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BEING A SOVEREIGN, are you a sovereign?


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BEING A SOVEREIGN, are you a sovereign?

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  #1 (permalink)
 Gabriyele 
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The Benefits Of Being A Sovereign

There is much to be gained from becoming what you were born to be “A Sovereign”.

The first thing a Sovereign becomes is immune to law, I.E. statutory, civil and vehicle codes.
You no longer are subject to those laws they just do not apply to you.

You gain the ability to discharge anything in the legal arena of commerce using the laws of that system against the perpetrators that are currently using those laws against you for their gain.

Becoming the Sovereign Citizen you were born to be, which is the master over the legal system rather than the servant you are now as a statutory citizen.

(Note the Capitalization of the letter C)

You were born a Sovereign but it only lasted a few hours or maybe a day at the most before you were illegally brought into the system by contract known as a birth certificate.

That certificate made you a servant to the world we know as the UNITED STATES and the so called American way.


Discharging your debts by bonds.


Never having to pay a traffic ticket again if you so choose.


You cannot be sued in any court in this country.


Legally eliminate paying income taxes both federal and state.
NOTE: The system will fight you on this to keep control over you even though they know it is legal for you to leave the system.


Get all the money you have ever paid into the system returned back to you with interest from the IRS. Again they will not willingly return your money.


Stop paying any more into the IRS, you can legally stop the stealing at the source with your employer.


The above is an instant and healthy raise in pay.


You will learn what the correct form(s) are for an American Citizen to use when filing your tax returns.
Plus as a Sovereign you can stop paying altogether.


You gain the ability to reverse the system back onto the courts or any other government agency and beat the pants off them in a way they cannot escape under common law.
This puts the lawyers and judges on the run from you.


You already have the ability to contract in an unlimited manner under the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) and with the knowledge gained you will be able to utilize all the codes to your advantage.


No lengthy legal battles in court over an alleged credit debt. Why?
Because as a Sovereign you are a foreigner to the UNITED STATES and as such they have no jurisdiction over you the living man or woman.
You are under no obligation to answer any summons from their system upon you.
For them to do so is to leave their jurisdiction and enter yours, this is illegal and impossible for them to enter the world of the living because they are just FICTIONS created by the living man to serve the living man.
There can be no right against that which the right depends.
This statement stems back to the creation of this country and was written by the founding fathers.


Paying off your debts with this program cannot be refused, if a bank refuses your bond, the uniform commercial code states, a debt tendered and refused is a debt discharge to the amount of tender UCC at 3-603(b).
If this were to happen from a bank you can turn them into the US Treasury for sedition against the UNITED STATES,
which they are subject to the jurisdiction of.


Totally avoid bankruptcy altogether by paying off all your debts no matter what it is with a BOND.
As long as it is with a bank or government system. (No personal debts with friends)


As a Sovereign you become the living man/woman again. Research this with a judge or attorney by asking them if the system can here the living man.
Tell them that you are not the fiction listed on their papers, but rather you are the living man/woman.
You will be told NO and if you are in a court room situation the case against you will likely be severely disrupted or even dropped altogether.
If you ask this question before any proceedings start they will likely throw the case out of court.

BACKGROUND
You have heard it said that you cannot sue the government, which is because the government or the state is Sovereign.
When you become a Sovereign again you also cannot be sued.
As you may have read elsewhere, BONDS are legal tender under UCC laws for paying off debts.

NOTE: If you are looking for an arbitration award from your credit cards which is usually a lengthy legal battle this is not the program for that.
This is just a cancellation of your debt directly with the bank.
If a bank tries to sue you later they cannot because a Sovereign cannot be sued in any court in the land, they just do not have jurisdiction.
They also cannot sue you later because the UCC laws say that a debt tendered and refused is a debt discharged UCC at 3-603(b)..

It is the doctrine of common law that the Sovereign cannot be sued in his own court without his consent. The Siren, 74 US 152 (1869).
A Sovereign operates strictly in common law and no statutory or civil court has any jurisdiction over the Sovereign.
You are the living breathing man or woman and the fictional legal systems have no jurisdiction over the living man, but you must first know this and use it to stop them from taking from you.

Q: You've listed the benefits - what are the cons?
A: Well that is a good question.

Here goes, The cons are usually that the courts refuse to deal with you once you tell them that you are a living Sovereign rather than a corporate fiction, OOPS that is a benefit isn't it.

There really aren't any cons other than some really bent on keeping you under control type people telling you that Sovereignty is not real and that the system has total control over you.

To further, explain this lets look at the American Indians as a people. The federal government has acknowledged their sovereignty as a matter of fact of law.
The treaties with the Indians state that they do not need a drivers license or a registration on their vehicles, they are not taxable by the federal gov, they are immune to the legal system that you are living under etc.

Now the ORIGINAL constitution of the US (not the incorporated version) also says that all Americans born on the land are Sovereign by God given right.

There is one con that does come to mind and that is that some judges will try to deny someone there Sovereignty in court by making a statement that your Sovereignty is denied by this court.
However most judges will not do that because no man or fictional court can make such a statement to a Sovereign, the reason is because they cannot make a legal determination against your choice of Citizenship,
if they do they can by held liable for going against the Constitution and the intent of the founding fathers.

From time to time, you will run into people that just don't know what Sovereignty is or how to react to you so they will just tell you that you should do as everybody else on some issue at hand.
They just don't understand.
When it comes to the IRS Sovereignty issues can cause some negative threatening letters from them but there are many ways to handle that issue.

We all have the right to become that Sovereign again and that is a matter of law found in the constitution and public policy.
Our founding fathers wanted Americans to live free of the tyranny and control that they fought to get away from.
Therefore, the cons are really very small in comparison to the benefits.

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  #2 (permalink)
 JohnnyAustin 
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What does little kids having to fork over $50 for a biz license and police infringing on rights have anything to do with your stated thread title?

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 Gabriyele 
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JohnnyAustin View Post
What does little kids having to fork over $50 for a biz license and police infringing on rights have anything to do with your stated thread title?


I just wanted to start the thread,
therefore i posted the first thing that will be leading more into what you think this will become

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 eudamonia 
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I fail to see the point in a rhetoric article such as the one you posted. What is the specific action item(s) I should take away from this?

Every empire or state has eventually fallen due to a corrupt leadership. Even Rome only lasted so long. So statements about the sanctity of the consistution don't really mean anything. All governments are inherently corrupt - its just a matter of degree. As Winston Churchill stated, "it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried".

Regarding police power and the power of the state, it is a time proven fact that the populace will put up with a lot because the good outweighs the bad or because there isn't enough collective outrage to reduce personal risk to near zero. A good example of this are the recent riots in England. Rioting grew exponentially as the personal risk/cost approached a significantly low threshold. It helped that most of the rioters had little to lose or felt they had little to lose. If they actually had a compelling reason to riot (like we've seen in some of the Arab spring countries) there is a good chance that the government would have fallen.

Regarding the lemonade stand outrage I'll just say this. There are smarter ways to teach your child to be an entrepreneur these days. Selling lemonade on the street corner is dumb. Is it as dumb as the politics that created these licensing rules? No. But it is still dumb. Smart entrepreneurs look for weakly/non explored opportunities. They don't attempt to participate in an oversaturated market where they can produce no edge. 99% of the time mommy and daddy fund these pointless lemonade stands to live vicariously through their children. This doesn't teach the child to actually embrace the spirit of entrepreneurship.

As far as actually achieving personal sovereignty there are plenty of resources out there on the 5 flags concept (which is what I assume you are inferring). The problem with the 5 flags approach for traders is that the markets are inherently connected. Some novice traders think that if they have an edge that they are immune from the fluctuations in the markets and that no government can touch them. Nothing could be further from the truth. The markets make us all interconnected. Western governments could impose a lethal transaction tax across all of the major marketspaces. If a major superpower like the U.S. were to fall into chaos the markets would never be the same and many small traders would never recover (or perhaps never regain access to adequately liquid markets). Even if a trader were to acquire a vast sum of personal wealth, follow 5 flags religiously, and live out of a suitcase, they are not immune to the rest of the world and its problems.

Since we cannot hide from the world and its problems my suggested action item would be to educate the general public about the benefits of highly liquid markets (which us traders both admire and derive our livelihood from). There is a tremendous amount of bad PR about daytraders, wallstreet, and the markets themselves that is both incomplete and often not true. Small daytraders in particular seem to have no voice and are often derided and demonized in the media. Part of the reason for this is that it is almost impossible to imagine a world without liquid markets. However, the reality is that the current world economy is highly reliant upon these markets and without them we would go back to the economies of a pre-industrial era.

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 Gabriyele 
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eudamonia View Post
I fail to see the point in a rhetoric article such as the one you posted. What is the specific action item(s) I should take away from this?

Every empire or state has eventually fallen due to a corrupt leadership. Even Rome only lasted so long. So statements about the sanctity of the consistution don't really mean anything. All governments are inherently corrupt - its just a matter of degree. As Winston Churchill stated, "it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried".

Regarding police power and the power of the state, it is a time proven fact that the populace will put up with a lot because the good outweighs the bad or because there isn't enough collective outrage to reduce personal risk to near zero. A good example of this are the recent riots in England. Rioting grew exponentially as the personal risk/cost approached a significantly low threshold. It helped that most of the rioters had little to lose or felt they had little to lose. If they actually had a compelling reason to riot (like we've seen in some of the Arab spring countries) there is a good chance that the government would have fallen.

Regarding the lemonade stand outrage I'll just say this. There are smarter ways to teach your child to be an entrepreneur these days. Selling lemonade on the street corner is dumb. Is it as dumb as the politics that created these licensing rules? No. But it is still dumb. Smart entrepreneurs look for weakly/non explored opportunities. They don't attempt to participate in an oversaturated market where they can produce no edge. 99% of the time mommy and daddy fund these pointless lemonade stands to live vicariously through their children. This doesn't teach the child to actually embrace the spirit of entrepreneurship.


thank you, for your spirited comment eudamonia, I promise,
as soon as i'm done with the today's session i shall post the words behind the veil

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  #6 (permalink)
 Gabriyele 
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Now it looks better, the first page that is!

That is the basic concept of this thread!!!

Your comments are most welcomed!!

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  #7 (permalink)
 JohnnyAustin 
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Why is so much redacted?

Many thanks to the site and all the contributors. Great source of info.
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  #8 (permalink)
 Gabriyele 
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JohnnyAustin View Post
Why is so much redacted?



fixed!

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  #9 (permalink)
 eudamonia 
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Yep sounds like 5 flags as I mentioned in my last post.

Additional flaws with this plan are as follows:

1) To even consider a 5 flags approach you need to be able to divest all your current business and property interests in your home country and have a completely mobile business. This may not be a huge deal for some but may be a large sticking point for others.

2) To achieve 5 flags you have to renounce citizenship with your home country and have gained citizenship elsewhere. Even if that country has lax laws and even if you don't live there you aren't truely sovereign as you describe it.

3) Good luck getting your money back from the IRS. Name one person who has done this successfully. As far as not paying going forward - you must renounce your citizenship (not an easy process) and you are no longer a legal citizen. Hence under most circumstances you would be able to visit the US for 90 days a year. Major downside for many people.

4) As far as not paying a parking fine good luck with that. Even when one visits another foreign country (which is essentially what you would be doing) you are subject to their laws. They may not be able to seize your money but they can certainly imprison you. Not fun.

5) As far as never being able to declare bankruptcy you have to file your assets in some country or the other. It would be harder for your creditors to come after your money but impossible isn't a word to be used in front of expensive armies of lawyers or the long arm of the Patriot Act. Just ask all the U.S. citizens who tried to hide their money from the IRS in Switzerland and elsewhere.

All of your revised description sounds like a cheesy advert (including the mention of a DVD). If your intention is to sell something here I can tell you my B.S. radar is on high alert. I'm used to snake oil "trading gurus" taking this tact. And although I am no mod I assure you this forum has a low tolerance for that type of thing.

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 Gabriyele 
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Thank You for your healthy dose of constructive comments!!!



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 Gabriyele 
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eudamonia View Post
Yep sounds like 5 flags as I mentioned in my last post.

Additional flaws with this plan are as follows:

1) To even consider a 5 flags approach you need to be able to divest all your current business and property interests in your home country and have a completely mobile business. This may not be a huge deal for some but may be a large sticking point for others.

2) To achieve 5 flags you have to renounce citizenship with your home country and have gained citizenship elsewhere. Even if that country has lax laws and even if you don't live there you aren't truely sovereign as you describe it.

3) Good luck getting your money back from the IRS. Name one person who has done this successfully. As far as not paying going forward - you must renounce your citizenship (not an easy process) and you are no longer a legal citizen. Hence under most circumstances you would be able to visit the US for 90 days a year. Major downside for many people.

4) As far as not paying a parking fine good luck with that. Even when one visits another foreign country (which is essentially what you would be doing) you are subject to their laws. They may not be able to seize your money but they can certainly imprison you. Not fun.

5) As far as never being able to declare bankruptcy you have to file your assets in some country or the other. It would be harder for your creditors to come after your money but impossible isn't a word to be used in front of expensive armies of lawyers or the long arm of the Patriot Act. Just ask all the U.S. citizens who tried to hide their money from the IRS in Switzerland and elsewhere.

All of your revised description sounds like a cheesy advert (including the mention of a DVD). If your intention is to sell something here I can tell you my B.S. radar is on high alert. I'm used to snake oil "trading gurus" taking this tact. And although I am no mod I assure you this forum has a low tolerance for that type of thing.


No, nothing to sell, absolutely nothing!
(nor do i really care!!)

And obviously, you have no idea what being a sovereign actually means,
because you most likely have have never heard about the subject before.

......and that is why i have started this thread.

You are about to awake from your comfortable slumber my dear eudamonia.

Perhaps start your questions with understanding the difference between:

The Constitution OF the United States of America

VS

The Constitution FOR the United States of America

How well do you truly understand the power of the written word, an English written word to be exact?

What is the difference between: Traveling VS Driving ?

Have you ever had a chance to read the above mentioned constitutions????

.......and the rabbit whole goes deeper

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 JohnnyAustin 
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So the Constitution, which I've seen at the Smithsonian, is fake and not the original Constitution? Please provide a link to such materials as you stated and not claims of capabilities. How would one know where to get a real copy vs a fake copy?

Also, seen this?
https://www.doj.state.wi.us:443/absolutenm/templates/template_share.aspx?articleid=1171&zoneid=3

https://www.adl.org/learn/sovereign_movement/list_recent_sovereign_incidents.pdf

Seems to be that most the ideals are radical in nature.

Many thanks to the site and all the contributors. Great source of info.
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  #13 (permalink)
 Gabriyele 
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JohnnyAustin View Post
So the Constitution, which I've seen at the Smithsonian, is fake and not the original Constitution? Please provide a link to such materials as you stated and not claims of capabilities. How would one know where to get a real copy vs a fake copy?

Also, seen this?
https://www.doj.state.wi.us:443/absolutenm/templates/template_share.aspx?articleid=1171&zoneid=3

https://www.adl.org/learn/sovereign_movement/list_recent_sovereign_incidents.pdf

Seems to be that most the ideals are radical in nature.




Will absolutely do so in given time
This will be a monster thread once everything comes forward.

We live in a world of commerce, and therefore we are given codes in the frame of "LAW" to adhere by them.

The Law of Gravity is the LAW, you can't deny it,
((...well perhaps with Tesla's technology you can, but that would be a whole other thread some other time

What i'm trying to express is that everything in the world of commerce is by contract.
And in the respect of that contract!

You can't call yourself a sovereign for as long as you are UNDER the contract with the government.

A lot of people try to, and those are the ones that you read about in the local newspapers.

I will slowly unwind this thread with time,
and will post the documentation to solidify the contract of understanding

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 eudamonia 
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Gabriyele View Post
No, nothing to sell, absolutely nothing!
(nor do i really care!!)

And obviously, you have no idea what being a sovereign actually means,
because you most likely have have never heard about the subject before.

......and that is why i have started this thread.

You are about to awake from your comfortable slumber my dear eudamonia.

Perhaps start your questions with understanding the difference between:

The Constitution OF the United States of America

VS

The Constitution FOR the United States of America

How well do you truly understand the power of the written word, an English written word to be exact?

What is the difference between: Traveling VS Driving ?

Have you ever had a chance to read the above mentioned constitutions????

.......and the rabbit whole goes deeper

Many vendors start with a similar claim. Let's just say I remain skeptical. Your mystical conspiracy theory hogwash adds nothing of value.

I'm not Neo and I won't be waking up in the Matrix. If you can't explain clearly what you mean so that a child could understand it then 1) you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, 2) you don't know what you are talking about. Perhaps both.

How about providing a concrete example? Sourced facts (if available) are a good way to make a reasoned arguement.

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 Gabriyele 
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LOL, I did mention about no sales being involved in here, i'm pretty sure that i have.

The burden of proof is not on my hands eudamonia.

My attempt is to have people respond not react to this thread.
And with that being said, I certainly will not be entertaining you at your request of showing you proof that i can dance.
This information is available widely anywhere to those that want to know.
You just have to do your own research.

And it is just that , an information, what you do with it,........your life, your choice

......the one rule of this game is pretty simple.
(At least in the eyes of the government, any government or anyone else!!)

If you don't know your rights, then you don't have any rights!!

My life is my responsibility, and it is up to me to learn about them.

People will complain about anything they can, except take responsibility for their life!
In all the ways we are programmed that way.

There is a big reason why we live the way that we do,
and it has nothing to do with life being the luck of the draw.

We live our lives by design
Our-own, or somebody else's.
And there is nothing mystical about this

If you can't understand it clearly, as to what I mean by this,
then this thread is simply not your cup of tea and that is all.

A child will not comprehend this, since you can not be a child and play this game.
Therefore I will not be writing it with any children in mind.
The P.R. and the Marketing will do that.
They will explain it so that the children can understand the product they are buying their way into.

(Have I mentioned yet how this is a no sale thread? )

We can always agree to disagree, and that is that.

Either way, I will continue slowly with an input of information in this thread, simply because I choose to

Yes, my dear eudamonia your comments will always be apreciated Thank You!!!

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 JohnnyAustin 
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I can fly, no RLY, I can! I'm not here to sell you the feathers and glue or the airplane, but it can be done. The information is everywhere, so there's no need for me to tell you how I did it...

Here and there I'll provide tidbits of info, like gravity is a theory and how I went about debunking this "theory".

Sorry man, skepticism abounds here when referring to things like how to legally defraud the gov't and fellow citizens.

Many thanks to the site and all the contributors. Great source of info.
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 Gabriyele 
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JohnnyAustin View Post
I can fly, no RLY, I can! I'm not here to sell you the feathers and glue or the airplane, but it can be done. The information is everywhere, so there's no need for me to tell you how I did it...

Here and there I'll provide tidbits of info, like gravity is a theory and how I went about debunking this "theory".

Sorry man, skepticism abounds here when referring to things like how to legally defraud the gov't and fellow citizens.


Thank you, Johnny Austin now that was a response!

It takes a long while to start understanding how the system works, legally speaking.

For example, do you know how the TV operates, what brings the picture/sound/ and how ?
Or again how about gravity??
What makes it work?
For the most part of the questions like these you don't get it, i don't get it!
But we run it anyways

Yes, there are people that truly want to learn.
And they endeavor in that direction regardless of how others might be feeling about it and about them pursuing it!!

Organized church have claimed for a very long time that the Earth is flat,
and that we have no place in questioning such things.
And that we would be punished if we did so!
And naturally if we do question the status, then we would be are considered the conspiracy nutcases!!

Now, why would they do such a thing?

Who gains in knowledge and knowing, and who does not??

Citizen is a commercial term for a person.

A person ( plural: persons or people; from Latin: persona, meaning " mask")

Have you read about the 14th amendement, and how it all started ?

This is far from defrauding, if anything, it is enlightening to know this!
(in my opinion

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 JohnnyAustin 
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https://info.publicintelligence.net/ACTIC-SovereignCitizen.pdf

Many thanks to the site and all the contributors. Great source of info.
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 Gabriyele 
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remember Galileo Galilei,.....

and what happened to him when he started asking questions about this planets relationship to the Sun

What did the church do?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_galilei

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 JohnnyAustin 
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The Church put him under house arrest. But asking questions to further science is a far cry from pouring through sometimes and sometimes not legal documents and spreading violence through murder, all just not to get a speeding or parking ticket.

I DO understand how gravity works and how a TV operates, the theory of electricity, etc etc.

What is enlightening to know? Did you find the path to enlightenment?

Many thanks to the site and all the contributors. Great source of info.
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 Gabriyele 
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'Social Engineering in the 20th Century'


....the driving force of the today's society is not love, but fear!
Why we behave the way that we do? It's because we are conditioned to do so!!
Would you like to make another human bark like a dog,....well this is how you do it!




This documentary is free,

......and this is the link where you can see it ------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFskGTkW9m8


P.S.
keep an open mind!

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 zt379 
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"Consuming Kids" Documentary


"Every moment I wake up I realize I know nothing, and then I smile..." zt379
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 Gabriyele 
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-Murder by Injection!




-----> Eustace Mullins - Murder by Injection (Full Length) - YouTube


Medicine is a BIG business.

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 Gabriyele 
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The Federal Reserve System, privately owned, Fiscal Agent of the United States by Eustace Mullins

----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95mJrIMX3LM&feature=related

It's about the FRN's, the elastic surrency, that is issued against the interest bearing government bonds

And the connection of the Federal Reserve System to the IRS

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 zt379 
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Thx for the links Gabriyele.
It's surprising how much info came out during the 1950's to 70's.

This is a presentation by Anthony Sutton in 1976 that may be of interest.
He's even talking about (back in the 1970's) the dangers of (or direction towards) SDR's.(Special Drawing Rights).
Well ahead of his times I think.

Antony Sutton Lecture 1976 - Part 1 - YouTube

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 Gabriyele 
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ThankYou ZT

absolutely true!! You'd think we ought to know better by now


----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=14kP1eyoeFs

about the Court Procedures.

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 zt379 
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Here's an interesting radio interview on Red Ice: (If you don't already know of it, you'll have some fun on this site I think )

Red Ice Radio - Joseph P. Farrell - Babylon's Banksters, Nazi International & Global Finanical Blackmail

"Every moment I wake up I realize I know nothing, and then I smile..." zt379
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 Gabriyele 
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---->>> How To Make a Judge Run Out Of The Court Room - YouTube

Great information :-) ....hear what the word BAR means :-)

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 Gabriyele 
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and this was actually taken from the CNN


--->> This is all I needed to hear! - YouTube

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 Gabriyele 
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you do need some time to watch this one.

Loads of information on & about the constitution.


---->> Michael Badnarik's Constitution Class 1 of 43 - YouTube

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 Gabriyele 
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the perfect explanation of the legalese!!

You ought to have an open mind for this one!

------------>> The Strawman Illusion 1 of 10 - YouTube



WHAT DO THESE WORDS HAVE IN COMMON?
Registration ?
Application ?
Submission ?


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 kbit 
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I like your thread....I'm just waiting for the step by step instructions on getting back all my taxes and social security money....seriously though this is an interesting thread, thanks

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kbit View Post
I like your thread....I'm just waiting for the step by step instructions on getting back all my taxes and social security money....seriously though this is an interesting thread, thanks


watch/listen The Strawman Illusion kbit, the post# 31

J.Anderson is very good in explaining how things operate in the world of commenrce

It will change your life! It changed mine.

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This is total nonsense.

I know someone that brought into the above. He went through all the procedures and indeed stopped paying tax.

The end result was the IRS came after him and took his house. Unsurprisingly, his wife left him because of it. He also lost his job too.

Only nutjobs & fruitcakes will buy into this.

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 Gabriyele 
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DionysusToast View Post
This is total nonsense.

I know someone that brought into the above. He went through all the procedures and indeed stopped paying tax.

The end result was the IRS came after him and took his house. Unsurprisingly, his wife left him because of it. He also lost his job too.

Only nutjobs & fruitcakes will buy into this.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, DionysusToast,

and i'm most certainly happy that I do not share yours!

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Gabriyele View Post
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, DionysusToast,

and i'm most certainly happy that I do not share yours!

I stated facts.

How far along this process are you yourself? How long have you been 'opted out' of the tax system in the US?

This is presuming that you actually earn money and that the amount you earn (if any) is enough to be taxable...

What you are espousing here has ruined the lives of 2 people I know. They were naive enough to believe it but the reality is you can't opt out of the US tax system if you are in the country.

You need to leave the US AND denounce your citizenship before you can be exempt.

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 Gabriyele 
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DionysusToast View Post
I stated facts.

How far along this process are you yourself? How long have you been 'opted out' of the tax system in the US?

This is presuming that you actually earn money and that the amount you earn (if any) is enough to be taxable...

What you are espousing here has ruined the lives of 2 people I know. They were naive enough to believe it but the reality is you can't opt out of the US tax system if you are in the country.

You need to leave the US AND denounce your citizenship before you can be exempt.


You have stated the facts, and I haven't refuted what you have said. I would never do that.
For better or for worse this rabbit whole is quite deep.

And for the people that do get to know this information, and plan to act on it ought to truly arm themselves with knowledge,
because your life is changed forever.

I'am truly sorry about your friends.
I myself have a good number of friends as well, and know of many others, that have tried and failed to accomplish the same.

Some with far worse consequences and some with a lot less.

This is not about leaving the American soil.
It is about understanding how the system works, acknowledging the rules of the game that we are all playing.

I'm moving deeper down the rabbit whole, and with everyday i feel better with myself by just knowing.
Your friends are brave to act on what they have learned, unfortunately their timing was not right.
In order to do this correctly, you do have to arm your self with information, and I do mean arm yourself!
Since there is a lot of hogwash noise placed about to lead you astray.

It is very similar to trading.
You have to know when to sell and when to buy and when to just sit and wait.

I wish you well DionysusToast

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Gabriyele View Post
Your friends are brave to act on what they have learned, unfortunately their timing was not right.
In order to do this correctly, you do have to arm your self with information, and I do mean arm yourself!
Since there is a lot of hogwash noise placed about to lead you astray.

These people were not brave. They were gullible. You are gullible.

You are claiming here that it is possible to opt out of the system. Still, you have not opted out yourself. You do not know anyone that has successfully opted out.

I know of one person that has opted out of the US system. He gave up his US passport and became a Thai National.

There is nothing you can do whilst on US soil. Nothing at all.

Read all the crackpot websites you like. You are spreading disinformation here. You have not managed to achieve what you say is possible yourself.

You are obviously excited about this - but it's a dead end. It is a total waste of your time and a danger to those who believe you are some sort of expert in these matters when all you are doing is regurgitating nonsense from the internet.

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 Gabriyele 
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DionysusToast View Post
These people were not brave. They were gullible. You are gullible.

You are claiming here that it is possible to opt out of the system. Still, you have not opted out yourself. You do not know anyone that has successfully opted out.

I know of one person that has opted out of the US system. He gave up his US passport and became a Thai National.

There is nothing you can do whilst on US soil. Nothing at all.

Read all the crackpot websites you like. You are spreading disinformation here. You have not managed to achieve what you say is possible yourself.

You are obviously excited about this - but it's a dead end. It is a total waste of your time and a danger to those who believe you are some sort of expert in these matters when all you are doing is regurgitating nonsense from the internet.


As I have so eloquently wrote earlier.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and i'm happy that i do not share yours.

I am not craming down your throat any of this.
This is simply a door that you don't have to open.

You have expressed your opinion.
So allow me to express mine.

We are both conscientious human beings that are here to learn.

I am certainly not telling you what is nonsense and am not expecting you to tell me what is.
So let me and this thread be.

This thread is for entertainment and curiosity purposes, and i'm not selling or providing any advice.

Enjoy your day!

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 Big Mike 
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DionysusToast View Post
You are gullible

While I share most of your views about this thread, I do not welcome name calling on this forum. Keep it civil guys. This is a discussion forum. Discuss! But keep things civil and be on your best behavior. Even the off-topic forum needs some rules...

Mike

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Big Mike View Post
While I share most of your views about this thread, I do not welcome name calling on this forum. Keep it civil guys. This is a discussion forum. Discuss! But keep things civil and be on your best behavior. Even the off-topic forum needs some rules...

Mike

Mike - I am quite suprised you allow this stuff on your board.

Not my post - but the stuff in this thread.

There are people out there that have lost everything through believing this stuff. This is a cult and make no doubt that this thread is about recruiting people into that cult.

Also - anyone believing this stuff is gullible. It is not name calling, it is a statement of fact. Of course, like all good scams it works on the greed of the victim. The OP may well be a scammer or may well be being scammed themselves.

The fact is - you cannot avoid the IRS. It doesn't matter what you declare yourself as, they will come and take your belongings if you do not pay.

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 Big Mike 
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Like I said, I agree that the stuff in this thread is of no interest to me and is pure science fiction. That said, this is the off-topic section, and I have no need to come into this thread and try to dispute what is being said. I don't have time for that, do you?

If you have a problem with a post:
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2) Use the report post feature.
3) Ignore the user, click their username, then click Ignore.

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 futuretrader 
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Gabriyele View Post
As I have so eloquently wrote earlier.



As a sovereign, do you intend to create and maintain your own infrastructure? (By which I mean not merely transportation, power and communication systems, but also all the various mechanisms for ensuring health, safety, security, etc.)

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 Tiberius 
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I am more afraid of the self-righteous then the wing-nuts. Too bad my opinions of 40 years ago changed to 20 years ago are totally different then today and hopefully different than 20 years from now. I hate change.

Brother Gabriyele if you are back from palates or your mid day nap, go to Phils Gang . He has a show at 3:00 PM eastern. Phil is self promoting but beyond that there are little gems of info on the market.

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Big Mike View Post
Like I said, I agree that the stuff in this thread is of no interest to me and is pure science fiction. That said, this is the off-topic section, and I have no need to come into this thread and try to dispute what is being said. I don't have time for that, do you?

If you have a problem with a post:
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2) Use the report post feature.
3) Ignore the user, click their username, then click Ignore.

Mike


I hear you.

I guess I just get annoyed when people post stuff that could seriously damage somebodies life.

Like the snake oil salesmen we see in the trading world, promising riches. They take people's money and even worse, people put their hard earned cash on the line to no avail.

As it is with this stuff.

The net potential benefit to anyone reading this is zero.
The net potential loss to anyone reading this is a loss of your house and family.

I know people are naive and you can't protect people. People will make their own mistakes.

Still, I think giving these people airtime, when there is only downside, is a risk not worth taking.

I still love you though....

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 Gabriyele 
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ok, moving on!

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 Gabriyele 
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Tiberius View Post
I am more afraid of the self-righteous then the wing-nuts. Too bad my opinions of 40 years ago changed to 20 years ago are totally different then today and hopefully different than 20 years from now. I hate change.

Brother Gabriyele if you are back from palates or your mid day nap, go to Phils Gang . He has a show at 3:00 PM eastern. Phil is self promoting but beyond that there are little gems of info on the market.

I agree with you 1000%

ThankYou brother Tiberius!

I have marked the site. Will listen to him a bit later when he goes live.

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 Gabriyele 
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futuretrader View Post


As a sovereign, do you intend to create and maintain your own infrastructure? (By which I mean not merely transportation, power and communication systems, but also all the various mechanisms for ensuring health, safety, security, etc.)


My take on being a sovereign is that you make your own bed.
You don't let other people do it for you.
Why is the Queen Elilzabeth a sovereign?
Just because she has a title of the Queen, or is there something more?
What is the meaning of the word sovereign!

You reap what you sow basically.

We live in a commenrical world where the majority of us are being treated as a commodity, a human resource.

By the self-righteous groups that believe have the know-how to tell you what to do,
what to believe in and everything else in the name of your own protection.

I am not saying abandon everything and live on an island
(although that is not such a bad idea when i think about it),

but there ought to be a limit to this madness we call the society!

In order to operate in this commercial world, you first have to have sound money.
Money that is backed by value!
Not the paper note that was printed by the private company and then labeled legal tender by the government.

And that is why it is called the Federal Reserve Note, it belongs to the Fed, NOT The United States Note!

As i have mentioned it earlier, this rabbit whole runs deep, centuries deep.

Being a sovereign, in my opinion, puts everyone on the same playing field.
America prior to the Federal Reserve System had no taxes, period!
And was the most prosperous country in the world, people were happy,
since they were able to actually save and create their life, and enjoy it!!

As oppose to in Europe where you were dependent on your king/queen to tell you what to do!
Americans were born free they were born sovereign.

IRS Taxes came about to pay for the loans that the governemnt is taking from this private bank.
Not one penny of our taxes goes to pay for anything you have just mentioned above.

National debt? What is that ? Have you ever asked yourself that question?
Inflation? What is that? How do you have an inflation?

The Government, any government can print it's own money interest free!! Why they don't do that?
Why is the government choosing instead to pay fees plus interest to the group of private bankers to do it's job?

The constitution of this country certainly says that only silver and gold can be the legal tender.
As our politicians are so hell bent for the constitution, why aren't they listening to it?


The politicians become liable for the money that they would print.

The Federal Reserve is not liable to anyone but it's owners, the people that own the stock in that bank.
And that certainly is not you or myself.
And that is why the politicians like central bankers, since they,
the bankers give them all the paper notes/money/ that they need.

I can talk about this all day long, and i can because i read and do my do dilligence.

And that is all that i'm intending to do with this thread,
make posts on the things i come about in my research.
That is all!


P.S
The ultimate ignorance for myself is the rejection of something I know nothing about and my refusal to investigate!

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 Peter2150 
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Way back read a good definition of reality

Reality isn't the way we wish things are.
Reality isn't the way things out to be
Reality is in fact the way things are.


This read has ideas on how people wish things are: Unfortunately it missing a bunch of reality.

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 Gabriyele 
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The reading material for those that choose to do so!



The idea is to never be in dishonor, silence is dishonor, argument is dishonor, asking questions is not dishonor,

asking for facts is not dishonor, opinions of the judge, district attorney or court officer are not facts.

When they use the word State for instance, That is an opinion,

To prove that it is meerly an opinion not based in fact, ......ask yourself this question: "What in fact is a State?"

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 Gabriyele 
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Peter2150 View Post
Way back read a good definition of reality

Reality isn't the way we wish things are.
Reality isn't the way things out to be
Reality is in fact the way things are.


This read has ideas on how people wish things are: Unfortunately it missing a bunch of reality.

..........our reality is the one that we all created together, together!

And together we can alter it as well.

Obviously our history will keep repeating itself until we are fed up with it, and start creating new choices.

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  #52 (permalink)
 Tiberius 
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I thought reality was how an individual interprets and understands their life experiences. Not, how someone else defines them.

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  #53 (permalink)
 futuretrader 
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Gabriyele View Post
I can talk about this all day long, and i can because i read and do my do dilligence.

It no doubt helps that you just string together rhetorical phrases rather than constructing any actual argument.

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 Gabriyele 
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futuretrader View Post
It no doubt helps that you just string together rhetorical phrases rather than constructing any actual argument.

it no doubt helps to be ignorant.

Do yourself a favor and start reading Tragedy & Hope by Carroll Quigley

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 Tiberius 
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Gabriyele View Post
it no doubt helps to be ignorant.

Do yourself a favor and start reading Tragedy & Hope by Carroll Quigley


Carroll Quigley, he is one of my favorite past Globalist.

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  #56 (permalink)
 JohnnyAustin 
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There's a TON of crap in the previous posts by the OP, such as no taxes prior to the Federal Reserve. Of COURSE there were taxes prior to the Federal Reserve. They were called Tarriff's in the late 1700's (after the Constitution was drafted and signed), and later the income tax included a property tax which had been in place since 1634. The first Federal income tax was called The Revenue Act and it was implemented in 1861.


Quoting 
America prior to the Federal Reserve System had no taxes, period!
And was the most prosperous country in the world, people were happy,
since they were able to actually save and create their life, and enjoy it!!

So now that a SIMPLE google search and click on the first link has proven your statement to be a flat out lie, which proves your due diligence is obviously lacking in fruitful research. Furthermore, the "People" were not happy, i.e. the Civil War which killed millions and ended slavery. This is what made America prosperous. Free labor, i.e. slave labor, has historically been that which has catapulted civilizations to greatness, be it the Romans, Mongols (although they were more conquerors than anything else), Great Britain, and even America.

It seems you are regurgitating that which you read without any actual investigation of your own which is an incredible disservice to your own intelligence as well as to your own journey into this whole "sovereign" ideology. No one who is telling you this info has any care in the world about your fate.

Many thanks to the site and all the contributors. Great source of info.
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 futuretrader 
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Gabriyele View Post
it no doubt helps to be ignorant.

Do yourself a favor and start reading Tragedy & Hope by Carroll Quigley

So instead of constructing an argument you resort to ad hominem attacks and appeals to authority. Shouldn't a sovereign stand on his or her own two feet?

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  #58 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
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While I share most of your views about this thread, I do not welcome name calling on this forum. Keep it civil guys. This is a discussion forum. Discuss! But keep things civil and be on your best behavior. Even the off-topic forum needs some rules...

Mike


DionysusToast View Post
Mike - I am quite suprised you allow this stuff on your board.

Not my post - but the stuff in this thread.

There are people out there that have lost everything through believing this stuff. This is a cult and make no doubt that this thread is about recruiting people into that cult.

Also - anyone believing this stuff is gullible. It is not name calling, it is a statement of fact. Of course, like all good scams it works on the greed of the victim. The OP may well be a scammer or may well be being scammed themselves.

The fact is - you cannot avoid the IRS. It doesn't matter what you declare yourself as, they will come and take your belongings if you do not pay.

@DionysusToast

I agree with Mike about keeping things civil. (I think you also alluded to "idiots" and "fools")

Will this topic is not one I have time to pursue I do believe in people being allowed to share information and ideas.
People who spoke out against the Vietnam war were attacked.
People who spoke out against the illegal invasion of Iraq were attacked.
I watched the 60minutes video - a smear campaign for sure (imho).

I think if your motivations are to help protect people perhaps it would be better to start a separate thread and give some details about your friends. I know the IRS can be brutal and I have heard of people who unfairly lost their homes to the IRS (nothing do do with this thread).
---------------
I know Gabrieyele has generously shared a lot of her trading ideas on this forum and I commend her for it.

I will try to set aside some time to watch the videos on social engineering.

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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 Gabriyele 
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futuretrader View Post
So instead of constructing an argument you resort to ad hominem attacks and appeals to authority. Shouldn't a sovereign stand on his or her own two feet?

I am, and i am not here to hold anyone's hand in the process.

And i'm certainly making sure that i only live off what the market gives me.

You live in the UK? .........ever heard of John Harris ?












an excellent presentation ----> John Harris - It's an illusion Part 1/5 - YouTube



what would be your take on this?

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  #60 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
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JohnnyAustin View Post
There's a TON of crap in the previous posts by the OP, such as no taxes prior to the Federal Reserve. Of COURSE there were taxes prior to the Federal Reserve. They were called Tarriff's in the late 1700's (after the Constitution was drafted and signed), and later the income tax included a property tax which had been in place since 1634. The first Federal income tax was called The Revenue Act and it was implemented in 1861.

....

wiki shows income tax starting in 1913
1913 - 2010

Historical marginal income tax rates for Married Filing Jointly at stated income levels. [3]
Year 1913 =1%

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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  #61 (permalink)
 Gabriyele 
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Thank You, aquarian

I pressed IGNORE button on the Johnny Austin and another fellow, that i can't remember,...Dionysus Toast.
They can vent their fears elswhere!

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  #62 (permalink)
 futuretrader 
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Gabriyele View Post
I am, and i am not here to hold anyone's hand in the process.

And i'm certainly making sure that i only live off what the market gives me.

You live in the UK? .........ever heard of John Harris ?


----> John Harris - It's an illusion Part 1/5 - YouTube

what would be your take on this?


I don't live in any particular country, and I'm no longer in the UK - and I can assure you I don't want or require any hand-holding.

Is John Harris another of your authority figures? I'm still waiting for you to offer a coherent argument for, or even a coherent statement of, your own position.

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 Gabriyele 
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futuretrader View Post
I don't live in any particular country, and I'm no longer in the UK - and I can assure you I don't want or require any hand-holding.

Is John Harris another of your authority figures? I'm still waiting for you to offer a coherent argument for, or even a coherent statement of, your own position.

Look, futuretrader, watch the you tube video that i have posted about John Harris and his research.
And we'll talk some more.
And since you don't live in any particular country i'll take it you r pretty familiar with this stuff regardless.

My position should be obvious by now, I did start this thread as my point of view,
no need to confirm anything else.

Live your life the way you'd like to.

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  #64 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
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The Federal Reserve System (also known as the Federal Reserve, and informally as the Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. It was created in 1913 with the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act,


some videos
The banking cartel, its supporter (the Fed), and money creation: https://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=6507136891691870450%26hl

Fiat money illegal:
https://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=5232639329002339531

The creation of the American worldwide empire with bribery and CIA: https://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=7065205277695921912
(The first part is good - his "solution" the second part I didn't bother with)

i hope the links are still good

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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  #65 (permalink)
 Gabriyele 
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if you'd like to see/hear more, ...go to --->



P.S.
this is worldwide!!

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  #66 (permalink)
 eddwfo 
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DISCLAIMER: The following is strictly an opinion I have formed from my own research and reflects information I have obtained from a large number of sources. I have personally done nothing more extreme than creating a Gov. approved Nevada Corporation to conduct business with instead of conduction business in my own name.
*********************************************

The foundation of Personal Freedom is Secrecy. This Secrecy does not include “Failure to Report” that which is required by law to report. It only includes not reporting that which is not required by law to report. Therefore the most Personal Freedom is obtained by arranging your life to be without any legal requirement to report your activities. Easy to say, and not so easy to accomplish, eh? (grin)

The 5 Flags concept is the only effective and legal method of accomplishing ALMOST total Personal Freedom that I am aware of. BUT, I have not seen the proper implementation of this concept on-line. Ownership begets liability, and that is one of the keys to the success of this concept. When one has no ownership and no one knows who you are, one has no legal reporting requirements and any possible whistle blowers cannot report that you have any relationship to anything anywhere to the Gov. for a reward. Success can only come as a result of having control of the 5 Flags entities without ownership of any of them or their agents and functioning as an anonymous agent, both to all of them, and remaining anonymous to them during all transactions involving them. This can legally be done and there are businesses that support this arrangement.

This means that not even your wife/husband can know any of what is considered evidence of the details about this business arraignment. Any possible results of a divorce must be avoided. All communication must be done by encrypted email and/or phones and never include your real name or signature. I will leave it to your imagination as to how this can be accomplished, and I do believe it can be done.

True freedom can only come from not having your name on anything. No paper trail at all. Acceptable freedom can be obtained in spite of the birth certificate, and other records from your life, as long as you do nothing to trigger a lookup on these records. Conduct your life without signing contracts, applications and avoid being arrested or even accused of breaking a law, as a beginning.

Obviously this is not for everyone, and certainly not for me. However, 20 – 30 years ago I am quite certain I would have been more interested in doing something like this, but not now.

It is obvious that one of the keys to this Personal Freedom goal is secrecy. The reason the Gov. has so many reporting requirements is to kill the power that secrecy gives to it's volunteer slaves. Discover how to conduct business and life without reporting anything to anyone and you have discovered the key to freedom. It really is that simple.

Avoid the nonsense of claiming one is immune to and not under the jurisdiction of , or any other such nonsense as is found everywhere on-line. Going to court with any of that nonsense is giving up all secrecy and all of the power secrecy gives to you. To learn more about what does not work, go to
Quatloos! • View forum - Sovereign Citizen and Redemption Scams
and select any subject of choice for a couple of million words describing what doesn't work and why it doesn't work.

For an example of some good information available about related Gov. approved stuff, go to
The Sovereign Society

Since I am not going to provide a URL for any Personal Freedom site I might know of, here is what you should be looking for when you are doing your due diligence on this subject.

IMHO, Anyone interested in regaining the thing we call “Personal Freedom from all of the Gov. restrictions to that previous freedom we read about in the history books”, must be completely clear about the following basic concepts.

It is extremely important to ONLY work with people who understand what this "Personal Freedom business" is really all about. If they ask you for your name or other ID, just say goodbye.

There is a tendency for many people interested in pursuing the concept of getting back their personal freedom, to quickly become overwhelmed –mostly because they CANNOT find the information they really need... At least not without paying for it...

It is not because they are stupid. It is because the critical information simply isn’t where they look... Everybody on-line presents only some small bits and pieces of the truth, and it is not always the same truth, as they work from different scenarios, with different solutions... and about 90% of it is obviously just marketing BS and/or an outright SCAM.

NOBODY with a valid strategy in this Personal Freedom industry is so inept that they display in public exactly how their strategies work! And if they do, they don’t survive long. Web pages are also readily available for Gov. agents to check... As are ordinary e-mails... in fact, all e-mails originating from or arriving at a U.S. based server is scanned by the Gov.'s robots. Privacy only exists in the history books for most Americans.

Even though there are totally legal strategies that never do anything illegal, it is still outright stupid to tell the Gov. enemy what weapons are available and how they are to be used! David didn't tell Goliath about his slingshot, did he? And Gov.'s are quick to make new laws and new regulations that make it increasingly more difficult and tricky to avoid its all-encompassing control attempts. If you want your freedom, you have to accept this as a threat to that freedom and learn to conduct your life accordingly.

The really tricky question now becomes, "how does one do the due diligence, when one cannot even check out the people/business before one does business with them?"

Well, you CAN check on them – but you cannot do it in the traditional way by calling BBB or some Gov. supported consumer protection agency. They know NOTHING about foreign businesses... and those the Gov. does know about, are those you will avoid at all costs.

One must first discover what it takes to accomplish the goal and then question the knowledge of the entity who offers any likely solution for an acceptable result for that goal. And again, if you are asked for your name, just say goodbye. Do have an anonymous email address for further communication and possibly for doing business with them, without ever giving up your true ID.

Going 5 Flags means balancing on a very fine edge between taking full advantage of the law and avoidance of crossing the line to what your Gov. will perceive as crime – or at least attempt to nail you on it, as if it were a crime. Let it be no secret that your Gov. certainly does NOT want you to go 5 Flags and avoid the Taxes it would otherwise collect from you!

For that very reason, it wants EVERYTHING REGISTERED and declared– and there went your privacy and asset protection along with the freedom from Tax demands...!

It remains a fact of life that what is known to the Gov. is known also to anyone else who wants to get that knowledge. The Gov. is too big to keep secrets effectively – and it is the first in line to misuse and abuse the information it collects.

Just the fact that over 15% of all Americans have been subject to identity theft should speak for itself when it comes to assessing how "safe" your data in public registries actually is. That’ is exactly where the thieves get all of the information they need for identity theft!

Be clear about the fact that EVERYTHING you can legally do in your own country to maintain control over your belongings is more or less covered by the Gov.'s specifications behind the Tax return – and if you attempt to do anything outside of your country with those same procedures, you will simply end up in the Gov.'s trap! Going 5 Flags is NOT just a matter of moving one's transactions to another country. It is first and foremost a matter of totally changing the way you do business and live your life!

People who suggest that you "just start by setting up a bank account in a foreign country" or “they will set up a trust, and provide the trusty and the bank account” have no clue about the Gov's powers and no clue about U.S. Law... Avoid these people like the plague!

Avoid expatriation. It is unnecessary, and removes a lot of the power of secrecy.

So, be careful about whom you contract to help you in this arena.


I remind anyone looking into any program/offer dealing with this subject to go to
Quatloos! • View forum - Sovereign Citizen and Redemption Scams
and check out any rebuttal to your program/offer or idea before going any farther with it.

And I have my fire-suit on, so respond however you see fit, I can handle it. (grin)

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  #67 (permalink)
 Gabriyele 
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https://www.thehiddenrecords.com/


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  #68 (permalink)
 eddwfo 
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Gab, I get that you will be interested in this gal's view of freedom.



Let's play a game called My Kick-Ass Life!

Imagine that you woke up this morning from a luscious slumber and felt totally stoked about all the cool things that you get to do. Matter of fact, this week is full of awesomeness and you can't wait to jump into your day and get started!

What would you have for breakfast?

Who would you be excited to see?

What are you most looking forward to doing?

You head to work knowing that you will be spending your time totally engrossed in your work, and surrounded by people who are excited by what you bring to the table. You know this is what your meant to be doing....no doubt about it.

How would knowing this feel?

Time flies by, and next thing you know it's time to wrap things up and head out for some fun! You hook up with your peeps and have a blast doing what you do best! It feels good to let your freak flag fly and be yourself!

What would this look like for you?

Your life ROCKS and you're so freaking glad that you decided to take the time, and do the work necessary to break free of that soul sucking pre-packaged life that you were living! Man, that way of life sucked it hard and you feel so

Your life ROCKS and you're so freaking glad that you decided to take the time to do the work necessary to break free of that soul sucking pre-packaged life that you were living!

Man, that way of life sucked it hard and you feel so relieved not to wake up dreading having to go to a crappy job and doing things you don't really care about.

Bask in the juicy goodness of this for a minute.

That was fun!

Want to do it for real?

Leah Shapiro
Kick-Ass Life Coach
http://defythebox.com/?awt_l=Fobs7&awt_m=3jrWZDgpRwN5D40

Disclaimer: I have not purchased her product and I am not an affiliate. I simply love and live her attitude. (grin)

My key to this lifestyle/outlook has been a 1917 book "The Master Key System" by Charles Haanel. Available from Amazon or as a free eBook from whitedovebooks in the UK as well as other sources.

I have found that living in the now by the MKS makes the sovereign issue a non-issue to me. Try it, you might like it. (grin)

And for the other traders reading this, I believe the MKS would make a positive difference in your trading, as well as everything else in your life. That is MHO and each of you must form your own opinion for yourself.

When a trader can live in the now, the last trade does not exist, the P/L does not exist, the only thing real is what the bar is telling him/her. Think about that for a few moments... No fear of previous losses, and no greed for a future profit, the only thing in the conscious mind is the reality of what is happening NOW. Tough to do, and I know all of us can do it. (lol)

Edd
Live, Love and Laugh a Lot - (my daily goal since 1978) (grin)

OBTW - I do scalp NQ for about 2 hrs each Mon, Tues and Wed with a 4 day weekend each week, and I do not remember the last time I had a losing day. I totally fly my freak flag during the first 10 - 15 minutes, blink thinking off of a 20 second chart, then I scalp off the one min. chart setups ASAP, using 20 sec. chart for entry/exit, while also watching the 3 min chart for an overall view until the NY lunch hr kicks in and it goes flat, or I feel like I have had enough of a good thing, eh? (grin) To each his own, and that is my own thing to do, eh?

In closing, it occurs to me to say the I am on this site in search of at least one trader/scalper who thinks like I do to share our insights with each other. I use a my own swing lines with too many labels and a couple of ema's for reference. I like the KISS method. I can display fibs and support/resistance near the current price with onchart mouse clicks. I am a javascript junky with my eSignal charts, don't you know, and I like clean looking bar patterns most of the time. And I like to look inside of those bars and see what is going on there, too. (grin)
L8trs....

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  #69 (permalink)
 Gabriyele 
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thankYOU Edd

I will look her up,....am always ready to expand the knowledge base

have read the books by Haanel, excellent stuff!!

My aim is always to understand the system of rule on this planet,

......and the more i learn the more i learn how little i know!!

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 Sentenza 
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While I understand the enthusiasm for escaping the “system”, let’s look at what actually happens (from a tax standpoint) to “Sovereigns” in the United States.

Sourced from the IRS document: The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments - Section I - C.1
The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments - Section I

What follows is directly from the document.
I have placed what I think to be important lines in bold and underlined.
-------------------------

Quoting 
1. Contention: Taxpayer is not a “citizen” of the United States, thus not subject to the federal income tax laws.

Some individuals argue that they have rejected citizenship in the United States in favor of state citizenship; therefore, they are relieved of their federal income tax obligations. A variation of this argument is that a person is a free born citizen of a particular state and thus was never a citizen of the United States. The underlying theme of these arguments is the same: the person is not a United States citizen and is not subject to federal tax laws because only United States citizens are subject to these laws.

The Law: The Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution defines the basis for United States citizenship, stating that “[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” The Fourteenth Amendment therefore establishes simultaneous state and federal citizenship. Claims that individuals are not citizens of the United States but are solely citizens of a sovereign state and not subject to federal taxation have been uniformly rejected by the courts. The IRS issued Revenue Ruling 2007-22, 2007-14 I.R.B. 866, warning taxpayers of the consequences of making this frivolous argument.

In April 2005, a federal district court in Georgia permanently barred Jonathan D. Luman blocking him from selling his “Tax Buster” program that was based on the false theory that customers can avoid paying tax by renouncing their Social Security numbers and becoming sovereign citizens. See https://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2005/April/05_tax_190.htm; see also 2005 TNT 93-17 (Apr. 7, 2005).

In September 2006, a federal district court in California permanently barred James L. Tolbert from preparing income tax returns for others, because he promoted a fraudulent tax scheme based on the frivolous theory, among others, that state residents are not liable for federal income tax since they are citizens of the state and not of the United States. Seehttp://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2006/September/06_tax_602.html; see also 2006 TNT 177-31 (Sept. 8, 2006).

In January 2006, Lynn N. Ealy was sentenced in federal district court to 27 months imprisonment for his conviction on three counts of federal income tax evasion and ordered to pay restitution of $84,174 to the IRS. The evidence against Mr. Ealy demonstrated various affirmative acts of evasion, including the fact that he claimed he was not a citizen of the United States and the tax laws were unconstitutional. See 2006 TNT 18-48 (Jan. 12, 2006).

In September 2006, a California federal district court barred James L. Tolbert from preparing federal tax returns. Tolbert promoted a tax avoidance scheme representing, among other things, that residents of California or other states are not liable for federal income tax because they are citizens of California (or other state) and not the United States, and that American citizens working in the United States need not file federal income returns because “compensation for labor” is totally different in meaning and in law from “income.” Seehttp://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/2006/September/06_tax_602.html.

In May 2009, a Connecticut federal district court judge granted the government’s motion for a permanent injunction against Deowraj Buddhu and Sunita Buddhu, precluding them from: preparing or assisting in preparing federal tax returns; representing customers before the Internal Revenue Service; owning, working for, or volunteering for tax-return-preparation businesses; and promoting tax-fraud schemes. Sunita Buddhu and her father Deowraj Buddhu had operated a tax return preparation business in which they advised their clients that the IRS does not have authorization or jurisdiction to conduct examination of Connecticut residents’ tax returns. U.S. Judge Bars Two Connecticut Residents from Preparing Federal Tax Returns for Others.

-------------------------


In many cases, (shown in section C.1 - Relevant Case Law) the court seems to have imposed a monetary penalty in the $5000 dollar range for the “frivolous” arguments.

I spent a chunk of my precious time researching this tonight. I hope that the credible information I've presented helps to save you from wasting any more of your time on the sovereign movement.

Good luck to you!

-Sentenza

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 zt379 
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 Gabriyele 
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 Gabriyele 
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 Gabriyele 
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 wldman 
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I will just venture a guess and answer yes.

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 Gabriyele 
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wldman View Post
I will just venture a guess and answer yes.

....at the very least watch the first one (41min long)

....it will make you think again, about the things you think you knew

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 eddwfo 
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I have a bit of a problem buying into the doomsayers propaganda, primarily because of the in-congruence of their presentations and also as a result of my own experience of the many previous claims that the sky is falling.

If they are correct this time, for the first time in the history as I know it, then so be it. I will deal with it the best that I can, and that is simply the way it is.

OK, this contribution here is not my creation, however it is a more congruent point of view than those I have observed on this thread so far.

The fact that this is ad copy for a product does not necessarily detract from the value of the concepts presented.

I invite all of you to read and form your own opinion.
# --------------------------------


Justice on Trial ! ! !
Sure, we have problems.
BIG PROBLEMS.
It's impossible not see how our American Way of Life is threatened with New Speak, New Thought, and the threat of a New World Order.
Traditional American values of self-reliance, hard work, honesty in business, and genuine patriotism that works to promote liberty by working for justice are still the only protection we have for ourselves and our children.
Individual rights will continue to disappear ... if we do nothing.
That is, ONLY IF WE DO NOTHING.
You don't need more paranoid warnings or insane legal theories that don't work!
You need to learn how to FIX what's wrong.
You need to learn how to FORCE your leaders to do what's right.
You need to learn how to RESTORE the American Dream for yourself, your children, and future generations.
Complaining about a fox in the henhouse doesn't do a thing for the poor defenseless chickens. Yet, day-after-day I receive dozens of emails from well-meaning people who think pointing their fingers at the problems and urging their friends to recognize the problems will somehow magically make the problems go away.
Once you learn how to force the courts.
There is hope for those willing to FIGHT SMART!
My in-box is flooded every day (and more of late) by folks I call pseudo patriots who insist the end is near. They may be well-meaning, and the points they make are often valid, but they aren't offering any practical solutions!
.
'Tain't so!
If you want the fox out of the henhouse, and voting at the polling booth now-and-then doesn't seem to be making much of a change for the better, then it's time to get your pen and start putting ink on paper!
Ooops! Did you expect me to suggest violence? Not a chance. That's not what America is all about. We are a people (or, at least, we once were) dedicated to order, due process, and a peaceful resolution to our difficulties.
That means ink on paper!
Complaining gets us nowhere, unless we complain with a "Complaint" filed at the local courthouse - 'cause that does wonders when it's done properly.
If you don't believe me, look at the world around you and see for yourself how much of what we have today (good and bad) resulted from the decisions of courts.
The pseudo patriots have only bad news and wacky ideas about how to fix our problems ... ideas that are putting quite a few people behind bars, I might add.
I have good news!
We live in an age of opportunity such as the world has never seen before. When I entered the practice of law nearly a quarter-century ago, we didn't have computers to do on-line legal research. If we had a legal problem, there was only one solution: hire a lawyer. And, if you are like I was 30 years ago, you don't have tens of thousands of dollars to pay some lawyer who may end up dropping the ball or screwing your life up because of his or her stupid incompetence, laziness, or fear of the judge. Back then, it was either pay through the nose ... or lose!
That was before Jurisdictionary.
Our very way of life is on trial. If "We the People" do not learn how to put ink on paper and take advantage of the power of our courts, we may soon be looking back at the "good old days" and wishing we'd done what we could while there was time to do it right.
Meanwhile, instead of encouraging you to learn the rules of court and how to use them to Restore the Republic the "right way" (abiding by the principles of our democratic republic) the pseudo patriots are leading many of you down a path to certain destruction. They are so busy finding fault while teaching their idiotic ideas about how greedy people can escape justice by claiming nonsense defenses, that good people like you are confused about where to turn for the "right way" to get justice.
We are a nation of laws!
True patriots work with wisdom to control corrupt judges and legislators to change bad laws, instead of trying to find novel ways to get around the law for their own advantage.
True patriots seek justice according to the rules!
Today's pseudo patriots have lost their way. Don't let them turn you from the "right way" with their proclamations of doom or confuse you into trying to win in court by saying you are not WHO YOU ARE if your name is in all capital letters, or any of the similar nonsense they sell.
We can turn this nation around if we work together!
We can force judges to follow the rules. We can turn crooked lawyers out-on-their-ear! We can overcome even the most powerful opponent the "right way", peaceably, according to law and order - instead of being "outlaws" trying to wiggle out of our troubles with stupid tricks.
If it weren't so easy to learn the official rules there'd be no hope for us. But, it IS EASY to learn the rules and how to use them to force people in powerful positions to do what's right!
The pseudo patriots are so obsessed with the admittedly serious problems we face at this hour they do not see that the solution is already in our own hands: The Law!
We can put the law to work the "right way", using the "official rules" that overcome corrupt judges and defeat crooked lawyers and make justice possible for anyone of average intelligence willing to make an effort to learn how the legal game is played to win!
We must all stop staring at the darkness and lift the lamp of liberty and justice while there is yet time!
Pseudo patriots find fault with America and her system of law and order, but that's all they do.
The only answer pseudo patriots offer is to "spread the word", as if telling everyone what's wrong will magically make things right once again!
It is madness!
They say they are "patriots", but they don't tell you how to save your nation. They're too busy telling you what's wrong, who's at fault, and how ugly things will be when their terrible predictions come true.
Their message is all negative!
And, when they do offer their theories about what it takes to get justice, their theories are nothing short of lunacy!
Fringe on the courtroom flag
Name in all caps isn't them
Copyrighting their own name
Even disavowing their citizenship!
The list is nearly endless ... and totally insane!
The power to control corrupt government officials, crooked banks, and anyone else who violates the law contrary to our American Principles IS IN THE COURTS!
This is YOUR POWER!
Learn how to use it!

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  #78 (permalink)
 Gabriyele 
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nicely done!!!

Law Notes -- Home Page


Show Me The Law! 1 [Nitty-Gritty Law Library] - YouTube



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 eddwfo 
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The following is from a guy with a point of view, in many ways, unlike any other I have seen on the web.
Since I happen to pretty much agree with his point of view, I will share it with others here.

The Doggy Bone Date 2011OCT10

I have been following this guy for a few years, so here is a little background.
From his intelligence background, he certainly knows how to "Know thy enemy".
And he is VERY CLEAR, to me, whom thy enemy is...

His concepts and methods will likely rub some people the wrong way. If that is so, then so what?
If it is not for you, then continue to look elsewhere, eh? (grin)

Edd
Live, Love and Laugh a Lot...

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 eddwfo 
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Thanks for the "Thank You" Gabriyele

If you have the stomach for some additional related info, go here;

The Doggy Bone Date 2011NOV11

It is my opinion that most of the futures.io (formerly BMT) members are unaware of and/or are avoiding this thread. Too bad for them, eh? (grin)

Some might say that the doggybone links are doomsayer predictions. I would say that myself if I didn't have any previous
experience with his information. I am always a very serious skeptic of this sort of stuff.

Another source of quite valid predictions is the Socionomics group, which is a little known offshoot from Elliott Wave International,
and is based upon the Wave principle. Their theory is that Social Mood drives the world we live in, EVERYTHING including
hemlines, popular music, art, movies, dictators success/failures and the markets. The markets are nothing but a measurement
depicting the current Social Mood, and ONLY responds directly to this Social Mood, instead of the current belief that the markets
respond to news, economics, and all the other BS we see in the media about the markets and other newsy thingy's. Quite an
unconventional theory, don't you think? (grin)

Prechter ? Socionomics Institute

The author of the book "Conquer the Crash" Robert Prechter, founded this group, and the predictions in his 2002 book have been
coming true as printed. Great stuff from him and his groups.

And along with this physical plane, there is also the Spiritual side of the Sovereign individual, don't you know? (grin)

Edd
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 kbit 
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 kbit 
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 kbit 
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I don't know if this was posted already or not....

The Obama Deception



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 Gabriyele 
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  #85 (permalink)
 kronie 
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eudamonia View Post
I fail to see the point in a rhetoric article such as the one you posted. What is the specific action item(s) I should take away from this?

Every empire or state has eventually fallen due to a corrupt leadership. Even Rome only lasted so long. So statements about the sanctity of the consistution don't really mean anything. All governments are inherently corrupt - its just a matter of degree. As Winston Churchill stated, "it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried".

Regarding police power and the power of the state, it is a time proven fact that the populace will put up with a lot because the good outweighs the bad or because there isn't enough collective outrage to reduce personal risk to near zero. A good example of this are the recent riots in England. Rioting grew exponentially as the personal risk/cost approached a significantly low threshold. It helped that most of the rioters had little to lose or felt they had little to lose. If they actually had a compelling reason to riot (like we've seen in some of the Arab spring countries) there is a good chance that the government would have fallen.

Regarding the lemonade stand outrage I'll just say this. There are smarter ways to teach your child to be an entrepreneur these days. Selling lemonade on the street corner is dumb. Is it as dumb as the politics that created these licensing rules? No. But it is still dumb. Smart entrepreneurs look for weakly/non explored opportunities. They don't attempt to participate in an oversaturated market where they can produce no edge. 99% of the time mommy and daddy fund these pointless lemonade stands to live vicariously through their children. This doesn't teach the child to actually embrace the spirit of entrepreneurship.

As far as actually achieving personal sovereignty there are plenty of resources out there on the 5 flags concept (which is what I assume you are inferring). The problem with the 5 flags approach for traders is that the markets are inherently connected. Some novice traders think that if they have an edge that they are immune from the fluctuations in the markets and that no government can touch them. Nothing could be further from the truth. The markets make us all interconnected. Western governments could impose a lethal transaction tax across all of the major marketspaces. If a major superpower like the U.S. were to fall into chaos the markets would never be the same and many small traders would never recover (or perhaps never regain access to adequately liquid markets). Even if a trader were to acquire a vast sum of personal wealth, follow 5 flags religiously, and live out of a suitcase, they are not immune to the rest of the world and its problems.

Since we cannot hide from the world and its problems my suggested action item would be to educate the general public about the benefits of highly liquid markets (which us traders both admire and derive our livelihood from). There is a tremendous amount of bad PR about daytraders, wallstreet, and the markets themselves that is both incomplete and often not true. Small daytraders in particular seem to have no voice and are often derided and demonized in the media. Part of the reason for this is that it is almost impossible to imagine a world without liquid markets. However, the reality is that the current world economy is highly reliant upon these markets and without them we would go back to the economies of a pre-industrial era.


yeah,

didn't most of those "soveriegn(s)" collapse, when the notion of King, royalty and "state" met up with Socialism, Communism and the raw butt of the gun, from all those masses huddling to be free?

wasn't that what happened in 1917 with Russia becoming the USSR?, and other countries throwing off the weight and domination of those empirical powers?

weren't those empires and their royals, soverigns? or princes?, or whatever?

so, how does this matter effect or affect the price of tea in China?, as they used to ask, so often?

why does this extreme discussion matter?

and most importantly, how is it relevant to trading, right now?

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 kbit 
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Man Tries To Relinquish US Citizenship. Application Denied

I was approached recently by a member of our Sovereign Man community who filed the paperwork to relinquish US citizenship some time ago. Long story short, after an incomprehensibly long wait, the US government finally sent him a reply: Application DENIED.

Absolutely shocking. That you even have to ‘apply’ to relinquish what you never signed up for is intellectually insulting. That you cannot do so freely, and immediately, is nothing short of totalitarian.

It’s still an embryonic movement, though more and more US citizens are being driven to divorce their country. Last year nearly 1,600 people gave up US citizenship, up from 1,485 in 2010, 731 in 2009, and 226 in 2008.

While some renunciants have philosophical misgivings about being American, most do it for tax reasons. There’s a growing number of expats who, despite living abroad for years, are still paying huge portions of their income to Uncle Sam.

What’s more, the filing requirements are getting more and more onerous. US citizens living overseas have to keep up with all sorts of changes to the tax code that they may not be privy to, and the penalties for noncompliance are severe.

I can’t tell you how many friends I have who are US citizens living abroad that had no idea they were supposed to file the Report of Foreign Bank Account (FBAR) form every year; or the new FATCA form 8938; or those with businesses that must file form 8858 or 5471.

Usually these things come with pretty nasty penalties, possibly up to $10,000 per instance of failure to file.
Then there’s the latest, greatest tax target: accidental US citizens. This group consists of foreigners who happen to be dual nationals because they were born in the US or have an American parent.

These foreigners have spent their entire lives outside the US. They know absolutely nothing about US tax code. Now they’re getting Dear John letters from the US government saying-

“I see you are a US citizen but have never filed your taxes. Please enclose a check for the following absurd amount of money, which includes interest and penalties for the last 20-years…”

Such tactics smack of desperation… typical of the same sorts of cannibalistic moves that failing, bankrupt governments throughout history have exacted upon their people.

Citizenship is nothing more than accident of birth. Yet in the modern nation-state paradigm, governments lay claim to citizens from the time they’re born as if we’re property.

Children are saddled with obligations that they never signed up for– taxes, compulsory military service, a debilitating national debt, etc.

Most countries at least have procedures to voluntarily surrender citizenship for those who choose to opt out of the system; in the United States, it is contained in section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

The process usually takes place overseas at a US consulate– you have to fill out a series of forms, swear an oath in front of a government official, and eventually file a final tax return. Some people even have to pay a steep ‘exit tax’ on the value of their assets.

I know dozens who have done this, and from what my friends tell me, many of the consular officials attempt to impugn, insult, or otherwise intimidate people looking to surrender their citizenship. It’s their last-ditch effort to keep the milk cows from escaping the dairy farm.

For example, one official tried terrorizing a friend of mine last year in South Africa, saying, “This smells like TAX EVASION to me!”

Despite all the forms, the bureaucracy, and the intimidation tactics, I had never heard of a case where someone’s properly submitted ’application’ to surrender citizenship has been denied (bar Ken O’Keefe). Until now.
But in what may be the most distinguishing mark of a totalitarian state, the US government has now officially prevented someone from freely leaving the system. The Soviet Union comes to mind.

It certainly does make one wonder to what desperate lows they will sink to next.


Guest Post: Man Tries To Relinquish US Citizenship. Application Denied | ZeroHedge

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 syxforex 
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Reuters - Floating cities proposed as haven for future happiness - YouTube

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 eddwfo 
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Expatriation is not that difficult for those who know about it, and therefore not that expensive to get some competent professional assistance to ensure that it is done correctly.

Mark Nestmann has been in this sort of business for many years and knows what he is doing. I understand that he will never ever do anything that is not totally legal. He is really big on going offshore, but he does not advocate hiding offshore investment from the IRS. Stay legal and stay out of jail is his motto. See ---;
When the USA Rejects Your Expatriation | The Nestmann Group, Ltd. - Second Passports, Citizenship & Residence, Wealth Preservation & International Tax Planning

I believe that expatriation is unnecessary and a waste of one's time, money and energy. I am aware of two different methods of ensuring that one is not subject to any of the USC that is not listed within the Federal Register, such as Title 26, without expatriation. These methods require that one acts as a sovereign at all times, and one could liken it to walking the high wire without a net. One had better know exactly what one is doing in the commercial world at all times.

I am aware of even a third method which requires the sovereign to have dual citizenship and limits the injury if one should fall off of that high wire.

All cases I am aware of require that one ALWAYS act as a sovereign, and most people do not even know what it means to act like a sovereign, much less how to act like a sovereign. And when most people discover the basic requirements of acting like a sovereign, they decide it is far too difficult and they are much too fearful of the high wire aspect of it.

In any case, it is my opinion that the act of expatriation is unnecessarily running away from the clutches of the U.S. gov, and still not living the life of a sovereign.

Edd
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 Gabriyele 
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Steven Sontag View Post
The post sounds good. Then you get to specifics. The part about not getting dinged by the system. No parking tickets no taxes etc. The truth is that you live in the world of agreement in you live in the USA. A lot of folks agree to the same thing and abide by it. That's how things work. If you go outside of it, with your actions there are those that are paid to stop you.

If you want to move to a place where you are not bound by the world of agreement, try Somalia or Antarctica.

The post leads one to believe that there is a path to avoid paying taxes. And there is. Did you know that you can have the IRS help you file your tax return and pay zero? But how do you make a lot of money that is tax free? Check out the tax laws regarding Real Estate. There you will find out how to do it, and have the world of agreement agreeing with you.

....and why we have the income tax post 1913,......well, what else was created in 1913 ???

The Income Tax - 1913

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