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What is your view on the Occupy Wall Street Protests
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What is your view on the Occupy Wall Street Protests

  #201 (permalink)
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One of the problems with OWS is a vagueness in direction.

A trader (without insider info) has to take responsibility for his/her trades - and either succeed or goes bust.

The easiest reply to anyone accusing otherwise is to say "I never got a government or backdoor (a la AIG) bailout." It is (or should be) those people and companies that the anger is directed toward. A generalization beyond that is ignorance.

The MERS/robo-signing is probably one of the more serious transgressions by the banks because it has the ability to destroy property rights. Without clear transfer of title, there is no real legal ownership, as the legal case in Massachusetts showed. You can buy a house, pay for it and think you own it, but because the bank did not handle the historical paperwork properly, you don't really own it. Getting title insurance on a purchase would be a bit of a stickler too. The banks have to follow a legal process in that fiasco, or the Law goes to the highest bidder.

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  #202 (permalink)
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bankster poetry recital

Good video, ZT. Now I think I finally know something, and I don't feel like smiling anymore.

Tarkus, why do you think the "Justice Department" is pressuring the States Attorneys General to make a settlement with the banksters for a pittance, in exchange for a complete release from any CIVIL and CRIMINAL liability? That's OUTRAGEOUS.

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  #203 (permalink)
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Zondor View Post
Good video, ZT. Now I think I finally know something, and I don't feel like smiling anymore.

Ha.....nice one.....just give it another moment...

There's a mention in the video of "from Gordon to David" so it's a UK reference, but we get the idea.
It's difficult for me to comment on what's happening in the US.
It's good to hear peoples thoughts via this thread (thanks).
Looking at the equivalents through Europe, whilst on the same general theme, I think are of a different tone.

PS:
If "Ming The Merciless" can give us a smile, there's hope for us all.....

Cheers

Every moment I wake up I realize I know nothing, and then I smile...

Last edited by zt379; November 4th, 2011 at 12:19 AM.
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  #204 (permalink)
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You are a slave in a prison you cannot see, touch or smell.

Excellent video ZT. Morpheus could not have said it any better. Time for everyone to wake up. History is and has always been written by the victors. And I 'll have another red pill please.

And as and aside. Josh if you are out there still reading these posts. Pot is good for you - . The science is there to prove it and when you thought you were insulting me I could only laugh. If you only knew the half of it. Pot smokers however are not easily herded into the mindless consumer camp. They instead are herded into jail. Ironically, the largest working class union in California is the prison guards union. They lobbied on behalf of the three strikes and your out legislation. Job security. Talk about Stockholm syndrome or what. And now congress wants to take anti drug laws even further.

The House Judiciary Committee passed a bill on 10/09/11 that would make it a federal crime for U.S. residents to discuss or plan activities on foreign soil that, if carried out in the U.S., would violate the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) -- even if the planned activities are legal in the countries where they're carried out. H.R. 313, the "Drug Trafficking Safe Harbor Elimination Act of 2011," is sponsored by Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas), and allows prosecutors to bring conspiracy charges against anyone who discusses, plans or advises someone else to engage in any activity that violates the CSA, the massive federal law that prohibits drugs like marijuana and strictly regulates prescription medication. The thought police have arrived.

"Dissent, is the greatest form of patriotism". Thomas Jefferson.

Lets hope we never lose that freedom.


Last edited by drago1; November 4th, 2011 at 08:10 AM.
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  #205 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
And as and aside. Josh if you are out there still reading these posts. Pot is good for you - . The science is there to prove it and when you thought you were insulting me I could only laugh. If you only knew the half of it. Pot smokers however are not easily herded into the mindless consumer camp. They instead are herded into jail. Ironically, the largest working class union in California is the prison guards union. They lobbied on behalf of the three strikes and your out legislation. Job security. Talk about Stockholm syndrome or what. And now congress wants to take anti drug laws even further.

Pot is for the unwashed masses! One should rather cleanse the "doors of perception"!

LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug?

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  #206 (permalink)
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I agree and disagree Lornz. High THC content cannibus (30%) can be pretty door rattling. I am not sure the synthetics have quite the same depth of experience as plant entheogens. Either way , definitely resets your compass and we all need that once in a while. Thanks for your comments. Cheers.

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  #207 (permalink)
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"Btw FuryTrader, do you really think futures traders like you and ME are part of the tiny sliver of the upper hundredths of the top 1% who have been pulling all the strings that led to our economic collapse? That OWS is going to come after us because WE are parasites? As a trader, why do you think you would be held responsible for revolving door corruption, and systemic control fraud in the TBTF banks? Why should OWS have anything against you/me? WE don't matter. We are part of the 99%, or more accurately, the 99.99%."

Just because you're not a multimillionaire trader (yet) doesn't mean that you're not (in their eyes) a willing participant of a corrupt system that puts self-interest over altruism, speculation over "honest work" (whatever they deem that to be), and needlessly introduces risk into the economy. It's not a question of scale. It's a question of intent and motivation. Whether you're trading a 1 lot or 500 lots, it's all the same to them. Try explaining what you do to the typical OWSer and see what their response is.

Finally, do you honestly believe that there is some shadowy cabal of bankers, politicians, traders and others who deliberately "pulled the strings" to lead to an economic collapse? Really?

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  #208 (permalink)
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Responding to Tarkus ...


Quoting 
"A trader (without insider info) has to take responsibility for his/her trades - and either succeed or goes bust.

The easiest reply to anyone accusing otherwise is to say "I never got a government or backdoor (a la AIG) bailout." It is (or should be) those people and companies that the anger is directed toward. A generalization beyond that is ignorance."

Do you think that every bank that was forced to take money from the US Government in 2008 actually needed it? No - in fact, there were banks that didn't want money from the US Treasury but Hank Paulson forced them to take it. Why? Because in the time of crisis, we had gone beyond the level of "Bank XYZ is in trouble" - instead, we were at the point where the viability of entire system had been called into doubt. By shoring up the entire system, the government attempted to restore confidence to market participants. And as a trader, you're part of that "system" so you, in effect, received a bailout. Whether you wanted it or not, and whether you needed it or not.

Another way to look at it is this: let's say that the US Treasury was right about the systemic risk but didn't force banks to take US capital ... and let's say the system collapsed. Counterparties failed, exchange clearing houses failed, and all the financial markets froze up. As a trader, you would be affected by that, right? The fact that this didn't happen ostensibly because the US government "bailed out the banks" means that, indirectly, you were bailed out too.

It also means that the Main Street was bailed out as well. When I look at the placards of the OWSers who say, "The banks got their bailouts, what about mine?" I have to laugh - believe me, if all of the major banks in the US had failed, as regulators feared, the distress would have traveled far beyond Wall Street, and the quality of life in this country and around the world would be a lot lower than it is now.

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  #209 (permalink)
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Furytrader, regulators are pathological liars. I really think the best thing that could have happened is that this whole facade came crashing down and we started from what remains. Germany managed to recover and flourish and it was blown to bits after WWII. Americans are bright and resilient people. don.t sell them short. Yes it will be painful but that is the always the problem with any false high - the trip down is a bitch. There is also a long history of threats to society that never panned out to be true - Vietnam was greatest threat to humanity and Iraq WMDs are two that come to mind. So who really knows what would have happend?

So either way we managed to kick the can down the road for a little while longer. I think the real bail out the banks got was suspension of mark to market accounting. The authorization to lie about their true solvency. That was when the market turned around. Our day of reckoning will happen inevitably and with all this nonsense in Europe that changes by the minute it could be sooner than we think. The longer this goes on - the more painful it will be.

And with regard to an older post. Prosecutions in my mind means jail time from a trial and jury. Paying corporate fines really does not amount to much in terms of curbing illegal behaviour especially if it is a fraction of what you stole - Angelo Mosilo for example. I admit to having an unfair posting advantage time wise - I cannot work without access to my trading account.


Last edited by drago1; November 4th, 2011 at 11:33 AM.
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  #210 (permalink)
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furytrader View Post
Do you think that every bank that was forced to take money from the US Government in 2008 actually needed it? No - in fact, there were banks that didn't want money from the US Treasury but Hank Paulson forced them to take it. Why? Because in the time of crisis, we had gone beyond the level of "Bank XYZ is in trouble" - instead, we were at the point where the viability of entire system had been called into doubt. By shoring up the entire system, the government attempted to restore confidence to market participants. And as a trader, you're part of that "system" so you, in effect, received a bailout. Whether you wanted it or not, and whether you needed it or not.

Another way to look at it is this: let's say that the US Treasury was right about the systemic risk but didn't force banks to take US capital ... and let's say the system collapsed. Counterparties failed, exchange clearing houses failed, and all the financial markets froze up. As a trader, you would be affected by that, right? The fact that this didn't happen ostensibly because the US government "bailed out the banks" means that, indirectly, you were bailed out too.

It also means that the Main Street was bailed out as well. When I look at the placards of the OWSers who say, "The banks got their bailouts, what about mine?" I have to laugh - believe me, if all of the major banks in the US had failed, as regulators feared, the distress would have traveled far beyond Wall Street, and the quality of life in this country and around the world would be a lot lower than it is now.


All of that may be true - but think about it from the opposite view for a moment.

That means that the system is set up to actually FAVOR large (gov't back-stopped) financial companies creating more crisis because their payout remains asymetrical - all upside, no downside. Downside gets passed-on to Main Street. Government sucks up the losses.

By that reckoning, they should increase leverage, because the next bailout will also be to save Main Street.

You can assign a name to a system like that, but I don't think it would be Capitalism.

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