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Athletic thread: Cycling, Biking, Running and more
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Athletic thread: Cycling, Biking, Running and more

  #71 (permalink)
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Zondor View Post
A good reason not to overdo the coffee. For me a couple of servings is the max for the day.




Here is where the energy comes from.. these videos are a hoot!

ATP & Respiration: Biology #7 - YouTube

There are ways to get caffeine without the chlorogenic acid.

Anyway I did watch a few minutes of the lower video. Too complex for me in general.

I would say that it's not as simple as the body doing its chemistry, making energy and
all that...on autopilot. Mental attitude is just as important, or at times even more so. I find
that way strong coffee (ie. caffeine) usually creates a temporary positive attitude for a while.
Or at least a less negative attitude.

Since I have depression, that's the best I can do.

So if the body is making ATP and the associated compounds, and yet I feel exhausted, is it really
making them? Sort of like, a tree falling in the forest and there's no one to hear it and all that.
It's assumed that an otherwise healthy person has all that energy within them...somewhere.



This attitude change relates to:
================================================================
Caffeine increases levels of neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine, acetylcholine, dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine and glutamate. (from wikipedia)

Also:

Caffeine can stimulate the secretion of stress hormones (such as epinephrine and norepinephrine), which can... (from wikipedia)

Also:

Caffeine releases norepinephrine, dopamine and serotonin in the brain... (from wikipedia)
================================================================

When I think of caffeine I think of norepinephrine. It's probably not that simple, but I try to make it simple.
The trouble is that norepinephrine is hard for the brain(?) to make. So once the caffeine releases the
neurotransmitter, it takes hours to make more. If it didn't, then we could all take a strong cup of coffee
every hour or two and always feel upbeat and energetic.

================================================================

Differences in the norepinephrine system are implicated in depression. Serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors are antidepressants that treat depression by increasing the amount of serotonin and norepinephrine available to postsynaptic cells in the brain. There is some recent evidence implying that SNRIs may also increase dopamine transmission.[38] This is because SNRIs work by inhibiting reuptake, i.e. inhibiting the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters from taking their respective neurotransmitters back to their storage vesicles for later use. If the norepinephrine transporter normally recycles some dopamine too, then SNRIs will also enhance dopaminergic transmission. Therefore, the antidepressant effects associated with increasing norepinephrine levels may also be partly or largely due to the concurrent increase in dopamine (in particular in the prefrontal cortex of the brain).

Tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) increase norepinephrine activity as well. Most of them also increase serotonin activity, but tend to produce unwanted side-effects due to the..."

Norepinephrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

=====================================================================





Since caffeine is thee legal drug of our culture, taken by children as well as adults, I've posted the
link below. Might of even learned something myself.

The good and bad of caffeine is below. Keep in mind that coffee is not just caffeine. Zondor, you might not
get much out of the link. That's fine. There are others here that might find something new. You seem to have
your act together regarding health/nutrition and all that. That's great actually.

Health effects of caffeine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- Stephen

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  #72 (permalink)
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I can't remember if anyone covered this already.

Does anyone monitor their heart rate during exercise and compare it to
some standard 'maximum heart rate for your age' chart of some sort?

I've quickly enclosed a couple links. Don't have time to check them out as yet.

The image is from the top link.


Heart Rate Chart | Heart.com

Maximum Heart Rate

Pulse and Target Heart Rate

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Athletic thread: Cycling, Biking, Running and more-heart-rate.png  
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  #73 (permalink)
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I monitor my heart rate sometimes during exercise, and it can be a good way to measure workout intensity. There is a relation between heart rate and power output but it changes over the course of a workout due to something called "Cardiac Drift".

These articles explain the problems with using heart rate measurements for training.
The Effect Of Cardiac Drift On Heart-Rate Training
Three Reasons To Rethink Heart-Rate Training


On the bicycle I have a power measuring hub that can record (for later download to a PC) power output, speed and heart rate versus time. Before these came along, pace and heart rate were the only objective measurements available. But all athletes have always relied on subjective evaluation of perceived exertion, which can be quantified according to the "Borg scale" which sounds like it has something to do with Skynet but doesn't.

From the second link above:

Quoting 
In my experience as a coach and athlete, training by heart rate is less accurate and more problematic than training by pace and feel unless you are a very experienced runner.*


The 220 minus age maximum heart rate formula is a simplistic, nonsensical, but oft repeated myth that has no real scientific basis, as are the training ranges based on it. The formula was based on a quick back of the envelope calculation and was never intended to be anything other than a rough rule of thumb. So of course it gets picked up by all sorts of self defined "experts" and immortalized as an absolute truth, sorta like the abysmal Ninjascript coding practices I like to rail against.

If I went by that dopey formula my heart rate would be above the recommended maximum training HR during the entire duration of my bike rides (which are often >2 hours) unless I adjusted my age by subtracting a few decades, give or take. And it would often be higher than the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM listed for my age, which means that I must be taking my life in my hands every time I go out the door and "proves" that I'd better replace my road bike with a rocking chair.

Here is what Gabe Mirkin, MD, a serious athlete, has to say about the Maximum Heart Rate Formula


Quoting 
Dr. Sam Fox is one of the most respected heart specialists in the world. In the 1960s, he was very helpful to me when I was competing, planning and setting up running programs. In 1970 he was the director of the United States Public Health Service Program to Prevent heart disease. He and a young researcher named William Haskell were flying to a meeting. They put together several studies comparing maximum heart rate and age. Sam Fox took out a pencil and plotted a graph of age verses maximum heart rate and noticed that maximum heart rate appeared to equal to 220 minus a person's age. They reported this observation, and for the last 40 years, the formula has been taught in physical education courses and used to test heart function and athletic fitness. The whole concept of maximum heart rate and the formula that it is equal to 220 minus your age is flawed.
A study of 43 different formulae for maximum Heart Rate concluded that 1) " No "acceptable" formula currently existed". 2) The formula that fit age better than others is: HRmax = 205.8 - (0.685 x age). It has a standard deviation that is 6.4 beats per minute which is very large (1).
The formula is wrong because your legs drive your heart rate; your heart does not drive your legs. Maximum heart rate depends on the strength of your legs, not the strength of your heart. When you contract your leg muscles, they squeeze against the blood vessels near them to pump blood from your leg veins toward your heart. When your leg muscles relax, your leg veins fill with blood. So your leg muscles pump increased amounts of blood toward your heart. This increased blood fills the heart and causes your heart to be faster and with more force. This is called the Bainbridge reflex. The stronger your legs are, the more blood they can pump, which causes your heart to beat faster



Last edited by Zondor; October 12th, 2012 at 07:52 AM.
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  #74 (permalink)
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Thanks Zondor

part of your post is here:

===========================================================


A study of 43 different formulae for maximum Heart Rate concluded that 1) " No "acceptable" formula currently existed". 2) The formula that fit age better than others is: HRmax = 205.8 - (0.685 x age). It has a standard deviation that is 6.4 beats per minute which is very large (1).


The formula is wrong because your legs drive your heart rate; your heart does not drive your legs. Maximum heart rate depends on the strength of your legs, not the strength of your heart. When you contract your leg muscles, they squeeze against the blood vessels near them to pump blood from your leg veins toward your heart. When your leg muscles relax, your leg veins fill with blood. So your leg muscles pump increased amounts of blood toward your heart. This increased blood fills the heart and causes your heart to be faster and with more force. This is called the Bainbridge reflex. The stronger your legs are, the more blood they can pump, which causes your heart to beat faster

===============================================================

I don't get some of this.

I always believed that the heart was the blood pump of the body.

Anyway, I heard that bodybuilders that
have huge leg muscles do NOT do well with long runs. If that's true it seems to go against what was quoted.

================================================================

The Bainbridge reflex is seen in dogs, but experiment has shown that it is not as significant in primates.
There is evidence, however, that the Bainbridge reflex does occur in humans, as in after delivery of an infant...


Bainbridge reflex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
================================================================

Regardless of all this, a rule of thumb I heard many years ago went something like:

'When you're running (or cycling) you should be able to carry on a conversation without gasping for air.'

It sounds like a reasonable rule. I'll have to try it next time. (As I talk to myself {HA!}.)


- Stephen

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I went for a jog at my usual pace. I could talk without gasping for air, so obviously
I wasn't running at top speed. I don't plan to find out what my maximum heart rate is
even if I owned a cheap heart monitor. My understanding is that pushing the heart to
its maximum rate causes the risk of heart attack during exercise to spike up. If I was
a professional athlete it would be different.

My heart rate, give or take, : 160 beats per minute.
Age: between 50 and 55.
Exercise : jogging (the definition I found is, Running at a steady gentle pace

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Not what the bodies of hunters are designed for

Humans are the only animals that "jog".

Never exceeding an easy conversational pace in training guarantees only one thing - that strength and stamina will not improve.

An exercising heart rate of 160 is pretty high. A 160 HR while "jogging" at an easy conversational pace sounds worrisome.

(Having been tested and knowing that my coronary arteries are clean, heart failure during exercise is something I don't give much thought to. It's pretty common for runners to drop dead from heart attacks, but rare for cyclists. Sudden cardiac death can occur due to heartbeat irregularities in the absence of arterial blockage, so it's important to keep those electrolyte levels in balance.)

The vast majority of Americans are overfed, malnourished, prescription drug addicts. (Whoops, let's not forget overuse of alcohol!) These factors will pretty much negate the effects of any exercise program. Maybe this has something to do with the poor societal choices we are making and the decline and degeneration of our way of life.

The scientific evidence is that we are built to run. Think about this the next time you are tempted by beer and Cheez-O's:


Quoting 
He and Bramble argue that not only can humans outlast horses, but over long distances and under the right conditions, they can also outrun just about any other animal on the planet—including dogs, wolves, hyenas, and antelope, the other great endurance runners. From our abundant sweat glands to our Achilles tendons, from our big knee joints to our muscular glutei maximi, human bodies are beautifully tuned running machines. "We're loaded top to bottom with all these features, many of which don't have any role in walking," Lieberman says. Our anatomy suggests that running down prey was once a way of life that ensured hominid survival millions of years ago on the African savanna.

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/may/tramps-like-us


Last edited by Zondor; October 14th, 2012 at 03:44 PM.
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Zondor View Post
Humans are the only animals that "jog".

Never exceeding an easy conversational pace in training guarantees only one thing - that strength and stamina will not improve.

An exercising heart rate of 160 is pretty high. A 160 HR while "jogging" at an easy conversational pace sounds worrisome.

(Having been tested and knowing that my coronary arteries are clean, heart failure during exercise is something I don't give much thought to. It's pretty common for runners to drop dead from heart attacks, but rare for cyclists. Sudden cardiac death can occur due to heartbeat irregularities in the absence of arterial blockage, so it's important to keep those electrolyte levels in balance.)

The vast majority of Americans are overfed, malnourished, prescription drug addicts. (Whoops, let's not forget overuse of alcohol!) These factors will pretty much negate the effects of any exercise program. Maybe this has something to do with the poor societal choices we are making and the decline and degeneration of our way of life.

The scientific evidence is that we are built to run. Think about this the next time you are tempted by beer and Cheez-O's:



Born To Run | Human Evolution | DISCOVER Magazine

Strength and stamina can only reach a certain level anyway. We can't keep getting faster and faster.
I can't see anyone running the mile in 2 minutes, ever (without biotechnology and/or genetic engineering).
That's 30MPH.

Maybe the 160 heart rate somewhat relates to the caffeine in my system I took before the jog. Felt ok
during the jog regardless.

I posted about persistence hunting a while back, so I know about man's ability to run:



https://futures.io/off-topic/16004-do-something.html#post175956

I did come across this just now:
=====================================================================
Although many mammals sweat, few have evolved to use sweating for effective thermoregulation, humans and horses being notable exceptions.

Persistence hunting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
=====================================================================

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The Perversion of Sport by Materialistic Expdiency

An excellent commentary about the perversion of professional sports.

No, I have never used drugs (other than caffeine), but am a long time member of the largest, and one of the oldest amateur bike racing clubs in the country, several of whose members have been busted for using the same kinds of drugs that the pro's have been using.

Regarding effort levels, intense exercise is not for the purpose of winning the Golden Age Olympics. It's for the purpose of stimulating the maintenance and repair responses necessary to slow down the age related loss of lean body mass and functional capacity that most people accept as normal.

Now for the article:

Rantings on Markets, Economics and Business Strategy: USADA Findings On Lance Armstrong Doping - How The Idolatry Of Hyper-Competitiveness And Aggression Embraced By Fundamentalist Capitalist Cultures Are Creating Modern Society Collapse

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just got back into the gym 3 months ago after 3 years off. +15 pounds
No supplements, just food. I'll be running a half marathon in the Spring.
I trained for 3 years previously. Feels good to be back.
5"10" 176 lbs.

Psychology > Strategy ≥ Money

Last edited by Massive l; October 16th, 2012 at 03:59 PM.
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Too much of a good thing?


For some time it has been known that long durations of intense activity cause correspondingly high levels of oxidative stress that can be harmful. This has been acknowledged as a problem by Dr. Kenneth Cooper, the guy who invented the word and idea of "aerobics".

In addition to a diet with adequate phytochemicals and antioxidants, it might be a good idea to limit the total weekly workload. Mark Sisson is someone whose views are worth considering.


Quoting 
Last week, I made the suggestion that people interested in maintaining health and immunity while avoiding excessive oxidative stress should expend no more than 4,000 calories per week through focused exercise, a recommendation that I’ve found to be pretty sound for most of the general population.

Read more: Dear Mark: Maximum 4,000 Calories a Week of Exercise? | Mark's Daily Apple

This fits in with the kind of regimen being recommended by Dr. Mercola and others now, emphasizing a very moderate or even minimal amount of high quality activity.

I need to get back to trading one of these days.....

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