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What is your view on the Occupy Wall Street Protests
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What is your view on the Occupy Wall Street Protests

  #181 (permalink)
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Retro View Post
In one word - Anarchists! There is no need for any redistribution of cash or debt - I believe in one tax bracket for all.

But you realize, that the tax system is there to allow politicians the ability to garner votes by promising everyone something, both rich AND poor.

If there was simply one tax bracket, FOR EVERYONE that earns an income, that ability to shuffle money to and from people would no longer exist. Politicians would in essence, be giving up a large portion of their power. This will always be a tough thing for a politician to do.

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  #182 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
So Stop shopping. Put your money in a local bank or a safe in your house. Cancel you cable tv. Withdraw from the system. If anything buy local and not big box.

I'll bet that you are typing this on a computer you bought at a national chain, with money from your credit or debit card, using internet from your cable or DSL provider. Am I right? How about this -- why don't you withdraw yourself from "the system" and see how well you can do in "Moronerica" all by your lonesome, or pull a few hippies in with you to keep you company and you can all smoke dope and talk about "the man." How can a trader even think garbage like this? If you trade, you're part of "the system," bro. A better idea--wear a t-shirt that says "I'm a stock trader" and walk around in the OWS camp and see how it works out for you.

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  #183 (permalink)
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cedar View Post
Two words: social justice

What would a world where social justice is implemented look like to you, in a nutshell?

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  #184 (permalink)
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josh View Post
What would a world where social justice is implemented look like to you, in a nutshell?

Good question. Since the term "Social Justice" inherently relies upon the whims of whoever is in power.

I'd like to have a picture painted for me of what the implementation of social justice would look like.

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  #185 (permalink)
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josh View Post
I'll bet that you are typing this on a computer you bought at a national chain, with money from your credit or debit card, using internet from your cable or DSL provider. Am I right? How about this -- why don't you withdraw yourself from "the system" and see how well you can do in "Moronerica" all by your lonesome, or pull a few hippies in with you to keep you company and you can all smoke dope and talk about "the man." How can a trader even think garbage like this? If you trade, you're part of "the system," bro. A better idea--wear a t-shirt that says "I'm a stock trader" and walk around in the OWS camp and see how it works out for you.


Well Josh you certainly missed my point. But thanks for noticing I am on the internet cause I wondered where I was being all absorbed smoking pot and stuff. I digress. We agree perhaps many illegal acts were committed by banks with aid of politicians and were not dealt with through the justice system? Perhaps we agree that peaceful protest is preferable to violent protest? Regardless of the issue. That we hope for a future with more opportunity for the next generation and not a legacy of debt? That without of rule of law we have no hope . Of course I exist in the system!! My point is that I have no other power of protest than to withdraw even if it is a pain in the ass. Love to read your solutions versus lobbing insults. The bro part was really uncalled for. But perhaps we can go together to OWS and wear t shirts that read I am stock trader. Except mine will have to read "I am futures trader whose account is in limbo because MF Global dipped into customer accounts to cover their losses on their own trades."


Last edited by drago1; November 1st, 2011 at 06:53 PM.
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  #186 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
My point is that I have no other power of protest than to withdraw even if it is a pain in the ass. Love to read your solutions versus lobbing insults. The bro part was really uncalled for.

Solution to what? That's the question and the fundamental issue. You, by your comments, think that the problem is "rich people." That's where our viewpoints diverge.

I think the problem lies with those in power, who set the laws of the land, and who appoint those who judge and interpret the laws of the land. I believe the solution is to go to the ballot box and vote for those who will bring about the type of ideals you desire.

You believe the problem lies with those who have money, regardless of how they have earned it. You believe the solution is to create a system where those people are not allowed to have that much money. Isn't that right? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

I believe that the real problem is those in power who play to those poor who are ignorant of their own self-worth, and who tell them how poor they are, and how much at a disadvantage they are to the "evil rich," and who promise to take care of them if only they put them in power. These politicians care nothing about the poor. If they cared for them, they would give them a vision of what they could become if they stopped blaming others for their poor state, worked hard, and expected more from themselves. Am I saying all poor people are lazy? Of course not. But when poor people blame their own problems on others, particularly those who have money, it's a glaring sign that their focus is in the wrong place if they are to be successful. Some politicians play to this tendency of humans to blame others for their own circumstances and problems, and as a result we get people who want to bring down others who have done what it takes to be successful, rather than focusing on their own great potential.

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  #187 (permalink)
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Josh, it is really disengenuous or naive to suggest that rich people - ALL people - do not lobby on their own behalf. That is reality. We all wish we could do it. I have nothing against people having enormous wealth. I really could not care less either way.

I will never sit at the dinner table with Warren Buffet, Jaime Dimon or Timothy Geithner. My one vote will never stack up against that kind of connection to influence. It is reality. If they play by the rules that you and I have to then God love em and good luck to them all. If they don't - then its off to the tower for em like the rest of us.

Democracy is a great idea but it really is a grand illusion. The prophet of the neo conservatives in America is writer Leo Strauss. He reiterated and embraced the platonic idea of myth of nation and the noble lie. The masses he believed are too stupid to make decisions so a fear of a threatening other is coalescing mechanism. These are his words not mine. This protocol has been a model for centuries.

Crony Capitalism was largely responsible for the disonance that ultimately led to the civil war. Remember the infamous Tarrif of Abominations that forced the south to buy machinery from the north versus less expensively from Britain. States rights and free markets versus top down henry clay style authority. Jefferson versus Hamilton. This tune has been playing along time and it is humming again across the county. You have to love it I think. And no - I am resoundingly not a communist. All communist governments were facist anways.

There is a funny story I heard about the discussions between the Americans and Soviets during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Tension was so high that the moderator suggested each side tell a joke. The USSR rep began: In capitalist system man exploits man, in the Soviet system it is the exact opposite. Aint it the truth.


Last edited by drago1; November 1st, 2011 at 08:21 PM.
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  #188 (permalink)
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I am an idealist in one sense though. I am probably much older than you so please indulge me for a second.
I am Canadian and my father worked in the US as we lived on a border city. To me , made in America on a label was the most prestigious sign of quaility and status. Made in Japan was metaphor for junk.
We have a culture today that has little respect for quality , only price . Everything is disposable. I don't have a clue how we turn that one around.

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  #189 (permalink)
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drago1 View Post
I am an idealist in one sense though. I am probably much older than you so please indulge me for a second.
I am Canadian and my father worked in the US as we lived on a border city. To me , made in America on a label was the most prestigious sign of quaility and status. Made in Japan was metaphor for junk.
We have a culture today that has little respect for quality , only price . Everything is disposable. I don't have a clue how we turn that one around.

Everybody wants a simple answer when there is none. But it doesn't help that the media doesn't discuss the problems honestly or simply panders to the "guest" they have on their show.

For instance, the media would use the phrase "the subprime crises", when in reality it was "the derivatives of the subprime loans crises". U.S. GDP was ~$13 trillion in 2008. How much was all the subprime loans put together? No where near that amount. So what crashed the U.S. AND the world economy put together? The derivatives created from the loans. Who created the derivatives and why so much of it? See any in the media ask that question? No.

After that it spins off into an argument that we are overpaying teachers. Whatever....

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  #190 (permalink)
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Eyewitness account - Oakland



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BL: Well, there were kids who were living in the camp, so they were further in. Make no doubt about it, this was a military type operation, the way they moved in. It harkened back to old footage I had seen of Nazi Germany where you know you had the Nazis, the SS going in and picking up innocent people. It had that tenor. And even the helicopters, and the lights, and the loud speaker, all those were all intended to create panic and terror for the people inside, and it was totally uncalled for.

DB: And how were the cops dressed and say a little bit more about how they were acting.

BL: It was something like out of a Star Wars movie except instead of being in white they were all in black. You know they were all in riot gear, you know with the visors, they looked like automatons, that they just moved in, in a line.


What the Cops Really Did in Oakland Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

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