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2012 Election

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  #301 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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I agree with your definition of fair markets vs corrupted, crony, anti-competitive markets.

Regarding my business, I'm doing just fine thank you. My PL analysis does't factor in the competition. I take precisely your approach to analysing my performance.

You are not right about JP Morgan taking irresponsible risks with tax payer money. And in fact, if I were throwing the US taxpayers money at the futures market I would be a far less risky government trader. JP Morgans market capitalization closed today at 157 Billion dollars. Market cap is the number of shares in the company times the share price. At the time of this loss the market cap of the company was 136 Billion. One single trader in a bank that employs thousands of traders, granted a senior trader, in one trade, lost 4.4% of the company total value. I never risk more than 2% of my business on a single trade. And yes, this could have triggered a domino effect in the house of cards that is wall street and yes the US taxpayer is on the hook for JP Morgans trading losses. No big deal in this case, they just called the fed and had 6 Billion sent over to cover it and went back to work making it back. Hard to lose trading a martingales system when you are backed by the taxpayers. And then there's the subsidies.. where's my subsidy, where's my free money, where's my bailout, why do I have to cover my own trading losses. Why do I have to explain to other market operators what a free market is.

77% of JP Morgan’s Net Income Comes from Government Subsidies
77% of JP Morgan?s Net Income Comes from Government Subsidies | ZeroHedge

J.P. Morgan's Loss Cost Taxpayers Nothing, This Time
J.P. Morgan's Loss Cost Taxpayers Nothing, This Time — Letters to the Editor - WSJ.com

JPMorgan: Ten Defenses Of The Indefensible
JPMorgan: Ten Defenses Of The Indefensible - Forbes

Romney campaign defends JPMorgan loss as market risk
UPDATE 1-Romney campaign defends JPMorgan loss as market risk | Reuters


JPMorgan Chase Gets $14 Billion Per Year In Government Subsidy: Study
JPMorgan Chase Gets $14 Billion Per Year In Government Subsidy: Study

J.P. Morgan reaps profits off the taxpayer
J.P. Morgan reaps profits off the taxpayer | United Liberty | Free Market - Individual Liberty - Limited Government

JPMorgan's $10 Billion Subsidy
JPMorgan's $10 Billion Subsidy - Businessweek









furytrader View Post
I think the discussion here about "fair games" is a bit misguided - a fair game means that everyone plays by the same rules and is treated the same. It doesn't mean that the outcomes should be the same ... although I do think that there is a strain of liberalism in the US that believes this should be the case.

As for Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley "playing with the taxpayer's money," I recall that JP Morgan earlier this year ponied up over $6 billion for a single bad trading strategy, and I don't recall anyone saying anything about having the taxpayers pay for that. Similarly, Knight Trading lost almost half a billion dollars in less than an hour, and I don't recall taxpayers paying a dime for that.

As for your own budding business, Syxforex, I am in the same business as you if that is trading. Every day, my trades go up against JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Citadel, Citigroup, Renaissance Technologies, and on and on. Whether I make or lose money is not because those guys have some hotline to the Treasury Department. It's because I decide when to buy or sell, when to enter markets and when to exit.


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  #302 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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And would somebody tell Mitt Romney what a free market is...

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  #303 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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  #304 (permalink)
 Jedi 
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Silver Dragon View Post
Level playing field:

@Jedi and @syxforex

Both of you guys talk it up about making everything fair, you know a "level playing field" where nobody is left behind and everybody wins or at the very least have a high chance of winning.

As you may well know about 90% of all traders fail. What would you do level the playing field for trading? What laws, regulations or redistribution would you implement to level the playing field so all traders succeed and not just the ones who work hard or have talent. Be specific.

Nobody is arguing for that kind of level playing field which is essentially communism.. That experiment has come and went so it had its chance to prove everyone wrong, but instead, it proved the merits of capitalism... So capitalism is here to stay..

However, the point is that as a nation, you want to avoid creating a small but overly powerful elite class (aristocrats) with a mass lower class.. That's characteristic of 3'rd world countries and precisely why they are 3'rd world.. due to the selfishness of their elite to the point of ridiculousness.. and then trust in the "benevolent and fair nature" of those elite to not abuse the lower class.. Just watch Tudors and you'll know what I mean.. What you want is to promote a mass middle class as they promote economic growth.. LIFE WILL NEVER BE FAIR AND THAT'S NOT THE AIM.. THE AIM IS TO BE REASONABLE WHICH IS ACHIEVABLE.. Its only reasonable that the rich pay more taxes.. If social programs can't be afforded, it should be cut back but people should know in reality, it doesn't serve anyones interests to let the lower middle class (majority of Americans) slide into the lower class..

As far as successful traders paying for failed traders, successful traders pay more taxes than failed traders so that's that.. Suppose only a small elite class has the opportunity to try their hand at trading while others have a hard time even entering the business because they don't have the opportunity.. 95% of traders in public forums lose money so that means 95% of traders reading this post and you know who you are.. shame on you if you don't have empathy for others who are struggling..

What we want is to avoid hindering the rich from getting there and thus far, this is not happening in our current tax structure..

Everybody is out for themselves and grab what they can and the rich are no different than the poor... If somebody will be chipping away at the treasury, better spent on social causes than to enrich the greedy.. Don't think its not happening...


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  #305 (permalink)
 Silver Dragon 
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Jedi View Post
Nobody is arguing for that kind of level playing field which is essentially communism.. That experiment has come and went so it had its chance to prove everyone wrong, but instead, it proved the merits of capitalism... So capitalism is here to stay..



As far as successful traders paying for failed traders, successful traders pay more taxes than failed traders so that's that.. Suppose only a small elite class has the opportunity to try their hand at trading while others have a hard time even entering the business because they don't have the opportunity.. 95% of traders in public forums lose money so that means 95% of traders reading this post and you know who you are.. shame on you if you don't have empathy for others who are struggling..

@Jedi

You seem disappointed that comunisim failed...

To sum up your answer of leveling the playing field: tax success and have empathy for those that fail.

Not sure how that is level; Those who were successful still have money and those who failed don't. You didnt do anything but give the government more money. Unless that is your answer to making the playing field level; give more money to the government so they can redistribute the success of others to those less successful.... But thats already being done.

I am disappointed.. I was really hoping for some actionable substance instead of social generalities you provided.






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  #306 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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The redistribution is already being done, the greatest in history, but it's gone from those that are small enough to fail to the more successful. Need a fact checker?



Silver Dragon View Post
@Jedi

You seem disappointed that comunisim failed...

To sum up your answer of leveling the playing field: tax success and have empathy for those that fail.

Not sure how that is level; Those who were successful still have money and those who failed don't. You didnt do anything but give the government more money. Unless that is your answer to making the playing field level; give more money to the government so they can redistribute the success of others to those less successful.... But thats already being done.

I am disappointed.. I was really hoping for some actionable substance instead of social generalities you provided.






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  #307 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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“And I think in the United States over the last generation or two we’ve been much better at generating wealth and much less good at distributing it.”

I think Mr. Goldman got this wrong. They've been much better at destroying wealth and much better at redistributing it. Thanks for the bailout that never ends Mr. Taxpayer.

Why does silver dragon keep labeling us free marketeers as communists. Please stop that.

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  #308 (permalink)
 Jedi 
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Silver Dragon View Post
@Jedi

You seem disappointed that comunisim failed...

To sum up your answer of leveling the playing field: tax success and have empathy for those that fail.

Not sure how that is level; Those who were successful still have money and those who failed don't. You didnt do anything but give the government more money. Unless that is your answer to making the playing field level; give more money to the government so they can redistribute the success of others to those less successful.... But thats already being done.

I am disappointed.. I was really hoping for some actionable substance instead of social generalities you provided.






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I never claimed to know the answers and nobody here has state actionable ideas that are well thought out so why put me to a higher standard to solve the problems of a country that is complex?

However, imo an environment that citizens can be socially mobile, that promotes philanthropy (not thru government inefficiencies and greased hands) and try to raise up the lower and lower middle into the middle class is good for a country.. I don't see any evidence that taxing the rich is hindering that environment for them.. I also think the super wealthy that don't engage in some form of philanthropy is also a disgrace and even more so if they behave in unethical greedy behavior, which is about as common as the poor abusing social services..

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  #309 (permalink)
 monpere 
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monpere View Post
...I can't wait for the presidential debates, somehow I think that is where Romney will literally go down in flames...

Apparently, we don't even have to wait for the debates.

 
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  #310 (permalink)
 Tarkus11 
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Should have posted this link in this thread:

Jon Stewart exposes Mitt Romney lies and Fox (Chaos on Bullshit Mountain) - YouTube

Funny - but more serious after 6min point.

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  #311 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Pretty good election tool

2012 Senate Outlook

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  #312 (permalink)
 Jedi 
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Tarkus11 View Post
Should have posted this link in this thread:

Jon Stewart exposes Mitt Romney lies and Fox (Chaos on Bullshit Mountain) - YouTube

Funny - but more serious after 6min point.

That's hilarious!! Nobody gets to the truth better than comedians.. If its not true, it wouldn't be funny... Love Stewart and Colbert..

The funny thing is I actually like both Romney and O'reilly as they both appear to be smart, able and decent guys.. but why complain about entitlement programs during recessionary times? Its like saying "I can't believe people are taking hand outs during economic hardships when jobs are scarce.. why aren't they getting a job?" That's an oxymoron.. When the economy is good, nobody ever talks about it and that's when it makes the most sense.. When jobs are plenty and you're not working, it makes a better case but nobody cares then..

Europe prior to the French Revolution was a 3'rd world country by today's standards.. What's the difference between then and now? The small elite aristocrats with a mass under class that barely gets by.. Is that the kind of society we want to move towards?

The US is not going down from overwhelmed social services weighing down our economy, its just that we now have global economic competition when we did not in the past. The US was about to enter a big recession when WW2 took us out. After WW2, Europe and Japan was destroyed and India and China did not exist.. The US supplied the world in everything without competition.. Jobs were plentiful and all you need is a HS education so the baby boomers naturally prospered in that environment.. Now that Europe has rebuilt its economy to compete with the US, and India has entered the world workforce due to the internet/and they speak English, and China has opened up its labor market, we wonder why the US is not booming financially as it did in the past and blame it on social programs.. That's way off.. The US is accustomed to a very high standard of living and now have to get used to the idea that salaries around the world will look to equalize.. That adjustment may be painful but hard to avoid.. The main blame goes to the development of a global internet infrastructure, globalization and the rapid progress of India, China and Europe.. Those are all good things but naturally this will impact the US.. Many of us feel we are upper class because we trade for a living but in reality, most of us here are just hard working blue collar guys trying to make a buck in the market.. I consider trading to be blue collar work though its fun and we can make a good living.. We're nowhere near the 1% that are supposedly carrying such a big tax burden.. If you're a good trader and you're smart, you'll start trading in your IRA account..

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  #313 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I love The West Wing...



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  #314 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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Art Cashin And Dick Fisher Expose The Farce That America's Corrupt And Bought Congress Has Become

Art Cashin And Dick Fisher Expose The Farce That America's Corrupt And Bought Congress Has Become | ZeroHedge


Since 1879, every chapel service at the Naval Academy concludes with a hymn that contains the following plea: “O hear us when we cry for Thee, for those in peril on the sea.” We cry for a nation that is in peril on the blustery seas of the economy. Our people are drowning in unemployment; our government is drowning in debt. You—the citizens and voters sitting in this room and elsewhere—are ultimately in command of the fleet that sails under the flag of the United States Congress. Demand that it performs its duty.

Just recently, in a hearing before the Senate, your senator and my Harvard classmate, Chuck Schumer, told Chairman Bernanke, “You are the only game in town.” I thought the chairman showed admirable restraint in his response. I would have immediately answered, “No, senator, you and your colleagues are the only game in town. For you and your colleagues, Democrat and Republican alike, have encumbered our nation with debt, sold our children down the river and sorely failed our nation. Sober up. Get your act together. Illegitimum non carborundum; get on with it. Sacrifice your political ambition for the good of our country—for the good of our children and grandchildren. For unless you do so, all the monetary policy accommodation the Federal Reserve can muster will be for naught.”

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  #315 (permalink)
 Jedi 
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What's also interesting is that many politicians are getting rich off a politician's salary.. That's another characteristic of 3'rd world countries.. greasing each other's hands and returning favors.. Like the tax collectors in bible times that used to get rich off a tax collector's salary so I believe in smaller government but social services should be encouraged not discouraged.. Much of my family on both sides of my parents are part of that 1% and have been for some time.. they may complain but taxes don't impact their lifestyle..

 
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  #316 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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‏@RBReich
Latest data: Unemployment has ticked up in half of states, but it's mostly among 47% Romney says he doesn't worry about.

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  #317 (permalink)
 heywally 
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Another good election and initiative tool:

Ballotpedia

"The Future Ain't what it used to be"
 
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  #318 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
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Jedi View Post
What's also interesting is that many politicians are getting rich off a politician's salary.. That's another characteristic of 3'rd world countries.. greasing each other's hands and returning favors.. Like the tax collectors in bible times that used to get rich off a tax collector's salary so I believe in smaller government but social services should be encouraged not discouraged.. Much of my family on both sides of my parents are part of that 1% and have been for some time.. they may complain but taxes don't impact their lifestyle..

I know I think Bill Clinton is worth 80 million. I am not sure he was even a millionaire when entered office. Why doesn't he give say 78 million to others or directly to the government since he is supporting Obama's redistribution campaign? He could still be a millionaire and would be showing how much he believes in the liberal message. I think his daughters wedding was estimated to cost 3 to 5 million. Champion for the poor and middle class. Hardly.

I would also say another characteristic of third world countries is government intrusion and attempted wealth redistribution. Of course the government redistribution does not work and the people in third world countries still stay poor because no jobs. Proving that these kinds of policies do not work. Venezuela and Cuba make good poster childs for the runaway success of redistribution government.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #319 (permalink)
 Jedi 
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liquidcci View Post
I know I think Bill Clinton is worth 80 million. I am not sure he was even a millionaire when entered office. Why doesn't he give say 78 million to others or directly to the government since he is supporting Obama's redistribution campaign? He could still be a millionaire and would be showing how much he believes in the liberal message. I think his daughters wedding was estimated to cost 3 to 5 million. Champion for the poor and middle class. Hardly.

I would also say another characteristic of third world countries is government intrusion and attempted wealth redistribution. Of course the government redistribution does not work and the people in third world countries still stay poor because no jobs. Proving that these kinds of policies do not work. Venezuela and Cuba make good poster childs for the runaway success of redistribution government.

If Clinton made most of that $$ after his office, that's not the same as making that fortune during office, which would be a conflict of interest.. I would love to be the toilet seat maker that sells the government $1000 toilet seats and don't mind kicking some back to the politician that granted me that contract.. That's the type of characteristics that are rife in 3'rd world countries.. I don't have anything against the wealthy spending their money in any way they like and if they want to splurge on their daughter's wedding, I'm all for it.. I'd do the same.. Clinton is involved with many social services and likely in philanthropy as well.. There are plenty of super wealthy people (we have more super wealthy now than any time in history) that don't engage in any form of philanthropy but want more.. Are those characteristics admirable? Those types of characteristics usually comes along with some other less than admirable characteristics as well.. If the wealthy complain about taxes, engage in philanthropy thru a non-profit.. We come into the world with nothing and we will leave with nothing.. Take care of your family and do something with your money that makes an impact, which is usually spent on people and not things.. Re-distribution is not the intent but nation building and the advancement of society is.. That's the government's job.. Just because they try don't mean they succeed, but cant blame countries for trying.. As long as the effort don't hinder upward mobility, its justified.. history has tried a lot of stuff, we have a lot of frame of reference to refer to..

Without some social safety net, society will develop chaos and anarchy.. Mad MAx beyond thunderdom.. Road Warrior...ha

Mad Max - Beyond Thunderdome - YouTube

 
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  #320 (permalink)
 monpere 
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liquidcci View Post
...
I know I think Bill Clinton is worth 80 million. I am not sure he was even a millionaire when entered office. Why doesn't he give say 78 million to others or directly to the government since he is supporting Obama's redistribution campaign? He could still be a millionaire and would be showing how much he believes in the liberal message. I think his daughters wedding was estimated to cost 3 to 5 million. Champion for the poor and middle class. Hardly.
....

Come on man, Really? If you are gonna contribute to the conversation, contribute something worthwhile. You've made some excellent points so far, but this statement is not worth the time you took to write it down. Don't mean to single you out, there's been a lot of these types of statements made by others as well that really serve no purpose.

 
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  #321 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
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Jedi View Post
Re-distribution is not the intent but nation building and the advancement of society is.. That's the government's job.. Just because they try don't mean they succeed, but cant blame countries for trying.. As long as the effort don't hinder upward mobility, its justified.. history has tried a lot of stuff, we have a lot of frame of reference to refer to..


My point was really not if Clinton made his money while in office or after in office. My point was if he is a believer in these types of policies and class ware fare why does he put his money where his mouth is and give most of his fortune to the government.

You can't relabel re-distribution as nation building. Do you really believe giving the government more money will equal a larger middle class and better standard of living for all? The US government is one of the most inefficient money wasters of all time. The middle class was not built by the government and it is not the governments job to redistribute money.

So you are saying what Hugo Chavez is doing in Venezuela is justified? That we can't blame him for trying?

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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  #322 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
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monpere View Post
Come on man, Really? If you are gonna contribute to the conversation, contribute something worthwhile. This statement is not worth the time you took to write it down. Don't mean to single you out, there's been a lot of these types of statements made by others as well that really serve no purpose.

@monpere I have no problem with the way Clinton spends his money. But I 100% stand by my statement. You may not like my statement but calling it useless is not productive.

These guys talk like they want to help the poor but live like kings. I have no problem with someone living like a king. But if going to live like a king don't act like you really care for the poor. At least give your daughter a 1 million wedding and give the other 4 million to help someone. If you really care for the poor and believe government is the answer then make a massive investment with your own money into the government treasury. Show me that you believe what you are saying. Don't just use the poor to get votes while driving around in your Maserati. What I hate is the double speak and double standard which is the point of what I said..

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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  #323 (permalink)
 furytrader 
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You should the report that the Washington Examiner ran recently on Obama - while I don't think it's the best instance of investigative journalism (a number of the issues they highlight are fairly irrelevant), there is a great section on the millions that are made by politically connected insiders who become involved in community revitalization projects, at least here in Chicago.

Introduction: The Obama you don't know | WashingtonExaminer.com

 
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  #324 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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Is Clinton running? Is giving an extra point or two on your taxes giving most of your fortune to the government?

The rich got bailed out on a scale the world has never seen, 'THE LAREGEST WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION IN HISTORY'. These uncapitalist and non-free market policies that run counter to everything the free market stands for. This is extreme right wing socialism on the Chavez scale. S

ome degree of rebalancing is needed, even the Goldmans recognize that. It's time to give back a bit of what was taken and to be a team player and to face up to the tax debt. An extra point or two is really going to change the life of the elites while they get inflated to the moon by the actions of their congress's coffers and the Fed?

America is in crisis, I think people need to start thinking a bit more like team players to get through it.




liquidcci View Post
My point was really not if Clinton made his money while in office or after in office. My point was if he is a believer in these types of policies and class ware fare why does he put his money where his mouth is and give most of his fortune to the government.

You can't relabel re-distribution as nation building. Do you really believe giving the government more money will equal a larger middle class and better standard of living for all? The US government is one of the most inefficient money wasters of all time. The middle class was not built by the government and it is not the governments job to redistribute money.

So you are saying what Hugo Chavez is doing in Venezuela is justified? That we can't blame him for trying?


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  #325 (permalink)
 Jedi 
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liquidcci View Post
My point was really not if Clinton made his money while in office or after in office. My point was if he is a believer in these types of policies and class ware fare why does he put his money where his mouth is and give most of his fortune to the government.

You can't relabel re-distribution as nation building. Do you really believe giving the government more money will equal a larger middle class and better standard of living for all? The US government is one of the most inefficient money wasters of all time. The middle class was not built by the government and it is not the governments job to redistribute money.

So you are saying what Hugo Chavez is doing in Venezuela is justified? That we can't blame him for trying?

Hugo Chavez is an extreme example.. raising taxes some on the wealthy to alleviate some of the deficit does not make us Hugo Chavez.. Nobody is arguing with the inefficiencies of governments but cutting social services in lieu of raising taxes on the rich during recessionary times don't make sense and it also don't make sense during economic boom times.. THOUGH during boom times is the right time to aggressively cut back on those programs and you'll more likely hit the lazy for not working and gaming the system..

Its stupid for Clinton to give his $$ to government but it would also be stupid for government to cut social programs in lieu of taxing the rich unless they have a good reason to.. They say it helps the economy but I don't buy it because demand is what enhance the economy.. The demand from the wealthy will always be stable, while the demand of the mass is what drives the economy.. Baby boomers spending in the economy as well as exporting our goods is what drove the US economy into the world's richest and hence most powerful nation.. It was the perfect storm after ww2 for the US to ascend but we're dealing with a different landscape now.. We have to somehow find a way to rebuild out middle class and it will be much harder this time.. If not, the US as we know it will recede from its past..

 
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  #326 (permalink)
 furytrader 
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Syxforex, do you really believe that if JP Morgan, Citigroup and Washington Mutual were allowed to collapse, that the RICH would be the only people who would suffer? Really?

Also, the last time I checked, the vast majority of money lent to the big banks has been paid back .... so, ummm, in terms of it being the "biggest wealth redistribution in history", I think you need to check your facts.

 
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 liquidcci 
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syxforex View Post
Is Clinton running? Is giving an extra point or two on your taxes giving most of your fortune to the government?

The rich got bailed out on a scale the world has never seen, 'THE LAREGEST WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION IN HISTORY'. These uncapitalist and non-free market policies that run counter to everything the free market stands for. This is extreme right wing socialism on the Chavez scale. S

ome degree of rebalancing is needed, even the Goldmans recognize that. It's time to give back a bit of what was taken and to be a team player and to face up to the tax debt. An extra point or two is really going to change the life of the elites while they get inflated to the moon by the actions of their congress's coffers and the Fed?

America is in crisis, I think people need to start thinking a bit more like team players to get through it.

sysforex it is not the just the elites that are going to be taxed heavier it is the small business owner. But even that will not put a dent in the problem so next it will be the the rest of the middle class. There is a mathematical problem. Then add in that every dollar that goes into the US government a very large amount is wasted and you accomplish nothing.

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 Cloudy 
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Just some off the wall thought. Right around when Obama announced TARP 2 (with Nancy Pelosi beaming next to him) and making those who took a chance and voted for him feel like dupes again, I thought it would be funny if the fed. government instead of Bush's TARP1 and Obama's TARP2 payoff to the banksters, instead wrote 1 million dollar checks to each and every household/or ss# in the U.S. It would probably be still majorly screwed up in the end, but I kept thinking now that would be some real stimulus! An injection of real party time to Americans on a crazy high the world has never seen! But nope, the globalists wouldn't even let the masses have fun while the lights go out.

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 syxforex 
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Well, I know, the US government makes us Canadian look like Libertarians... But's it's one heck of a big machine... I'm all for savings, but the rich have got to pay up for what they've taken from the system at the expense of the taxpayers, and that debt has to be grappled with now, not next year, now... going to hurt... And nobody that understands the new world order really believes that giving the 1% a tax break so they can invest in the next great emerging market and make themselves ever richer is the right way forward.


liquidcci View Post
sysforex it is not the just the elites that are going to be taxed heavier it is the small business owner. But even that will not put a dent in the problem so next it will be the the rest of the middle class. There is a mathematical problem. Then add in that every dollar that goes into the US government a very large amount is wasted and you accomplish nothing.


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 liquidcci 
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Jedi View Post
Hugo Chavez is an extreme example.. raising taxes some on the wealthy to alleviate some of the deficit does not make us Hugo Chavez.. Nobody is arguing with the inefficiencies of governments but cutting social services in lieu of raising taxes on the rich during recessionary times don't make sense and it also don't make sense during economic boom times.. THOUGH during boom times is the right time to aggressively cut back on those programs and you'll more likely hit the lazy for not working and gaming the system..

Its stupid for Clinton to give his $$ to government but it would also be stupid for government to cut social programs in lieu of taxing the rich unless they have a good reason to.. They say it helps the economy but I don't buy it because demand is what enhance the economy.. The demand from the wealthy will always be stable, while the demand of the mass is what drives the economy.. Baby boomers spending in the economy as well as exporting our goods is what drove the US economy into the world's richest and hence most powerful nation.. It was the perfect storm after ww2 for the US to ascend but we're dealing with a different landscape now.. We have to somehow find a way to rebuild out middle class and it will be much harder this time.. If not, the US as we know it will recede from its past..

@Jedi I don't think all social services have to be cut. But we have a spending problem largely do to waste and programs that don't work. The system is broken and throwing more money at it will not fix it. I agree Hugo Chavez is an extreme example.

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 syxforex 
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What would have worked would have been instead of giving them the taxpayers money the US government should have just bought the companies. That way the record profits they made would have been the taxpayers, instead, it flowed to those banks customers in the hedge and private fund world, domestic and international.


Cloudy View Post
Just some off the wall thought. Right around when Obama announced TARP 2 (with Nancy Pelosi beaming next to him) and making those who took a chance and voted for him feel like dupes again, I thought it would be funny if the fed. government instead of Bush's TARP1 and Obama's TARP2 payoff to the banksters, instead wrote 1 million dollar checks to each and every household/or ss# in the U.S. It would probably be still majorly screwed up in the end, but I kept thinking now that would be some real stimulus! An injection of real party time to Americans on a crazy high the world has never seen! But nope, the globalists wouldn't even let the masses have fun while the lights go out.


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  #332 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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"You can't relabel re-distribution as nation building."

Paulson, Bush, and the Goldman-Government team orchestrated the largest redistribution in history of mankind, and called it new world order building.

I prefer Ron Paul and the Libertarians, but the reality of the situation is that Romney is a new world order banker and Obama, I don't really know what he is, but he is anti-banker, so, for me, that's where I'm at. Reign these people in and have them give something back and pay their due.


liquidcci View Post
My point was really not if Clinton made his money while in office or after in office. My point was if he is a believer in these types of policies and class ware fare why does he put his money where his mouth is and give most of his fortune to the government.

You can't relabel re-distribution as nation building. Do you really believe giving the government more money will equal a larger middle class and better standard of living for all? The US government is one of the most inefficient money wasters of all time. The middle class was not built by the government and it is not the governments job to redistribute money.

So you are saying what Hugo Chavez is doing in Venezuela is justified? That we can't blame him for trying?


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  #333 (permalink)
 Jedi 
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syxforex View Post
What would have worked would have been instead of giving them the taxpayers money the US government should have just bought the companies. That way the record profits they made would have been the taxpayers, instead, it flowed to those banks customers in the hedge and private fund world, domestic and international.

Y.. and then sold it back into the private sector but the big wigs will flip out.. They will give plenty of reasons why that's not a good idea real or propaganda.. At least those big bonuses would have been controlled.. The rationale given was "those big bonuses are necessary to keep talent." during recessionary times.. sure.. I've worked in corporate and when a leader is replaced, the next one up the ranks will do just fine... The key is the integrity and empathy of the leader that makes the biggest difference.. Most people close to the top ranks are all pretty talented and easily replace each other..

 
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  #334 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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I have old friends in those high positions at the bulge bracket banks. Hell, I went to the Deutche Bank Christmas party in Hong Kong one year... and let me tell ya, they aint that talented...


Jedi View Post
Y.. and then sold it back into the private sector but the big wigs will flip out.. They will give plenty of reasons why that's not a good idea real or propaganda.. At least those big bonuses would have been controlled.. The rationale given was "those big bonuses are necessary to keep talent." during recessionary times.. sure.. I've worked in corporate and when a leader is replaced, the next one up the ranks will do just fine... The key is the integrity and empathy of the leader that makes the biggest difference.. Most people close to the top ranks are all pretty talented and easily replace each other..


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 Big Mike 
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No idea on the accuracy of this (seems way off from other polls like CNN), but fun to watch nonetheless

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 Tarkus11 
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Cloudy View Post
Just some off the wall thought. Right around when Obama announced TARP 2 (with Nancy Pelosi beaming next to him) and making those who took a chance and voted for him feel like dupes again, I thought it would be funny if the fed. government instead of Bush's TARP1 and Obama's TARP2 payoff to the banksters, instead wrote 1 million dollar checks to each and every household/or ss# in the U.S. It would probably be still majorly screwed up in the end, but I kept thinking now that would be some real stimulus! An injection of real party time to Americans on a crazy high the world has never seen! But nope, the globalists wouldn't even let the masses have fun while the lights go out.


Sounds like a party!!

The problem, of course, is that most of that extra spending to buy stuff would flow to the manufacturers of the stuff - largely outside of the US. So it would be a bump for their hiring, not so much the U.S.

And once the Kool-Aid runs out, it'd be back to the same old same old...

Same goes for tax cuts - they've got to fix the leak in the plumbing so enough of the water flows back to refill the well, or all you're going to get is parched earth.

Also, government can help with employment, but it's over the long-term. Inventions in computing, the internet (DARPA), decoding the human genome (picked up and done better by Craig Venter later at Celera - but started by the gov't) are examples of government "intervention" that build foundations that private companies later exploit for money (and that creates jobs/wealth).

Really risky stuff is what gov't is supposed to invest in, because it has no pressure to produce immediate profits. Once the profit looks like it is there, then the "Captains of Industry" can summon their "Animal Spirits" and start grabbing with both hands.

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 Jedi 
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Here are some things that can be actionable:

- US companies are only allowed to be sold to US citizens..
- US Real Estate are only allowed to be sold to US citizens..
- Some tarifs, but nothing crazy to halt cheaper/better products from entering the country.. lots of revenue there..
- US citizens given preference in hiring for skilled labors
- US companies that gives education re-imbursements can be additionally supplemented by government to get needed skills
- Those on social programs are required to do some weekly volunteer work to prevent them from gaming the system
- Strict crime laws like Singapore
- Regulate prostitution and drugs to bring pimps and dealers out of business..
- Providing centers with food and shelter for the homeless is cheap and wont bring our deficits out of control.. If you're on food stamp for an extended time and you're not handicapped, you're required to go eat at those food centers.. If you have any pride, that should motivate you to go look for work..

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 syxforex 
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But, but, if we send all our jobs and tax money to Africa we can all get a 10,000 Lexus...:car:


Jedi View Post
Here are some things that can be actionable:

- US companies are only allowed to be sold to US citizens..
- US Real Estate are only allowed to be sold to US citizens..
- Some tarifs, but nothing crazy to halt cheaper/better products from entering the country.. lots of revenue there..
- US citizens given preference in hiring for skilled labors
- US companies that gives education re-imbursements can be additionally supplemented by government to get needed skills
- Those on social programs are required to do some weekly volunteer work to prevent them from gaming the system
- Strict crime laws like Singapore
- Regulate prostitution and drugs to bring pimps and dealers out of business..
- Providing centers with food and shelter for the homeless is cheap and wont bring our deficits out of control.. If you're on food stamp for an extended time and you're not handicapped, you're required to go eat at those food centers.. If you have any pride, that should motivate you to go look for work..


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 syxforex 
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@BreakingNews
Mitt Romney's 2011 tax return will be made available to the public at 3pm today

Note From Trustee Brad Malt

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 syxforex 
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Romneys 2011 tax rate 14.1%, Charity donations: 30%; Obamas ta rate: 20.5%, Charity donations: 22%

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 syxforex 
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44 Companies That Could Get Crushed If The Government Cuts Spending

The Companies That Would Go Over The Fiscal Cliff - Business Insider

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 syxforex 
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@maxkeiser

Republicans didn't have the balls to let Ron Paul win the nomination so they deserve to lose. Go big or stay home, GOP

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 syxforex 
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Ray Dalio talking about a Hitler coming to power... Right Wing Socialist?

Ray Dalio’s “Biggest” Worry About The Global Economy Involves Hitler Circa 1933 Dealbreaker: Wall Street Insider ? Financial News, Headlines, Commentary and Analysis – Hedge Funds, Private Equity, Banks

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 Victory Trader 
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THE SIMPSONS - Homer Votes 2012 - YouTube

 
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 syxforex 
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The Entire 2012 Election Will Be Decided By NINE Counties

9 Counties That Could Swing The Election - Business Insider

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Loved the factory in China making USA flags...



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Poll closed, results:



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 syxforex 
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@businessinsider
Thank You, Millions Of Anonymous Chinese Workers Making $2 An Hour, We Love Out iPhone 5s!

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 syxforex 
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@ReutersOpinion
Both Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party can trace their roots back to the same man.

The radical right-wing roots of Occupy Wall Street

The radical right-wing roots of Occupy Wall Street | The Great Debate





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 syxforex 
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What You Need to Know About Mitt Romney's 2011 Tax Return

Meet the new Romney tax return, nearly the same as the old Romney tax return.

It was quite the disclosure day for the Romney campaign. Aside from releasing the broad outlines of how much he paid between 1990 and 2009, the Romney campaign also sent out his 2011 tax return. It was 379 pages of disclosures that mostly disclosed what we already knew from his 2010 tax return: Romney makes a lot of money, he gets a lot of money from offshore investment accounts, and he gives away a lot of money. Oh, and he pays a very low effective federal tax rate -- lower than what many middle-class households pay. Here's what you need to know.

What You Need to Know About Mitt Romney's 2011 Tax Return - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic

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  #351 (permalink)
 Jedi 
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syxforex View Post
What You Need to Know About Mitt Romney's 2011 Tax Return

Meet the new Romney tax return, nearly the same as the old Romney tax return.

It was quite the disclosure day for the Romney campaign. Aside from releasing the broad outlines of how much he paid between 1990 and 2009, the Romney campaign also sent out his 2011 tax return. It was 379 pages of disclosures that mostly disclosed what we already knew from his 2010 tax return: Romney makes a lot of money, he gets a lot of money from offshore investment accounts, and he gives away a lot of money. Oh, and he pays a very low effective federal tax rate -- lower than what many middle-class households pay. Here's what you need to know.

What You Need to Know About Mitt Romney's 2011 Tax Return - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic

The world is full of ironies..

Although it would not be right for government to put the bigger burden on the poor as both rich and poor citizens lobby FOR THEMSELVES.. only rich fools try to pay as much taxes as possible and Romney is no fool.. The important information is that Romney gave a lot in philanthropy (almost 40% which is VERY GENEROUS) and that tells you something about the man.. he also walked away from a lucrative CEO position from Bain to seek public office which is similar to Obama that sought public office over wealth.. Both have noble intent to serve, though different ideologies.. I like Romney and I think both Romney or Obama make excellent choices though they will both implement their own "experiments" and that's exactly what it is... an "experiment"..

Personally, I like Obama's concepts slightly better but Obama also had his chance and he's accomplished most of what he sought to do.. Not sure what he's aiming for now.. Romney needs clear ideas and convey what he's out to accomplish and how he will do it if he wants a chance at the presidency.. I don't discriminate against the rich..

 
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 syxforex 
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U.S. not ready for Canada’s deficit playbook

Globe article highlighting the ability of the Canadian government and electorate to face up to the deficit and take out the axe back in the 90's and the challenge the US is faced with.

American politics at the moment seem incapable of that kind of consensus. Neither side gives ground until one of two things loom -- disaster, or a congressional holiday. (And the former tends to cause lawmakers to punt, rather than embrace a real solution.) In Canada, electoral losers tend to behave as such, clearing a path to getting things done. In the U.S., the electoral losers do everything in their power to block their opponents. And these days, there are more checks than balances.

So where does this leave us? After an ideologically charged election, the U.S.’s political leaders will have to take steps to shift the debate to neutral ground – as Mr. Martin said Tuesday, make it a question of “arithmetic” rather than an unwinnable struggle over the merits of “small” and “big” government. That could take a second deficit commission, or at least a president who is focused on little else. It seems unlikely that could be done in less than a year. If interest rates stay low, that’s enough time. Mr. Martin said he senses that U.S. officials believe that will be the case. He’s not so sure. “I would suggest to you there is a tipping point,” he said.



U.S. not ready for Canada?s deficit playbook - The Globe and Mail

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 syxforex 
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An elite new world order banker paying a lower tax rate than the middle class is very difficult for most people to understand. I do understand any person's desire to minimize their taxes. What tell's me a lot about Mitt Romney, however, is that he prefers a rigged game to a fair game when it comes to taxes. Why wouldn't Romney support a flat tax so the poor and middle class, who have mostly had their lives turned upside down by his elite class, could pay a rate down at his level?

Attention Mitt Romney: Russia Has a Flat Tax and Almost no Debt

Attention Mitt Romney: Russia Has a Flat Tax and Almost no Debt - Forbes


Jedi View Post
The world is full of ironies..

Although it would not be right for government to put the bigger burden on the poor as both rich and poor citizens lobby FOR THEMSELVES.. only rich fools try to pay as much taxes as possible and Romney is no fool.. The important information is that Romney gave a lot in philanthropy (almost 40% which is VERY GENEROUS) and that tells you something about the man.. he also walked away from a lucrative CEO position from Bain to seek public office which is similar to Obama that sought public office over wealth.. Both have noble intent to serve, though different ideologies.. I like Romney and I think both Romney or Obama make excellent choices though they will both implement their own "experiments" and that's exactly what it is... an "experiment"..

Personally, I like Obama's concepts slightly better but Obama also had his chance and he's accomplished most of what he sought to do.. Not sure what he's aiming for now.. Romney needs clear ideas and convey what he's out to accomplish and how he will do it if he wants a chance at the presidency.. I don't discriminate against the rich..


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 syxforex 
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Romney Senior Adviser Monsanto Man

Romney was simply doing his job by helping Monsanto reinvent itself. Financially speaking, he succeeded immensely. However, he’s signaled that he would lift up the agricultural giant even higher should he become president; for one thing, his Agricultural Advisory Committee is packed full of Monsanto lobbyists and partners.




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 syxforex 
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How Mitt Romney Helped Monsanto Take Over the World

Dr. Earl Beaver, who was Monsanto's waste director during the Bain period, says that Bain was certainly "aware" of the "PCB and dioxin scandals" because they created "a negative public perception that was costing the company money." So Bain recommended focusing "on the businesses that didn't have those perceptions," Beaver recalls, starting with "life science products that were biologically based," including genetically engineered crops, as well as Roundup, the hugely profitable weed-killer. "These were the products that Bain gave their go-ahead to," Beaver contends, noting that Romney was a key player, "reviewing the data collected by other people and developing alternatives," talking mostly to "the higher muckety-mucks."

How Mitt Romney Helped Monsanto Take Over the World | Mother Jones

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 furytrader 
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Syxforex, don't you guys in Canada have anything better to do on a Saturday than reproduce a bunch of liberal press releases about the US presidential elections?

 
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 syxforex 
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Forbes a liberal? Truth hurts, facts hurt, it's life...

But your right. I am too bored, so goona get me some of Mitt's Monsanto Roundup Ready Corn and let the world be..

By the way, I'm not a Liberal, I'm a Libertarian, my nemesis is the new world order, and Mitt is the NWO poster child.

If the Republicans had done the right thing and put Ron Paul forward, I would be spending my Saturday spreading his message.

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 Silver Dragon 
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furytrader View Post
Syxforex, don't you guys in Canada have anything better to do on a Saturday than reproduce a bunch of liberal press releases about the US presidential elections?

He just wants attention.

Let me sum up for you; he has a MBA but works as a cab driver working 60 hours a week while trading full time. He can't afford a pair of shoes but has trading account. " It's complicated" he said. Oh, did I mention he has posted 400 times in the last 2 week from 8 am to midnight. I guess they do not sleep Canada. You can make your own conclusions on what he is actually doing here.

I putting him on ignore because I am tired of his diatribe he perpetrates on this thread.







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nosce te ipsum

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 furytrader 
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What I always find funny is how vitriolic some people are about US politics ... who themselves aren't Americans.

That doesn't mean that you aren't welcome to your opinion - you are, of course - but why is it that you never see Americans opine with such fervor and alacrity when it comes to, say, Canadian politics?

And, I'm glad that you clarified that you believe that Mitt Romney is at the vanguard of the New World Order.

I'm really glad you put that out in the open.

Thank you.

 
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 syxforex 
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I'm a Survivor. My life got steam rolled by the financial crisis, caused by Romney's people in the NWO. I've taken my skills and abilities and invested 100% of my soul into learning the markets and becoming a professional trader. I lived through the financial crisis the hard way. Your insults are not welcome. Neither is your candidate. I'm tired of bankers running the world.


Silver Dragon View Post
He just wants attention.

Let me sum up for you; he has a MBA but works as a cab driver working 60 hours a week while trading full time. He can't afford a pair of shoes but has trading account. " It's complicated" he said. Oh, did I mention he has posted 400 times in the last 2 week from 8 am to midnight. I guess they do not sleep Canada. You can make your own conclusions on what he is actually doing here.

I putting him on ignore because I am tired of his diatribe he perpetrates on this thread.







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 syxforex 
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What happens their happens here, not the other way around. What happens there affects the world, its economy, and all of its people. America is a world leader. I have as great an interest in this as you do.

Show me an example of vitriol? You'all just talk and spit venom and never ever do I hear or see any facts.



furytrader View Post
What I always find funny is how vitriolic some people are about US politics ... who themselves aren't Americans.

That doesn't mean that you aren't welcome to your opinion - you are, of course - but why is it that you never see Americans opine with such fervor and alacrity when it comes to, say, Canadian politics?

And, I'm glad that you clarified that you believe that Mitt Romney is at the vanguard of the New World Order.

I'm really glad you put that out in the open.

Thank you.


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 kbit 
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There will be nationwide protests this weekend calling for an end to the Fed

The “official” End The Fed 2012 website lists protests at the following Federal Reserve Banks:

Boston

Washington DC

New York

Philadelphia

Cleveland

Richmond

Atlanta

Chicago

St. Louis

Minneapolis

Kansas City

Dallas

Houston

San Francisco

Denver

Jacksonville

Los Angeles

San Antonio

Charlotte

Salt Lake City

Oklahoma City

Detroit

(There are 12 main Federal Reserve Banks, but quite a few additional branch offices.) Or check out this Facebook page.

Remember, numerous economists say that we must end or substantially rein in the Fed.

Most Americans agree.

Both liberal and conservative protesters – Occupy and Tea Party alike – have railed against the unchecked power of the Federal Reserve.

Indeed, the support among the public and House for auditing the Fed is almost 100% … but Democratic Senate leader Reid has vowed to kill an audit (even though he previously supported it).
Third Party Candidate – Who Is On the Ballot In All 50 States – Files Lawsuit Demanding Inclusion in Presidential Debates


The American people are sick of both the Republican and Democratic party, and yearn for something different. See this, this and this.

No wonder … the mainstream Democratic and Republican parties agree on most matters which affect American lives the most directly. Here, here, here here and here. And – as this 4-minute video shows – they both ignore the desires of their own bases.

Obama and Romney are virtually indistinguishable on most core issues. For example: jobs, freedoms and favoring fatcats instead of the little guy.

The Founding Fathers warned – at the very birth of our nation – against a two-party system as being destructive to liberty.

For example, the Republican and Democratic parties have long formed Gentlemen’s agreements – through the “Presidential Debate Commission” – on what topics are “off-limits” (and which journalists can even ask questions) during presidential debates:


The Presidential Debate Commission (PDC) is run by former chairmen of the Democratic and Republican parties. The debates almost always exclude third-party candidates.

Gary Johnson is looking to change that.

The Libertarian candidate for president – who will be on all 50 states’ ballots this election, and who is currently polling at around 5% of the vote – Johnson (and his vice presidential running mate, retired judge Jim Gray) have filed an antitrust lawsuit against the PDC for excluding them from the debates:

The Gov. Gary Johnson/Judge Jim Gray Campaign has filed an antitrust lawsuit against the Democrats, Republicans, & the Commission on Presidential Debates for antitrust and anticompetitive acts. The voters deserve competition!

The lawsuit comes after the PDC’s failure to respond to the following letter from Johnson last month:

Dear [Commission Member]

I am writing to request that the national Commission on Presidential Debates reconsider your current – and exclusionary – requirements for participation in this Fall’s all-important Presidential and Vice-Presidential debates.

I am well aware of the history and genesis of the Commission, including the reality that it was created largely by the respective national leadership of the Democrat and Republican Parties. While I respect and understand the intention to provide a reasonable and theoretically nonpartisan structure for the presidential debate process, I would suggest that the Commission’s founding, organization and policies are heavily skewed toward limiting the debates to the two so-called major parties.

That is unfortunate, and frankly, out of touch with the electorate. You rely very heavily on polling data to determine who may participate in your debates, yet your use of criteria that are clearly designed to limit participation to the Republican and the Democrat nominee ignore the fact that many credible polls indicate that a full one-third of the electorate do not clearly identify with either of those parties. Rather, they are independents whose voting choices are not determined by party affiliation.

That one-third of the voters, as well as independent-thinking Republicans and Democrats, deserve an opportunity to see and hear a credible “third party” candidate. I understand that there are a great many “third party” candidates, and that a line must be drawn somewhere. However, the simple reality of our Electoral College system draws that line in a very straightforward and fair way – a reality that is reflected in your existing criteria. If a candidate is not on the ballot in a sufficient number of states to be elected by the Electoral College, it is perfectly logical to not include that candidate in a national debate. If, on other hand, a candidate IS on the ballot in enough states to be elected, there i s no logic by which that candidate should be excluded.

Nowhere in the Constitution or in law is it written that our President must be a Democrat or a Republican. However, it IS written that a candidate must receive a majority of the votes – or at least 50% – cast by electors, and that any candidate who does so, and otherwise meets the Constitution’s requirements, may be President.

As the Libertarian Party’s nominees for Vice-President and President, Judge Jim Gray and I have already qualified to be on the ballot in more than enough states to obtain a majority in the Electoral College, and we are the only candidates other than the Republican and Democrat nominees to have done so, or who are likely to do so. In fact, we fully intend and expect to be on the ballots of all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

However, the Commission has chosen to impose yet another requirement for participation: 15% in selected public opinion polls. Unlike your other requirements, this polling performance criterion is entirely arbitrary and based, frankly, on nothing other than an apparent attempt to limit participation to the Democrat and the Republican.

Requiring a certain level of approval in the polls has nothing to do with fitness to serve, experience or credibility as a potential President. Rather, it has everything to do with the hundreds of millions of dollars available to and spent by the two major party candidates, the self-fulfilling bias of the news media against the viability of third party candidates, and an ill-founded belief that past dominance of the Republican and Democrat Parties should somehow be a template for the future.

In all due respect, it is not the proper role of a non-elected, private and tax-exempt organization to narrow the voters’ choices to only the two major party candidates – which is the net effect of your arbitrary polling requirement. To the contrary, debates are the one element of modern campaigns and elections that should be immune to unfair advantages based upon funding and party structure. Yet, it is clear that the Commission’s criteria have both the intent and the effect of limiting voters’ choices to the candidates of the two major parties who, in fact, created the Commission in the first place.

Eliminating the arbitrary polling requirement would align the Commission and its procedure for deciding who may participate in the critical debates with fairness and true nonpartisanship, which was the purported intent behind the Commission’s creation. As of right now, eliminating that requirement would not disrupt the process or make it unmanageable. Rather, it would simply allow the participation of a two-term governor who has more executive experience than Messrs. Obama and Romney combined, who has garnered sufficiently broad support to be on the ballot in more than enough states to achieve a majority in the Electoral College, and who, without the help of party resources and special interests, has attracted enough financial support to qualify for presidential campaign matching funds.

I urge and request you to remove the partisanship from the debates, and allow the voters an opportunity to hear from all of the qualified candidates – not just those who happen to be a Democrat or a Republican.

Thank you.

Governor Gary Johnson


Nationwide "End the Fed" Protests ... Libertarian Candidate Sues to Break Into Presidential Debates | ZeroHedge

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 Big Mike 
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 syxforex 
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My apologies for hijacking the thread and upsetting so many people. I really have no business in this thread anyways. I am a bored human being. I will spam the twitter world henceforth, apologies again. Did not intend to be vitriolic.

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 monpere 
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Silver Dragon View Post
He just wants attention.

Let me sum up for you; he has a MBA but works as a cab driver working 60 hours a week while trading full time. He can't afford a pair of shoes but has trading account. " It's complicated" he said. Oh, did I mention he has posted 400 times in the last 2 week from 8 am to midnight. I guess they do not sleep Canada. You can make your own conclusions on what he is actually doing here.

I putting him on ignore because I am tired of his diatribe he perpetrates on this thread.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Come on people! What's next? Your mama's so fat jokes...????

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 furytrader 
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Syxforex, as a self-proclaimed libertarian, if you believe that Mitt Romney is more of a threat to personal liberty and economic freedom than Barack Obama, I think you need to stop and reconsider your logic.

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 syxforex 
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I was Ron Paul's greatest champion until the New World Order silenced him.


furytrader View Post
Syxforex, as a self-proclaimed libertarian, if you believe that Mitt Romney is more of a threat to personal liberty and economic freedom than Barack Obama, I think you need to stop and reconsider your logic.


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 kbit 
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
............Chinese proverb/the Chicago way

Original Chinese Proverb:
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.


2012 White House Revision:
Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with
unlimited free minutes, cash for his clunker, food
stamps, section 8 housing, free contraceptives,
Medicaid, ninety-nine weeks of unemployment, free
medicine, and he will vote for Democrats the rest of
his life; even after he's deceased.

.........................................................................

 
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 bnichols 
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Interesting debate but a couple of things I learned from OT sections of other forums to which I subscribe (for motorcycle and firearms enthusiasts, respectively), which are not as well moderated as futures.io (formerly BMT) are first, not to take too seriously opinions about politics or religion posted on the Interwebz; and second, not to participate in them

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 syxforex 
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The two biggest threats to my personal liberty at the moment are Monsanto seeds and the war on drugs.

Romney is backed by Monsanto. He's been a key builder of the Monsanto business and he wants to push for their perceived rights to own the world's food supply. No person and no corporation has this right, in my opinion.

Romney and the Republicans support an expanded war on drugs where Obama is friendlier to the States that want to legalize pot and end the war.

Both of these issues affect me personally, from where I sit. Both work against my personal freedoms as a human being on mother earth. So at the moment, for me, Romney is the bigger threat to my personal freedom.

Ron Paul broke with the Republicans on both of these issues. He actually believes in personal freedom and doesn't just use it as a brand in a corporate election campaign.

Anyways, I don't want to be tarred and feathered again so I will stop replying.




furytrader View Post
Syxforex, as a self-proclaimed libertarian, if you believe that Mitt Romney is more of a threat to personal liberty and economic freedom than Barack Obama, I think you need to stop and reconsider your logic.


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 Daytrader999 
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bnichols View Post
Interesting debate but a couple of things I learned from OT sections of other forums to which I subscribe (for motorcycle and firearms enthusiasts, respectively), which are not as well moderated as futures.io (formerly BMT) are first, not to take too seriously opinions about politics or religion posted on the Interwebz; and second, not to participate in them

Very well said, I subscribe to that and I never participate in those themes as well since they too often end up in 'verbal wars'.

 
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 kbit 
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bnichols View Post
Interesting debate but a couple of things I learned from OT sections of other forums to which I subscribe (for motorcycle and firearms enthusiasts, respectively), which are not as well moderated as futures.io (formerly BMT) are first, not to take too seriously opinions about politics or religion posted on the Interwebz; and second, not to participate in them

I like the back and forth, yeah sometimes people (me included) can get wound up but that's ok as long as they remain respectful.

I believe it's a good thing to get exposed to different viewpoints and so forth and have an open mind and on threads such as this we are exposed to those differences and keeps us in check so to speak or maybe reinforce our beliefs or positions or maybe we actually learn something.

Sometimes when we are so immersed into one particular ideology we can loose balance and have skewed judgement, so I welcome the debate and variance of opinion.

Just saying.....

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 syxforex 
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Same here kbit. As I've previously stated I don't really think it matter who wins, though I do like debating the issues. Can't wait for the main event...

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 kbit 
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syxforex View Post
The two biggest threats to my personal liberty at the moment are Monsanto seeds and the war on drugs.

Romney is backed by Monsanto. He's been a key builder of the Monsanto business and he wants to push for their perceived rights to own the world's food supply. No person and no corporation has this right, in my opinion.

Romney and the Republicans support an expanded war on drugs where Obama is friendlier to the States that want to legalize pot and end the war.

Both of these issues affect me personally, from where I sit. Both work against my personal freedoms as a human being on mother earth. So at the moment, for me, Romney is the bigger threat to my personal freedom.

Ron Paul broke with the Republicans on both of these issues. He actually believes in personal freedom and doesn't just use it as a brand in a corporate election campaign.

Anyways, I don't want to be tarred and feathered again so I will stop replying.

I'm all with you on the Monsanto thing...the pot issue as well but looking at the big picture in my view there is NO question that Romney is better in terms of personal freedoms and liberty than Obama (you need only to look at Obamacare alone and see the camels nose under the tent)

In the limited context in which you are viewing Romney I see your point but I would ask you to step back and look at the larger picture.

EDIT: I think as Monsanto gets exposed as the evil scumbags they are, they will be dealt with regardless if Romney is on their side.

 
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 syxforex 
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I prefer Obama Care to Romney's laisez faire/too big to fail approach to the financial sector. I find the latter a far more risky and costly policy. They are both social programs. I don't understand why the right turn a blind eye to their own giant evil socialist schemes. Paulson and Bush represent the biggest socialist powers we've seen in the history of modern democratic nations. I wish people would stop pretending it didn't happen and that everything should carry on as business as usual.

Just for the record. I've already been labelled a communist, a socialist, a Canadian, (proudly), etc. Our health care program is the only socialist program we have. Our government is a lot smaller here than it is there. We don't have such incredibly generous welfare programs. The article I posted earlier was just pointing to the difficulty in making cuts and how everybody had to come together to get it done. Not sure why it was taken as vitriol.

My main concern in all of this is the stability and soundness of the free markets where I make my living. My greatest fear is another orgyastic financial crash orchestrated by the too big to fail run amok. I've already lived through it once, and now I have to relive it through the insults of white shoes types who think the world is better for it. This is my number one biggest issue in this election. Romney is first and foremost a wall street banker and he is just way too cosy with that crowd for my liking.

The war on drugs agenda is secondary. The fact that he is against personal freedom and choice when it comes to pot tells me that ideologically he would be an authoritarian type of leader like W Bush, one who thinks he is bigger than the rest and can have his way, with our without Congress.

The last straw for me is the Monsanto connection. As a key builder of Monsanto's business, having one of their people running his election campaign, and being heavily supported by the Monsanto Lobby group, all smells of a conspiracy against my personal freedom far greater than the cost of giving basic healthcare to the needy. Romney is not the person who is going to give a care about what Monsanto does to the planet's food genome. I thought this was an issue for you to?

I don't know about that Camel's nose. It is pretty tough to cut things once they are entrenched. It seems ObamaCare might have to go, but only if the fed and too big to fail get their life line cut first, and Romney is not going to do that.



kbit View Post
I'm all with you on the Monsanto thing...the pot issue as well but looking at the big picture in my view there is NO question that Romney is better in terms of personal freedoms and liberty than Obama (you need only to look at Obamacare alone and see the camels nose under the tent)

In the limited context in which you are viewing Romney I see your point but I would ask you to step back and look at the larger picture.


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 kbit 
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syxforex View Post
I prefer Obama Care to Romney's laisez faire/too big to fail approach to the financial sector. I find the latter a far more risky and costly policy. They are both social programs. I don't understand why the right turn a blind eye to their own giant evil socialist schemes. Paulson and Bush represent the biggest socialist powers we've seen in the history of modern democratic nations. I wish people would stop pretending it didn't happen and that everything should carry on as business as usual.

Just for the record. I've already been labelled a communist, a socialist, a Canadian, (proudly), etc. Our health care program is the only socialist program we have. Our government is a lot smaller here than it is there. We don't have such incredibly generous welfare programs. The article I posted earlier was just pointing to the difficulty in making cuts and how everybody had to come together to get it done. Not sure why it was taken as vitriol.

My main concern in all of this is the stability and soundness of the free markets where I make my living. My greatest fear is another orgyastic financial crash orchestrated by the too big to fail run amok. I've already lived through it once, and now I have to relive it through the insults of white shoes types who think the world is better for it. This is my number one biggest issue in this election. Romney is first and foremost a wall street banker and he is just way too cosy with that crowd for my liking.

The war on drugs agenda is secondary. The fact that he is against personal freedom and choice when it comes to pot tells me that ideologically he would be an authoritarian type of leader like W Bush, one who thinks he is bigger than the rest and can have his way, with our without Congress.

The last straw for me is the Monsanto connection. As a key builder of Monsanto's business, having one of their people running his election campaign, and being heavily supported by the Monsanto Lobby group, all smells of a conspiracy against my personal freedom far greater than the cost of giving basic healthcare to the needy. Romney is not the person who is going to give a care about what Monsanto does to the planet's food genome. I thought this was an issue for you to?

I don't know about that Camel's nose. It is pretty tough to cut things once they are entrenched. It seems ObamaCare might have to go, but only if the fed and too big to fail get their life line cut first, and Romney is not going to do that.

From what I've seen you post I think you are neither a commy or a socialist, I agree with you totally on the whole corporate welfare stuff and cronyism in general.

The Monsanto thing is an issue to me as well but I think now that the word is getting out on them I think they will be dealt with. When enough people stand up something will happen....Aside from that, Obama is doing nothing to deal with Monsanto and I suspect won't unless like I said there is an uproar or something.

 
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 syxforex 
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We need an uproar alright. Monsanto's Roundup Ready seeds are taking over every major crop. People are now harboring bacterium based roundup factories in their guts. This is insanity. I just can't believe this is happening to our planet. When you say Obama won't do anything about it why is that? What can a president do to that end? Is that something that Congress needs to address? Who control's Congress now? How powerful is Monsanto? Do you think they can be stopped and an immediate ban on Monsantan's Roundup Ready Seeds?

Everybody needs to see this video about Monsanto Roundup Ready Seeds. Bain capital helped build this company. It's one of Romney's major lobby group supporters.




kbit View Post
From what I've seen you post I think you are neither a commy or a socialist, I agree with you totally on the whole corporate welfare stuff and cronyism in general.

The Monsanto thing is an issue to me as well but I think now that the word is getting out on them I think they will be dealt with. When enough people stand up something will happen....Aside from that, Obama is doing nothing to deal with Monsanto and I suspect won't unless like I said there is an uproar or something.


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  #378 (permalink)
 bnichols 
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Despite my last remark (about not participating), and despite being Canadian, based on my experience as CTO of a Delaware registered / Florida headquartered e-commerce company (now ex-CTO, after the company's IPO faltered on the Frankfurt exchange when European banks stopped talking to US banks in 2008), and before that as a VP R&D of a tech company whose head office vacillated between Colorado and Australia and just now after a glass or 2 of wine, IMO what is now practiced in the US is not capitalism, but a consequence of rather too much central planning, both main parties to the election merely playing the cards as they're dealt from a rigged deck.

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 kbit 
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syxforex View Post
We need an uproar alright. Monsanto's Roundup Ready seeds are taking over every major crop. People are now harboring bacterium based roundup factories in their guts. This is insanity. I just can't believe this is happening to our planet. When you say Obama won't do anything about it why is that? What can a president do to that end? Is that something that Congress needs to address? Who control's Congress now? How powerful is Monsanto? Do you think they can be stopped and an immediate ban on Monsantan's Roundup Ready Seeds?

Everybody needs to see this video about Monsanto Roundup Ready Seeds. Bain capital helped build this company. It's one of Romney's major lobby group supporters.


I don't think it matters who is running things....we just need to keep spreading the word until these guys realize if they want to be reelected they must address this issue...namely ban this crap.

That bee thing is very troublesome as well and needs to be addressed asap

 
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 syxforex 
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Monsanto now doing their devil's work on the bees. I got that from the Ron Paul blog site. It's so f'd I want to puke.


kbit View Post
I don't think it matters who is running things....we just need to keep spreading the word until these guys realize if they want to be reelected they must address this issue...namely ban this crap.

That bee thing is very troublesome as well and needs to be addressed asap


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 syxforex 
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Mitt Romney is supposed to be a Christian. How could he have had a hand in this, how can he continue to take their money and let his campaign be advised by this group?

"Then the LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to Cultivate it and Guard it" - Genesis 2:15


syxforex View Post
Monsanto now doing their devil's work on the bees. I got that from the Ron Paul blog site. It's so f'd I want to puke.


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 kbit 
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syxforex View Post
Mitt Romney is supposed to be a Christian. How could he have had a hand in this, how can he continue to take their money and let his campaign be advised by this group?

"Then the LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to Cultivate it and Guard it" - Genesis 2:15

He wouldn't be the first to sell his soul in the quest for power.....

 
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 syxforex 
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KBIT. See this video at 8:40 to see the Republican stance on Monsanto's GMO crops.


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 futuretrader 
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kbit View Post
I don't think it matters who is running things....we just need to keep spreading the word until these guys realize if they want to be reelected they must address this issue...namely ban this crap.

That bee thing is very troublesome as well and needs to be addressed asap

Not that any of them are caped crusaders - who would never get elected - but it does matter who is running things. Some politicians are much more heavily involved with Monsanto et. al. than others. And who is president makes an immediate difference in all kinds of other policies that have major effects on people's lives.

That article the video refers to really is an important piece of research. They suggest this may have an effect not merely on individuals, but on the genetics of the species.

From the conclusion:

With their robust stability and highly conserved sequences, secretory miRNAs can act not only in a cross-species, but also a cross-kingdom fashion. In this sense, miRNAs may represent a novel class of universal modulators that play an important role in mediating animal-plant interactions at the molecular level. Like vitamins, minerals and other essential nutrients derived from food sources, plant miRNAs may serve as a novel functional component of food and make a critical contribution to maintaining and shaping animal body structure and function. Extending from this concept, the intake of certain plant miRNAs generation after generation through a particular food source may leave an imprint on the genetic map of the human race. In conclusion, the discovery of plant miRNAs and their roles in the biology of mammalian cells and animal organs represents the first evidence of cross-kingdom transfer of functionally active miRNAs and opens a new avenue to explore miRNA-mediated animal-plant interactions.

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 syxforex 
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Well Romney certainly isn't going to go to bat against Monsanto's Genetic Agriculture business. He was instrumental in building it. For profits, this man would sacrifice God's earth.

"Mitt Romney, Monsanto Man"

Though Mitt Romney has been campaigning for president since 2006, it’s alarming how little is known about critical chapters of his business biography. Nothing spells that out more clearly than his ties to Monsanto—the current target of a mid-September Occupy nationwide action—whose dark history features scandals involving PCBs, Agent Orange, bovine growth hormone, NutraSweet, IUD, genetically modified (GM) seed and herbicides, reaching back to the 1970s and ’80s. That’s when Monsanto was the largest consulting client of Romney’s employer, Bain & Company, and when Romney helped move Monsanto from chemical colossus to genetic giant, trading one set of environmental controversies for another.



Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan ordering food in Johnson Creek, Wisconsin. (Photo: Eric Thayer / The New York Times)

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 Jedi 
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syxforex View Post
We need an uproar alright. Monsanto's Roundup Ready seeds are taking over every major crop. People are now harboring bacterium based roundup factories in their guts. This is insanity. I just can't believe this is happening to our planet. When you say Obama won't do anything about it why is that? What can a president do to that end? Is that something that Congress needs to address? Who control's Congress now? How powerful is Monsanto? Do you think they can be stopped and an immediate ban on Monsantan's Roundup Ready Seeds?

Everybody needs to see this video about Monsanto Roundup Ready Seeds. Bain capital helped build this company. It's one of Romney's major lobby group supporters.


That's crazy.. corn is everywhere and they feed it to everything and I have kids.. Need to make a list of acceptable foods for my grocery lists.. most meats and vegetables now? great...

How do I find out more about avoiding these types of foods?

"What is bent cannot be straightened
What is broken cannot possibly be counted"

BUT REMEMBER - Politics is a game of compromise and not a game of perfection... prioritizing values and picking your battles along with compromise is the reality of the situation if you want to be a participant/politician.. We all have our different opinions about where the priority should be and which battles to pick and which compromises are acceptable or most reasonable.. However, this certainly takes Romney down a notch in my book since he's webbed into that scenario.. However, every politician is webbed in somewhere, even Obama, its unavoidable..

Here's a video of Romney in his younger days letting loose.. He said one day, I will make millions and become president..


 
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 Cloudy 
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Big Mike View Post
Go back and look at the last 20 years from non-partisan sources, and look at the correlation between corporate profits and the average pay of the middle class vs the wealth of the uber-rich.

How could anyone argue against it?

It didn't use to be this way. It's just gotten more and more worse and pronounced in the last 20 years because more and more laws have been passed to corrupt our politicians into doing exactly what the corporations want. We The People are simply no longer represented.

All it takes is a few billion dollars of ads to convince people of anything you want to convince them of. They love sound bites, and certainly can't be bothered to conduct their own research, since American Idol is coming on in a few minutes. So they just believe whatever you put in front of them.

Whoever has the most money and tells the most lies, wins.

Mike

Just another off the wall idea that popped in my head. We get all these election and issue ads at primetime and highly watched weekend hours funded by millions of dollars of both parties. When is there ever going to be a white knight billionaire or corporation worth billions who are going to fund education ads outside of election season to inform the millions of passive viewers the problems that are destroying the country i.e. QE unlimited, how the banks and corporations are controlling the government etc. And suggest means to change the country's course such as massive petition and referendum drives. To help the millions of people be aware of the urgency of the problems instead of aware of the details of American idol ,MTV, and other fantasy passive programming. The people out of work may not have access to a computer , but probably most can still watch basic tv. Notice how they took off the old analog TV waves about 7 years ago. So poor households that still had uhf/vhf tv could only try to get a digital reception antenna which is far poorer reception in most places than the old system and limited mostly to the major networks. Then you have the radio programs which seem to be controlled by the right's propaganda machines i.e. Limbaugh and Hannity still distracting from the real problems or marginalizing them and blaming the other side. I guess all the rich billionaires are all hampered and held hostage by the elite cabal with death threats or dire consequences even if they wanted to speak out. But instead billionaires like that crazy plus-sized Australian lady gets the attention for her corporate slaving remarks. What happened to the Ross Perot independent movement, the last billionaire to warn of the true economic dangers and the increasing debt crisis. Is it ever coming back? Or was it just an interference play as many have speculated to hand the election to Clinton.

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 kbit 
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‘REPUBLICAN’ DEER REPEATEDLY DESTROYS TEXAS COUPLE’S FRONT YARD OBAMA SIGN

Tom and Beth Priem Snap Photo of ‘Republican’ Deer Destroying Their Obama Sign | Video | TheBlaze.com

 
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  #389 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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mmmm, steaks..


kbit View Post
‘REPUBLICAN’ DEER REPEATEDLY DESTROYS TEXAS COUPLE’S FRONT YARD OBAMA SIGN

Tom and Beth Priem Snap Photo of ‘Republican’ Deer Destroying Their Obama Sign | Video | TheBlaze.com


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 syxforex 
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That deer needs some Monsanto ready vegetables.. haha


kbit View Post
‘REPUBLICAN’ DEER REPEATEDLY DESTROYS TEXAS COUPLE’S FRONT YARD OBAMA SIGN

Tom and Beth Priem Snap Photo of ‘Republican’ Deer Destroying Their Obama Sign | Video | TheBlaze.com


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 kbit 
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 syxforex 
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I bet Stern would have done better on the Republican ticket than Romney. It sounds like that selection of sheep he found have the same basic aversion to a tough talking silver spooner as so many proletarians do, so soon after the Bush bailout. Howard, Howard, Howard...

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 syxforex 
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Big Mike, not sure if I'm allowed to post any news clips or just not so many... This one is a Reuters poll so I thought it might be ok...

Picking Ryan has done little to win voters for Romney

(Reuters) - Mitt Romney's selection of Paul Ryan as his running mate has done little to attract voters to the Republican ticket and more think he is not qualified to be president than believe he is ready for the White House, a Reuters/Ipsos poll said on Monday.

Picking Ryan has done little to win voters for Romney | Reuters

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 syxforex 
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It's not what he meant, obviously, but he did say it... doh

Ryan says a vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Obama

Ryan says a vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Obama — RT

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  #395 (permalink)
 kbit 
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 Zondor 
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Two opinion pieces that might get you thinking...

Keyes to the Republic Vol. 1 President Obama and Mitt Romney - YouTube


Why Barack Obama is the More Effective Evil | Black Agenda Report

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 syxforex 
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thanks Zondor,

In the first video, what policies is the guy referring to that Obama is failing to get that Romney would get through.




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 kbit 
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Are you a "Keyester" Zondor ? ....I voted for him when he ran in Illinois

 
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 syxforex 
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Damn, i better stop tweetin'...

"If you are going to fight for anything, you’ve got to fight for the right to fight. That means fighting for the rule of law. So, if you don’t plan to go underground or into exile anytime soon, you must fight the president who claims the right to imprison or kill any person, of any nationality, any place on Earth, for reasons known only to him. The man who excelled George Bush by shepherding preventive detention through Congress – Barack Obama, the More Effective Evil."





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 syxforex 
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Why can't Gary Johnson be President? Great tax policy, fair and free, what's wrong with that. Blind Trusts aren't people.

I didn't even know he was running....

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