a politician or the president..

 
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 furytrader 
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I don't think we should eliminate all social services - far from it. However, I think the social safety net should be good, strong, and limited.

I also think people should be encouraged to volunteer more - it's strange how, in the US, people can deduct charitable donations from their taxes but they cannot deduct time donated.

 
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 kbit 
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A Culture of Delusion
Paul Craig Roberts


A writer’s greatest disappointments are readers who have knee-jerk responses. Not all readers, of course. Some readers are thoughtful and supportive. Others express thanks for opening their eyes. But the majority are happy when a writer tells them what they want to hear and are unhappy when he writes what they don’t want to hear.

For the left-wing, Ronald Reagan is the great bogeyman. Those on the left don’t understand supply-side economics as a macroeconomic innovation that cured stagflation by utilizing the impact of fiscal policy on aggregate supply. Instead, they see “trickle-down economics” and tax cuts for the rich. Leftists don’t understand that the Reagan administration intervened in Grenada and Nicaragua in order to signal to the Soviets that there would be no more Soviet expansion or client states and that it was time to negotiate the end of the Cold War. Instead, leftists see in Reagan the origin of rule by the one percent and the neoconservatives’ wars for US hegemony.

In 1981 curtailing inflation meant collapsing nominal GNP and tax revenues. The result would be budget deficits – anathema to Republicans – during the period of readjustment. Ending the Cold War meant curtailing the military/security complex and raised the specter in conservative circles of “the anti-Christ” Gorbachev deceiving Reagan and taking over the world.

In pursuing his two main goals, Reagan was up against his own constituency and relied on rhetoric to keep his constituency on board with his agenda. The left wing heard the rhetoric but failed to comprehend the agenda.

When I explain these facts, easily and abundantly documented, some of leftish persuasion send in condescending and insulting emails telling me that they look forward to the day that I stop lying about Reagan and tell the truth about Reagan like I do about everything else.

“Knee-jerk liberal” is a favorite term of conservatives. But conservatives can be just as knee-jerk. When I object to Washington’s wars, the mistreatment of detainees and the suspension of civil liberties, some on the right tell me that if I hate America so much I should move to Cuba. Many Republicans cannot get their minds around the fact that if civil liberties are subject to the government’s arbitrary discretion, then civil liberties do not exist. The flag-waving element of the population is prone to confuse loyalty to the country with loyalty to the government, unless, of course, there’s a Democrat in the White House.

Rationally, it makes no sense for readers to think that a writer who would lie to them about one thing would tell them the truth about another. But as long as they hear what they want to hear, it is the truth. If they don’t want to hear it, it is a lie.

Both left and right also confuse explanations with justifications.

When a writer writes about the perils that we as a society face and the implications, it is very discouraging for the writer to know that many readers will not listen unless it is what they want to hear. This discouragement is precisely what every truth-teller faces, which is why there are so few of them.

This is one reason I stopped writing a couple of years ago. I found that solid facts and sound analysis could not penetrate brainwashed and closed minds seeking vindication to keep the mind locked tightly against unsettling truths. Americans want to have their beliefs vindicated more than they want the truth. The success of print and TV pundits is based on allying with a prominent point of view or interest group and serving it. Those served make the writer or talking head successful. I never thought much of that kind of success.

But success as a whore is about the only kind of success that can occur in Washington or in the media these days. Those who refuse to prostitute themselves arouse pity and denunciation, not admiration. A couple of years ago an acquaintance from a university in the Northeast called me to say he had recently had lunch with some of my former associates in Washington. When he inquired about me, he said the response was, “Poor Craig, if he hadn’t turned critic, he would be worth tens of millions of dollars like us.”

I replied that my former associates were undoubtedly correct. My acquaintance said that he hadn’t realized that he was having lunch with a bunch of prostitutes.

The incentive to speak the truth and the reward for doing so are very weak. And not just for a writer, but also for academics and experts who can make far more money by lying than by telling the truth. How else would we have got GMOs, jobs offshoring, the “unitary executive” and a deregulated financial system? It is a very lucrative career to testify as an expert in civil lawsuits. It is part of America’s romance with the lie that experts purchased by the opposing sides in a lawsuit battle it out as gladiators seeking the jury’s thumbs-up.

And look at Congress. The two members of the House who stood up for the Constitution and truth in government will soon be gone. Ron Paul is stepping down and Dennis Kucinich was redistricted out of his seat. As for the Senate, these thoughtful personages recently voted 90-1 to declare war on Iran, as the sole dissenter, Rand Paul, pointed out. The Senate is very much aware, although only a few will publicly admit it, that the US has been totally frustrated and held to a standoff, if not a defeat, in Afghanistan and is unable to subdue the Taliban. Despite this, the Senate wants a war with Iran, a war which could easily turn out to be even less successful. Obviously, the Senate not only lies to the public but also to itself.

Last week the Pentagon chief, Panetta, told China that the new US naval, air, and troop bases surrounding China are not directed at China. What else could be the purpose of the new bases? Washington is so accustomed to lying and to being believed that Panetta actually thinks China will believe his completely transparent lie. Panetta has confused China with the American people: Tell them what they want to hear, and they will believe it.

Americans live in a matrix of lies. They seldom encounter a truthful statement.There is no evidence that Americans can any longer tell the difference between the truth and a lie. Americans fell for all of these lies and more: Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and al Qaeda connections. Saddam Hussein’s troops seized Kuwaiti babies from incubators and threw them on the floor. Gaddafi fed his troops Viagra to help them rape Libyan women. Iran has a nuclear weapons program. Change – yes we can!

The US is “the indispensable country.” America is broke because of food stamps and Social Security, not because of wars, bankster bailouts and a failing economy. Russia is America’s number one enemy. China is America’s number one enemy. Iran is a terrorist state. Jobs offshoring is free trade and good for the US economy. Israel is America’s most loyal ally. The US missile shield surrounding Russia is not directed at Russia. The South China sea is an area of US national interest. Financial markets are self-regulating.

The list is endless. Lies dominate every policy discussion, every political decision. The most successful people in America are liars.

The endless lies have created a culture of delusion. And this is why America is lost. The beliefs of many Americans, perhaps a majority, are comprised of lies. These beliefs have become emotional crutches, and Americans will fight to defend the lies that they believe. The inability of Americans to accept facts that are contrary to their beliefs is the reason the country is leaderless and will remain so. Unless scales fall from Americans’ eyes, Americans are doomed

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kbit View Post

Iran has a nuclear weapons program.

These beliefs have become emotional crutches, and Americans will fight to defend the lies that they believe.

I agree completely!! but..

although Iran does not have nuclear weapons, I think it would be naive to think they are not pursuing it.. Its like North Korea telling us they are pursuing it for energy purposes.. Iran is clearly insecure and aggressive at the same time but pursuing aggressively a nuclear program for energy purposes because they worry about an energy shortage?

2'nd statement is very true.. a contrary belief is a threat in our mind.. that's typically how the mind interprets and reacts to external stimulus that are foreign..

Also propaganda is what makes the world turn.. It started with religion which is the earliest form of politics and evolved into modern politics.. Its a fight for sovereignty.. a justification to rule.. every ruling power needs it and propaganda is the easy and effective way to do it.. Life is full of ironies but in politics, a good rule of thumb is to "never overestimate the intelligence of the mass." or you will lose in politics.. unfortunate but true..

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 furytrader 
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In case you're wondering whether pretty much everything the Obama administration does is for some political end, please check out the following article which talks about the administration's response to the "Obama Phone" brouhah:

Obama Phone Website Undergoes Radical Redesign | Jammie Wearing Fools

**** EDIT: After looking at this page a little closer, I think it's BS, or at least not something that was set up by the government (although it may have been setup by a supporter of the president) ****

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furytrader View Post
Obama Phone Website Undergoes Radical Redesign | Jammie Wearing Fools

**** EDIT: After looking at this page a little closer, I think it's BS, or at least not something that was set up by the government (although it may have been setup by a supporter of the president) ****

From the links on that page .. " how to get an Obamaphone" in Cleveland & "i don't know where Obama got the money from, his stash?".

Obama Supporter on Video: He Gave Us a Phone! Romney Sucks! | Jammie Wearing Fools

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Furytrader, I'm not surprised by your reply, a vague and factless personal attack that avoids the subject and argument altogether. Calling me a leftist tells me a lot about how you think. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who learned what they know about political science from Rambo and Chuck Norris movies in the 80's. The belief that on the far left you have commies and on the far right you have libertarians, that right is good and left is evil, is absurd, false, and totally untrue. On the far right you have nazis and fascists, not libertarians. On the far left, yes, there are the dirty commies. In fact they are one in the same, they are collectivists. Collectivism is not about foodstamps or health insurance or helping the needy out, it's not remotely connected. It's an evil defined by a vertical power structure, totalitarian, authoritarian, with an all powerful monarch or ruler atop the pyramid. It's a system of Orwellian group think where the ruling class is always right, you are either with us or against us. If you don't want your rights privatized and sold off to the communists in China you better WTFU.

I'm a centrist, not a leftist. I do have some liberal views of how the world should be, such as the legalization of pot via and an end to the brutal and costly war on drugs, freedom of choice in all aspects of life, and concern for the environment that it should be protected from profit blind corporations. So yes, I do have some liberal concerns. I have many more conservative ones as well, free markets, low taxes, etc. It's only in the center however where things get done and progress is made. If people don't come together soon and take back the Congress, the whole world, not just America, is in for a nightmare.




furytrader View Post
The more I read from syxforex, the more I realize that he's what is called a "concern troll" - according to the Urban Dictionary: "In an argument (usually a political debate), a concern troll is someone who is on one side of the discussion, but pretends to be a supporter of the other side with "concerns". The idea behind this is that your opponents will take your arguments more seriously if they think you're an ally."


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Letterman Instructs Viewers To Not Vote For Romney Unless He Visits The 'Late Show' (VIDEO)

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Protesters at an Ohio rally admit they were hired to protest by SEIU


Looks like that same "reporter" who questioned the Obamaphone lady at the Cleveland rally.

Read more: https://kfiam640.iheart.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104707?feed=104707&article=10455060

Left reaction:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/09/28/1134889/-Add-SEIU-to-the-list-of-failed-James-O-Keefe-sting-operations

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"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has weighed in on the U.S. presidential race, saying he prefers President Barack Obama.

'If I were American, I'd vote for Obama,' Chavez said in a televised interview that aired Sunday.

The Venezuelan leader called Obama 'a good guy’ and said if the U.S. president were a Venezuelan, ‘I think... he'd vote for Chavez.’....."


Obama secures the socialist vote as Hugo Chavez says that he'd vote for the President | Mail Online

 
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 syxforex 
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Major Oil states have been very outspoken against the Keystone pipeline. Where Obama is against Keystone, Mitt will get it rolling on day 1 of his Presidency. Chavez is also facing an election so associating himself positively with a political figure that people everywhere seem to like must be a good campaign strategy.

I would just say that the term socialist does seem to be misused a lot around here as it is not a left of center phenomenon, it occurs on both side of the spectrum equally. Left wing socialists are communists, right wing socialists are fascists. It would seem that the world's ills at the moment are a result of a new world order fascists phenomenon. Whoever inherits the massive US bureaucracy is by definition going to be a socialist, be they left or right wing.

Would the Monsanto Man, given the ultimate power position, really scale back the size of government?

Whiplash-Mitt Romney Lavishes Praise On Israel's Socialist, Government Controlled Healthcare System

Whiplash-Mitt Romney Lavishes Praise On Israel's Socialist, Government Controlled Healthcare System - Forbes

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I should not be in this crazy thread, just thought this piece from Columbia University's Earth Institute offers some interesting food for thought.

Finding the Keys to National Prosperity by Jeffrey D. Sachs - Project Syndicate

Also good read is Stephen Roach's Macro Malpractice, a good piece regarding the Fed.

Macro Malpractice by Stephen S. Roach - Project Syndicate

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 Zondor 
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It's becoming increasingly clear that Mittens is totally nuts, but is that really any worse than a polished, genial psychopath?

It's worth reading the whole thing....


Quoting 
And so it goes on the backstretch of the emptiest election contest in memory. The nation simply can't contend with the existential problems it faces and doesn't want to hear about them. As far as I can tell, nobody is paying attention to the campaigns, not even the reporters, certainly not the bloggers, who have their eyes on the riots and other kinetic unravelings related to the money crisis in Europe. Here, where anything goes and nothing matters, everybody just goes through the motions of electoral politics. It all has the odor of a ritual that nobody remembers the original purpose of - namely, to govern, i.e. to manage society's collective affairs. These days, nobody believes that our affairs are manageable, and their perception is probably correct, especially when it comes to paying for it all, since accounting fraud is now the basis of all financial operations.

The Romney election fiasco will destroy the Republican Party, just as the Whig party fell apart in the last days of Millard Fillmore. The religious nuts and Dixieland ignoranti will demand the expulsion of all non-extremists and Karl Rove will be left at the Nascar track with Honey Boo Boo on his lap and a dwindling "base" of shrieking microcephalics awaiting the second coming of Adolf Hitler in a green satin Mountain Dew race-day jumpsuit.

Meanwhile, genial Barack Obama glides to victory and then presides over four more years of implacable contraction that will make the Great Depression look like an episode of Cake Boss. The contraction is upon us because peak oil is for real and shale-gas / shale oil is what used to be known as "a bill o'goods" which one is sold by underhanded means and, boy, was this country sold. BP, Chevron, Exxon-Mobil and the gang carpet-bombed the cable news networks all year with shale propaganda and now everybody and his mother thinks we're going to run Walmart indefinitely on the rectified rock-farts of North Dakota. The sharpies over at Spin Central haven't figured out yet that true "energy independence" means living without the oil you need to run your stuff.


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 syxforex 
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Funny Z..


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It's becoming increasingly clear that Mittens is totally nuts, but is that really any worse than a polished, calculating psychopath?




In Full Flight - Clusterfuck Nation


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The Political Compass




“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” - Dr. Seuss
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 syxforex 
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great video, Ralph Nader

https://videoshare.politico.com/singletitlevideo_noads.php?bcpid=1409164951001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAETmrZQ~,EVFEM4AKJdRjek0MS21pRzf_GTDAM-xj&bctid=1849751935001

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intrade.com



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I will not earn another penny in the US or as a US citizen.

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NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The White House on Friday told government contractors worried about fiscal cliff spending cuts to hold off on warning employees about possible layoffs.

The government said it would cover legal costs if contractors are forced to slash their payrolls because of the looming $109 billion in automatic cuts next year and are alleged to have violated the WARN Act.
The federal WARN Act requires businesses with more than 100 employees to notify workers at least 60 days in advance of a mass layoff or plant closing. Some states require more notice.

"Any resulting employee compensation costs for WARN Act liability as determined by a court, as well as attorneys' fees and other litigation costs (irrespective of litigation outcome) would qualify as allowable costs and be covered by the contracting agency, if otherwise reasonable and allocable," the Office of Management and Budget said in its guidance.

Defense contractors in particular have warned for months that the upcoming sequester would cost jobs in their industry. And Lockheed Martin's CEO has said publicly he may be forced to issue notice this fall of possible layoffs in 2013.

If other contractors follow suit, there could be a rash of layoff notices spooking employees right before Election Day.


Contractors told to hold off on layoff warnings due to fiscal cliff spending cuts - Sep. 28, 2012

 
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Presidential debate recaps

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

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YouTube, ABC News partner to stream US presidential debates live - TechSpot News

Good news for me, since I don't have cable, satellite or OTA. But I will probably still just download them off YouTube 1080p for later viewing. At least I hope it's 720p or 1080p.

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This is a nightmare already, I heard they were running out of drones.

One-third of Americans fear drones — RT


kbit View Post
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The White House on Friday told government contractors worried about fiscal cliff spending cuts to hold off on warning employees about possible layoffs.

The government said it would cover legal costs if contractors are forced to slash their payrolls because of the looming $109 billion in automatic cuts next year and are alleged to have violated the WARN Act.
The federal WARN Act requires businesses with more than 100 employees to notify workers at least 60 days in advance of a mass layoff or plant closing. Some states require more notice.

"Any resulting employee compensation costs for WARN Act liability as determined by a court, as well as attorneys' fees and other litigation costs (irrespective of litigation outcome) would qualify as allowable costs and be covered by the contracting agency, if otherwise reasonable and allocable," the Office of Management and Budget said in its guidance.

Defense contractors in particular have warned for months that the upcoming sequester would cost jobs in their industry. And Lockheed Martin's CEO has said publicly he may be forced to issue notice this fall of possible layoffs in 2013.

If other contractors follow suit, there could be a rash of layoff notices spooking employees right before Election Day.


Contractors told to hold off on layoff warnings due to fiscal cliff spending cuts - Sep. 28, 2012


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Gary Johnson ~ I'm Not The 3rd Choice I'm The ONLY Choice! | XRepublic
=================
Excellent interview etc.!!!!!

 
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Gerald Celente on the Presidential Reality Show and Lessons from the JFK Assassination


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Romney: "..open up more trade with S. America "

ha, globalist code for the next country to offshore jobs. And Romney also gaffed "cutting taxes for the rich" when he meant "raising". You can hear the globalist candidate programming messing up his speech.

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One thing is for sure, the presidential debates are not debates at all and have no real value, not to YOU, anyway.

Rantings on Markets, Economics and Business Strategy: How Dummycrats and Republikaans Conspire In Secret To Subvert Democracy And Shut Out Political Choice

https://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/3/ahead_of_first_obama_romney_debate


Quoting 
Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate for president, is a relative nobody but she would literally mop the floor with Obama and Romney if given an open, democratic forum. Quite frankly, Ron Paul mopped the floor with Romney during his debates even though the debates were little more than glamor shots and freak shows. Imagine what our democracy would look like without political parties and the whorehouse of money they use to control politics. Candidates would be forced to run exclusively on merit rather than any form of control.


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Full video of the first Presidential debate 2012



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I totally agree. They don't even answer the questions.

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 Zondor 
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Now let's review who these liars really work for. In case you forgot.


(go to 1:08 for How to Destroy Social Security)

[yt]www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBI9mC77igo&feature=related] [/yt]

Chomsky explains who U.S. leaders work for and what they have done. - YouTube


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 syxforex 
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I like Romney's pledge to make the US energy independent on Canadian oil... uhoh, I think we're going to need some drones up here

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 wldman 
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IRS agents...don't forget them.

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 syxforex 
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Her Majesty will be seeing a flat tax... OR ELSE!!!! REVOLT

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 MrYou 
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I'm so sick of politics. I'm sick of people rudely "demanding" you hear their opinion or literally demanding you state yours, but you have to be polite so their feelings don't get hurt. They're already physically fired up in anger over all this political nonsense.

I'd honestly rather hear someone talk religion over this crap.

If some of these people weren't paying customers or coworkers I would rudely walk away with my fingers in my ears. But they'll just assume I'm not taking their side, but I don't want to listen to either side.

Maybe I can come up with some sort of game or mind game just to amuse myself. Uggh....

</rant>

One day I WILL live in my own lack of noise bubble as do they with their noise. I WILL find bliss in ignorance.

 
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 kbit 
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BEFORE:

.
AFTER:


...................................

 
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 syxforex 
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Does Mitt wear Magic Gitch? LMAO


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 syxforex 
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Monsanto = Bain = People

How Mitt Romney Helped Monsanto Take Over the World
How Mitt Romney Helped Monsanto Take Over the World | Mother Jones

Does Monsanto Man Mitt Romney Secretly Eat Organic?
Does Monsanto Man Mitt Romney Secretly Eat Organic? | Mother Jones

mmm, Monsanto Doughnut


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One year before Mitt Romney began working on the Bain & Company project to rebuild “Monsanto” and cast their new image and focus on agriculture biotechnology, Congress passed a bill banning PCB (polychlorinated biphenyl), an odorless, tasteless, clear liquid known to cause cancer that was the “bread and butter” of Monsanto’s profits. Monsanto was already branded and plagued with the label of having created the “Agent Orange” contaminated dioxins used in Vietnam.

Romney’s first project with Bain in 1977: Help propel Monsanto Alex Jones&#039; Infowars: There&#039;s a war on for your mind!

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 syxforex 
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How Mitt Romney and Bain Helped Grow Monsanto Into a Biotech Giant

If Romney is elected, this bête noire of environmentalists will have a very old friend in a very high place.

How Mitt Romney and Bain Helped Grow Monsanto Into a Biotech Giant | Alternet

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 Zondor 
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This doesn't sound like what we hear from Democrats nowadays....
The "Royalists" are now in full control.






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 bnichols 
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I consume mainstream media, especially watch TV, to spend time with my wife rather than to be informed or entertained and aside from reruns of Star Trek 10 minutes worth of media / day is normally about my limit.

The other night watching TV coverage of the debate, specifically during commercials during the debate, I wondered aloud "Who are these people?" in reference to the audience targeted by advertisers, to which my wife replied something like, "Face it. Life has passed us by."

It suddenly dawned on me that Gens X, Y & Z and hangers-on from my (Boomer) generation, especially the ones espousing the views of the Occupy movement (as myriad as those views seem to be), are making the same mistake we did in the '60's blaming the Man and his Establishment. It wasn't the Man who needed to change, since he was gone soon enough, but us: in less than a generation lo-and-behold We R the Establishment and the same social and political issues we vowed to resolve are still with us.

In my dotage now part of the much loathed class that thinks the lazy need a kick in the pants, wastes energy via every bit of labour saving technology available, eats GMO food without a care and apparently pays 70% of the taxes don't tell me I have to change. I can't, but mainly I won't be doing it much longer (on a geological time scale ). It's the ones doing the complaining who need to work on themselves since to a large extent they are already running the show, and soon enough will have no one to blame but themselves (as their kids will remind them).

Based on the errors that my generation made, that turned us into capitalist exploiters of the downtrodden, first stop consuming (unsubstantiated ideas as much as products) even if this means above all getting an education (to be able to determine what is fact and what is self-serving fiction) and giving up some of the luxuries us old guys feel entitled to, including private motorized vehicles, mobile communications technology, big screen TVs (1000 channels & little on except Establishment brainwashing after all) washing machines & clothes driers, 8 bladed razors, air conditioning, etc., etc. If you feel a person who earns a buck is less entitled to it than one who does not, give >> 50% of your income to government to distribute to the more deserving. For my part I promise to do my darnedest to ensure there will be little left of my wealth when the time comes, so that my kids are in no danger of inheriting it and turning into me without the considerable effort it took me to turn into me. Finally vote as you see fit, with your wallet as well as during elections, rather than protesting about how other people vote.

This insight was reinforced recently when I watched 3 cars in front of me driven by Gen Y/Z'ers trying to change lanes on the highway: 2 trying to merge and 1 trying to get to the off ramp come hell, high water or other drivers, none showing any situation awareness. Somehow they managed to avoid a pileup. Technology--social political--may change rapidly but human nature remains mired in the stone age.

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  #500 (permalink)
 syxforex 
British Columbia
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NINJA
Broker: ZEN
Trading: Crude
 
Posts: 1,091 since May 2010

The question is do you want your future tax bill going to Wall Street or Sesame Street?

Romney is Wall Street personified, a corporation and a person. As a wearer of magic underwear one can easily see why he may like the Big Bird and feels he must go.

The issue on taxes is not about the basic rate. It's about the code. The corporate tax code. Designed and delivered by those who create these bitter arguments about who will foot the public bill. Every middle class and poor person would accept a flat tax in a heartbeat. Why would Romney and the elite never see this, a rate that would guarantee all pay the same, they prefer the code, and the lie.

People are waking up. They are sick of sacrificing their lives to maintain the elite class, their trillion dollar bailouts, their belief that they are higher, more godly, too big to fail, and above free enterprise and competition. Free enterprise is free enterprise. It's not what the Bush's and Paulson's and the Romney's and these out of tough billionaires and rightist elite would have you believe. And they work so very hard at it.

Peopole are waking up. They are leaving their televisions in the past. WTFU

These 6 Corporations Control 90% Of The Media In America - Big Bird aint on the list.


These 6 Corporations Control 90% Of The Media In America - Business Insider

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futures io Trading Community Off-Topic > 2012 Election


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