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2012 Election


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2012 Election

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  #201 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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You may call the man on the street greedy and helpless and in search of his next bowl of bailout soup and a ten thousand dolllar lexus, if it makes you feel better, keep feeding yourself the government issued caviar..... we all know which way the welfare really flows in this day and age, and some of us are saying enough is enough...


Silver Dragon View Post
"You dont care about others!"I was expecting this answer. I spend at least 3 months a year volunteering in soup kitchens and helping under privileged kids get out slums and make something of themselves. I teach them to rely on themselves and not the government or others. I teach them to make their own opportunities in life. If this makes me evil and uncaring then so be it. Just curious how much time do you spend helping others?

It is true, at the end of the day I do put family and myself first. That is why I will succeed.


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  #202 (permalink)
 Silver Dragon 
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syxforex View Post
You may call the man on the street greedy and helpless and in search of his next bowl of bailout soup and a ten thousand dolllar lexus, if it makes you feel better, keep feeding yourself the government issued caviar..... we all know which way the welfare really flows in this day and age, and some of us are saying enough is enough...

LOL

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  #203 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
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syxforex View Post
People aren't complaining that you have more money and they have less money. They are complaining about opportunities afforded them. The biggest corporations get to where they are through the halls of congress, they get to where they are on the backs of the people and the power those people represent. When they turn around and stick a knife in those people and gut them of opportunity, unrest is to be expected.

There are much less opportunities afforded to citizens of countries that are socialist or socialist leaning than in the United States. Plenty of opportunity to do very well in this country. If you are citizen of the United States you have it pretty good. Government trying to level the playing field by redistributing wealth will lead to fewer opportunities for all. Wonder how that is working for Hugo Chavez and Venezuela. Gets tiresome people running around with smartphones and ipads while calling all these corporations "evil". Corporations stated goal is to make a profit. What do shareholders want? For them to make a profit. If they profit many benefit including employees all the way down the food chain. I am sure some corporations are evil. But by and large most do much more good than government does for society.

Reality is Obama is not just trying to repatriate the wealth of the big multi nationals. He is also going after small business owner and if has his way all will suffer including the poor. I have a small business and I pay a ridiculous amount of taxes right now. If the government takes more what do you think happens. It will put many small business owners out of business. But before that happens they first will start to fire people. Lets be honest I hire people to do certain things that I could do myself. Before I lower my standard of living someone else may lose their job and I will do the work myself. Multiply this thousands of times over and what happens. Less jobs. Do you really think the money the government took from me will create jobs or will it be wasted?

Enough of my Diatribe for the day.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #204 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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What is socialist? There are socialists on both sides of the political spectrum. On the far left you have the commies, on the far right you the fascists and nazis. Both are socialist. It doesn't matter if your government bureaucracy is designed to feed the working class or the ruling class, it's socialism. Why is it that republicans call everybody who is looking out for the rights of the common man labeled a socialist? It's total hypocrisy.

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  #205 (permalink)
 Silver Dragon 
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syxforex View Post
What is socialist? There are socialists on both sides of the political spectrum. On the far left you have the commies, on the far right you the fascists and nazis. Both are socialist. It doesn't matter if your government bureaucracy is designed to feed the working class or the ruling class, it's socialism. Why is it that republicans call everybody who is looking out for the rights of the common man labeled a socialist? It's total hypocrisy.

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. These are the "inalienable rights" with which all human beings are endowed by their Creator and for the protection of which they institute governments. When you trample on these rights in the name of" helping others and making it fair and level playing field" you stop being government of the people, for the people and start becoming a people controlled by the government for the government. This is socialism. Freedom and liberty will be gone and happiness will be the stuff of dreams.

Is this what you want?

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  #206 (permalink)
 kbit 
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syxforex View Post
What is socialist? There are socialists on both sides of the political spectrum. On the far left you have the commies, on the far right you the fascists and nazis. Both are socialist. It doesn't matter if your government bureaucracy is designed to feed the working class or the ruling class, it's socialism. Why is it that republicans call everybody who is looking out for the rights of the common man labeled a socialist? It's total hypocrisy.

Just been reading your last few posts and think maybe what you really ought to focus on is the rampant cronyism that happens on both sides of the aisle. I think that is a large part of the problem with our system...it's been totally corrupted

 
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  #207 (permalink)
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Totally agree


kbit View Post
Just been reading your last few posts and think maybe what you really ought to focus on is the rampant cronyism that happens on both sides of the aisle. I think that is a large part of the problem with our system...it's been totally corrupted


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  #208 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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Marc to Market: Great Graphic: Taxes and Growth



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  #209 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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  #210 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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<script src="http://player.ooyala.com/player.js?embedCode=plY3V2NTpGgQznYOQM2cOiJddyjuLtaG&deepLinkEmbedCode=plY3V2NTpGgQznYOQM2cOiJddyjuLtaG"></script>

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  #211 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
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Here is a question

Does anyone really believe by taxing more those who make over 250k all the way to the super rich will really create jobs and decrease our national debt as a country in a way that takes us off a crash course?

The US government does not have a revenue problem it has a spending problem. Taxing those who make more will only marginally reduce the debt and will hurt small businesses who will in turn reduce hiring.. So that leaves two solution cut spending until it hurts or raise taxes on the entire middle class. Yes, they ultimately want your money middle class you are the honey pot of big government. Don't believe the rhetoric you are about to suffer. Problem is your sacrifice will not matter unless spending is cut to the bone.

One of the main reasons the economy is in this mess. Is the socialist thinking that everyone should own a house no matter how bad credit. Guess who implemented that? Clinton Administration.

Obama comes along and passes passes next big socialist program Obamacare by shoving it down everyone's throat as majority did not want it. The damage this does the United States may not be seen until years down the road but it will come. I am sure Bush will most likely be blamed for that as well.

There is a point and maybe we have already passed it where we can't recover. My hope is we can but turning America into a socialist government is sure fire way to destroy many of things that have made us the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. History is littered with nations who were once great and are now marginal or gone.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #212 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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liquidcci, if you were running on a spending cuts program, of the established programs, what would be your top three cuts?

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  #213 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
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Maybe all the traders who make the most should be required to give 50% or more of profits to traders who don't profit. I mean come on it is not fair other traders struggle. The profitable ones should do their fair share and help the other traders. Would this not be a trading Utopia where it is no longer the top 5% who prosper while the other 95% lose? Would this not mean that all could be prosperous? It is just not fair because these other traders did not have the same chance that the top traders got.


I put Obama think in trader terms to show the absurdity of socialistic thinking.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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  #214 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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It doesn't work that way in right wing socialism. The traders who make the most receive trillions in taxes from the 95%. We are on planet fact and reality here...

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  #215 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
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syxforex View Post
liquidcci, if you were running on a spending cuts program, of the established programs, what would be your top three cuts?

@syxforex that is a big question but the first thing I would do is kill the bureaucratic machine and cut the insane waste, giant pensions, salaries that are higher than the private sector but do less.

I worked in the aerospace and defense industry at one time and the waste phenomenal. Yes the government paying $1000 for a hammer and a toilet seat is true. Heck you might could get all the cuts you need just be reducing waste and redundancy.

I do think both sides of the political isle are going to have to get honest and both cut things they defend.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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  #216 (permalink)
 liquidcci 
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syxforex View Post
It doesn't work that way in right wing socialism. The traders who make the most receive trillions in taxes from the 95%. We are on planet fact and reality here...

sysforex I am not just talking about the super rich and the big banking houses and neither is Obama. The upper middle is being targeted thus my comparison.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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  #217 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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Totally here ya, government traders were spending a lot more than that on their bathrooms though... check out the details of Merrill's CEO Thains getup... For Merrill Lynch CEO John Thain, an outrageously expensive trash can - which was part of a $1 million office decorating spree - got him canned by his new bosses at Bank of America.

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  #218 (permalink)
 Silver Dragon 
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syxforex View Post
It doesn't work that way in right wing socialism. The traders who make the most receive trillions in taxes from the 95%. We are on planet fact and reality here...


Not really. The top 10% pay over 60% of the taxes. The bottom 50% pays 4% of the taxes and the middle class 36% of the taxes. As the marginal tax rate was decreased over the years the amount of taxes paid by the top 10% went up and the burden on the middle and lower class went down. As I remember you want the rich to pay more. As a result of this action the amount of taxes paid by the rich will go down and the middle and lower class will pay more. Again is this what you want??


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  #219 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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Corporations are people.


Silver Dragon View Post
Not really. The top 10% pay over 60% of the taxes. The bottom 50% pays 4% of the taxes and the middle class 36% of the taxes. As the marginal tax rate was decreased over the years the amount of taxes paid by the top 10% went up and the burden on the middle and lower class went down. As I remember you want the rich to pay more. As a result of this action the amount of taxes paid by the rich will go down and the middle and lower class will pay more. Again is this what you want??



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  #220 (permalink)
 Silver Dragon 
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syxforex View Post
Corporations are people.

Apparently you cant argue with the numbers.

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  #221 (permalink)
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I've never said anything about who should pay what. I have no stance, simply presenting facts and trying to keep things honest. The bottom line is the government is deep in debt and the people are on the hook for it.. It would seem everybody is going to have to chip in...

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 kbit 
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A week after small businesses warned that Obamacare taxes will eat up to half of their profits, a new government report reveals that simply complying with the new tax rules in the health care act will cost American families and businesses nearly 80 million hours--essentially a whole new tax.

Based on Internal Revenue Service figures, the House Committee on Ways and Means has compiled an estimate of the total amount of hours it will take to comply with the tax rules. The bottom line: 79,229,503 hours, most of which will fall on small businesses.

For fun, the committee gave a comparative example.

"So, what can be done in 79,229,503 hours? The Empire State building, which took 7 million man-hours to build, could be constructed 11 times. The Curiosity Lander could travel from Earth to Mars 13,048 times. Halley's comet, seen from Earth once every 76 years, could be spotted 119 times."

The committee said that Obamacare has resulted in thousands of pages in IRS and Treasury rules including 17 regulations, 5 revenue procedures, 2 revenue rulings, and 14 Treasury decisions.

"Given the enormous impact the regulations will have on job creators, it is no wonder that a recent survey found that over 70 percent of small businesses cite the health care law as a major obstacle to job creation," said the panel headed by Rep. David Camp.

80 million hours needed to tackle Obamacare tax rules | WashingtonExaminer.com

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  #223 (permalink)
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I really don't think taxing the soup kitchen is going to be of any help paying down the debt.


Silver Dragon View Post
Apparently you cant argue with the numbers.


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  #224 (permalink)
 MWinfrey 
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kbit View Post
A week after small businesses warned that Obamacare taxes will eat up to half of their profits, a new government report reveals that simply complying with the new tax rules in the health care act will cost American families and businesses nearly 80 million hours--essentially a whole new tax.

Based on Internal Revenue Service figures, the House Committee on Ways and Means has compiled an estimate of the total amount of hours it will take to comply with the tax rules. The bottom line: 79,229,503 hours, most of which will fall on small businesses.

For fun, the committee gave a comparative example.

"So, what can be done in 79,229,503 hours? The Empire State building, which took 7 million man-hours to build, could be constructed 11 times. The Curiosity Lander could travel from Earth to Mars 13,048 times. Halley's comet, seen from Earth once every 76 years, could be spotted 119 times."

The committee said that Obamacare has resulted in thousands of pages in IRS and Treasury rules including 17 regulations, 5 revenue procedures, 2 revenue rulings, and 14 Treasury decisions.

"Given the enormous impact the regulations will have on job creators, it is no wonder that a recent survey found that over 70 percent of small businesses cite the health care law as a major obstacle to job creation," said the panel headed by Rep. David Camp.

80 million hours needed to tackle Obamacare tax rules | WashingtonExaminer.com

Maybe the people who lose their jobs with small businesses because of ObamaCare can go to work for the government. Certainly the increase in government workload will require the creation of "new jobs".

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 Silver Dragon 
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syxforex View Post
I've never said anything about who should pay what. I have no stance, simply presenting facts and trying to keep things honest. The bottom line is the government is deep in debt and the people are on the hook for it.. It would seem everybody is going to have to chip in...


Paying more taxes is not the answer. The government needs to stop spending money and quit expanding. Have you ever been on a budget due to a crisis? I have. The first things to go are the cable and phone. Then the Friday nights out. Eating out goes away. then its PB&J for breakfast lunch and dinner. But in government they do the opposite; They try to spend their way out of debt. So how is that working for us? we have nearly doubled our debt in 4 years. Spending money to get out of debt does not work for the people and it sure in the hell is not working for the government. Why is such a difficult concept to understand.

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  #226 (permalink)
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You really don't get the reality of the situation for the poor and those falling out of the middle class. There is nothing to cut.


Silver Dragon View Post
Paying more taxes is not the answer. The government needs to stop spending money and quit expanding. Have you ever been on a budget due to a crisis? I have. The first things to go are the cable and phone. Then the Friday nights out. Eating out goes away. then its PB&J for breakfast lunch and dinner. But in government they do the opposite; They try to spend their way out of debt. So how is that working for us? we have nearly doubled our debt in 4 years. Spending money to get out of debt does not work for the people and it sure in the hell is not working for the government. Why is such a difficult concept to understand.


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 kbit 
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(Limbaughs take on this)


RUSH: I tell you, I really hope that Mother Jones pulls down that Romney video pretty fast. Well, what he said about the Palestinians not wanting peace, that's got the media as riled up as anything. The Palestinians are sacred to some people in our news media and the rest of the Democrat Party. Almost as sacred as Mohammed is the to the Islamists. And if they don't pull that video down, our media might start rioting over what Romney said.

Okay, let's just dive in here. Romney's at a fundraiser, he's in Boca Raton. I think I've mentioned this to you, folks, a couple of times. I have attended such fundraisers. I was not at this one, but I have been at candidate fundraisers, and I've had meetings with presidential candidates. And without exception, this is common. Republican presidential candidates go full metal conservatism when they're talking to donors. When I saw the Romney video, the first thing I thought, "All right, we have a golden opportunity."



I don't care how this is being cast by the media. That's predictable. What are we doing here? What is really happening? This election is about what? It's about stopping Barack Obama. That's what this election's about. And we are hoping that a majority of people agree with us, that Barack Obama needs to be stopped. So here's Romney at the Boca Raton fundraiser, and he happens to be telling these people a certain level of truth, a certain level of accuracy. I think there's a bunch of people in that 47% that don't want to be there. I think there's a lot of that 47%, they're there because of Obama. This is such a golden opportunity.

This could be the opportunity for Romney and for that campaign to finally take the gloves off and take the fear off and just start explaining conservatism. Start explaining liberty to people and what it means, and explain that they don't have to be in that 47%. There's no reason for them, for everybody to have essentially given up on their future in this country. There's no reason for it. This is, to me, such an opportunity to espouse conservatism and to explain to people. Now that people are focused on this, now that people are paying attention to it, this is a golden opportunity, and we know Romney's got it in him because of what he said to these people.

I've been sworn to secrecy. Folks, this is common. If you knew what Republican moderate presidential candidates said to their donors, you'd be a little ticked off because you'd wonder why they don't speak that way in public. They are as conservative as you and I are. I've spoken to them privately. The candidates that I see on the campaign trail versus the ones that tell me what they really think are two different people. There is a fear of being conservative because of what has happened to Romney with this. They've been sitting on this video for a while. This goes back to, what, May, or what have you. But the objective here hasn't changed. It's been this way since maybe a couple of days after Obama was inaugurated.

We want to stop Obama. We have got to get Obama and the Democrats out of power if this country's future is to have any semblance of its past. We don't want this country to be finished, as founded. We don't want this country to be over. We don't want 47% of the country thinking that there's no hope for them. We don't want 47% of the country giving up. And like I say, I don't think all 47% are made up of people who are dependent, but I know what Romney was trying to say to these people. He was basically telling these people that we have reached a crossroads in this country. You and I talk about it all the time.



We ask ourselves, "Okay, have we reached the tipping point?" Just like de Tocqueville said, have we reached the point where more people are comfortable being cared for and taken care of than they are providing for themselves? And we've all feared that this election or thought this election was going to give us the answer to that question. That's been the fear that we've all had. Where are we? The questions being asked on the conservative blogs when somebody says, "How come Romney's not 15 points ahead?" that's what they mean. What they really mean is, have we lost the country? Have we lost the culture? Have we lost the American work ethic? Have we lost American optimism? Have we lost the thing that was talked about all over the Republican convention?

What was the theme of that convention? Every Speaker got up there and talked about how their parents had nothing, came from nothing, and America gave the speakers the opportunity to be the best they could be, using whatever talents and ambition that they had. This is a gold mine of opportunity that Romney has here. The real question is: Does he have anybody on his staff to tell him? Does he have anybody -- any consultants -- who will, or are they still gonna be wallowing in fear over this?

'Cause it's out there, and it's gonna be dealt with, and it may as well be seized as an opportunity. Whatever happened to the drive to improve ourselves? Whatever happened to the drive to be better today than yesterday? Whatever happened to the drive to pursue excellence? Whatever happened to all that? I think it's still there. That's what EIB is all about. What EIB is all about is... You people don't know. I am so desirous of this: I wish everybody in this country could do well.

I want everybody to experience the abundance and the greatness of this country. I want everybody to be told how to do it, not told that it can't be done, which is what Obama does. If anybody ought to be under the microscope, it's Obama. Obama's tamping down expectations. Obama's ratcheting up fear. Obama's the guy whose foreign policy is falling apart. Obama's the guy who's watching our economy disintegrate. Obama's the guy whose policies are making it tougher and tougher and tougher for excellence to matter in one's pursuit of life.



Mitt Romney hasn't done anything to anybody.

I happen to know that Romney wants for this country the same thing I want. When he talks to his donors about these 47% that are locked into Obama, he does it with disappointment, sadness, and maybe a little disgust. Where everybody analyzing this is wrong is he would love to be able to reach them. He has not written them off. He's telling his donors various things, but I do not believe he's written them off.

I've spoken to Mitt Romney a number of times, and I don't believe he's written them off, despite how it sounds. But if he has, it's time to forget that. If he has written 'em off, this is an opportunity to educate 'em. This is an opportunity to inspire 'em. This is an opportunity to tell them, if he's Mitt Romney, what he wants for them. This is it. It's sitting there on a silver platter. It is right there. It's ready for the taking.

But he's gotta be able to do it.

He's gotta have consultants who are fearless and will let him do it. These consultants! These people put shackles on these guys and try to get 'em to make sure they don't make a mistake when they go out and speak, and look what happens. Essentially, if you go back, Romney has been saying this in different ways throughout the campaign. You know, Obama is the guy who's written off voters. We've got the column. What was that guy's name? Edsall. November 2011.

He wrote a piece for the New York Times. The Obama campaign has written off "white, working-class voters." He's written 'em off. Now, there's no tape of Obama saying so. But there's a column of one of Obama's supporters saying that that's what the campaign's doing. And it's been buttressed a couple of other times, and it's clearly factually correct when you watch the Obama campaign. He's declared war on anybody making over $200,000 a year.

Obama's out attacking achievement. Obama's out attempting to stigmatize anybody that has succeeded and is calling them the enemy. Where's the outrage over that? We have all of what Romney said. I'm gonna play it so you can hear it. We've got it all. And, of course, I will be able to put it all in context and perspective for you with the correct reaction, and I'll share with you other reactions to it. Here's a piece in the Weekly Standard. A bunch of conservatives are dumping on Romney.

It's how he's blown it, how he shouldn'ta said it, how it's all wrong and da-da-da. So I'll tell you what they're saying, and you might think the same thing. We'll find out what you think, of course, at some point in the program when we go to phones. Again, the telephone number: 800-282-2882. But this whole objective... (interruption) Well, no, they're not saying the 47% don't exist. They do exist.

What they're trying to say is that Romney has written 'em off, that Romney looks at them with disdain. Romney looks at them as a bunch of lazy takers and there's no way to reach 'em, and that's who Obama wants. And he's telling his donors -- the spin is that he's telling his donors -- there's no way he can reach those people. "They're a bunch of slackers. There's no way I'm gonna be able to reach 'em; I'm not even gonna try. I'm going to go a different way."

They're trying to fill the narrative that Republicans don't care; that Republicans are cold-hearted, mean-spirited, extremist bastards that don't care about the poor. That's what they're trying to say that Romney's comments prove. That's why Romney has to get out there, take this by the horns, turn it into a positive, and go right for those people since they're now listening. Especially if they think they've been insulted, even better!

This is the time to go talk to 'em.


A Golden Opportunity for Mitt Romney - The Rush Limbaugh Show

 
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 Jedi 
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Not really. The top 10% pay over 60% of the taxes. The bottom 50% pays 4% of the taxes and the middle class 36% of the taxes. As the marginal tax rate was decreased over the years the amount of taxes paid by the top 10% went up and the burden on the middle and lower class went down. As I remember you want the rich to pay more. As a result of this action the amount of taxes paid by the rich will go down and the middle and lower class will pay more. Again is this what you want??


These % can also be due to the fact that the income disparity has grown.. part of the reason the rich are carrying a bigger burden is because there are many more rich and super rich today as compared to the past, hence they're paying more % of taxes as a whole..

Ideally, we cut gov waste and not tax but until then, taxes is just a fact of life.. Are we going to tax the rich or poor? what's better for the country, growing disparity or encouraging the rise of the middle class? Is life ever going to be fair or do we aim to be reasonable? Is putting more tax burden on the poor reasonable? Why do governments buy $1000 toilet seats? to grease the hands of some greedy merchant..

Many of the new money would never had even had a chance if it weren't for some government assistance that encouraged the rise of the middle class, and now they want to put the burden on the struggling? Did the Bush tax cuts for the rich help the economy with trickle down? That theory is weak.. Until the economy comes out of weak times, deficits will grow regardless of who pays the taxes..

Deficits always grow in lean times and gov spending always increases in lean times to stimulate the economy.. The expectation is always that they'll be paid down when the economy picks up.. That expectation has never changed in neither the local or federal gov..

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syxforex View Post
You really don't get the reality of the situation for the poor and those falling out of the middle class. There is nothing to cut.

Always with you it cannot be done. How do you make through the day?? There is always something to be cut. Start with healthcare system the government has up for themselves. Make them go on public healthcare better yet go on obama care. Cut entitlements each year by 10%. Move the highway construction from strictly union contracts to the private sector. Cut the amount of money the government can spend per year by 20%. Scrap the tax code and go with a flat tax; no need for the IRS.

I could go on and on. Make no mistake cuts are going to hurt. But it has to be done and there is plenty to cut.

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 kbit 
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“I don’t worry about our losing a republican government in the United States because I’m afraid of a foreign invasion. I don’t worry about it because of a coup by the military, as has happened in some other places. What I worry about is that when problems are not addressed people will not know who is responsible, and when the problems get bad enough — as they might do for example with another serious terrorist attack, as they might do with another financial meltdown — some one person will come forward and say: ‘Give me total power and I will solve this problem.’

That is how the Roman republic fel. Augustus became emperor not because he arrested the Roman senate. He became emperor because he promised that he would solve problems that were not being solved.”
.

.
A little off topic but.....

 
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 Jedi 
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Always with you it cannot be done.

The same can be said about "trying" to create a better world and level out the playing field..

The high taxes in Europe has never stopped people from getting rich but it has raised their overall standard of living as a whole.. When the economy is bad, nothing works even if you cut everything..

 
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 kbit 
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The same can be said about "trying" to create a better world and level out the playing field..

The high taxes in Europe has never stopped people from getting rich but it has raised their overall standard of living as a whole.. When the economy is bad, nothing works even if you cut everything..

How does taking more of my money away from me improve my standard of living ?

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Jedi View Post
The same can be said about "trying" to create a better world and level out the playing field..

The high taxes in Europe has never stopped people from getting rich but it has raised their overall standard of living as a whole.. When the economy is bad, nothing works even if you cut everything..

Why do you need a level playing field to succeed?

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 syxforex 
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Laffer Curve


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 kbit 
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It would be nice if the markets were more active so we wouldn't waste time bickering over this political crap..

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How does taking more of my money away from me improve my standard of living ?

That's what every European aristocrat and royalty prior to the French revolution used to say.. Was Europe better off then?

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 liquidcci 
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Jedi View Post
The same can be said about "trying" to create a better world and level out the playing field..

The high taxes in Europe has never stopped people from getting rich but it has raised their overall standard of living as a whole.. When the economy is bad, nothing works even if you cut everything..

In Greece sure it increased standard of living for a while. It was a false prosperity. But eventually with big government you pay the piper. It is a mentality that kills innovation, efficiency and slowly poisons peoples thinking. In Greece the poor are now poorer and what was the middle class is now poor. People dying on the streets because their government health care system is failing.

Show me one U.S. government program that is not rife with waste, inefficient, and overspends because when they need more money don't have to compete for it like private sector and just raise taxes. The government does very little dollar for dollar to help anyone. If someone barely surviving on welfare is helping someone lets all get on welfare. Would be better for that person to have a decent job which come when private sector succeeds not big government.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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Why do you need a level playing field to succeed?

Every country wants a mass middle class and not big disparities.. Its better for the country and much more reasonable for those that want to better themselves.. People struggle financially for all kinds of unfortunate reasons.. We want to aim to raise them up and not turn a blind eye.. All of us can be in that situation just as fast..

 
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Jedi View Post
Every country wants a mass middle class and not big disparities.. Its better for the country and much more reasonable for those that want to better themselves.. People struggle financially for all kinds of unfortunate reasons.. We want to aim to raise them up and not turn a blind eye.. All of us can be in that situation just as fast..

Here in lies the problem. The government can't raise the struggling up. Even if you believe wealth should be redistributed it is beyond me how anyone could believe the government can do it. All our entitlement programs government kangaroo accounting aside are bankrupt. The type of thinking coming out of the Obama administration will only serve to pull others down and will not raise up the struggling.

Our current path is not sustainable. Either spending must be cut or all of the middle class taxed. Tax the rich won't put a dent in it. Higher taxes for middle class will make the middle class smaller. So we better start cutting spending and yes that means some will suffer initially but many better off in long run. .

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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 syxforex 
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Milton Friedman, the grandmaster of free market economics and the writer of Reaganomics has a set of rules that must be in place in order for the free market to work. One set is based on openness and fairness. You don't play the superbowl on a hill for a reason, it's not fair game otherwise.


syxforex View Post
Economics wasn't your major was it?


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 syxforex 
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Nor can the government maintain the ruling class with entitlement programs that dwarf the social security blanket, not even comparable. QEfinity, what kind of wealth distributing entitlement is that. The bank bailout. What planet are you on. It's not even comparable...


liquidcci View Post
Here in lies the problem. The government can't raise the struggling up. Even if you believe wealth should be redistributed it is beyond me how anyone could believe the government can do it. All our entitlement programs government kangaroo accounting aside are bankrupt. The type of thinking coming out of the Obama administration will only serve to pull others down and will not raise up the struggling.

Our current path is not sustainable. Either spending must be cut or all of the middle class taxed. Tax the rich won't put a dent in it. Higher taxes for middle class will make the middle class smaller. So we better start cutting spending and yes that means some will suffer initially but many better off in long run. .


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 syxforex 
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It always comes back to food stamps... It's a smoke screen and a joke

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 liquidcci 
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syxforex View Post
Nor can the government maintain the ruling class with entitlement programs that dwarf the social security blanket, not even comparable. QEfinity, what kind of wealth distributing entitlement is that. The bank bailout. What planet are you on. It's not even comparable...

@syxforex believe me I am not a supporter of QEfinity.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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 Silver Dragon 
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syxforex View Post
Economics wasn't your major was it?

Living in the real world wasn't your major was it?

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 Jedi 
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In Greece sure it increased standard of living for a while. It was a false prosperity. But eventually with big government you pay the piper. It is a mentality that kills innovation, efficiency and slowly poisons peoples thinking. In Greece the poor are now poorer and what was the middle class is now poor. People dying on the streets because their government health care system is failing.

Show me one U.S. government program that is not rife with waste, inefficient, and overspends because when they need more money don't have to compete for it like private sector and just raise taxes. The government does very little dollar for dollar to help anyone. If someone barely surviving on welfare is helping someone lets all get on welfare. Would be better for that person to have a decent job which come when private sector succeeds not big government.

I agree but that's structural changes.. In the meantime, we need tax revenues and where should we get it from?

Greece is extreme and that's not where even Democrats aim to go.. While the times are hard, its the job of government to exercise damage control for its people.. Until a politician has the answers to implement the structural changes to offset, who should carry more of the tax burdens? Its only natural that the wealthy pays more.. Why further burden the struggling?

BTW-I am trading and am riding a short from 96 o CL and got 2 scales off.. aiming for 95 on last..

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 syxforex 
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Believe me, driving a cab 60 hours per week and still not being able to afford a new pair of nikes is more real than you will ever know...


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Living in the real world wasn't your major was it?


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 monpere 
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Speaking of welfare and playing fields. Welfare exists because the playing field is not level. The majority of people on welfare don't want to be there, they would rather work 3 jobs if they can find them. Problem is, because the field is not level, they have to take those 3 jobs which still is not enough for their basic needs. The decks are stacked against them, and they get stuck in that hole, void of opportunity due to the uneven playing field. They can't even afford to get sick, because they can't get health care. It's easy to brush that aside sitting in front of our array of 6 trading monitors.

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 Big Mike 
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 syxforex 
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sorry Mike, this is a hot thread, sorry to anybody if I've offended too much,., just political debate, not personal.


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 liquidcci 
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monpere View Post
Speaking of welfare and playing fields. Welfare exists because the playing field is not level. The majority of people on welfare don't want to be there, they would rather work 3 jobs if they can find them. Problem is, because the field is not level, they have to take those 3 jobs which still is not enough for their basic needs. The decks are stacked against them, and they get stuck in that hole, void of opportunity due to the uneven playing field. They can't even afford to get sick, because they can't get health care. It's easy to brush that aside sitting behind our array of 9 trading monitors.

Many do not want to be on welfare. But I have worked extensively with the down and out via non profit service and it is not that simple. Many people also prefer to be on welfare. The system is highly abused because of the way the government runs it.. There those who truly need help and then there are others who are perfectly able to work and not disabled but somehow get a "disabilities" designation and get a check from the government every month and have no intent to work ever. Amazing how many times I have seen this.

I have watched people climb out of welfare and become very successful so I am not sure how the playing is unlevel in that regard. They may have a more difficult start but they refused to be a victim and clawed their way out. The rules were the same for a person who started in the middle class. In fact I am sure there are many middle class that are now poor and many poor that are now middle class and even rich. I lived in NYC at one time and my income was considered border line poverty but I did not whine but fought my way out. The guy trying to stay at top of middle class was playing by same rules I was playing by.

Big government will only make it more difficult for people to climb out. Big government is not a leveler for the poor. It will take middle class down and make it harder for poor to climb out.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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 Big Mike 
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monpere View Post
Speaking of welfare and playing fields. Welfare exists because the playing field is not level. The majority of people on welfare don't want to be there, they would rather work 3 jobs if they can find them. Problem is, because the field is not level, they have to take those 3 jobs which still is not enough for their basic needs. The decks are stacked against them, and they get stuck in that hole, void of opportunity due to the uneven playing field. They can't even afford to get sick, because they can't get health care. It's easy to brush that aside sitting in front of our array of 6 trading monitors.

Do you believe this is primarily due to education? Or is simply bad luck on who your parents were (rich vs poor) and the opportunity that is given or lost as a result?

For me personally, any time I encountered something that I wanted to learn, I would teach myself. I preferred this approach to a structured approach. I would rather fall back on structure only when needed.

Why do you think a poor person, even with great ambition and drive, is unable to break away from his surroundings and really excel?

I think education plays a large part, as does the family structure. If your family structure is setup in such a way that there are constant excuses as to why things cannot be changed or improved, then that is really tough to overcome.

There is a quote which I cannot recall the source, that goes basically like this: "Once you learn how to make money, you can always make more". I think it is true. I think that if the market blew up and ceased to exist tomorrow, I am not worried about how I will earn a living. But for the majority of Americans, this is unattainable and unimaginable.

Why do you think that is?

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Big Mike View Post
Do you believe this is primarily due to education? Or is simply bad luck on who your parents were (rich vs poor) and the opportunity that is given or lost as a result?

For me personally, any time I encountered something that I wanted to learn, I would teach myself. I preferred this approach to a structured approach. I would rather fall back on structure only when needed.

Why do you think a poor person, even with great ambition and drive, is unable to break away from his surroundings and really excel?

I think education plays a large part, as does the family structure. If your family structure is setup in such a way that there are constant excuses as to why things cannot be changed or improved, then that is really tough to overcome.

There is a quote which I cannot recall the source, that goes basically like this: "Once you learn how to make money, you can always make more". I think it is true. I think that if the market blew up and ceased to exist tomorrow, I am not worried about how I will earn a living. But for the majority of Americans, this is unattainable and unimaginable.

Why do you think that is?

Mike

I think education or lack thereof, is a huge part of it. Those that make it out of that hole are the exceptions, and generally have an exceptional drive, or got an exceptional break. That should not be norm for any group of people. No one should have to be exceptional in order to get their basic needs met, or get real opportunities to better their lives. Are there those who abuse the system? sure, there will always be those, but by in large I don't believe they are the majority.

 
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 syxforex 
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I think you are bang on the money Mike. I think we have all come to this forum and to the markets in search of a better life because of a similar drive to learn and succeed. Just to clarify, when I talk about a level playing field I am not talking about a pro-welfare state where all have the same opportunities and advantages. We are defined by what we overcome in life, it's what makes us who we are. What I am talking about in terms of fair game and a level playing field is on the side of anti-corruption, the pampering and coddling and serving of the rich through loopholes, special rights, and criminal monetary policies. As an independent proprietary trader competing against Goldman, another supposedly independent proprietary trading house, how can I possibly compete when they have an unlimited government backstop? A quick review of basic game theory will show that the former will have 0% chance of beating the latter in a free market. Hence, there is no game to be played. This is where I'm coming in from when I see the playing field as uneven. It has nothing to do with foodstamps or the like, that is a symptom of the corruption, not the cause.


Big Mike View Post
Do you believe this is primarily due to education? Or is simply bad luck on who your parents were (rich vs poor) and the opportunity that is given or lost as a result?

For me personally, any time I encountered something that I wanted to learn, I would teach myself. I preferred this approach to a structured approach. I would rather fall back on structure only when needed.

Why do you think a poor person, even with great ambition and drive, is unable to break away from his surroundings and really excel?

I think education plays a large part, as does the family structure. If your family structure is setup in such a way that there are constant excuses as to why things cannot be changed or improved, then that is really tough to overcome.

There is a quote which I cannot recall the source, that goes basically like this: "Once you learn how to make money, you can always make more". I think it is true. I think that if the market blew up and ceased to exist tomorrow, I am not worried about how I will earn a living. But for the majority of Americans, this is unattainable and unimaginable.

Why do you think that is?

Mike


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 Jedi 
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Here in lies the problem. The government can't raise the struggling up. Even if you believe wealth should be redistributed it is beyond me how anyone could believe the government can do it. All our entitlement programs government kangaroo accounting aside are bankrupt. The type of thinking coming out of the Obama administration will only serve to pull others down and will not raise up the struggling.

Our current path is not sustainable. Either spending must be cut or all of the middle class taxed. Tax the rich won't put a dent in it. Higher taxes for middle class will make the middle class smaller. So we better start cutting spending and yes that means some will suffer initially but many better off in long run. .

The government cant raise up the struggling but it can create a path for those willing to make an effort.. I don't believe in redistribution of wealth but the government aims to be there for the people and that means taxes.. NO PATH IS SUSTAINABLE IN THE CURRENT ECONOMY... When the economy is good, tax revenues has resources to pay for more than people imagine.. THE KEY QUESTION IS HOW DO WE GROW THE ECONOMY, and it has less to do with taxes than people think.. middle class shopping will help the economy more than the 1% buying luxuries..

How do you describe middle class? Obama administration describes it as $250k or greater, which is probably more like the average income of the wealthier neighborhoods here with 2 professionals.. The tax increases are also marginal for that group.. How will that snuff out the middle class?

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Just to clarify, when I talk about a level playing field I am not talking about a pro-welfare state where all have the same opportunities and advantages. .

That's called communism and that experiment has already given its answers...ha Just look at China, Russia and East Germany before the Berlin Wall came down so clearly nobody on this thread is referring to that kind of level playing field but one where someone is looking out for the disadvantaged to help them out rather than to sympathize with the wealthy for paying more taxes.. Many of them or their parents would have never been in that upper middle class were it not for the opportunity presented to them..

 
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 syxforex 
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Thanks, I do know what communism is.. There have been Canadians defending Norad stations and fighting against it for as long as there has been a cold war...


Jedi View Post
That's called communism and that experiment has already given its answers...ha Just look at China, Russia and East Germany before the Berlin Wall came down so clearly nobody on this thread is referring to that kind of level playing field but one where someone is looking out for the disadvantaged to help them out rather than to sympathize with the wealthy for paying more taxes.. Many of them or their parents would have never been in that upper middle class were it not for the opportunity presented to them..


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 syxforex 
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anyhow, i just hope the real government knows what they are doing... time for me to get back to trading and away from this crazy blogging... it's been real...

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 liquidcci 
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Jedi View Post
The government cant raise up the struggling but it can create a path for those willing to make an effort.. I don't believe in redistribution of wealth but the government aims to be there for the people and that means taxes.. NO PATH IS SUSTAINABLE IN THE CURRENT ECONOMY... When the economy is good, tax revenues has resources to pay for more than people imagine.. THE KEY QUESTION IS HOW DO WE GROW THE ECONOMY, and it has less to do with taxes than people think.. middle class shopping will help the economy more than the 1% buying luxuries..

How do you describe middle class? Obama administration describes it as $250k or greater, which is probably more like the average income of the wealthier neighborhoods here with 2 professionals.. The tax increases are also marginal for that group.. How will that snuff out the middle class?

@Jedi in the governments effort to create a path through entitlement they have a dug a hole so deep we may not come out. They were digging this hole when the economy was good it is just seen for what it is when things get bad. Reality is it is unsustainable. Reality is we are starting to see the size of the iceberg.

Look at this debt clock and tell me what you see? U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

One thing I will point is the unfunded liabilities created by entitlement programs is over $1,000,000 per taxpayer and that is rising. In other words these programs are bankrupt now. I mean come on $1,000,000 per taxpayer.

Obama calls the 250k crowd rich I would call that upper middle class. But my point is they cannot do what they say they are going to do by raising taxes on 250k and above crowd. One it will kill jobs and two it will only marginally put a dent in the debt. They will have to go for the rest of the middle class unless they really curtail spending. It is essentially a lie when they say will not raise taxes on middle class. The only way they have any "chance" of not doing that is to curtail spending. Big government ideologues will not curtail spending they will only give us kangaroo accounting numbers that try and make it looks like cuts.


All I will say is we better wake up or there will be no path to prosperity for any American.

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liquidcci View Post
@Jedi in the governments effort to create a path through entitlement they have a dug a hole so deep we may not come out. They were digging this hole when the economy was good it is just seen for what it is when things get bad. Reality is it is unsustainable. Reality is we are starting to see the size of the iceberg.

Look at this debt clock and tell me what you see? U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

One thing I will point is the unfunded liabilities created by entitlement programs is over $1,000,000 per taxpayer and that is rising. In other words these programs are bankrupt now. I mean come on $1,000,000 per taxpayer.

Obama calls the 250k crowd rich I would call that upper middle class. But my point is they cannot do what they say they are going to do by raising taxes on 250k and above crowd. One it will kill jobs and two it will only marginally put a dent in the debt. They will have to go for the rest of the middle class unless they really curtail spending. It is essentially a lie when they say will not raise taxes on middle class. The only way they have any "chance" of not doing that is to curtail spending. Big government ideologues will not curtail spending they will only give us kangaroo accounting numbers that try and make it looks like cuts.


All I will say is we better wake up or there will be no path to prosperity for any American.

I agree both sides needs to give some.. meaning taxes are necessary and likely more reasonable on the wealthier, but resources for programs can only go so far to prevent future deficits.. However, and ironically, the best time to cut programs is not when its needed the most like now but when the economy is strong and tax revenues are more bountiful.. Another big catch-22 and that's why politicians are often taken very lightly because most of the times, they're just talkers and light weights in action in a democracy.. but then a dictatorship creates its own issues..

We can all point the finger but until someone has a solution, we roll with the here and now and that means the rich not the poor pay more taxes until programs are reduced during better times to eliminate the need.. a big catch-22

What is bent cannot be straightened
and what is broken cannot possibly be counted

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 kbit 
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Alex lays this out pretty good.
.

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You can't solve our problems through taxation and revenue. We simply spend far too much.

Everyone knows this.

Yet we just spent another trillion on QE3, like it's nothing. Well you can remove "like", because it really was nothing in that case. But in the end, it will turn in to something and the unwinding of which will be disastrous.

But I don't think anyone says that problems can be solved simply by taxing >250k more.

Mike

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This video does an acceptable job of describing why taxation will not fix anything:



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If pot were decriminalized and taxed the interest on the debt clock would immediately stop ticking from the consumption tax revenue. Likely hundreds of thousands of small business and jobs would be created, economic multipliers would add to the economic growth. It's so obvious it's painful. How's that war on drugs going? Or costing I should say? Insanity. Alcohol is legal and the simple pot plant isn't?

Apart from taxing an industry that already exists in the shadows and will never ever, repeat, never be crushed by the right wing extremists, a new growth industry must take hold. Again, it's obvious, natural gas. It requires a government kickstart, but that's not going to happen so long as the oil men control congress....

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Full video from "Mother Jones" on Romney





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Source: Your Taxes At Work: All You Need To Know About Who Pays What Taxes In The US | ZeroHedge



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 syxforex 
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Video - The Political Fallout of Romney's 47% Comments - WSJ.com

<iframe frameborder="0" scrolling="no" width="512" height="288" src="http://live.wsj.com/public/page/embed-D15B4615_6616_44CF_B8AD_A1CD456ADEBE.html"></iframe>

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 liquidcci 
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More than 170 years ago, the French political thinker and writer, Alexis de Tocqueville saw this coming, and warned of its dangers in his most famous writing, Democracy in America. Here is an excerpt below:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.”

The republic cannot survive so much dependency
Commentary: What the 47% who rely on government must know

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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 syxforex 
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The US voters can't vote for largesse from a treasury that is owned by the banks. Over the past ten years Canada has been downsizing and voting the other way, even at a time when we are discovering unprecedented oil resources.




liquidcci View Post
More than 170 years ago, the French political thinker and writer, Alexis de Tocqueville saw this coming, and warned of its dangers in his most famous writing, Democracy in America. Here is an excerpt below:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.”

The republic cannot survive so much dependency
Commentary: What the 47% who rely on government must know


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 liquidcci 
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Our public treasury cannot sustain further “largesse.” Our national debt has ballooned to more than $16 trillion. The top 25 percent of wage earners contribute 87 percent of all tax revenue and it is numerically impossible to tax them sufficiently to pay for this expansion of federal government – let alone pay down our debt. For another viewpoint, read Rex Nutting’s column on the 47%.

Our entire fiscal and monetary policy is now based on one simple axiom: What we cannot tax, we borrow, and what we cannot borrow, we print.

The path we are on in 2012 is perilous and unsustainable. We must change course.

This November, Americans will not simply be choosing one man or another as president, they will be choosing the future direction of these United States of America.

The question is not whether one candidate is nicer or more likable or even easier to relate to. The fundamental question all Americans must ask themselves is what kind of a nation shall we be? And what does it mean to be an American?

The republic cannot survive so much dependency
Commentary: What the 47% who rely on government must know


Despite our federal government’s borrowing over a trillion dollars each of the last three years in order to expand “investment” and “stimulate our economy,” we now have a record number of Americans in poverty and a record number on food stamps.

The fact is, the Obama administration is fostering a nation of dependency.

As a result, the very foundations of our nation, and the principles upon which this Republic prospered and succeeded, have been turned upside down.

and

Sadly, those Americans who depend so heavily on government programs seem the most unaware that the programs upon which they rely on are in danger of disappearing altogether. As Margaret Thatcher stated so eloquently, “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money. ”

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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 syxforex 
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Too big too fail = largesse ... what will they do if this bubble bursts? They will get another trillion, guaranteed.

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 liquidcci 
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syxforex View Post
Too big too fail = largesse ... what will they do if this bubble bursts? They will get another trillion, guaranteed.

@sysforex I think you are missing my point and reading my posts out of context. I think we both agree Quantitative Easing and bailing out bankers has been apart of digging the debt hole.

Whether it is runaway bankrupt entitlement programs or printing of money by the FED reality is they are both digging a hole that can't be taxed out of.

The article I referenced does a good job of pointing out two different visions of the United States.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
 
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 syxforex 
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I agree with your liquidcci, painful cuts are necessary. However, I just want to point out where the lions share of entitlement and welfare is going, not to foodstamps, not even close. Those peopes are small enough to fail..

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 Cloudy 
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Just my thoughts. It's frustrating to see the Romney campaign care more about the leaked video than keeping his message going. (What about something like Herman Cain's "9-9-9" plan about now, or are they saving it later for some timing around debate time? ) There are still little details about how Romney as President can help the economy and reduce government spending. And it seems like this has been going on for a long time re: lack of details and coasting along trying to get by without details just as long as the party candidate wins. Maybe they all know it's going down the cliff anyways. re: taxes. Completely agree, it's mostly the upper middle class shouldering the burden but yearly tax revenue can hardly make a dent in the overall deficit spending. While those rich enough (remember, "corporations are "people" too!") can more effectively loophole and tax-evade offshore in tax haven islands. Almost like the upper middle class are duped into it too and eventually they will also fail to progress in mobility as the dollar weakens further leaving only the "1%" to benefit at all in this climate. (edit: looking at the "1%" figure > $350k; thought it was more like > $2mil)

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 syxforex 
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1% of something is better than 99% of nothing...


Cloudy View Post
Just my thoughts. It's frustrating to see the Romney campaign care more about the leaked video than keeping his message going. (What about something like Herman Cain's "9-9-9" plan about now, or are they saving it later for some timing around debate time? ) There are still little details about how Romney as President can help the economy and reduce government spending. And it seems like this has been going on for a long time re: lack of details and coasting along trying to get by without details just as long as the party candidate wins. Maybe they all know it's going down the cliff anyways. re: taxes. Completely agree, it's mostly the upper middle class shouldering the burden but yearly tax revenue can hardly make a dent in the overall deficit spending. While those rich enough (remember, "corporations are "people" too!") can more effectively loophole and offshore in tax haven islands. Almost like the upper middle class are duped into it too and eventually they will also fail to progress in mobility as the dollar weakens further leaving only the "1%" to benefit at all in this climate.


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 Cloudy 
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liquidcci View Post
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.”

The republic cannot survive so much dependency
Commentary: What the 47% who rely on government must know

Would hope democracy could be permanently sustained by a wised-up citizenry. Unfortunately California is practically a prime textbook example of the quote and held hostage. Illinois too. (The idiots at KFI640AM John and Ken show helped shoot down Meg Whitman's chances against Jerry Brown. & the "City of Bell" scandal, the biggest example of a tiny city council swipe in the U.S. Maybe a contributing factor where most of the "citizens" were more "literate" in spanish and little awareness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Bell_scandal https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130108851?storyId=130108851?storyId=130108851?storyId=130108851 )

some websites of each side:
https://arc.asm.ca.gov/member/37/?p=custom&pid=229
https://investortimes.com/progressreport/dont-blame-california-public-employees/

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 liquidcci 
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Cloudy View Post
Would hope democracy could be permanently sustained by a wised-up citizenry. Unfortunately California is practically a textbook example of the quote and held hostage. Illinois too. (The idiots at KFI640AM John and Ken show helped shoot down Meg Whitman's chances against Jerry Brown. )

@Cloudy that is my hope to. That is where the middle class better realize they are being lied to when are told can continue on our current spending path and they will never have taxes raised. I would say the progressive liberals think the middle class is under taxed although they will not admit it because they know would not be elected. They need much more than the 250k and above crowd to expand their vision of a socialist empire.

Has America been so dumbed down that people can't see in November if they vote for Obama they vote for their own demise?

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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 Jedi 
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Carl Marx said the end destination is communism, and that's why Lenin decided to just go straight there... The end destination may not be communism but a combination of capitalism and socialism and that's not going away..

Everything needs to strike a balance but we need to keep some things in context:
- although taxes has been growing for the rich, the gap between the rich and poor has be growing and most from the wealthy getting wealthier..
- in addition, the amount of the super rich has also been growing in that environment, so the high taxes is not having an impact on the wealthy getting wealthier so burdening the poor with more taxes is not the answer
- we can reduce social programs that makes it easier for the poor to enter the middle class but how much are we saving from our deficit?
- how much is the bank bail outs contributing to our deficits and how is it impacting the economy? Its basically bailing out the rich so they can keep receiving big bonuses.. It may save jobs and prevent further meltdown but the same can be said about many social programs..
- the wealthy and powerful has always been kissing each other's "buttock" and everyone turns a blind eye to the disadvantaged when a nation is actually built from the bottom up and not the top down.. Why was the US so strong in the past? It had a mass middle class in the baby boomers..
- The US had almost no global competition in the past since most of the world's infrastructure was destroyed after ww2 and we were providers for the world, but now the US has to compete with cheap labor from India and China and developed worlds where their economy has rebuilt.. The past is gone forever and the world is changing.. We can never go back to the past because the context has changed dramatically..
- In the end, if we want this nation to be great for the future, we need to grow the middle class.. I don't pretend to have the answers to do that but anything that moves in that direction is more likely the on the right path.. So social programs should be managed better and thought thru well but should not be eliminated to be more "fair" to the wealthy.. The wealthy are doing just fine and better than fine even in this environment.. Everyone is looking out for them..

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  #278 (permalink)
 monpere 
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liquidcci View Post
@sysforex I think you are missing my point and reading my posts out of context. I think we both agree Quantitative Easing and bailing out bankers has been apart of digging the debt hole.

Whether it is runaway bankrupt entitlement programs or printing of money by the FED reality is they are both digging a hole that can't be taxed out of.

The article I referenced does a good job of pointing out two different visions of the United States.

Didn't I hear that AIG, GM and Chrysler repaid their TARP to the government and that the government actually made a profit on those deals?

 
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  #279 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Source: CNBC And Yahoo Finance Readers REALLY Liked Mitt Romney's Comments - Business Insider



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 wldman 
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and there is nothing in the world that could make me less likely to vote against President Obama...nothing

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 wldman 
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this is a left wing poll desiogned to be used by their loser pundits during the evening cycle and it just ain't going their way...that is hysterical.

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 syxforex 
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Jay Z and Beyonce voting for Obama -- Jay Z does rock...

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 Big Mike 
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Source: 2012 Presidential Debate Schedule &#171; 2012 Election Central



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 liquidcci 
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I thought Obama was against all the excess of those rich people

President Barack Obama attended a fundraiser at Jay-Z's 40/40 Club in Manhattan that featured a champagne tower of 350 bottles worth $105,000 - more than twice the median household income of an American family.
The tower of $300-a-bottle Armand de Brignac Brut Gold, known as 'Ace of Spades' because of its label, is a permanent fixture at the club.
'It’s floor-to-ceiling gold bottles in the entire space,' a 40/40 representative told the New York Post. 'It’s beautiful—breathtaking. It’s the first thing you see when you walk in.'
The median income for an American family was $51,413 in 2011.

At the 40/40 Club, the singer Beyonce introduced Obama and said that she and her husband Jay-Z 'believe in his vision'.

Speaking to the 47%: The $105,000 champagne tower featured at Obama fundraiser hosted by Jay-Z and Beyonce

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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 syxforex 
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Ya, if he was at a Goldman party drinking a trillion dollar bottle of bailout bubbly that would not have gone over well the 47%...

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  #286 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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The most insane entitlement on the planet is the infinite tax payer money for special corporations entitlement program. Mr. Goldman, that fine citizen that he is, makes his money as a trader. Sounds like a lot the people in here. Private entrepreneurs who use their hard earned skills as traders to take risk and be a part of the grease in the wheels that makes the world run. In fact he is just like us. He likes to call himself a bank as he get's more respect from the neighbours, and of course they do have a few resident corporate finance folk, but the truth is he isn't a bank at all, just a trader, like you and me. But he's a special trader. He was elected by the people to trade their tax payments for the benefit of all in society. You see, Mr. G is oh so generous.

People wake up. Every night, Mr. Goldman has the right to go the the US Treasury, via the fed, and take as much of your tax payments to gamble in the market, or anything else he wants to do as a private corporation. This is the gift that keeps on giving, the eternal bailout.

Who gave us this too big to fail paradigm. Why can't I go to the fed tonight and borrow 50grand so that I can cover my margins tomorrow? Tell me why I can't and he can? This is Paulson, Bush and co's creation, the Republicans, and I never hear them answering for it. They just want to talk about old peoples social security and food stamps. I like most of their ideas, except for this one, and of course their anti-freedom anti-pot laws. If they could fix these two things, I'd probably be in their camp. But they don't even atone for it. They don't talk about it. Every single person who has money sitting with a private banker or hedge fund as reaped record returns and bonuses since 2008, sucked directly from the blood of the working man. This is the greatest socialized wealth transfer human history has ever seen.

So please, Republicans, if you want my support, stop telling me that ending foodstamps and not paying taxes is going to take care of the 16 Trillion dollar tax liability and start telling me how all the white shoe folk connected to the bailout are going to chip in and give a little back.

I like Jay Z. He knows that without his country he is nothing. Without the people who buy his records and support him, he would be nothing. No one gave him a bailout, but he wants to give something back. Show me some Republicans who feel that way and win me over. I prefer most of their doctrine, but I'm not hearing what I need to hear.

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 syxforex 
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@WSJdealjournal Goldman’s New CFO ‘Will Play Well’ in DC Says Ex-SEC Chairman by

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 kbit 
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syxforex View Post
The most insane entitlement on the planet is the infinite tax payer money for special corporations entitlement program. Mr. Goldman, that fine citizen that he is, makes his money as a trader. Sounds like a lot the people in here. Private entrepreneurs who use their hard earned skills as traders to take risk and be a part of the grease in the wheels that makes the world run. In fact he is just like us. He likes to call himself a bank as he get's more respect from the neighbours, and of course they do have a few resident corporate finance folk, but the truth is he isn't a bank at all, just a trader, like you and me. But he's a special trader. He was elected by the people to trade their tax payments for the benefit of all in society. You see, Mr. G is oh so generous.

People wake up. Every night, Mr. Goldman has the right to go the the US Treasury, via the fed, and take as much of your tax payments to gamble in the market, or anything else he wants to do as a private corporation. This is the gift that keeps on giving, the eternal bailout.

Who gave us this too big to fail paradigm. Why can't I go to the fed tonight and borrow 50grand so that I can cover my margins tomorrow? Tell me why I can't and he can? This is Paulson, Bush and co's creation, the Republicans, and I never hear them answering for it. They just want to talk about old peoples social security and food stamps. I like most of their ideas, except for this one, and of course their anti-freedom anti-pot laws. If they could fix these two things, I'd probably be in their camp. But they don't even atone for it. They don't talk about it. Every single person who has money sitting with a private banker or hedge fund as reaped record returns and bonuses since 2008, sucked directly from the blood of the working man. This is the greatest socialized wealth transfer human history has ever seen.

So please, Republicans, if you want my support, stop telling me that ending foodstamps and not paying taxes is going to take care of the 16 Trillion dollar tax liability and start telling me how all the white shoe folk connected to the bailout are going to chip in and give a little back.

I like Jay Z. He knows that without his country he is nothing. Without the people who buy his records and support him, he would be nothing. No one gave him a bailout, but he wants to give something back. Show me some Republicans who feel that way and win me over. I prefer most of their doctrine, but I'm not hearing what I need to hear.

I think you need to remember Obama hasn't changed any of this stuff and in fact as far as prosecuting financial crooks has done less than Bush ( Obama Prosecuting Fewer Financial Crimes Than Under Either Bush Presidency).

I'd also like to call attention to:
Republicans Versus Democrats - Why Some People Give More To A Charity
Republicans Versus Democrats - Why Some People Give More To A Charity

Conservatives More Liberal Givers
RealClearPolitics - Articles - Conservatives More Liberal Givers

Just saying.....

 
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 syxforex 
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Thanks kbit, I'm trying to understand this, who has done what to get these trading houses off the government dole and out of the US Treasury. Didn't Obama kind of get shut down on his regulation efforts when the Republicans took over the congress. I don't know anything, so please help me with the facts.

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 kbit 
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syxforex View Post
Thanks kbit, I'm trying to understand this, who has done what to get these trading houses off the government dole and out of the US Treasury. Didn't Obama kind of get shut down on his regulation efforts when the Republicans took over the congress. I don't know anything, so please help me with the facts.

I confess I don't know it all either but the way I see it we got the Dodd-Frank bill from Obama and he considers it "fixed".
It is of course a total piece of legislative shit that NO ONE likes and solves nothing.

It seems to me that they should have just reinstated Glass-Steagall and put some banksters in jail to send a message but we got a bunch of Barney Frank garbage instead and no one is held accountable for anything.

 
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 syxforex 
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Glass-Steagall doesn't affect Goldman or Morgan Stanley, or the former Merrill, Lehman, and Bear. These banks did not merge with deposit taking institutions. They are strictly market operators. Nothing to do with Glass-Steagall. I want to know why Paulson and Bush's, and Geitner's decision to put them on the Fed back door is still in place now that the crisis has passed and they have been making record profits ever since.

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 syxforex 
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Romney's '47%' Gaffe Exposes The Hidden Economic Depression Underlying America

Recently Mitt Romney effectively "stepped in it" by stating that the President Obama could count on the support of 47% of Americans, who rely on government, don't pay tax and "believe they are victims". While the statement was very misguided, and a critical blow to the Romney campaign, it tells a deeper story of the real state of the economy and the demise of American prosperity.

Romney Should Be Fighting For The 47% - Business Insider

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  #293 (permalink)
 syxforex 
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Marijuana Legalization Could Be A Tax Windfall For States

2 Billion my a.... There is as much $ of pot going to organzied crime as there is gas consumption going to the oil companies.

Read more: Mairjuana Legalization Tax Benefits - Business Insider

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 syxforex 
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Bush-Era Tax Cuts May Expire as Step to Budget Deal, Tyson Says

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 syxforex 
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Goldman’s Blankfein: Poor wealth redistribution behind social unrest in U.S.

“And I think in the United States over the last generation or two we’ve been much better at generating wealth and much less good at distributing it.”


In a question and answer session with Royal Bank of Canada chief executive Gord Nixon, Mr. Blankfein, who’s net worth is more than US$232-million, quipped that “I’m not saying … I’m a socialist,”

Goldman’s Lloyd Blankfein: Poor wealth distribution behind U.S. unrest | FP Street | News | Financial Post


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 syxforex 
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@zerohedge
Banks are hopping to it. Hopping “@Reuters_Biz: Fed's Fisher repeats call to break up big banks Fed's Fisher repeats call to break up big banks | Reuters

Fed's Fisher repeats call to break up big banks | Reuters


kbit View Post
I confess I don't know it all either but the way I see it we got the Dodd-Frank bill from Obama and he considers it "fixed".
It is of course a total piece of legislative shit that NO ONE likes and solves nothing.

It seems to me that they should have just reinstated Glass-Steagall and put some banksters in jail to send a message but we got a bunch of Barney Frank garbage instead and no one is held accountable for anything.


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 Tarkus11 
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syxforex View Post
Goldman’s Blankfein: Poor wealth redistribution behind social unrest in U.S.

Mr. Blankfein, who’s net worth is more than US$232-million, quipped that “I’m not saying … I’m a socialist,”


Actually, if the government gives your industry bailouts to save you from bad business decisions, you don't have to say it. You are.

 
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  #298 (permalink)
 Silver Dragon 
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Level playing field:

@Jedi and @syxforex

Both of you guys talk it up about making everything fair, you know a "level playing field" where nobody is left behind and everybody wins or at the very least have a high chance of winning.

As you may well know about 90% of all traders fail. What would you do level the playing field for trading? What laws, regulations or redistribution would you implement to level the playing field so all traders succeed and not just the ones who work hard or have talent. Be specific.

nosce te ipsum

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 syxforex 
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First of all I would say that if I have to explain to a person why in a free market economy the concept of 'fair game' is a quintessential principle then I'm going to need a lot more than a few specifics as they pertain to myself. For a specific example as it applies to my budding corporation I would point to the fact that the biggest 'competitor' in the market is Goldman and Morgan Stanley, both of which have a special right to use taxpayers money for their trading risk capital. If they win, they win big, and they can put the squeeze on lesser capitalzied players. If they lose, the taxpayers pay. We are in the very same business. There is zero difference. If there was a level playing field I would be calling the fed this evening and have them wiring me 200K to my clearing firm for tomorrows trading day.


Silver Dragon View Post
Level playing field:

@Jedi and @syxforex

Both of you guys talk it up about making everything fair, you know a "level playing field" where nobody is left behind and everybody wins or at the very least have a high chance of winning.

As you may well know about 90% of all traders fail. What would you do level the playing field for trading? What laws, regulations or redistribution would you implement to level the playing field so all traders succeed and not just the ones who work hard or have talent. Be specific.


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 furytrader 
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I think the discussion here about "fair games" is a bit misguided - a fair game means that everyone plays by the same rules and is treated the same. It doesn't mean that the outcomes should be the same ... although I do think that there is a strain of liberalism in the US that believes this should be the case.

As for Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley "playing with the taxpayer's money," I recall that JP Morgan earlier this year ponied up over $6 billion for a single bad trading strategy, and I don't recall anyone saying anything about having the taxpayers pay for that. Similarly, Knight Trading lost almost half a billion dollars in less than an hour, and I don't recall taxpayers paying a dime for that.

As for your own budding business, Syxforex, I am in the same business as you if that is trading. Every day, my trades go up against JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Citadel, Citigroup, Renaissance Technologies, and on and on. Whether I make or lose money is not because those guys have some hotline to the Treasury Department. It's because I decide when to buy or sell, when to enter markets and when to exit.

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