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Scattered thoughts...
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Scattered thoughts...

  #131 (permalink)
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Surly View Post
just a quickie here - been on road for last two weeks so missed all this discussion. Just catching up....

Lornz - if you have interest in OCD, check this book out - You are not your brain. Jeffrey Schwartz is an interesting cat - also see this paper of his on quantum mech and consciousness: http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~stapp/PTB6.pdf

Good to see you back, @Surly!

He's been mentioned a few times already. I came across him nearly 10 years ago, he's a prominent figure within the OCD community. It's an interesting concept, and, in my opinion, a very interesting look at the role of consciousness. One could say that it makes us architects of our own mind. Or maybe it would be better to say that we are programmers of our biological operating system. Yeah, I think I like that one better. (TM and (C))!


Last edited by Lornz; April 13th, 2012 at 05:39 PM. Reason: I'm afraid Surly did not get my joke
 
  #132 (permalink)
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I apologize for the non sequitur, but I must:

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln

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  #133 (permalink)
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@Fat Tails, your post made me think of this:

Acid trip 1

Nine drawings

These 9 drawings were done by an artist under the influence of LSD -- part of a test conducted by the US government during it's dalliance with psychotomimetic drugs in the late 1950's. The artist was given a dose of LSD 25 and free access to an activity box full of crayons and pencils. His subject is the medico that jabbed him.

First drawing is done 20 minutes after the first dose (50ug)

An attending doctor observes - Patient chooses to start drawing with charcoal.

The subject of the experiment reports - 'Condition normal... no effect from the drug yet'.

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85 minutes after first dose and 20 minutes after a second dose has been administered (50ug + 50ug)

The patient seems euphoric.

'I can see you clearly, so clearly. This... you... it's all ... I'm having a little trouble controlling this pencil. It seems to want to keep going.'

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2 hours 30 minutes after first dose.

Patient appears very focus on the business of drawing.

'Outlines seem normal, but very vivid - everything is changing colour. My hand must follow the bold sweep of the lines. I feel as if my consciousness is situated in the part of my body that's now active - my hand, my elbow... my tongue'.

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2 hours 32 minutes after first dose.

Patient seems gripped by his pad of paper.

'I'm trying another drawing. The outlines of the model are normal, but now those of my drawing are not. The outline of my hand is going weird too. It's not a very good drawing is it? I give up - I'll try again...'


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2 hours 35 minutes after first dose.

Patient follows quickly with another drawing.

'I'll do a drawing in one flourish... without stopping... one line, no break!'

Upon completing the drawing the patient starts laughing, then becomes startled by something on the floor.


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2 hours 45 minutes after first dose.

Patient tries to climb into activity box, and is generally agitated - responds slowly to the suggestion he might like to draw some more. He has become largely none verbal.

'I am... everything is... changed... they're calling... your face... interwoven... who is...' Patient mumbles inaudibly to a tune (sounds like 'Thanks for the memory). He changes medium to Tempera.


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4 hours 25 minutes after first dose.

Patient retreated to the bunk, spending approximately 2 hours lying, waving his hands in the air. His return to the activity box is sudden and deliberate, changing media to pen and water colour.

'This will be the best drawing, Like the first one, only better. If I'm not careful I'll lose control of my movements, but I won't, because I know. I know' - (this saying is then repeated many times).

Patient makes the last half-a-dozen strokes of the drawing while running back and forth across the room.



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5 hours 45 minutes after first dose.

Patient continues to move about the room, intersecting the space in complex variations. It's an hour and a half before he settles down to draw again - he appears over the effects of the drug.

'I can feel my knees again, I think it's starting to wear off. This is a pretty good drawing - this pencil is mighty hard to hold' - (he is holding a crayon).


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8 hours after first dose.

Patient sits on bunk bed. He reports the intoxication has worn off except for the occational distorting of our faces. We ask for a final drawing which he performs with little enthusiasm.

'I have nothing to say about this last drawing, it is bad and uninteresting, I want to go home now.'


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I was unsure of the validity of the experiment, but according to 3 Myths And 8 True Stories About LSD it is actually true.


Last edited by Lornz; April 13th, 2012 at 03:35 PM.
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  #134 (permalink)
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Those drawings reminded me of Pushwagner's (Pushwagner | Home page) Soft City. He's done LSD a few times, too...

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Soft City was a collaboration with writer Axel Jensen (Axel Jensen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). I actually think that Axel Jensen was the real " The Most Interesting Man Alive". I recommended reading a book about him, he actually did it all.

If you like the Soft City art, I recommend reading Epp. It's about conformity, and quite enjoyable for free thinkers.

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  #135 (permalink)
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I actually found video footage of another drawing experiment. He cries of joy at the end:




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  #136 (permalink)
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Deucalion View Post
Getting deeper into the depth of material and the enormity of what is potentially at hand here.

Brain Plasticity: How learning changes your brain | SharpBrains

Amazon.com: The Brain That Changes Itself: Stories of Personal Triumph from the Frontiers of Brain Science (Null) (9780143113102): Norman Doidge: Books

Both sharper brains and this book seem to resonate with Colvin's thoughts. Imagine combining the two, to sharpen your skills and directly impact your discretionary decision making process......Lornz, I salute you again for introducing neuroplasticity to us ignorami (is that a word?)

The n-feedback mechanism on demonstrated results: New Study Supports Neurofeedback Treatment for ADHD | SharpBrains

Myths and non myths: Cognitive Fitness and the Mature Workforce: Opportunities and Chall...

And, of course, something for the miscreant - Neuroplasticity is a dirty word Mind Hacks

I will post my notes from IQMindWare's program a bit later, so far I have been sidetracked the amount of material on the matter that is available. What a great tool this inter-web thingie is!


Haha, no problem!

I just find it fun to see others interested in this kind of stuff. It's a very different view of existence. I think it might appeal especially to INTJs, as we already think we are gods!

The article on Mind Hacks is right, of course. However, I would argue that the extent of neuroplasticity is still in its early stages it seems. In Doidge's first documentary one is introduced to stroke victims, and the progress is quite astounding. Not to mention the section on the blind guy. I don't really like Doidge's persona, he gives me a used car salesman vibe... But, he interviews some interesting researchers and patients.

I also agree with the fact that neuroplasticity is a buzzword, and I usually hate those. It doesn't seem practical to get very technical on trading message board, though. And I also think that it might discourage others of further educating themselves if one starts out to heavy. The general idea of self-directed neuroplasticity is usually well-received, but many give up and claim defeat too soon. It will be interesting to follow your progress. I remember how exciting I thought this was when I first looked into it nearly a decade ago.

I couldn't find the documentary based on Doidge's book, but it's worth watching if you can find it on a torrent site or similar. It aired on Canadian TV in 08, and was available here: The Brain that Changes Itself : The Nature of Things with David Suzuki : CBC-TV

This is the follow-up from 2010:


I also like this talk by Richard J. Davidson:

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  #137 (permalink)
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Lornz View Post
I actually found video footage of another drawing experiment. He cries of joy at the end:


Artificial euphoria.....a seemingly lack of ability to communicate in an articulate manner and a disturbing distortion of reality evidenced by the two different pictures that appeared the same.....I am not sure what the experiment was designed to prove and not sure what benefit this shows...

If this is typical of LSD users, I don't think I would want to partake. I'm not interested in experiencing what I saw...It was however, fascinating to watch.....I'd like to see a movie of what he saw in his mind while still retaining control of my faculties.

I'll follow this discussion with some interest....

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #138 (permalink)
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In Memoriam "Oscar"

“Oscar” the dachshund is dead.


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The dog was struck Sunday night by a car after running from its Snellville, Georgia home. The accident, police reported, occurred after the pet’s owners dosed the animal with LSD.

Nicholas Modrich and Jaime Hughes, both 25, were investigated for disorderly conduct after cops discovered them tripping in their Pinehurst Road residence. Witnesses had called 911 to report spotting the couple running naked on a nearby roadway.

During questioning by police, Hughes said that she and Modrich “had done acid earlier.” She also repeatedly asked officers if they knew the whereabouts of “Oscar,” their long-haired dachshund. While being transported to the hospital the duo told a Snellville cop that “they had given acid to their dog.”

The dog, cops subsequently learned, was struck by a car about half-a-mile from its home. “Oscar,” who had been adopted from the county’s animal shelter, died after being transported to a local animal hospital. Since the dog bit two people after being hit by the car, animal control officials will now test the animal’s corpse for rabies.

Police, who are seeking to interview Modrich and Hughes about the bizarre events Sunday evening, have said that the filing of animal cruelty charges against the couple is a possibility.

Modrich is a guitarist who fronts the group "Funguy Trio." The band, whose name appears to be a play on the word "fungi," likens its sound to "the inside of a mushroom after it has consumed you," according to its MySpace page. On his own MySpace page, Modrich, pictured above, includes “psychedelics,” “green herbs,” and “booze!!!” among his influences. His band's songs include "Mind Magic" and "Captain Pothead."

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  #139 (permalink)
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@Fat Tails : That's the kind of intellectual progress that LSD can lead. I think you just proved my point!

@PandaWarrior : I will retort later today. I have to take advantage of the beautiful spring weather...

 
  #140 (permalink)
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Lornz View Post
Good to see you back, @Surly!

He's been mentioned a few times already. I came across him nearly 10 years ago, he's a prominent figure within the OCD community. It's an interesting concept, and, in my opinion, a very interesting look at the role of consciousness. One could say that it makes us architects of our own mind. Or maybe it would be better to say that we are programmers of our biological operating system. Yeah, I think I like that one better. (TM and (C))!

I figured you'd know about him - his work is in line with "self-directed neuroplasticity". Have you seen John Lilly's "programming and meta-programming in the human biocomputer"? Obviously dated in terms of neuroscience but science relating to the mind often only catches up with what might be called "folk knowledge".

LSD is an awesome way to learn about your mind and what is possible in terms of different "realities" (i.e., how your mind builds up its unique representation of the physical/emotional/rational world). I spent several years in my youth exploring consciousness with it (it is impossible not to sound like a hippie when speaking of LSD - we really don't have a good lexicon or cultural framework for the type of knowledge/experience available in this realm). When used properly LSD (or psilocybin) can at least allow you to temporarily see other possibilities for looking at how you build up the reality you inhabit (here I mean reality in terms of how your mind constructs its representation - not in terms of physical laws, causality, etc).

Although I agree with what Chogyam Trungpa says about LSD being like "driving a car to go next door" and with what Richard Alpert says about it being a great way to be shown the way but that durable expansion of consciousness/potential only comes through diligent effort over time (an idea that aligns well with Jeffrey Schwartz's concept of "mental force" and how directed attention promotes neuroplasticity).

All good stuff!

Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty. - Frank Herbert
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