"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,742 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,288 given,
97,473
received
When I was having my hand surgeries, the nurse looking after me after my surgery actually told me this was her retirement plan. To rob a bank and be sent to prison.
46.2% of personal bankruptcies are due to medical expenses
Tea Party Candidates who were elected to congress signed up for government health insurance
Socialized medical care is provided for convicted criminals but not hard working families
Because of health care expenses, the average cost of housing an inmate over 60 is $70,000 a year
Most health insurance policies have a $1 million lifetime cap, which was set 40 years ago
The Healthcare Reform Act made it illegal for an insurance company to cancel a woman's health insurance policy while she was in the middle of Radiation & Chemotherapy treatments for breast cancer. Republicans want to repeal that law.
I guess I better get @RM99 to explain to me why this is as it should be....
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
The following 3 users say Thank You to ThatManFromTexas for this post:
Hmmm, Republicans are the bad guys because they want to repeal ObummerCare, and that is bad because there is one thing in it that you think is good? This is the typical scare tactic the left uses. Number one, if that is a good provision it should be taken up in a better solution after the bad solution is repealed. Number two, has there actually been a case of an insurance company cancelling coverage of cancer treatment in the middle of the treatment?? I don't know but I doubt it.
I'm not a great fan of a lot of the Obama Healthcare Act - I think Medicare for all would have been a better choice. It's already in place - just add all citizens to it - regardless of age.
In response to your "Number two" - Actually, Yes. I DO know and I DON'T doubt it & here's why: (I can give you her email addr / phone # if you want to call her & verify it). It's not a 'scare tactic' by the left. It happens. It'll happen again.
We applied for catastrophic coverage (because the current United Healthcare coverage is KILLING US) - about a year ago with a nice woman who had just started working for this company. Previously she was one of the top sellers for a very large, well known, old insurance company that's been around since our parents' were young. She had a horror story to tell about her father who was diagnosed with cancer, and was on one of the (I can't name the company here for obvious reasons) policies she had sold him. Once diagnosed, they stopped paying for all but doctors' visits - no coverage for Chemo., which ran into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. (I also heard this same story from a close friend, whose husband died of cancer about 2 years ago - also with that same very large, well known, old insurance company - they would not pay for his Chemo, either - just the dr. visits - lord only knows how many years it will take her, to pay off the hospital Chemo bills, if ever).
Then, as the policy came up for renewal, his renewal rate was double that which he was paying before the diagnosis. So, she stormed into her manager's office & promptly quit working for them and went to work for this other insurance company. She tells this story to all her prospective clients. She struck me as an honest individual with no reason to go after her former employer by telling such tall tales, especially since I heard nearly the identical story from this close friend, who does NOT work for an insurance company).
Remember, so long as "insurance" is part of the equation, it's never going to be fair and balanced. They are in business for one reason and one reason only (not because they care about us or want us to get the best health care) - profit.
They love us so long as we're healthy, pay our premiums on time & cost them very little.
I don't know about you, but I am one individual who is tired of paying nearly 30% of his gross annual salary just for healthcare coverage - oh, and btw, there's nothing wrong with me - no diseases - just getting older - see if a $15,000 a year 'voucher', as proposed by some of the Republican candidates, will cover YOUR healthcare when you're 75 ! When it runs out (about six months into your policy year, then what will you do??) I'm only 57 and it's costing me $13,200 a year!!).
It's a simple equation. As a business owner, I can attest. You have 2 ways of staying in business and increasing your bottom line. Increase your prices or lower your costs - or both, if you can! They are in business to make a profit. Cancer patients, alzheimers patients, etc. etc. are a drain on their resources. The outcomes are often very poor. Get rid of dead weight wherever you can. Minimize your risk exposure. Maximize your profits so that you'll continue to be attractive to your shareholders.
Prior to being a small business owner, I worked for a medical liability (malpractice) insurance company for 5 years. I know a little bit about the 'business' and how it works.
If we ALL had to have insurance coverage, imagine how small and affordable the premiums would be, because the cost & risk would be spread over the entire population & not run by companies in business to profit off our health or lack thereof.
Just a thought..... (I'm trying to be more of a political atheist these days, as I don't believe either the Republicans or Democrats can do anything to dig us out of the hole we're in - it's been too long coming & no one in the government has been willing to stop applying for more credit cards (so to speak). You can't get a new credit card to pay off the old one you maxed out! And keep doing that again and again. It'll never work. It's not a Republican problem or a Democrat problem. It's a GREED problem!
BTW, in case anyone is wondering, I registered as a Republican who has voted Democrat many times in the past. So don't bash me for being a tow-the-party-line-Democrat. I guess you might say, I'm an omni-crat or is that Republicrat or Demlican? Hmmm......
After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
If the Republicans manage to cancel healthcare reform... they will NEVER add it back. The insurance lobbyist pay them wayy better than we do.
Health Net ordered to pay $9 million after canceling cancer patient's policy
The punitive damage award is the first of its kind and has prompted the giant medical insurer to scrap practices that have recently come under fire.
By Lisa Girion
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
February 23, 2008
One of California's largest for-profit insurers stopped a controversial practice of canceling sick policyholders Friday after a judge ordered Health Net Inc. to pay more than $9 million to a breast cancer patient it dropped in the middle of chemotherapy.
Just so you know... At the arbitration hearing, internal company documents were disclosed showing that Health Net had paid employee bonuses for meeting a cancellation quota and for the amount of money saved.
The department cited recent research by the staff of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, which found that three large insurers rescinded almost 20,000 policies over five years, saving $300 million in medical claims.
At least one insurer included such savings in an employee performance evaluation.
“Simply put, these insurance company employees are encouraged to revoke sick people’s health coverage," HHS said
The research compiled recently for a House hearing included more detail.
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
The following user says Thank You to ThatManFromTexas for this post:
Everyone is waking up to health care reform these days. The problem is that ObummerCare breaks more than it fixes and will cost everyone more and illegally requires everyone to have insurance. Health care needs reform, not a replacement with socialist medicine. If I don't want insurance I shouldn't be forced into it. If I need to be treated I don't want to wait six weeks to see the specialist. Republicans know there needs to be some changes but Democrats have an agenda to socialize health care at any cost and that is plain wrong. Why do you think they rammed the plan through without anyone actually having read it? That is insane and now we are finding all the nasty things that are included.
The following user says Thank You to eDanny for this post:
I agree with all the above,..... I guess what it comes down to is the fact that anything the goverment gets involved in ends up in costs going up (for many different reasons)and quality going down. The more they get involved the more it costs...basic really.
Insurance companies barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits eliminated and annual limits restricted.
Insurers barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
Young adults able to stay on their parents' health plans until age 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.
Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.
A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.
Medicare drug beneficiaries who fall into the "doughnut hole" coverage gap will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.
A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.
A 10% tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.
2. Define "Socialist" medicine.
England has Socialized medicine . All health care workers are employees of the government. Where is it written that this bill will force Doctors in the USA to become federal employees?
3. Please give a summary of the Republican Health Reform Plan.
There isn't one. So far they have proposed cutting Medicare and Medicaid while spending $120 BILLION this year alone in Afganistan
4. Why can't Republicans read?
The debate went on for months. Were the Republicans barred access?
5. List nasty surprises.
The nastiest surprise is, Sarah Palin was right about something. There are Death Squads... or as they were formerly called , Republican Congressmen.
Just curious, where do you get your insurance? Did you buy a policy ... do you have insurance through your employer?
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
The following 4 users say Thank You to ThatManFromTexas for this post:
I buy my own and I also happen to sell life/health insurance. You do point out issues that need to be adressed and the republicans did/do have plans, but if you remember were largely excluded from the process because Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi controlled everything and brushed off anything they suggested. I don't want to get put in a box here , I'm just saying from the way your post reads it just looks like a typical Democrat hit piece with false premises and b.s. rhetoric. Honestly question numbers 3,4,and 5 aren't even worth responding to.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,742 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,288 given,
97,473
received
Personally I felt #3 was spot-on. I am not a republican or a democrat. I'm an American. So I have no allegiance to either party. But every time I hear or read a Republican in the news, the only thing he has to say is how bad the Democrats are and how terrible their plan is. They never offer their own solution other than a 5 second quote or party line.
With all due respect that is simply not true...Who proposed buying insurance across state lines for example( to increase competition). Tort reform is another example, Paul ryan has plans to reform medicare and so forth...Honestly do you guys only watch Msnbc or something. I don't mean that in a nasty way but, come on.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,742 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,288 given,
97,473
received
I don't watch msnbc. I also don't watch fox. And I think Paul Ryan is a good guy, but in general I stand by what I said and believe it to be totally accurate. I constantly feel that Republicans are just trying to trick the public, flat lie about the issues, use scare tactics, etc. Just the way I feel. Maybe you can convince me I am wrong.
I'm not going to argue with you about it...I'm no shill for the Republicans, I'll just leave it at that we disagree on this issue. The whole health care debate revolves around money really when it comes down to it...I think everyone would like to see all Americans have health care it's just a matter of how much it costs and who's going to pay for it.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,742 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,288 given,
97,473
received
I don't want to argue, I didn't realize I was coming across as if I did. I'm open to trying to understand your point of view. Maybe you could link to some Republican articles or youtube clips of where they've proposed specific solutions for health care reform, other than to repeal the current law. If you want. If not, fine by me, I've got other stuff to do too
1. From the way your post reads , you sound like you vote Republican and sell HealthInsurance... oh wait...
2. I am a registered Republican, but I vote for whoever I consider the lesser of two evils.
3. Were you equally disgusted when the Republicans were ranting about Death Squads?
Who fought to let the Insurance industry keep their exemption from the US Anti-Trust laws?
Who wants to throw out ALL of the changes made by the HealthCare Reform Act?
It comes down to money all right.The Health insurance industry doesn't care how many people die as a result of their actions, as long as they make a better profit and then use that money to keep Politicians in their pocket.
You've probably never sat in one of the Houston Med Center's most respected cardiologist office after a heart attack , had him tell you they need to run some tests because he has concerns about the way things are going only to have the insurance company tell you they don't think you need that test.
I have.
Mike you have nothing to apologize for.
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
My understanding of this is that you want me to pay for your health care....You do have some valid points here, all I'm saying is Obamacare is the wrong answer. It's not all bad but needs so much improvement that it is easier to scrap it and start over w/input from all sides..not just a democrat only crafted bill. That's all I have to say on the matter, I don't want to get you all wound up...you might have another attack
Regards, Kbit
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
Posts: 49,742 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,288 given,
97,473
received
I don't know anyone who thinks ObamaCare is the right answer. It is better than nothing. However it is a big POS now compared to what was originally proposed during the campaign. Now ask yourself why it's a big POS now, and frankly, again my opinion here --- I place blame about equally split on Obama and on Republicans. A lot of stuff was added in order to get the bill passed, stuff that makes no sense to me but apparently makes sense to the insurance companies bottom line. Imagine that.
And then Obama, well let me put it this way. Where the hell is the prime time speech every other day that says "OK guys, here is exactly what I am trying to do. And here is a list of Congressman who are opposing me and the reasons they've publicly stated. If you want me to pass the health care plan I proposed, then you need to call your Congressman and ask WTF".
I was never so disappointed in a President as when I was watching his press conference where he said he had no choice but to extend the Bush tax cuts, even though he promised he wouldn't, even though the majority of the country doesn't want it, even though he doesn't believe it is the right thing for the country, he had no choice because Republicans were holding hostage unemployment checks for millions of families. Personally, I think the country would have supported him if he said "And for that I am sorry (them holding the checks hostage), but I have to do what I believe is right, and there is no way in hell I am passing this bill. So please call your Congressman and let them know how you feel. I know it's tough. No unemployment checks until we get this resolved. It will be devastating. But you know what is more devastating? Passing this bill, and continuing business as usual."
Where was that speech? That's what I want to see in my President. Stand up for what is right, for what you believe in, especially when the majority is on your side (population majority).
This could all be solved if people where nudered at birth, and had to prove they had the financial and emotional means to provide for themselves and their family before that nudering could be reversed. I say that in jest, but I say it for the following reason.
There are just too many people who feel like it is SOMEONE ELSE'S responsibility to provide for them and their family. The problem with these big entitlement programs is that they will never go away, they will ONLY get more expensive and less efficient. Once these things go live, it will forever change the amount of YOUR OWN MONEY that you get to keep.
There were probably plenty of ways to make health care/insurance better. I find it hard to believe that the federal government mandating this (which it doesn't seem to have the authority to do btw).... will be able to develop a comprehensive plan that will fix this problem for everyone.
I'm dirt poor, but this idea that is SOMEONE ELSE'S responsibility to take care of me just doesn't jive.
1. I am self employed , I have always paid my own insurance.
2. It's ridiculous they had to pass a law to make sure it's available so that I can .
3. Yes I am glad there is a law that they can't cancel a legitimate policy I have paid for just because after decades of paying my insurance premiums, I went from being an Insurance Company profit center to a cost center.
4. If the Republicans ever manage to repeal the HealthCare Reform Act,we will NEVER have;
Insurance companies barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits eliminated and annual limits restricted.
Insurers barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
Young adults able to stay on their parents' health plans until age 26.
Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage
So if you don't have insurance and a member of your family was diagnosed with cancer... you would refuse to let them receive treatments that were paid for by the government ?
Wow, Thanksgiving at your house must be a harmonious occassion...
Whether requiring health care insurance coverage is legal or not will be decided by the US Supreme Court. The District courts are divided along party lines (big shock)
Where do you get your insurance coverage?
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
Just about this first, every item you mentioned above could be fixed without the 2700 page bill congress passed. Most of which could be settled with contract law. I.e. if an insurance company makes a deal with you in writing, they must uphold that agreement. The terms of your agreement should be simpler, and easier for the layman to understand the deal they are getting into.
But all the things you mention, none of these things require the government to force us into a contract with another private entity(the insurance company). The way this health care act was structured, was a stepping stone to eventually have us in a single payer system after we find out that this is going to be a big debacle that costs way more than projected.
Hehe..... On this, let me say it is a bit of a loaded question to ask how I would personally feel about something as it relates to loved ones. Generally when it comes to the personal well-being of family members, all rules go out of the window. A lot of us would rob, cheat, steal, hurt or compromise the well-being of a stranger to save a loved one. But that doesn't make it ok to damage someone else's life for that of our family members.
I also wouldn't want a member of my family to have to go into combat, but I understand we MUST have people who are willing to do violence on the behalf of our society. It's why some politicians have a security detail for their family members and not just them. It is because when the security of a family member is at risk, some people would do anything for them... to include seriously compromising national security. It is why you don't want soldiers in relationships that are in the same unit.... if your wife were in a unit you were in charge of, would you have her in a convoy transporting supplies across hostile territory, or would you rather unfairly put someone else in danger to save your wife?
I say all that to say, that when it comes to family, spouses, children or people we love, people with emotions generally can't be expected to make rational decisions when that family member is under duress.
If you ask me the question though, should another member of society be mandated to pay for one of MY family member's existance, the answer is no.
You mention "paid for by the government," there is no such thing. The government doesn't have money and doesn't produce a thing, it only takes at the barrel of a gun. What you should say is, "paid for by someone else," cause that is really what it means.
The government DOES NOT have the authority to force you into a contract with another private party, which is what the government is doing. If that's the case, where does it end? Why not have the government force you to purchase a subscription at futures.io (formerly BMT) since it is probably the best trading site out there after all ...... , what about the govt forcing us to only buy cars from Chevy? Why not force us to only purchase organic food since it may be healthier? What about forcing us to pay for a gym membership so we will remain healthy? Are we making this ONE exception for health insurance and then the government will never do such a thing again?
The following 2 users say Thank You to forrestang for this post:
The same people who lose sleep worrying that the "unwashed masses" will get " free" insurance are also against the law requiring the "unwashed masses" to buy their own insurance... WTF
If you required everyone to buy their own insurance... how would you be paying their insurance anyway...
Obama has said he is willing to negotiate on the mandated coverage, but the Republicans have said no dice... they want to throw the baby out with the bath water and talk about adopting another kid later.
They can do away with the mandatory coverage... fine by me... But I will fight tooth and nail to keep the provisions I listed earlier.
Yes it is absurd that a new law had to be passed to force the Insurance industry to abide by contract law.
No the Republicans would never have taken that step themselves.
TMFT HeathlCare Reform:
Everyone is eligible to buy the same health insurance coverage as the US Congress for the same premiums Congressmen pay.
It's not bad , you can get complete coverage for a family of 4 for $300 per month. Single plans start at around $150 a month.
Relieve companies from having to provide insurance for their employees. Republicans can't complain about lowering cost for businesses.
People would still have the option of buying health insurance else where .
Problem Solved.
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
I didn't understand what you meant by the first part of the statement that I deleted from your quote, so no biggie.
But your ideas, have essentially nothing to do with the healthcare bill as it stands now. It's completely different as it attempts to somehow cover people for FREE.
But YOUR ideas for TMFT healthcare as mentioned in the quote above, I wouldn't have a problem with it. If somehow families of 4 could be covered on a MASS scale at that cost, fine. But I suspect that once whatever congress has is opened up to mass public, the costs would be quite a bit higher. I don't know for sure, but I would think congress's insurance is probably in some way subsidized by the taxpayers.
But, I still maintain that this idea of FREE healthcare needs to go away. Nothing in life is free, SOMEBODY has to pay for it. People NEED to be connected with the cost of their healthcare in some way.
But the mandate, imo is absolutely absurd. Everything the govt does is at the end of a gun, so I think the government need be extremely judicious in waving that gun around.
Ok, I get what you are saying now. I am totally opposed to the idea of people not being able to buy their own insurance, or at least I am opposed to it being as difficult as it is, believe me I know. But..... And I hate to make this a republican/democrat thing, but that is totally a Democrat thing. Republicans have been talking about allowing people to purchase individual insurance across state lines for years! That alone could make it easier for people like us to get insurance. I'm sure even you have to admit that?
People who have to buy privately always get screwed, and that's a problem. No argument from me there, but a mandate isn't the answer.
This here I think is obvious. B/c the bill is attempting to cover 30 million people who don't have it now. Now of course there are a lot of people in that group that could afford it that choose not to have it. But there are still a lot of people in that group that will essentially just be getting a free ride.
Cancel the mandate...I don't care... I just want to be able to buy the damn stuff and not have it cancelled on me when I need to use it. I don't think that's too much to ask.
I should be able to buy the same coverage that we provide for free to convicts. I don't think that is too much to ask.
If the provisions I listed above are abolished ... I will probably not be able to buy health insurance for what ever amount of time is left of my life
I do take issue when Insurance companies and Republicans tell me the solution is for me to die as quickly and cheaply as possible. Believe it or not... I am not enthused with their solution.
I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.
My daddy always said, "Every day above ground is a good day!"
It's not to much to ask. But like I mentioned with congress's health care, taxpayers are subsidizing that healthcare. I'm simply saying that without that subsidy, whatever it costs is not going to be the same when we are all paying for it.
Hehe, if I ever get my trading right, I will personally drive to Texas and help you place your trades myself in your old age!
But you are playing the role of demigog here. No republican is telling you to die quickly. Name me a republican in congress that is telling you the solution to healthcare is is for you to die quickly?
And actually, if you want to again make this a republican vs. democrat thing again, it was the republicans that were making the big stink about the so-called "End of life" counciling portion of the bill that was removed. Do you not remember that as being a big part of the discourse between repubs and dems?
Do you remember this exchange were Obama tells an older woman who was advised by a doctor that she needed a costly pacemaker, and B.O. tells her that maybe she should just take a pain killer instead b/c it was cheaper: YouTube - ‪Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill‬‏
Now the republicans went crazy over this and I think they went overboard. But TMFT, nobody is telling you the solution to your healthcare problems is that you should just die. That is kind of one of those emotional cards.
I hope this discussion is recieved in good spirit. I typically try not to discuss politics outside of my normal channels and I hope I'm not offending anyone?
The following user says Thank You to forrestang for this post:
Actually the blame goes equally to Obama and the Democrats. There were 2 Republicans who voted for the healthcare bill between the house and senante. The Democrats own this one. They are going to live or die by it.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
