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Odds Are, It's Wrong
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Odds Are, It's Wrong

  #21 (permalink)
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I do not have any idea how this relates to my comment. I am even more amazed - as to how you cannot resist quoting the bible based on the discussion and then producing the quote.I tend towards being literal as such I never have the remotest idea what a bible quote like this means. If it is read literally it makes no sense whatsoever. As to how it is compelling with regards to weakening gravity is ineffable. James Joyce is as crytpic as they come and he would be a breeze in comparison. My historical understanding is that hebrew scholars cannot agree on the translation of 1 in every 4 words. That seems to be the consensus . That to me is a problem. I am not making fun of you. I am in a state of shock. I am not being disrespectful it just makes no sense to me at all on any level. In all sincerety , would welcome an explanation of how you got from A ( gravity) to B (bible story faith? is that it? really do not understand at all)


You wrote:

There is a tryanny of the rational mind over the dreamer in our society. Until we are open to altered states of consciousness as a legitemate modality of scientific investigation we lock our selves out of multiple doors of perception - pun intended.


it seems insane to explore , for example in the hadron particle collider, the possibility of other dimensions if you restrict your mind's ability to experience them naturally.


So you wrote about "... altered states of consciousness..." and "... the possibility of other dimensions..."
and so did I.

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  #22 (permalink)
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so that quote from the bible was about altered states of consciousness? I really did not understand the meaning. Have you ever read Julian Jaynes: The Origin of COnsciousness and the Bicameral Mind. Perhaps there is something in common with his theories and your quotes. Not a breezy read but interesting ideas.

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drago1 View Post
so that quote from the bible was about altered states of consciousness? I really did not understand the meaning. Have you ever read Julian Jaynes: The Origin of COnsciousness and the Bicameral Mind. Perhaps there is something in common with his theories and your quotes. Not a breezy read but interesting ideas.


I don't really know what "altered states of consciousness" means to different people (including you). The only way
I've heard that phrase used is in experiencing a drug-induced hallucination.
================================================================================
Then Elisha prayed and said, “O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
================================================================================

The scripture is about a great prophet, Elisha, and then his servant, seeing the reality of a different dimension.

You wrote:

My historical understanding is that hebrew scholars cannot agree on the translation of 1 in every 4 words. That seems to be the consensus . That to me is a problem.

2 Kings Chapter 6 verse 17 is above inside the equal signs. I've uploaded all 16 translations of it that I know
of in attachments (or you can just go to the link below). They are all much the same indeed. About the only thing
that stands out is that Lord is translated as "LORD or "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" depending on
who did the translation.

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, "O LORD, open his eyes so he may see." Then the LORD opened the servant's eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

I have never read The Origin of COnsciousness and the Bicameral Mind. I do very little reading of any sort though.

- Stephen

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  #24 (permalink)
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Thank you for your explanation. I think you have to really study the bible to be able to draw the same inference as you did. I clearly do not and just thought it incoherent. Since I do not read the bible I do not understand the prose.

The Illyad by Homer has many such passages and that is why I mentioned Julian Jaynes. His theory is that the corpus collasum that connects the left and right hemipheres of brain was not fully developed thousands of years ago. As a consequence the non linear right brain was informing the linear language based left brain. Hence talking to gods was a common experience. Jill Bolte Taylor's My stroke of Insight is a contemporary writing on a somewhat similar theme.

The Masoretic Text of the Old Testament Every scholar has an agenda (thesis)

I am not intending to create controversy just intellectual exchange. The linked article is quite interesting as scholarly disagreement is not always founded on intellectual integrity.- nor is science for that matter . Translating old text has other less devious problems. Nuance, metaphor, lack of linguistic equivelents and most importantly context. Could you imagine a chinese academic attempting to translate american rap music into mandarin? Even if the words word were all correct without an understanding of the nuance, slang and cultural setting it would render the translation meaningless. It could be simulataneously all right and all wrong. The nature of language is that it evolves as metaphor. This reminds of the conundrum of the Heisenberg Uncertanty Principle in physics - you can either know momentum or you can know location but you can never know both.


Last edited by drago1; November 14th, 2011 at 09:53 AM.
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drago1 View Post


I am not intending to create controversy just intellectual exchange. The linked article is quite interesting as scholarly disagreement is not always founded on intellectual integrity.- nor is science for that matter . Translating old text has other less devious problems. Nuance, metaphor, lack of linguistic equivelents and most importantly context. Could you imagine a chinese academic attempting to translate american rap music into mandarin? Even if the words word were all correct without an understanding of the nuance, slang and cultural setting it would render the translation meaningless. It could be simulataneously all right and all wrong. The nature of language is that it evolves as metaphor. This reminds of the conundrum of the Heisenberg Uncertanty Principle in physics - you can either know momentum or you can know location but you can never know both.

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, but weekdays are usually too busy to allow me to go to futures.io (formerly BMT).

I'm not quite sure where you're going here so I'll throw out some comments.

*) Generally speaking I'd say that if you picked a sentence or paragraph from the Old or New Testament at random
and looked at it in all 16 versions of the Bible I referenced, you'd find they're all translated much the same.

*) Much is known about the way people lived when the Bible was written.

*) People are people. They haven't changed.

I'm not an expert on the Bible really, but if you have some specific question about something you can ask
(and hope for the best).

- Stephen

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