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I'm planning to retire to the Caribbean.
Since futures.io (formerly BMT) has a lot of people from all over, I thought I could ask input from you guys on the advantages/disadvantages of certain locations (specifically if you live there or near by you could give some feedback)
What I'm looking for:
- Warm climate
- High speed reliable internet
- Reliable power for most part (I can get a generator)
- English spoken is a big plus
- Low taxes on income from trading
- Stable currency as much as possible
- Easy Citizenship requirements, home ownership, etc
- People are happy and friendly
It would also be helpful if I could afford to live there
Interesting you shared that as we were looking for warm climate and good trading hours.
Dominican Republic is what we came up with as the safest and easiest. Also the best internet etc.. Just from what I read, no practical experience. Never been there.
Why don't you look at old episodes of House Hunters International. Many of the stories involve Americans who are relocating, or looking for second homes before they retire.
Although I am biased, I'll throw Bermuda into the ring. Although technically not a Caribbean country, it is in the general vicinity and has most of what you want. I lived there for most of my childhood:
What I'm looking for:
- Warm climate - Occasionally drops below 50 degrees every few years. The weather usually tops out in the 90s. It is humid in Bermuda so although you might sweat, you don't get that parching dry heat like in LV or on a +90 day in Chicago
- High speed reliable internet - Worked for the cable broadband provider a few years back. It is great as long as nothing goes wrong. Varies with the provider you choose. - Reliable power for most part (I can get a generator) - Once every few years a hurricane knocks out power but other than that, no interruptions that I can remember. - English spoken is a big plus - English colony so no complaints there - Low taxes on income from trading - Not 100% on trading taxes but I don't think they charge anything at all. There are no taxes because everything is imposed through customs when goods enter the island - Stable currency as much as possible - Bermudian dollar permanently tiered to the USD so $1 USD always = $1 BMD. - Easy Citizenship requirements, home ownership, etc - Not too sure about this. You can go there and basically fall off the radar. No one will actively look to get you deported unless you get involved in politics, illegal activities or take business from a local. I think that it might be a large hassle to own a house as a foreigner because they are in such large demand - People are happy and friendly - Very much so. People will talk to you on the bus and every one says hello and good morning. There has been a recent rise in crime which has jaded a few of the locals but it is far from any standard you would expect in a metropolitan area in the US.
It would also be helpful if I could afford to live there
Cost of living is extremely expensive because the price of everything is raised after it clears custom. Because the island is 24 sq miles long, housing prices the last I checked were in a continual upward spiral thanks to good ole supply v demand. Any thoughts or recommendations?
I'd say add it to your list and give it an in depth look. I might go back when I want to raise a family and/or retire. There just is not much to do if you are between the ages of 18-35 there. PM or post if you have any specific questions
Mike
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biggest factor Im afraid of is the high probability of hurricanes ... every year actually.
I dont think you will be trading much in hurricane season. Power and internet connectivity are surely affected as well.
Also what is the cost of life ? I would think being on islands it would be much higher than in mainland USA or Canada.
Please remember that as an American Citizen you pay taxes wherever you go! That COULD BE on-top of the local taxes as well, but that is typically deducted from your overall tax hit from the FED's. Think of it more like a 'state' tax in that it is allowed for deduction but could make your combined taxes go up!
Texas is one of the better foreign countries for this! haha...
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JAMAICA is it, my man (I've never lived there) ... and you can easily be a Jamerican citizen. to ... good for Underwater Photography too, so you can retire to be an Underwater Photographer.
You did not mention when, as you are in the 30's/40's is it a short term or long term plan. Consider political stability and take some vacations in the selected areas to really understand the local life and if it really fits you. Ask also yourself if you really are ready to change your life style and habits, I am sure you already asked yourself those questions, but the real luxe nowadays is time and if you never have time to dedicate to yourself and your dears than any place is the same.
Thought you were leaving in one of the top places in the US.
Sorry for not answering your question, I just wanted to give some feedbacks based on my personal experience and friends.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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I turn 34 next week. My goal is to be retired by 40. I use the word "retired" to basically mean that I want to be moved in to my "final destination" home, I want to be "set" financially, and I want to just focus on enjoying everything in life instead of focused on working 12-14 hours a day like I do now. I will still trade but it won't be because I have to in order to pay the bills, it will be because I want to.
I don't want to sound un-American, but this country is just going down the tubes. Part of me wants to stay and try and help prevent that from happening. But the bigger part of me just wants to get the hell out of dodge.
As for social security, etc, my retirement does not count on any of those funds. So I won't be "losing" them. As for medical care, I can't imagine it being any worse than it is here in America.
Perfect attitude in my opinion. 'Retired' is a joke of a word, but doing what you want to be doing when you want to be doing it is key to me.
Having lived in very tropical places for the majority of my life, then it definitely requires some 'testing of waters' to evaluate if you can truly stand that form of lifestyle. It is slower and more complacent, but to me it is refreshing and cleansing but requires the occasional trip to go do some fun stuff. Where I live now is a bit crazy (Concreteville --> Honolulu), but the outer islands are quite nice if you can stand the slow lifestyle and the lack of them actually liking you sometimes because of the culture you were raised in.
Culture is highly misunderstood if you haven't 'lived' in that locale.
I would love to "retire" right where I am. Sydney has basically everything on your list, except it is a very expensive place to live. You need a LOT of money to live the good life here, but it is a brilliant place if you do. You can live in a mansion on beautiful beaches, cruise the clean harbor on your super yacht, stopping at beaches only accessible by boat. Eat at some of the worlds best restaurants. Helicopter to the many wine regions close to the city (or drive in your Lamborghini Aventador). Own a holiday home at some of the worlds nicest beaches only 2 - 4 hours away.
All this for only roughly $100 Million a year
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Denounce citizenship... Of course, then you can only come into the country for so many days a year. To some that is extreme, but I am considering it once the kids get through Uni.
Cost of living is generally extremely expensive for all islands because all goods are imported and taxed. Here is a quote from 2006. I think prices have only gotten worse too...
Hurricanes happen frequently but only 2-3 did any real damage in the 20 years I lived there. The general way it goes is: 1) Hurricane warning 2) Anxiety 3) Hurricane downgraded to a tropical storm or misses the island entirely (it is extremely uncommon for direct hits to happen as the island is only 24 sq miles long)
I remember going a week without power after Hurricane Fabian but that was close to 10 years ago and the infrastructure is likely a bit better prepared. Also, with today's technology you can trade on your phone or even set your phone up as a mobile hotspot to get online.
Here are a few blogs about foreigners living in Bermuda. You can also use it to search other blogs in other countries Blog Bermuda, expat Bermuda
- One of the strongest Economies
-Safety is a NON-issue
-Hygiene is PAramount amound the locals
-Internet connection is also a non-issue
-Crystal clear Water (at the beach)
-Sand (White and granular like Sugar)
-The one drwaback is its size: quite small (166 square miles)
Jamaica - WAY to unsafe as it has one of the highest Murder rates in the Caribbean (shooting a cop there is a non issue and don't forget the big drug lord who just pleaded guilty here in the US recently. The community defended him when the cops went to arrest him in Jamaica)
Dominican Republic - WAY too dangerous: I am a New Yorker and the D.R. peeps never even want to visit their birth-place!!!
I would also recommend: the ABC islands if you are into water sports.
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You will not be happy on any island where English is the language or is somehow heavily influenced by America (hard to remain patriotic these days, isn’t it?) i.e. Porto Rico, Guam, Virgin Islands, Hawaii, and perhaps all Caribbean islands. That said, we are so spoiled in USA and if have not spent any time living somewhere else we have no idea what it is like living outside this country, even in Switzerland. Having lived half of my life outside USA, I can safely say that nothing is more important than the security for future and freedom to do anything you want, and if anyone tells you anywhere else is more secure than USA has never travelled or lived anywhere beyond a cruise line excursion or has never truly lived in USA.
It was, I think, Jack Nicklaus or Lee Trevino who said: I love to do what I love to do the best and get paid for it. In effect, both of them retired when they won their first Major and kept doing it thereafter. So, my friend; find that one or two things that matter and you love the most. Then it becomes so easy to figure out where to find them in the most secure and free way. That is the place to retire.
Mike
The US is unique in that the tax net it throws is world wide. The easiest way to exit it is to get dual citizenship then drop the US citizenship. Dual citizenship for Americans is only available in a few places unless you are willing to wait and go thru a crazy process. Check out Dominica (not Dominican Republic) and Nevis St Kitts. The buy in is 75k for Dominica and 250-300k for St. Kitts last time I checked. Best of luck.
We put our moving plans on hold this past year due to family issues however tropics is where we are headed eventually.
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You need to consider the local cost of living, your expending style and your buying power expressed locally. You can play with this cost of living index Cost of Living Index By Country, base is New York 100. You live in Australia and your purchasing power is similar to NY, in this case 1 million is not enough, in Thailand, just as an example, with the same value you'd live like a king.
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$1M is enough to start, and continue to make some money with trading.
I lived two years in a French Caribbean island, and was not great at all, to be avoided...
The congratulations not withstanding, what was the name of that country with high violent crimes rates, day-time kidnapping for ransom, and a drug-war between cartels and military forces?
I have no plans of emigrating, but I'm curious to know why you didn't like it. Can you elaborate somewhat about what annoyed you?
this article has all the details for US residents if you want to be free of the tax net and expatriate. I have not been to either place mentioned. -
...Let’s address the conventional track first. There’s lots of information online about getting citizenship (and thus a passport) from any number of nations. Search for “immigration to _______” and you’re off to the races. It’s generally much easier if you’re already married to a national of that country, but you’ll still probably need to move to that country for six months or more. Another route is citizenship through ancestral claim. That too varies from country to country, but if you can produce birth records for your parents (and sometimes grandparents), then you may be on your way. The super slow conventional way is – while you’re still a U.S. citizen – to immigrate to that country and go through the full residency and naturalization process. This path takes many years…three, five, sometimes much longer depending on the country. The best way to research these conventional options is to read online, write down any questions, and then contact an immigration attorney in the capital city to get your questions answered.
Now onto the fast track. Most people who feel motivated to expatriate don’t want to spend years trying to do so. Although it’s quick, convenient and legitimate, the fast track is not cheap. It’s called economic citizenship. That means purchasing a passport directly through a government’s economic citizenship program. There used to be several countries that offered this path. But over the years the U.S. has successfully pressured nation after nation to shut down the programs. Only two countries are still standing. The first is the Federation of St. Kitts and Nevis. The second is Dominica (not to be confused with the Dominican Republic). For people anxious to break free of the U.S. government’s grip, these economic citizenship programs are a Godsend. That’s why I fear they won’t last....
Isn't there a "exit tax"? I looked in to this, from what I can recall you have to pay an exit tax on all of your lifetime income to denounce ones citizenship?
I know several Americans who live in Panama almost full-time as "partially retired." They are successful, independent types who only speak English, want a stable place (in both politics, currency and property rights), and have a lot of $$$ they don't want taxed to oblivion. I think Panama fulfills most of your requirements.
Me? I'd prefer retirement to Alaska, Iceland, or somewhere in the Alps. Cold is good.
My plan is to purchase a sailboat (Catamaran) and actually live on the boat for a bit while deciding on a permanent island based home (hopefully with a dock yet high enough to avoid a hurricane tidal surge.
There are back issues of Caribbean Travel floating around the net and I would recommend them as a source.
Taxes seem to be the big issue unless you become a citizen of the country but one solution may be to form a corporation or LLC and funnel some of your income into the company. You could control the income in a trading LLC so that the profit would be 'reasonable' but mostly eaten up by expenses of the company.
If setup correctly, you can 'write-off' expenses of the company.
i.e. travel to and from the business and/or living expenses for travel to a company branch location.
(perhaps on the island of your residence).
As the CEO of the company your expenses to travel to 'training' locations (Caribbean Island) or other locations to 'research' investment opportunities would be deductible.
At your age, I would setup a trading account to trade in a Roth IRA.
The profit from trading would grow tax free.
Your day to day living expenses could be mostly covered by the 'expenses' paid by your company for them having you in a satellite location as a trading specialist. Your income (and taxes) could be controlled by how well you trade your company account.
(when the income is too much for the expenses, then your trading could go through a drawdown period)
FWIW
Rejoice in the Thunderstorms of Life . . .
Knowing it's not about Clouds or Wind. . .
But Learning to Dance in the Rain ! ! !
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I skimmed over this idea a while back and came to the conclusion that Aruba or Curacao might be nice. Kingdom of the Netherlands Caribbean countries (formerly Netherlands Antilles), both outside the "Hurricane Belt".
One of my primary requirements is a high standard of living and decent local education. Beware of some destinations which only have nice resorts and the rest of the country lives poorly. I don't see that very appealing.
But as a more likely alternative to living out of the country, I'll probably do what a lot of people unknowingly do and that is disconnect myself from the media/politics and live in my own "bubble of a world" as I call it. The electorate is just down right gullible and the political games capitalizing on their naivety aren't going away anytime soon.
EDIT: Outside of the Caribbean, towards Asia, Singapore looks like an interesting place to visit.
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Unless one is relocating for tax-purposes, I much prefer Hawaii to the Caribbean. Maybe even some quiet places on Australia's East Coast. But I must admit that I am a sucker for infrastructure...
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They are outside the normal belt, however, they share and benefit or are harmed from the weather patterns coming off the top of South America (but what do I know).
I do know, that whenever there's bad weather for a prolonged period of time (read hurricane or other weather pattern) the waters become turbulent and stir up all the ocean garbage that was dumped offshore a few miles away, and return it to shore as well as the beaches.
didn't see the mention of "Island Fever" or "Rock Fever" but it could be a real concern. Lived in South Africa for over 3 years when I was single, then later moved to Guam after a 6 year stint in Phoenix. If you like driving as a past-time, or just to see what's around the next corner or over the next hill, your curiosity will begin waning after a couple years. We learned how to scuba and enjoyed exploring/beach-combing, etc. and worked over 70 hours/week so were able to last about 3 1/2 years. Military families seemed to move every couple years so I imagine it wasn't too big a problem in most cases.
Yup a good house in Australia is easily over a million.
Come to think of it, if you average $20k per month from trading, you would need 4-5 years to save a million. And that is provided you do not use the profit to pay for your expenses. Its a long time.
Grand Cayman...Privacy of banking laws, no personal income taxes. And no reciprical tax agreement with any foreign government...same with Bahamas.
As far as having to declare income as a US citizen...that I am not sure...however, if you create a corporation in the juresdiction where you reside, as in the case of the Bahamas, it is the corporation that is responsible for the taxes on investment income and as an employee, you only have to declare what you receive in salary from said corporation. Of course, there was no corporate taxes for personal service corporations either...at least, last time I checked which I admit, is a few years ago.
Internet connections are good...seen satallite feeds from there.
Worked for a company that used the Bahamas where wealthy Canadians could put money that was earned offshore and as such, didnt have a home. There is a large amouint of offshore money that lands where ever the bamking laws are most favourable.
Grand Cayman has many banks, many of the same rules as the Bahamas that the present Obama administration hopes to change. Banks in the hundreds. and a population of only 50000 or so. Have an aquaintance that moved there for that reason. Made multiple millions in the late nineties when a company he had an interest in sold for 50 odd million. He took portion, and moved to Grand Cayman so that he could live income tax free. He is no longer a Canadian resident, but he viisits his family here. And the weather, great.
Yes...the LLC. Cost is around 2500 to have the legals setup and corporate documents drawn up in the Bahamas. Added bonus of no corporate or personal income taxes. One does not have to reduce the income of the corporation so as to pay less in corporate tax...there isnt any.
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There is no "exit tax" for us traders. We pay our tax every year. Thanks to the HEROES Act, they mark to market all your gain/loss if you denounce your citizenship. Previously was that you will pay tax for the next 10 years.
I am sure the person who lobbied this change must be a trader or fund manager.
I am consider getting the St Kitts and Nevis citizenship. The island is beautiful. The only problem I have now is getting the damn 1/2 millions to buy it.
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This is full of crap. I can tell you that it doesn't work that work. As a US citizen, you are required by laws to report them. The only way to escape it is to give up control and own less than 10% of of the entity.
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Dont know about US law. Only Canada. But the Bahamas does not have a reciprocal tax agreement with Canada. Same is true with Grand Cayman. However, Canadians are required to report all the income they receive. If the income remains in and is taxed in a foreign corporation, how can the IRS require that foreign corporation to submit to US tax law?
Only Americans are subjected to taxes while outside the USA. Maybe a few other countries, but we are one of the most reaching countries.
He is right in the sense that you are supposed to report an interest in the company. Now, that doesn't mean they can tax you on that value since you can only be taxed for distributions. However, I am sure they would try to prove that what you are doing is nothing more than avoiding USA taxes and if they decide that then it is your burden to prove otherwise.
I would think that unless you had assets in the USA, then it would do very little damage to you to 'owe' against a judgement until they decided to jail you which they did my Uncle. Something like 45 days! Fed Pen isn't so bad though.
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America is also the most enabling country in the world!
There isn't another country, not Britain, not Canada, not France, not Singapore, not Hong Kong/China, not Taiwan, not ANY of the Caribbean countries, not any of the South American (desperate) countries, not Panama, not Costa Rica, not Belize, not Malta, not Africa and its dozens of countries
will allow you the unqualified opportunities like you have here in the US, and we wonder why they keep beating a path to our shores?
opportunities:
a) immigrate with a chance at qualified citizenship
b) work, without restrictions, from as simple as driving a taxi (in a city you don't even know yet) all the way up to running a corporation.....
c) property ownership, of both one's land, one's farm, one's residence, one's company, etc
d) (most importantly) access to education
d1) for your children, that are allowed to be born as citizens
d2) for your children, that come with you
d3) for your grownup members of your household, including self
d4) for your other family members
d5) for graduate and post graduate level degrees
e) unrestricted travel within the 50 states and territories
e1) I remember one manager taking his winning corporate team to Puerto Rico for a vacation, where none of all those foreign born employees would leave the US borders and have entrance problems
e2) the ability to purchase an airline, bus, train, taxi, or otherwise drive all across this amazing country and discover what other states, counties, neighborhoods and towns have to offer
e3) the freedom to go apple picking in the fall in another state
e4) the freedom to go fishing and riding amusement park rides in Florida during the summer
e5) the freedom to go skiiing in the north eastern states or mountain western states
e6) the freedom to......
Most, if not all countries you listed above has this privilege. The only problem is getting the PR.
This is not trule, there are a lot of obstacle from the government (local, state and federal levels) that preventing you to start and grow a business. For example, try to apply a food vendor license in NYC.
Yes, you are allow to rent it. You don't own the property if you have to get permission to modification to your property. For example, cut down a tree or move it to another area within your property.
Employers are facing tons of regulations. All passed without being read by our congress and representatives. No one know what is in it. They are all thousand of pages, and worst, they are open to interpret by the bureaucrats who does not think or know how to think.
Quality education is what we need. Not more education.
How much is education worth in our public school? As a product of NYC public school, I said it is not much. Teachers don't care about you. I went through the system from elementary through college, all in NY, and I can count all the caring teachers I have had in 1 hand.
This is a problem. We should only allow born citizenship if one or both parents are citizenship.
See reply from education.
This apply to any country. China has no restriction if you travel from providence to providence. Canada is the same. I am sure other countries are the same as well.
The biggest issue we have with the US government is privacy. This government is intrusive. The government want to know everything about you. Now, the executive branch even executed US citizenship without a trail. They just ignored the law. This is now a lawless country if you haven't aware of it.
They also central plan everything. Not just the economy. They want to do central plan for all of us. They said they know us better we know ourselves and what is best for us. What we can eat, drink, dress and think. This country is founded on freedom and liberty, which we no longer have.
And these are the reason why I want to leave. It is not about tax. I am happy to pay the tax.
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CW,
let me know where you settle, perhaps I will look into it too, however, I might visit there, if its on a cruise stop,
after I make these profits, and pay the stated percentage profits as taxes (for the opportunity to have earned those profits),
perhaps I'll rent a beach chair there, when the cruise ship stops there, for a day, after I get up from breakfast in my butler waited suite, and I'll wave good bye from the promenade deck as we sail into the sunset...
without offending you, it would have been easier to have understood your response if your grammar and sentence structure and context were in tandem and proper context. I'm not insulting you, its just when you speak of a plurality (Bureaucrats) and then refer to them in the singular, its hard to keep focus on the thought instead of the grammar.
When I worked at Oracle as a middle level technology manager specializing in advanced database applications, implementations and consultancy, and had over 15 direct reports, all of foreign origin with H1B visas, and worked for an India-Indian emigrant boss, who had over 80 people reporting to him, we had the distinct problem of where to choose our corporate retreat, just to reward all of them. We choose San Juan, PR, USA because non of them would have to leave the country and not be able to get back in. Most of these had their PhD's that they received while in residence in the USA, taking jobs away from US residents and students of native origin. So, my facts come from my experiences, not from conjecture. Where do your facts come from and your conclusions, what are they based upon?, actual knowledge of these H1B Visa requirements or just conjecture.
I was informed by an accountant that a number of the Indian based emigrants from who knows where (Banglideshi, India, Pakastani, etc.) were allowed in with stipulations and direct monetary support if they took over any of the thousands of available motels throughout the country, and used these as both residence, work and businesses. He said, if an American wanted to own, manage or rent one of those hotels / motels / franchises, they would have to purchase it on their own right. He lamented how these persons were advantaged through some State Department hidden-hands policy arrangement and US based citizens were highly disadvantaged as a result of that. Now admittedly, that is forth hand, as what he told me was third hand, but I kinda believe he knew what he was talking about, as he produced their tax returns by the dozens.
You're right, most countries, with the proper tourist Visa(s) will allow almost unrestricted travel within their borders without prior notice to the authorities, but I wouldn't try that in China, even still, just look over your shoulder and notice the face of that persons that was on the train, airport and hotel where you were at. Its called internal security forces doing their job.
If you want to know which country does the most monitoring of their citizens, visitors and undocumented aliens, then look across the pond, as the expression goes. If there's a problem with the freedoms that America provides with the understanding that freedom isn't free and requires, from time to time, sacrifice and adjustments, then perhaps on country on this planet will meet those unrealistic ideals that are often couched in arguments such as what your response proffered. A
Again, I am not insulting you, but speaking from facts instead of conjecture, supposition or otherwise always shows up when it comes to details.
Hey,let's focus upon our next trade, and share some charts from our current set-ups so we can all do better, after all, isn't that why we're here on futures.io (formerly BMT)?
Just because I don't agreed with what this government is doing, it doesn't mean I don't love the country. If I don't love this country, I would never volunteer to served in the military, in the most hardcore branch too.
Just a note on who has to file US Tax return...All US citizens. Anywhere in the world.
My wife is a US citizen, but has not lived in the US since the age of 14. According to US Tax Law, she must file a US tax return to be in compliance of Federal US Tax Law. She is a resident of Canada, pays canadian Income tax, therfore, because of US Canada agreement, she dosnt have to pay taxes on the same income twice...with some exceptions. Its very complicated...there must be 20 forms to fill out.
The penalties for not reporting everything from bank account to foreign property owned including investments can result in huge penalties and interest for each offence or, account. So, if you have a savings acount, checking, business account, investment acccount, retirement account in a foreign jurisdiction, and you havent filed a return, your penalty alone is 5 times 10,000.00 fine per account and penalties and interest of up to 25% of the value of each account if you are audited. Plus investigation costs. In other words, just because there are no tax liabilities in a foreign jurisdiction, does not mean that you dont have to file a return, or pay, or be subject to penalties in the US citizen. Most of you likely know this, right?
And there are anti avoidence rules. If a transaction is undertaken for the sole purpose of avoiding tax, it can be disallowed. Kind of. We have the smae rule in Canada. Its called the general anti avoidance regulation or GAAR. The taxpayer can appeal, but in tax law, the onus is on the taxpayer to prove the validity of their return.
US citizens are required to report all sources of foreign income. Check out teh IRS website on Voluntary Disclosure For US Non Residents on the IRS website.
Just clarifying the tax issue thing...Hope this helps.
Vince is correct. One minor correct, it apply to PR as well. That mean green card holder will be treated as citizen.
When IRS published the rule, they just slip it through and hardly anyone notice it. This included tax professional. It wasn't until months later for it get around to the tax professional, and finally they passed it on their their clients.
My EA friend said, you should always file a tax return even if you have no income. It is to prevent future complication from the IRS. Until the court, where you are innocent until proven guilty. With the IRS, you are guilty until they say you are innocent. NOTES: Just because you provide them your "proofs", they can still deny you.
US is the ONLY country in the world that tax world wide income base on status instead of residency. I believe US is also the ONLY country in the world that has a estate tax. This is money that has already taxed once.
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Yah, but the easy way to get around this is to just be a shareholder of a private company that pays for everything for you. That is how they all do it. Since you own the shares and not the company then the company does not have to report to the IRS. If you have distributions, then it is a different story completely.
You just have to set a value on those shares etc.. This is all complicated tax stuff, but nothing a tax attorney can't fix.
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A penalty for failing to file Form 5471, Information Return of U.S. Persons with Respect to Certain Foreign Corporations. Certain United States persons who are officers, directors or shareholders in certain foreign corporations (including International Business Corporations) are required to report information under IRC §§ 6035, 6038 and 6046.The penalty for failing to file each one of these information returns is $10,000, with an additional $10,000 added for each month the failure continues beginning 90 days after the taxpayer is notified of the delinquency, up to a maximum of $50,000 per return.
If this is a foreign corporation, and you are the owner, and trading in this corporation, then you have to be an officer or director or shareholder. dosnt distinguish between public or private corporation. I dont see any exceptions for no distributions. If the company pays for you, all your expenses...then it is a taxable benefit. By definition. Particularily if the sole source of income is income from trading. If the IRS beleives there may be taxable benefit, they can require audited financial statements of the the corporation. An you have to comply because you are a US Citizen or PR shareholder.
There is further documentaion that requires names and addresses officers, directors and shareholders, as well as aggregate value of the corporation. Also requires when the business was established, where did the property originate. In the case of a trading account, the funds come from the US. (likely) There is another form covering the transfer of US property to the foreign account.
Over the last few years, the US and Canada are both attempting to plug up the Offshore Account foreign business owned account loopholes, given the explosion in global investment instruments, like offshore investments.
Daniel Webster himself wound't be able to get around this.
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Offshore entities setup will be tax neutral. It does not increase or decrease your tax. The only exception on some investments such as annuity and life insurance where you can defer the tax.
If your tax accountant/attorney tell you you can save tax for offshore, run and find a new accountant/attorney.
Well I am in no way a tax expert but as an ex PR resident I know by fact that PR residents which are US citizens by born, do not pay federal taxes, as a PR resident you can not vote for the President :-( , there is always a catch, you can move there but cannot vote. And BTW non-capital gains are taxed at 12%.
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Guys, recently I had been thinking what is the best option to build up a passive income source. Supposedly you have traded for a good number of years and had been able to have consistent profit monthly, in plan of retirement and you wish to trade less - much less, could you use part of your monthly to build up a passive income source over time?
The best option out there seems to be dividend stocks. Any other suggestions?
"Passive" is a tough word. As an old life coach of mine used to say, "The only passive income anyone will ever have is if you were born with a silver spoon and your trust has been set up for you to send you checks".
In my opinion, there is no safe haven.
Bonds, Treasuries, Dollars, Currencies, Derivatives of any kind, Insurance, etc.. They all go through their struggles.
Right now, I am buying up homes where I grew up (been doing it for 12 years) @ 15K - 20K per home and cashflow them like MAD. 30% IRR's, but it is management intensive.
In my opinion, TIC (Tenant-In-Common) real estate deals in a high demand area are some of the best deals for consistent income. Or a REIT that doesn't leverage etc.. Just my 10 cents, but I never dream of passive, just less active.
If you are good and able to build up a sizable account, for example, 100 millions, and no longer able to get a good return with it, then you have to convert your paper into hard asset. The best asset type is rental property. People always need a roof. And in the US, we have very favorable law for real estate. Bankers love to lend you money to buy home.
I disagree, but so be it. Compare it to anything else and why do you say it isn't a good one?
If you look temporarily, than yes, you are right. Can you buy in and have an illiquid issue of value, that is why location and timing are everything. With other investments, mostly timing is everything!
If you buy in a location which people will always want to be like:
1. Good jobs
2. Good education
3. Decent weather
4. Low Crime
Etc...
I know, people will disagree on what metric is low/high, but pick a place like Santa Barbara, or most of the coast of California, Hawaii, parts or other areas that have high barriers to entry and you will find the values continue North. (Manhattan, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc..)
my dear friend that's what i was saying.temporarily i don't think that investing in real estate is that good.
on the long run though, now is the time to buy properties and gain a substantial profit
when the market turns.
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Sure Mike , I will give feedback when returning from Costa Rica ( resident visa , real estate , health program , cost of living , internet , taxes etc).
I am willing to visit mainly the pacific ocean side ( Nicoya Peninsula)
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Question to you guys...
When I move out of the States, my mom has expressed interest in joining me and living near wherever I ultimately decide to reside.
However, she receives disability and social security right now from the US. I am just wondering, will she continue to receive these benefits outside of the US? Or do I need to add this to my monthly budget to cover the "lost" money for her.
I had wondered the same thing for me, if I would still collect SS retirement when I reside outside the US. I mean I paid into it, I assume I will still get to collect it, but who knows with the crazy rules. And of course who knows what it will actually look like by the time I retire, I have assumed it will be zero positive income for me but still wonder what you guys say.
Yes, you can continue to receive your Soc. Sec. payments to your new foreign domicile. My best friend is British and lived and worked in U.S. for many years. He had dual citizenship. When he left, he even renounced his U.S. citizenship but has still continued to collect his monthly Soc Sec. stipend every month. It took him a try or two to get it set up properly but he has collected it now for over 10 years from overseas.
Of course, as you alluded to earlier, there's simply no telling how long such schemes will continue in force given the dismal economic situation headed in our direction. I do however, think it would behoove you to make your move prior to January of 2013 as capital controls implemented through a sneaky addition to the new Hire Act and FACTA will come into play, making it ever harder for Americans to conduct financial transactions overseas due to onerous reporting and withholding situations being foisted upon foreign banks who cater to Americans.
I hope that information helps.
Randy
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My mother in law is naturalized US citizen, and lived a significant potion of her life in the US. She collects her full SS, despite the fact she lives in Canada, and has since 1994. She applied for and started to receive her SS after she was no longer a US resident. And she also collects Old Age Security and Canada Pension Plan and Soul Survivor Benefits from Canada, as her total residency in canada allowed her to qualify for the OAS. (She made the deadline by 2 months, and it works out to 500 a month for life, not much to be sure, but not bad, to be sure.) CCP is the plan Canadians pay into, like Social Security.
Personal experience. I helped her with her application.
Vince
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Thanks guys. So this would cover her disability as well as 'normal' social security I suppose. I guess that means all she would lose is her medical coverage (medicare/medicaid).
As for moving prior to January 2013, yes I wish... but unfortunately I won't be ready yet by that time. I recently turned 34 and I plan to be down there and retired by 40.
Here is some more info about being an expat. I was one for 12 years.
If you are a US citizen that passes the physical presence test in a country that has a tax treaty with the US, you can exempt up to $80K of income that is made in that country. And of course that is taxable net, not gross.
.
Big Mike great topic, I've done some extensive research and I believe Freeport, Grand Bahama Island is the best for a variety of reasons:
What I'm looking for:
- Warm climate- east of Fort Lauderdale, Fla, advantage over Fla is lower humidity,(Island breezes) - High speed reliable internet- for the most part
- Reliable power for most part (I can get a generator)- for the most part
These 2 topics go together it would be good to have a generator plus a back up satiliite internet for a security blanket.
- English spoken is a big plus- yes part of British Commonwealth
- Low taxes on income from trading- No income taxes. All taxes are customs duties and a small tax on banking transactions. No property taxes on real estate. As in Bermuda taxes are customs duties.
- Stable currency as much as possible- on par with U.S. Dollar
- Easy Citizenship requirements, - not a problem, however not necessary. For U.S. income tax purposes if you are e.g. trying to establish the "physical presence" for the "earned income exclusion" even residency is not required. When you are coming onto the Island there are diffent exemptions from duties based on if you are a "resident" or a visitor so you may not even want to establish residency.
- home ownership, etc- Is easy if you can pay cash for your house. Unlike, Bermuda, housing prices are more reasonable than in Florida for a comparable home. Housing prices are reasonable because it is difficult for Bahamians to get a mortgage. They require a large down payment or if you build a house you cannot get a construction loan until you pay for the land and have about 40% of the house built. There is a local who makes his living building houses and selling them rent to own. A little trick he uses is he lets his purchasers "skip" their December payment which is folded into the principle and ends up extending the mortgage. As a financial decision it may be better to just rent. Keep in mind that if you tie up your capital in real estate you have less money to trade with. Much better idea to put your 110 to 200 grand in a trading account and generate the income to pay your rent and probably keep adding to the value of your account. Rents are reasonable and right now the economy there is depressed so you will not have a problem negotiating a lower rent especailly if you are going to be a long term tenant.
- People are happy and friendly- yes yes yes, the locals are extremely freindly and great people.
It would also be helpful if I could afford to live there yes i will elaborate on all these topics as folows: Grand Bahama Island The Bahamas - Home to Freeport, Lucaya, and West End
Grand Bahama Island is the best place for a trader to live. When The Bahamas were given their independence from Great Britan the Queen kept a large portion of Grand Bahama Island for herself. The result is that this portion of the Island is a tax haven with in a tax haven. She leased this part of the Island to a wealthy american businessman to develop for her. This part of the island is ran by what is called the "Port Authority" I have made friends with locals who have educated me on the usefulness of this dicotomy for people like us who want to live in the Caribbean and trade for a living.
The Island itself is not as touresty as Nasaua.
The rest of the island is owned by owned by the locals and it is unlikely it will ever be developed because the people own it like Native American reservations and can't get clear title to the land to sell it to developers so it is just passed on to family members.
Because of it's proximity to Florida you can get back and forth fairly cheaply by plane and you can also take a small cruise ship called the "Discovery". It goes back and forth to Ft. Luaderdale daily. You can go there once a month and go to Costco, Wal-mart and other stores to do your shopping. The other advantage is that if you are suffering from "island fever" it is easy to go to florida for a break. News flash, just went to get the link for the discovery Cruise and they've gone out of business. There is another cruise ship out of Palm Beach called the Celelebration. So that option is still available.
Also, the close proximity is helpful so your mom can use her medical insurance in Florida.
There are a lot of day traders there for this reason.
I met someone who had a trading business located there. He had day traders and swing traders that were his employees and were prop traders.
He relocated his business to the U.S. Virgin Islands because the U.S. tax incentives for corps that employ 10 or more locals only have to pay 5% corporate tax. He hates it there and so does his wife, they want to move back to Freeport.
Since they were paid income for doing their jobs they qualified for the foreign income exclusion. ( unlikely day trading would not be exempt, however there are ways to legally shelter this income while you are "physically present " in the Bahamas. see Foreign Earned Income Exclusion - What is Foreign Earned Income So if you can establish a business ther you can exclude 80k in income plus 24k for living expenses from you US income taxes.
It's laughable that someone sent a link about tech Tycoon William Millard as an example of were tp reside to get favorable tax treatment. He may have been briliiant at computers but he didn't know how to avoid taxes legally or he wouldn't have the IRS on his tail. Obviously he was illegally evading taxes.
Sir John Templeton (Templeton growth funds) knew exactly what to do. When he decided to retire he moved to the Bahamas, renounced his US citizenship, then he sold all his holdings completely tax free. He legally avoided all taxes on his huge fortune.
In honor of this fine man our great Senator, Carl Levin sponsered an amendment to a bill that anyone who moved out of the US and renounced their citizenship wouild be charged 30% tax on their wealth (called an exit fee) and would not be able to visit the US for more than 30 days per year.
Big Mike, I have alot more info that I don't want to spend the time typing here since I hate typing. If you want to contact me by email i will be more that happy ro provide you with more info.
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good point about children, that really changes the equation. There was a time I wanted to live and work(tele-commute) from Costa Rica, looked into schools and medical care, both are much better than the carribbean. I believe Costa Rica is much better choice than the caribbean, more diversity ot terrian, mountains, forests, beaches etc. and for you single guys, the women in San Juan are very friendly -
I know couple of people(both traders) who moved to the US Virgin Islands, one actually from TX. However their stint lasted less than two years. There is something to be said about the isolation of the Islands that is hard to overcome.
Children is the reason that I have re-think over thing. My search ended up with 2 locations, neither of this would consider a retire locations. The locations are Hong Kong and Singapore.
Both locations have very high cost of living. Probably on par with NYC if not higher.
Both have excellent education and medical system.
Both speak English
Both are classified as tax haven
Visa are easily obtainable if you have $$$ to invest in them. Either as investment or open a business
Both governments have little or no debt.
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A few people have private messaged me, talking about people they knew who moved to the island areas (Caribbean) and then moved back to their homeland within a couple years.
This concerns me a bit, so I'd like to hear from anyone who has taken the plunge and moved from their homeland and moved into an island type community/country... can you speak about island fever, and any thoughts on how to know ahead of time if someone will "make it" or want to retreat back to their homeland?
Personally, I feel that I have all the strength necessary to make it as an island person. But I'd like to hear from others in case I have failed to consider something. Obviously, it is a bit nerve racking to make an enormous investment in time/money in your retirement and then not be able to stand living there...
The Navy moved me to Hawaii when I was just 19/20 years old. I thought, well, I am in the United States right...
Anyways, at first, I absolutely thought it was cool. That lasted about 5 minutes. Then, I absolutely thought it sucked, couldn't sleep (too hot), realized the people didn't really like me (being white-n-all and a dude) right from the beginning, and couldn't wait to get the hell out of dodge (4 years later but with lots of trips all over the world in the interim).
When I got back to the mainland, I didn't miss it and then after a few years I decided to go back for a 'vacation' and decided I would 'retire' back there after I cashed out on some deals. I have to say, it was a great move as it moved me emotionally and mentally into a much better place than where I was caught up in the typical American materialism and egoism's...
I personally have never suffered from "ROCK FEVER", but I know many people who do and who freak out. Most of those people who do move back quickly are very 'reserved' in their cultural beliefs and have difficulty adjusting to another culture. They are not the type of people who have a smile from ear to ear when they travel to distinct and challenging locations (like I do... ).
Culture is a big problem for most people. They can't or choose not to accept or be molded any by that culture which will always kind of scrape at your core being a bit. It will drain you and you will yearn for the mainland USA.
Personally for me at this place in my life, I would like to get back to the mainland most of the time so my kids can get what I consider a more reasonable culture and education. There is a lot I do not like about the American way, but in the end, it is a lot better than the island way....
I could go on for weeks about stories of how people behave on islands that are different than continents.. haha.. Really, I think it is both island and tropical because every warm climate I have ever been to they behave similarly.
An interesting dichotomy is FIJI and Hawaii. Fiji is amazing and beautiful and it looks like Hawaii did 50 years ago. A lot of Indians and natives as well as the typical white person. The big difference between the two islands is the level of 'Aloha'. Hawaii people are just not friendly anymore. I don't know why that is, but the friendly culture has mostly died out and while they are not too rough around the edges (like what I would say about Californian's or New Yorkers/Chicagoans) and they will not take the piss out of you, they will definitely not hold out a helpful hand as often as you will see in the Midwest.
I have lived in all parts of the country (USA), overseas in several locations as well as mostly Hawaii for many many years. In the end, island living is fun, but you truly have to be someone who can immerse themselves and truly enjoy the culture as well. NOT JUST ENJOY THE WEATHER.
I always ask people in Hawaii (mostly transplants after they tell me how much they love it here) would you live here if the weather were the same as Chicago/New York/Boston, etc...
They typically respond, "Of course not..."
If you could say, "Yes, I think I would still find it interesting" then I would heavily consider it. Otherwise, set a 2 year lifetime sabbatical with a plan to come back to the mainland and see where the wind blows you.
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sorry I didn't read the entire thread, but its not clear to me if you have lived in the caribbean for an extended period of time? I would suggest take some time and live in the caribbean for 3-6 months before the final move.
just to share, tired of the cold weather in the NE US. I always wanted to live in California, particularly San Fransico. I thought SF would offer big city life similiar to NYC. Thankfully before our final move, my wife and I rented one of those fully furnished apartment for four months in Japantown section of SF. After couple of months we realized SF was not for us. We both missed our extended family in NE. The weather is weird in SF, even in summer its cold and damp! and the whole timezone thing, three hours behind the east coast was unsettling. So back happily living in New York again....
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Have not lived there, just a few trips down. I like the slower lifestyle, more laid back, etc. I also like how people are happy with what they have, I could benefit from being surrounded by such people.
Yes, I absolutely will rent a place to stay for at minimum several weeks (if not months) prior to moving.
I was born in the UK, grew up in Australia, but have spent most of my working life (20 years) working in different locations around the world. While all my family (parents and siblings) are still in Australia, I have chosen to make the US my home. That said, I have moved between the US and Australia 5 times in that 20 years. What I can tell you is that being happy in a place has more to do with being happy within yourself than necessarily the place - i.e. it is more psychological than anything else. I have often found myself nostalgic for Chicago or New Zealand, but it is the memories of the times I live there that I miss. Going back to any of these places, while wonderful, is not the same.
There has been a lot of discussion on this thread around tax consequences but I would advise that this is the last thing that should enter into your consideration. Decide where you will be happiest and enjoy life to the fullest and then work out the most effective tax plan to support your choice. International tax planning, especially for US citizens and permanent residents, is way more complicated than even this thread suggests...the US tax system reminds me of the Eagles song "Hotel California"...you can check out any time you like but you can never leave :-)
Even as an Australia citizen who holds UK Citizenship, the fact that I am a US Permanent Resident means that even if I decide to leave and return home to Australia or anywhere in the EU, I still need to file US taxes for at least 10 years after I leave. Obviously I could refuse and just decide not to file, but it means I could never come back to the US - ever - unless I was prepared to be arrested at the border for tax evasion. There is a huge difference between tax evasion (which is illegal) and tax avoidance (which is not only your right, but your obligation!). A decent site to start your research on tax issues for US expats is Tax Avoidance vs. Tax Evasion for American Expats
Gary.
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HEROES Act removed 10 years filing requirement and replaced it with a Mark to Market on all your net asset if you denounce your citizenship or give up on the PR. I think if your net worth is less than 2 millions, you are exempt. Ask a tax professional on this.
Before the HEROES act, the exit tax does not apply to PR.
Until this thread I had never thought about "island fever". Now that I've thought about it, I can definitely see this being an issue for me, so I can't see myself permanently moving to a small island. And for the most part I've always really enjoyed the changing of the seasons so I'll probably stay a resident in the same region I am now. The local municipal fiber broadband is also pretty attractive when compared to the offerings from the big ISPs.
Reasons why Freeport, Gramd Bahama Island is the best place for the Day trader to relocate.
It's in the Eastern Time Zone so it is much easier to day trade than California.
Island fever is not really an issue. I informed you of the easy and cheap access to Florida for shopping and doctors appointments. Spirit runs $39.00 flights. I've done more research and there are several high speed Catamarans that go from either West Palm Beach or Fort Lauderdale 6 or 4 days per week. From Ft. Luaderdale it is $49.00 and 2 hours and from West Palm Beach it is 3 hours. Cloud X - High Speed Ferry - Bahamas - West Palm Beach.com.
On December 9, 2011 Balearia Group will begin 6 day per week Catamaran Ferry from Port Everglades, Fort Luarderdale, FL They are also running a similar ferry from Miami to Bimini Bahamas. Soon they will be running ferrys between the Bahamas Islands.
I want to thank everyone's imput on this topic. Especially the tax discussion. After reading all the posts it is obvious we need to get rid of our slave tax system. Fair tax is the way to go but maybe I'll start a thread on that topic.
If you are going to go the renounce your citizenship route I'd say the best way would be move to Wndsor, Canada take advantage of the 5 year tax holiday, get into the free health care system, you become a citizen of Canda and the United Kingdom. Move to Freeport and pay no taxes on your trading. Bahamas is a member state of the UK. Canadians don't pay taxes on income they make outside of the country. Canadians don't need a visa to visit US. Temporary Visitors to the U.S., and I guess all UK counties are part of the Visa waiver program so that would include the Bahamas. Visa Waiver Program (VWP)
No where else matches the advantages of Freeport. Island living with ease of access to US mainland and all those advantages, where that people are great and friendly.
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For us US citizen, the 5 years tax holiday does nothing for us.
But it is interesting through about Windsor Canada.
I am hoping for HK. My reason is China will be replacing US as the world biggest economy in a decade or two. Want to be where the action is. My wife is a China national and she has a lot of her friends in China.
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