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What is your view on the Occupy Wall Street Protests
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What is your view on the Occupy Wall Street Protests

  #211 (permalink)
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  #212 (permalink)
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Quoting 
"All of that may be true - but think about it from the opposite view for a moment.

That means that the system is set up to actually FAVOR large (gov't back-stopped) financial companies creating more crisis because their payout remains asymetrical - all upside, no downside. Downside gets passed-on to Main Street. Government sucks up the losses.

By that reckoning, they should increase leverage, because the next bailout will also be to save Main Street.

You can assign a name to a system like that, but I don't think it would be Capitalism."

I agree - the whole idea of having "too big to fail" is dangerous and not in the spirit of capitalism at all. If I could wave a magic wand, I would have everything trade on exchanges - where prices are transparent and rules for collateral are clear and unambiguous. Instead, what we have are OTC markets dominated by a few large players who make markets as they see fit - it is not the most liquid or most competitive solution at all.

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  #213 (permalink)
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A stupid question....


I just sent a message to my US Senator asking why Bob Rubin, Larry Summers and Phil Gramm aren't in jail for their illegal, destructive actions that caused destruction dwarfing that caused by our friend Bernie, who is in for 150 years.

Too Big to Jail | Truthout

Based on Obama's approach to financial regulation, Bernie should now be Treasury Secretary rather than a permanent Federal guest. You can't really say that Timmie's ethics are any higher than Bernie's. Does this make YOU want to protest anything? Especially since the Republican choices, with the possible exception of Ron Paul, would be WORSE.

Sorry Mickey, 99.99% of the mice are drowning. Milton Friedman was one of the biggest jackasses and lying whores of all time. There, I said it. Chicago School economics is a malevolent religious cult. The only substance behind it is "faith based" promotion and justification of control of the world by banksters. His prescriptions got us to where we are now. Is that a good place?

You can find some HONEST economists here: http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/

There are other things going on behind the scenes in plain sight. Economic stresses are a reflection of a larger instability due to environmental degradation and resource depletion, so all of this may be water under the bridge anyway. Are any of you familiar with, or members of this Club?*
ClubOrlov: Stages of Collapse Revised: “Joined at the Wallet”

Yes, I know. I should be doing less ranting here and more in my trading journal. Maybe soon..... Has anyone seen my recently posted indicators?


Last edited by Zondor; November 4th, 2011 at 08:16 PM.
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  #214 (permalink)
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Zondor, double cheers on the Milton Friedman comment.


Last edited by drago1; November 5th, 2011 at 10:38 AM.
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  #215 (permalink)
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This too shall pass

Our current system is doomed regardless of the presence or absence of any protest movements. The further the can is kicked down the road, the more precipitous and catastrophic will be the inevitable collapse.

charles hugh smith-The Collapse of Our Corrupt, Predatory, Pathological Financial System Is Necessary and Positive


The Chicago Boys have the blood of hundreds of thousands on their hands. You can thank them for the Death Squads of Central and South America, for starters.

Did you ever notice that some of the most rabid right wing nut jobs were left wing Stalinist nut jobs when they were kids? This transition is so common that there is a name for it. Think of the Podhoretz and Kristol families. Another good example is one of the biggest trouble makers and agitators of my own high school class, who was rather poorly regarded by his peers at the time.

Simplistic black and white thinkers tend to congregate at the extremes of the thought spectrum where they promote ideas that are based on religious, rather than logical, reasoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Muravchik


Quoting 
"Josh Muravchik’s father, Manny, eighty-five-years-old, breathing through oxygen tubes, [was] handing out his own two-page Xeroxed affirmation of socialism." "Manny let the reader know that his own life, and that of Josh’s mother, would be impossible today absent the very sort of anti-market reforms—Medicare, rent-controlled apartments—for which they’d worked while Josh was still a pisher and toward which he sounded at best ambivalent today." "Father told son that if there was utopian impulse to be feared, it was that messianic laissez-faire nonsense he must have picked up once he’d left home. You think your mother and I could survive in your perfect world, Mr. Capitalist Shill?[5]



Last edited by Zondor; November 5th, 2011 at 02:39 PM.
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  #216 (permalink)
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In addition to being degruntled former socialists , they (neo conservatives), are almost exclusively chicken-hawks. (I think Donald Rumsfeld is one of the few exceptions. )War mongerers all somehow managed to avoid combat duty in Vietnam regardless of their political stripes.

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  #217 (permalink)
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furytrader View Post
I agree - the whole idea of having "too big to fail" is dangerous and not in the spirit of capitalism at all. If I could wave a magic wand, I would have everything trade on exchanges - where prices are transparent and rules for collateral are clear and unambiguous. Instead, what we have are OTC markets dominated by a few large players who make markets as they see fit - it is not the most liquid or most competitive solution at all.

One of the reasons for all the irrational noise is that the people/companies that have the down-side of their action back-stopped by the government are not actually "traders" in the common use of the word. A trader can get either end of the stick depending on his own decisions.

What the people/companies that ARE back-stopped by the government are doing is hiding behind the legitimate traders, hoping to get a shine off the reflected glory of entrepreneurial spirit just by standing in the crowd.

Unfortunately, most OWS folks probably don't understand that, so there are certain to be some knuckleheads who shout more than think.

But, the simplest reply would be something like, "My losses are not back-stopped by the government. Your grievence is with ______." (Fill in the blank with people/companies that ARE back-stopped).

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  #218 (permalink)
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Tarkus I don't think that anytrader with a brain - backed or not backed by the government financially- could give a rat's ass about the glory of entrepreneurial spirit. Trader/lawyer/ accountant/politician/ - all pretty repulsive and I am in the group. At one time we served a function but not really anymore - eat or be eaten. We are predators or we are prey - and unless you keep that in mind you will quickly be the latter. There is nothing noble about this business. Recall the language - on the floor of the exchange it is the trading pit.
Our whole existence as traders is finding ways to take money from each other. Zero sum game. No glory - no real function - create nothing. Take a look in the mirror - if you are trader - this is your life. I need a valium now.


Last edited by drago1; November 5th, 2011 at 04:47 PM.
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  #219 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
Tarkus I don't think that anytrader with a brain - backed or not backed by the government financially- could give a rat's ass about the glory of entrepreneurial spirit. Trader/lawyer/ accountant/politician/ - all pretty repulsive and I am in the group. At one time we served a function but not really anymore - eat or be eaten.

Our whole existence as traders is finding ways to take money from each other. Zero sum game. No glory - no real function - create nothing. Take a look in the mirror - if you are trader - this is your life. I need a valium now.

You need to expand: "The whole existence of society is to take money from each other."

Companies make products to sell to other companies and to the consumer. The consumer works for the companies who make the products which in turns gives them money to buy products. The more skill and talent you have the more money you make. The better your company is at making products the consumers want the more money they will make. The people who participate in this are part of the "Occupy the Workforce" movement.

This by itself works quite well. The problem arises when the government wants to take the money the companies and consumers took from each other and call it "fair share" and then give it to people who have not contributed to the process. Or in the in the case of the protestors who are consumers, they want to get their money for nothing because they feel life is not fair! The goverment and protestors have a flawed view of the world. They believe they can keep taking and taking and all will be right with the world. The problem arises when there is nothing left to take or the people who make the products say fuck it and take thier products and money and go home. What then? Where will the money and products come from? I guess you could do what one protestor suggested and print your own money. lol

At some point we have started punishing people for succeeding. Drago, I think you pointed out in another thread that 90% of the people fail at what they do or just give up. At what point did it become the responsibility of the 10% to take care of the 90%? This is crazy!! You want money, house, a car? Then work for it!!! Become part of the solution not part of the problem. Just because you were born does not give you the right to someone elses hard earned money. LIFE IS NOT FAIR! THERE HAVE BEEN WINNERS AND LOSERS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME!! GROWUP AND GET OVER IT!! Although OWS protestors would obviously disagree with this.

SD

nosce te ipsum

You make your own opportunities in life.
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  #220 (permalink)
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I never said the objective or purpose of society is take money from each other. I said very clearly that is that is the objective of a futures trader. We go into the trading pit or electronic pit and we go to war. This is not a tennis match. That is my point .When Tarkus was waxing sentimental about entrepreneurial spirit of being a trader I am trying to shout get a grip. Your job is take money from other traders. For every winner there is an equal loser . Hence the term zero sum game.

As far as OWS I never made a single mention of that group. I really don't care about that group. There are many of them. They all have their own issues.

I know that means I am techically off topic but I was only talking about trading. Trading is not a noble calling it is a gladiators arena. Either you come to kill or you are killed. I don't enjoy it but I don't particularly like people so perhaps I am so inclined.

Please simply read the text. As far as the lofty quote about trading being about the trade or whatever and the money will come. Good luck to you with that. I am here to take your money - that is the only reason. Good trading to you.


Last edited by drago1; November 5th, 2011 at 05:53 PM.
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