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The planet, the environment, war
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The planet, the environment, war

  #61 (permalink)
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Fracking uses high pressure and high temperature steam and chemicals to break apart the shale and then frack sand to hold apart the cracks and let out the trapped natural gas.

It is high energy and high pollution to get the natural gas. It doesn't make common sense and shouldn't be entertained by anyone with the uncommon feature of common sense.

I do know from my reading that the whole natural gas via fracking has been a boondoggle and the ground structures are more complex and the actual amount of gas they (in the USA) are getting is very low. So that and the amount of energy consumed to produce the natural gas are two good reasons to abandon this "profit-at-any-cost-to-the-planet" boon-doogle.

Wind and solar are cheaper and the energy storable via hydro and or flywheels.

what is the carbon impact along with the destruction done to the environment to extract the needed components for solar power....I've read its quite destructive to mine, process and manufacture the panels along with the battery components....so much so that it might be environmentally negative to use solar.....I don't really know so I am asking.....there is so much conflicting information on this issue....

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  #62 (permalink)
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what is the carbon impact along with the destruction done to the environment to extract the needed components for solar power....I've read its quite destructive to mine, process and manufacture the panels along with the battery components....so much so that it might be environmentally negative to use solar.....I don't really know so I am asking.....there is so much conflicting information on this issue....

Also it takes almost 20 yrs to recoup the cost and energy required to manufacture a Wind Tower. I have a client that used to construct the tower sections and they had to stop because it was a death business. They switched to pressure vessels for oil and gas to survive.

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  #63 (permalink)
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Also it takes almost 20 yrs to recoup the cost and energy required to manufacture a Wind Tower. I have a client that used to construct the tower sections and they had to stop because it was a death business. They switched to pressure vessels for oil and gas to survive.

I flew over the harbor in Copenhagen Denmark a few years back...the harbor is full of wind towers....totally destroyed the beauty of the natural environment.....not to mention the number of dead sea birds each year.....then my friends in Denmark took us out sight seeing....and we stopped under a tower to see some sights.....and we had to yell at each other because the noise pollution coming from the tower was so loud. But they produced electricity without using nuke power or fossil fuel making it clean energy more or less....

It just seems the payoffs just aren't there. I like the idea of clean sustainable energy but it seems like theres a lot of negative consequences just like fossil fuels.

Not sure who to believe at this point......

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  #64 (permalink)
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I flew over the harbor in Copenhagen Denmark a few years back...the harbor is full of wind towers....totally destroyed the beauty of the natural environment.....not to mention the number of dead sea birds each year.....then my friends in Denmark took us out sight seeing....and we stopped under a tower to see some sights.....and we had to yell at each other because the noise pollution coming from the tower was so loud. But they produced electricity without using nuke power or fossil fuel making it clean energy more or less....

It just seems the payoffs just aren't there. I like the idea of clean sustainable energy but it seems like theres a lot of negative consequences just like fossil fuels.

Not sure who to believe at this point......

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Quoting 
tt gave a quick stat 20 years - but no supporting calculations is it right or wrong and what assumptions?
More endless debate and more dragging the topic into the alleyway and mugging it.
For tt to say "wind is dead" is wrong a lie and playing into the the planetary destructionist delaying tactics.
T Boone Pickens who made his fortune in the Oil business decided a decade ago to get into the wind business.

My stats come from a company who manufactured wind towers for T Boone Pickens. They both have gotten out of the wind game because it was a boondoggle. They lost large amounts of money. There was a rush to create large wind fields and towers. But the actual cost of creating the towers ballooned.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/04/11/t-boone-pickens-ive-lost-my-wind-power-jobs-are-oil-and-gas-industry

Pickens lost his Billionaire status because of failed wind investments.

I find it funny that someone post a different angle and your first decision is to just ignore that poster. Don't worry I don't need to post in this thread with someone who is unwilling for open and active discourse. @PandaWarrior don't question him he doesn't like that.


Last edited by tturner86; September 15th, 2014 at 07:02 PM.
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  #65 (permalink)
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panda

Certainly there is much conflicting data - and that is the whole point of
delay til death.

To confuse argue and debate.
Until death - death of the planet.
This is not a sugar twin debate.
This is the end of the planet's ecosystems.

tt gave a quick stat 20 years - but no supporting calculations is it right or wrong and what assumptions?
More endless debate and more dragging the topic into the alleyway and mugging it.
For tt to say "wind is dead" is wrong a lie and playing into the the planetary destructionist delaying tactics.
T Boone Pickens who made his fortune in the Oil business decided a decade ago to get into the wind business.


And here common sense must come into play.

There is a life cycle energy cost cost of the material inputs.
These also existing in the metals in the drill rig,
the drill pipe,
the drill trucks,
the drill casing,
the energy to drill a hole,
the energy to drill all the exploration holes,
The energy to built the miles of pipeline
the energy to refine it
then the energy to get it to market
then the energy to lost in burning it.
(that is a gas turbine is only 40% efficient in converting it to electricity)

Is there even a net gain???

then the pollution
the pollution refine it - water and chemicals etc at the refinery
the pollution to the ground water

----------

So bring in common sense
The planet is roasting and the oceans and air and land are being poisoned
There is no one who thinks tapping stored carbon energy is good solution.
It was started at the beginning of the industrial age and the work population was only 1 billion
Its over 7.billion (about 7.8

The energy from the wind is clean.





They have millions. The are oil/fossil fuel based. They are only interested in the status-quo continuing.

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  #66 (permalink)
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There is lots of room to continue endless debating

just start a new thread

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  #67 (permalink)
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The planet is dying

The planet is dying and dying fast.

This is not a joke.

This in not politics and chew the fat on the porch.

If you are not for saving the planet, and if you are not for getting away from
fossil fuels
pollution of food, land, water, streams, rivers, oceans, and air
cutting down the forests
dragnet trawling the oceans
and so on

do not post in this thread.

Good trading to everyone.
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  #68 (permalink)
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The lifecyle energy cost recapture of a large wind turbine is 2.8 yrs not 20.

The depreciation life cycle used in economic calculations is 20yrs

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  #69 (permalink)
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wind power to coal

As of 2014, the wind industry in the USA is able to produce more power at lower cost by using taller wind turbines with longer blades, capturing the faster winds at higher elevations. This has opened up new opportunities and in Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio, the price of power from wind turbines built 300 feet to 400 feet above the ground can now compete with conventional fossil fuels like coal. Prices have fallen to about 4 cents per kilowatt-hour in some cases and utilities have been increasing the amount of wind energy in their portfolio, saying it is their cheapest option.[31]

Wind power in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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  #70 (permalink)
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California drought

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