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Odds Are, It's Wrong
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Odds Are, It's Wrong

  #11 (permalink)
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really LOL. thanks.

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  #12 (permalink)
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I read this book years ago. I posted about it a year ago.
Not exactly related to this topic, but
maybe someone can get something out of it. (Let me know.)

The End Of Science

Facing The Limits Of Knowledge In The Twilight Of The Scientific Age

By John Horgan

Excerpt below (italics in the original):
=================================================
If one believes in science, one must accept the possibility--even the
probability--that the great era of scientific discovery is over. By
science I mean not applied science, but science at its purest and
grandest, the primordial human quest to understand the universe
and our place in it. Further research may yield no more great
revelations or revolutions, but only incremental, diminishing returns.
=================================================

See attachments to see most of the table of contents if you wish.

This is not an easy read, but I thought it was interesting.


Wikipedia article on John Horgan including his works, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Horgan_(American_journalist)



- Stephen

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  #13 (permalink)
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stephenszpak View Post
I read this book years ago. I posted about it a year ago.
Not exactly related to this topic, but
maybe someone can get something out of it. (Let me know.)

The End Of Science

Facing The Limits Of Knowledge In The Twilight Of The Scientific Age

If you look at Economics, science has still a long way to go. Sometimes I have the impression that the scientific endeavour has not even started. All the economic theories have been falsified hundreds of times, and economists are still sticking to their wonderful theories which unfortunately are far from reality.

So let us say that Economics so far has only few characteristics of a science, as the interactions of economic agents are overly simplified and not well modeled. This science is just at the beginning, not at an end.

I also strongly disagree with the other statements. Science is just a game of evolving models judged against observations. This game is endless, as there are always possibilities to refine or improve the existing theories. But thanks for bringing up the subject.

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General comments posted to original poster or anyone.

The chapter:

The End of Chaoplexity, is interesting for a start.

Much of the book is readable on-line here:

Amazon.com: The End Of Science: Facing The Limits Of Knowledge In The Twilight Of The Scientific Age (9780553061741): John Horgan: Books

Click on:

Click to LOOK INSIDE

Attachments are from, The End of Chaoplexity.

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Science is just a game of evolving models judged against observations. This game is endless, as there are always possibilities to refine or improve the existing theories.

The author is speaking about what is called (or what he calls) pure science.
As far a medicine goes, there will be new drugs and techniques etc. coming
for a long long time. But DNA was/is discovered only once. The periodic table
only once. The knowledge the universe is expanding, only once.

Attachment is from page 24.

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  #16 (permalink)
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There is a tryanny of the rational mind over the dreamer in our society. Until we are open to altered states of consciousness as a legitemate modality of scientific investigation we lock our selves out of multiple doors of perception - pun intended.

The famous physicist Nels Bohr once proposed the three B's of scientific discovery. Bed, Bath, Bus. These are often situations in which the mind is free from left brain governor and instead liberated the mind to just simply imagine. Einstein had his visions in a dream. Others (eg. Francis Crick, Cary Mullis )with the assistance of plants or synthetic hallucinogens. Scientific discovery necessitates remaining in the agnostic camp. If you think you already know what is possible your mind is already closed to unimagined possibilites. Consider the book Flatland as a pretext.

it seems insane to explore , for example in the hadron particle collider, the possibility of other dimensions if you restrict your mind's ability to experience them naturally. It is self defeating proposition from the outset. Science as an institution is simply afraid.


Last edited by drago1; November 12th, 2011 at 10:33 AM.
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drago1 View Post

it seems insane to explore , for example in the hadron particle collider, the possibility of other dimensions if you restrict your mind's ability to experience them naturally. It is self defeating proposition from the outset. Science as an institution is simply afraid.

I don't know who it was, but about 2 weeks ago it was confirmed that the expansion of the universe
is accelerating, and this guy (a physicist I think) said that there was the possibility that gravity was
bleeding into another dimension. The expansion of the universe should be decelerating, as when one
throws a ball straight up into the air. If one throws it straight up at 40 MPH it shouldn't increase in speed
and then go 41 MPH...then eventually 100 MPH...then 800 MPH...etc.etc. Apparently the strength of gravity
is decreasing across the entire universe.

I can't resist quoting the Bible now:


8Now the king of Aram was warring against Israel; and he counseled with his servants saying, “In such and such a place shall be my camp.” 9The man of God sent word to the king of Israel saying, “Beware that you do not pass this place, for the Arameans are coming down there.” 10The king of Israel sent to the place about which the man of God had told him; thus he warned him, so that he guarded himself there, more than once or twice.

11Now the heart of the king of Aram was enraged over this thing; and he called his servants and said to them, “Will you tell me which of us is for the king of Israel?” 12One of his servants said, “No, my lord, O king; but Elisha, the prophet who is in Israel, tells the king of Israel the words that you speak in your bedroom.” 13So he said, “Go and see where he is, that I may send and take him.” And it was told him, saying, “Behold, he is in Dothan.” 14He sent horses and chariots and a great army there, and they came by night and surrounded the city.

15Now when the attendant of the man of God had risen early and gone out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was circling the city. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?” 16So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17Then Elisha prayed and said, “O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

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stephenszpak View Post
I don't know who it was, but about 2 weeks ago it was confirmed that the expansion of the universe
is accelerating, and this guy (a physicist I think) said that there was the possibility that gravity was
bleeding into another dimension. The expansion of the universe should be decelerating, as when one
throws a ball straight up into the air. If one throws it straight up at 40 MPH it shouldn't increase in speed
and then go 41 MPH...then eventually 100 MPH...then 800 MPH...etc.etc. Apparently the strength of gravity
is decreasing across the entire universe.
.

Slightly deviating from the original topic but I have to ask; Do we really know where the 'ball' is? When you throw a ball up, it doesn't automatically start at 40mph. It starts at 0,1,2,3...until it reaches it's maximum acceleration, and then it starts decreasing until it is back to 0.

So where is the 'ball'? How do we know the universe has passed it's maximum acceleration and started to decrease?

Psychology > Strategy ≥ Money
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Massive l View Post
Slightly deviating from the original topic but I have to ask; Do we really know where the 'ball' is? When you throw a ball up, it doesn't automatically start at 40mph. It starts at 0,1,2,3...until it reaches it's maximum acceleration, and then it starts decreasing until it is back to 0.

So where is the 'ball'? How do we know the universe has passed it's maximum acceleration and started to decrease?

You're right, the ball doesn't start at 40 MPH. My error.

Article here, which is only if anyone has great interest:

{also note, there are links within the link, so there is a lot of info actually}

Physics Nobel Explainer: Why Is Expanding Universe Accelerating?

Excerpts from article below for those that only have about 1 minute of time to waste:

New Nobel laureates Saul Perlmutter and Adam Riess of the U.S. and Brian Schmidt of Australia contributed to the discovery that the universe is not only expanding but also speeding up.

Until dark energy, physicists were convinced that gravity should be causing the expansion rate of the universe to slow.

"When I throw my keys up in the air, the gravity of the Earth makes them slow down and return to me," said Mario Livio, a theoretical physicist...

So far, one of the biggest challenges for dark energy researchers is marrying observations to theory.

One possibility is there is no dark energy...

But by studying the light from distant supernovae, astronomers saw that the supernovae's host galaxies are flying away from each other at increasing speed.

The trick is that no one has been able to unify the math used in quantum mechanics, which describes the physics of the very small, with the equations in general relativity, which deal with large-scale interactions.

"The two theories use two different sets of rule books, [and] we've always known that these two books are incompatible," Riess said.


It is obvious at this point that these guys have no real idea of what's going on (comment S.S.)

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stephenszpak View Post
I don't know who it was, but about 2 weeks ago it was confirmed that the expansion of the universe
is accelerating, and this guy (a physicist I think) said that there was the possibility that gravity was
bleeding into another dimension. The expansion of the universe should be decelerating, as when one
throws a ball straight up into the air. If one throws it straight up at 40 MPH it shouldn't increase in speed
and then go 41 MPH...then eventually 100 MPH...then 800 MPH...etc.etc. Apparently the strength of gravity
is decreasing across the entire universe.

I can't resist quoting the Bible now:


8Now the king of Aram was warring against Israel; and he counseled with his servants saying, “In such and such a place shall be my camp.” 9The man of God sent word to the king of Israel saying, “Beware that you do not pass this place, for the Arameans are coming down there.” 10The king of Israel sent to the place about which the man of God had told him; thus he warned him, so that he guarded himself there, more than once or twice.

11Now the heart of the king of Aram was enraged over this thing; and he called his servants and said to them, “Will you tell me which of us is for the king of Israel?” 12One of his servants said, “No, my lord, O king; but Elisha, the prophet who is in Israel, tells the king of Israel the words that you speak in your bedroom.” 13So he said, “Go and see where he is, that I may send and take him.” And it was told him, saying, “Behold, he is in Dothan.” 14He sent horses and chariots and a great army there, and they came by night and surrounded the city.

15Now when the attendant of the man of God had risen early and gone out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was circling the city. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?” 16So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 17Then Elisha prayed and said, “O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

I do not have any idea how this relates to my comment. I am even more amazed - as to how you cannot resist quoting the bible based on the discussion and then producing the quote.I tend towards being literal as such I never have the remotest idea what a bible quote like this means. If it is read literally it makes no sense whatsoever. As to how it is compelling with regards to weakening gravity is ineffable. James Joyce is as crytpic as they come and he would be a breeze in comparison. My historical understanding is that hebrew scholars cannot agree on the translation of 1 in every 4 words. That seems to be the consensus . That to me is a problem. I am not making fun of you. I am in a state of shock. I am not being disrespectful it just makes no sense to me at all on any level. In all sincerety , would welcome an explanation of how you got from A ( gravity) to B (bible story faith? is that it? really do not understand at all)


Last edited by drago1; November 13th, 2011 at 11:38 AM.
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