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What is your view on the Occupy Wall Street Protests
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What is your view on the Occupy Wall Street Protests

  #221 (permalink)
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Silver Dragon View Post
You need to expand: "The whole existence of society is to take money from each other."
The more skill and talent you have the more money you make.

Unfortunately we do not live in a meritocracy.

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  #222 (permalink)
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Silver Dragon View Post
THERE HAVE BEEN WINNERS AND LOSERS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME!! GROWUP AND GET OVER IT!! Although OWS protestors would obviously disagree with this.

SD

I think that tends to be the main psychological difference where we differ. What defines a loser? What defines a winner?

What 'rules' will be placed on these people to define winning?

The challenge that I see with 'this system' is that it is rigged. It is rigged in favor of a certain type of or group of people while rigged against those that are not in that 'class' or trajectory.

Now, can you get out of that, YES, but it takes a generation or two to TYPICALLY build real wealth and a foundation of wealth. There are those that believe the world is a zero-sum game and that if someone is to have, that someone must take or give-up etc.. I do not believe Trading to be a zero-sum as everything is through a different context of time value of money.

We are all different, none of us will convince either of us to submit and say, "You are right, I have changed my ways or my thought patterns because of what you have typed".

There just stands a great philisophical debate of what is right or fare etc.. That feeling will change or be shaped contingent upon your genetic coding, your environment and how you evolve as a human being.

Some people truly choose to not work and are 'lazy', but a great many work 10x harder than any of us would dream and yet have fewer opportunities because of race, class, educational background etc.. etc..

Those people have a lot harder ladder to climb, but who is to blame for that? Not me right? Why should I pay for them to have that or be like that? Well, because so many before me paid their dues...

The Babilonians the Sumerians, the Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Brits, Ottoman's... At the end of the day, we are all brothers and sisters. Some are worthless (like my real one's!) and some are not. I believe we must do our best to support as well and as many people as we can to guide ourselves toward utopia.

I couldn't imagine being born into Ethiopia with a mother and father with HIV/AIDS and going through a drought and drug wars.

Everyone is related, whether we like it or not. It is very easy to turn our emotions off and separate ourselves from that pain or challenge. It is really easy to just turn it off. Much like bombing and shooting and hunting for pleasure.

In my view we are all just vibrations of energy that have taken a certain form. Like if your LIVER went to WAR with KIDNEYS, we would probably think that is odd. (changed, better example)

Boy, I know I sure have changed my views on organic objects since I was a kid.

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  #223 (permalink)
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Bluemele - apologies but here is reality


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Investopedia explains Zero-Sum Game
Options and future contracts are examples of zero-sum games (excluding costs). For every person who gains on a contract, there is a counter-party who loses. Gambling is also an example of a zero-sum game.

A stock market, however, is not a zero-sum game because wealth can be created in a stock market.


Read more: Zero-Sum Game Definition

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  #224 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
I never said the objective or purpose of society is take money from each other. I said very clearly that is that is the objective of a futures trader. We go into the trading pit or electronic pit and we go to war. This is not a tennis match. That is my point .When Tarkus was waxing sentimental about entrepreneurial spirit of being a trader I am trying to shout get a grip. Your job is take money from other traders. For every winner there is an equal loser . Hence the term zero sum game.

As far as OWS I never made a single mention of that group. I really don't care about that group. There are many of them. They all have their own issues.

I know that means I am techically off topic but I was only talking about trading. Trading is not a noble calling it is a gladiators arena. Either you come to kill or you are killed. I don't enjoy it but I don't particularly like people so perhaps I am so inclined.

Please simply read the text. As far as the lofty quote about trading being about the trade or whatever and the money will come. Good luck to you with that. I am here to take your money - that is the only reason.

Trading is a microcosm of life and society. Your logic fits like it or not. Even in the real world just like trading, you either kill or be killed.... Life just like trading, using your words, is not a tennis match.

WOW.. I didnt think my quote was that lofty.. lol I have done quite well with my lofty logic, but you just keep on believing you can take my money.

SD

nosce te ipsum

You make your own opportunities in life.
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  #225 (permalink)
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I apologize Silver Dragon for poor choice of words

Silver Dragon congratulations on your success. I said my objective is to take your money and I hope your objective is just as clear. I apologize for my cynical remark. My objective to take your money is a mission statement - nothing personal. PLUS I REALLY DESPISE THOMAS HOBBES.

In my first boxing match many years ago I had a clear opening to land a straight right hand. My opponent was completely exposed. I pulled my punch because of all my stupid years of point karate and pulling punches. lots of talk of flow and process in karate class but it did not help me in boxing. I had no killer instinct

My opponent came over to me after the fight and told me I should have knocked him out. Don't worry about me he said I understand the risk. I would have done it to you.


Last edited by drago1; November 5th, 2011 at 07:33 PM.
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  #226 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
Please register on futures.io to view futures trading content such as post attachment(s), image(s), and screenshot(s).

Investopedia explains Zero-Sum Game
Options and future contracts are examples of zero-sum games (excluding costs). For every person who gains on a contract, there is a counter-party who loses. Gambling is also an example of a zero-sum game.

A stock market, however, is not a zero-sum game because wealth can be created in a stock market.


Read more: Zero-Sum Game Definition

Of course, from a general sense than everything is zero sum. I don't really want to debate this as it doesn't do any of us any good. In my opinion it really isn't, so you can accept that, or you can not. I don't care.

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  #227 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
Tarkus I don't think that anytrader with a brain - backed or not backed by the government financially- could give a rat's ass about the glory of entrepreneurial spirit. Trader/lawyer/ accountant/politician/ - all pretty repulsive and I am in the group. At one time we served a function but not really anymore - eat or be eaten. We are predators or we are prey - and unless you keep that in mind you will quickly be the latter. There is nothing noble about this business. Recall the language - on the floor of the exchange it is the trading pit.
Our whole existence as traders is finding ways to take money from each other. Zero sum game. No glory - no real function - create nothing. Take a look in the mirror - if you are trader - this is your life. I need a valium now.

When I mentioned "entrepreneurial spirit" I was alluding to the facet of taking responsibility for outcomes based on one's own decisions. An entrepreneur rises or falls on his/her decisions.

Zero-sum game may be in the short-term economically, but as Silver Dragon said - you need to expand your thinking.

When you started trading did you use a charting package? If so, did you investigate the programming language it uses to design things to help you see what you wanted to see more clearly? Did learning the coding process enhance your logic ability to think concretely about your ideas? Does that logic process carry over into how you view the arguments of others, looking for logic flaws in their position? Do you expand that thinking process out to other areas of your life?

There can be a host of personal and positive ancillary effects. If you think only in terms of economics, perhaps it is limited, but there is always someone on the opposite side of your trade, so it is a mutual contract. It is only when one side can cheat (like with insider info) that the contract is not legitimate.

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  #228 (permalink)
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Thank you for your thoughtful response. When I started trading there were no charts. You calculated everything by hand and knew important levels because you were so close to the numbers.

Trading was over the phone to a broker at $60 a round turn. Stops were a mile away. Weekends were psychological torture ( especially coffee trades )

I thought at that time that as a small speculator I performed some function in the market. Taking the other side of risk for hedging commercial traders. I knew the information flow was asymetrical and not in my favour but I still did allright.

Now I see the market as a meaningless casino. Disconnected from people and fundamerntals Without a relationship to value or function. hence my cynical view of this business.

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  #229 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
Thank you for your thoughtful response. When I started trading there were no charts. You calculated everything by hand and knew important levels because you were so close to the numbers.

Trading was over the phone to a broker at $60 a round turn. Stops were a mile away. Weekends were psychological torture ( especially coffee trades )

I thought at that time that as a small speculator I performed some function in the market. Taking the other side of risk for hedging commercial traders. I knew the information flow was asymetrical and not in my favour but I still did allright.

Now I see the market as a meaningless casino. Disconnected from people and fundamerntals Without a relationship to value or function. hence my cynical view of this business.

Since the market is different things to different people, it can be all those at the same time. Unfortunately it has been forced to take on an additional characteristic in the last several years.

1 - a hedging process
2 - a casino
3 - a casino where the biggest players can make everyone else pay for their bad choices.

1 & 2 are ok. 3 is not.

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  #230 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
[I]And as and aside. Josh if you are out there still reading these posts. Pot is good for you - . The science is there to prove it and when you thought you were insulting me I could only laugh. If you only knew the half of it.

Have you ever met a truly ambitious, eager, productive pot smoker? Perhaps they exist, but by and large smoking pot causes the smoker to feel as if he's brilliant and creative, but in reality he's just another lazy pothead. I don't think marijuana should be illegal by the way; I'm pretty close to libertarian, and if people want to kill their own brain cells, far be it from me to stand in their way.

You think smoking pot helps your ability to concentrate, to focus, or that the smoke helps your lungs? Please, show me some reputable "science" that proves that marijuana is good for you. I don't doubt that it has some medical benefits, for sure. But how do these benefits compare with the drawbacks?


drago1 View Post
Now I see the market as a meaningless casino. Disconnected from people and fundamerntals Without a relationship to value or function. hence my cynical view of this business.

Ironic how you laugh at me for my view on smoking pot, yet what you wrote here only validates what I said. Smoking pot will lead to this type of attitude I'm sure. You just don't care do you drago? You can't make money and so screw the system, right? You should lay off smoking for a few weeks and see if your view towards this business changes to something which will actually help you. I'm just trying to put it in a straightforward way so that it's blatantly clear to your drug-abused mind--read what you wrote above, and ask if this is how we all should think, and if it's helpful to your life, and if you would recommend this viewpoint to others? Is this what smoking pot has done for you?

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