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Is this how we pay for Health Care
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Is this how we pay for Health Care

  #21 (permalink)
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kbit View Post
I buy my own and I also happen to sell life/health insurance. You do point out issues that need to be adressed and the republicans did/do have plans, but if you remember were largely excluded from the process because Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi controlled everything and brushed off anything they suggested. I don't want to get put in a box here , I'm just saying from the way your post reads it just looks like a typical Democrat hit piece with false premises and b.s. rhetoric. Honestly question numbers 3,4,and 5 aren't even worth responding to.

1. From the way your post reads , you sound like you vote Republican and sell HealthInsurance... oh wait...

2. I am a registered Republican, but I vote for whoever I consider the lesser of two evils.

3. Were you equally disgusted when the Republicans were ranting about Death Squads?




kbit View Post
With all due respect that is simply not true...Who proposed buying insurance across state lines for example( to increase competition). Tort reform is another example, Paul ryan has plans to reform medicare and so forth...Honestly do you guys only watch Msnbc or something. I don't mean that in a nasty way but, come on.

Who fought to let the Insurance industry keep their exemption from the US Anti-Trust laws?

Who wants to throw out ALL of the changes made by the HealthCare Reform Act?



kbit View Post
I'm not going to argue with you about it...I'm no shill for the Republicans, I'll just leave it at that we disagree on this issue. The whole health care debate revolves around money really when it comes down to it...I think everyone would like to see all Americans have health care it's just a matter of how much it costs and who's going to pay for it.

It comes down to money all right.The Health insurance industry doesn't care how many people die as a result of their actions, as long as they make a better profit and then use that money to keep Politicians in their pocket.

You've probably never sat in one of the Houston Med Center's most respected cardiologist office after a heart attack , had him tell you they need to run some tests because he has concerns about the way things are going only to have the insurance company tell you they don't think you need that test.

I have.



Big Mike View Post
I don't want to argue, I didn't realize I was coming across as if I did. I'm open to trying to understand your point of view. Maybe you could link to some Republican articles or youtube clips of where they've proposed specific solutions for health care reform, other than to repeal the current law. If you want. If not, fine by me, I've got other stuff to do too

Mike

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  #22 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
1. From the way your post reads , you sound like you vote Republican and sell HealthInsurance... oh wait...

2. I am a registered Republican, but I vote for whoever I consider the lesser of two evils.
(Same here )

3. Were you equally disgusted when the Republicans were ranting about Death Squads?
(No)





Who fought to let the Insurance industry keep their exemption from the US Anti-Trust laws?
(Something that could be addressed)

Who wants to throw out ALL of the changes made by the HealthCare Reform Act?
(Me)



It comes down to money all right.The Health insurance industry doesn't care how many people die as a result of their actions, as long as they make a better profit and then use that money to keep Politicians in their pocket.

You've probably never sat in one of the Houston Med Center's most respected cardiologist office after a heart attack , had him tell you they need to run some tests because he has concerns about the way things are going only to have the insurance company tell you they don't think you need that test.

I have.



Mike you have nothing to apologize for.

My understanding of this is that you want me to pay for your health care....You do have some valid points here, all I'm saying is Obamacare is the wrong answer. It's not all bad but needs so much improvement that it is easier to scrap it and start over w/input from all sides..not just a democrat only crafted bill. That's all I have to say on the matter, I don't want to get you all wound up...you might have another attack
Regards, Kbit

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  #23 (permalink)
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I don't know anyone who thinks ObamaCare is the right answer. It is better than nothing. However it is a big POS now compared to what was originally proposed during the campaign. Now ask yourself why it's a big POS now, and frankly, again my opinion here --- I place blame about equally split on Obama and on Republicans. A lot of stuff was added in order to get the bill passed, stuff that makes no sense to me but apparently makes sense to the insurance companies bottom line. Imagine that.

And then Obama, well let me put it this way. Where the hell is the prime time speech every other day that says "OK guys, here is exactly what I am trying to do. And here is a list of Congressman who are opposing me and the reasons they've publicly stated. If you want me to pass the health care plan I proposed, then you need to call your Congressman and ask WTF".

I was never so disappointed in a President as when I was watching his press conference where he said he had no choice but to extend the Bush tax cuts, even though he promised he wouldn't, even though the majority of the country doesn't want it, even though he doesn't believe it is the right thing for the country, he had no choice because Republicans were holding hostage unemployment checks for millions of families. Personally, I think the country would have supported him if he said "And for that I am sorry (them holding the checks hostage), but I have to do what I believe is right, and there is no way in hell I am passing this bill. So please call your Congressman and let them know how you feel. I know it's tough. No unemployment checks until we get this resolved. It will be devastating. But you know what is more devastating? Passing this bill, and continuing business as usual."

Where was that speech? That's what I want to see in my President. Stand up for what is right, for what you believe in, especially when the majority is on your side (population majority).

Mike

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  #24 (permalink)
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This could all be solved if people where nudered at birth, and had to prove they had the financial and emotional means to provide for themselves and their family before that nudering could be reversed. I say that in jest, but I say it for the following reason.

There are just too many people who feel like it is SOMEONE ELSE'S responsibility to provide for them and their family. The problem with these big entitlement programs is that they will never go away, they will ONLY get more expensive and less efficient. Once these things go live, it will forever change the amount of YOUR OWN MONEY that you get to keep.

There were probably plenty of ways to make health care/insurance better. I find it hard to believe that the federal government mandating this (which it doesn't seem to have the authority to do btw).... will be able to develop a comprehensive plan that will fix this problem for everyone.

I'm dirt poor, but this idea that is SOMEONE ELSE'S responsibility to take care of me just doesn't jive.

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  #25 (permalink)
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kbit View Post
My understanding of this is that you want me to pay for your health care....You do have some valid points here, all I'm saying is Obamacare is the wrong answer. It's not all bad but needs so much improvement that it is easier to scrap it and start over w/input from all sides..not just a democrat only crafted bill. That's all I have to say on the matter, I don't want to get you all wound up...you might have another attack
Regards, Kbit

1. I am self employed , I have always paid my own insurance.

2. It's ridiculous they had to pass a law to make sure it's available so that I can .

3. Yes I am glad there is a law that they can't cancel a legitimate policy I have paid for just because after decades of paying my insurance premiums, I went from being an Insurance Company profit center to a cost center.

4. If the Republicans ever manage to repeal the HealthCare Reform Act,we will NEVER have;


Insurance companies barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits eliminated and annual limits restricted.

Insurers barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

Young adults able to stay on their parents' health plans until age 26.

Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage




forrestang View Post
This could all be solved if people where nudered at birth, and had to prove they had the financial and emotional means to provide for themselves and their family before that nudering could be reversed. I say that in jest, but I say it for the following reason.

There are just too many people who feel like it is SOMEONE ELSE'S responsibility to provide for them and their family. The problem with these big entitlement programs is that they will never go away, they will ONLY get more expensive and less efficient. Once these things go live, it will forever change the amount of YOUR OWN MONEY that you get to keep.

There were probably plenty of ways to make health care/insurance better. I find it hard to believe that the federal government mandating this (which it doesn't seem to have the authority to do btw).... will be able to develop a comprehensive plan that will fix this problem for everyone.

I'm dirt poor, but this idea that is SOMEONE ELSE'S responsibility to take care of me just doesn't jive.

So if you don't have insurance and a member of your family was diagnosed with cancer... you would refuse to let them receive treatments that were paid for by the government ?

Wow, Thanksgiving at your house must be a harmonious occassion...

Whether requiring health care insurance coverage is legal or not will be decided by the US Supreme Court. The District courts are divided along party lines (big shock)

Where do you get your insurance coverage?

I'm just a simple man trading a simple plan.

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  #26 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
1. I am self employed , I have always paid my own insurance.

2. It's ridiculous they had to pass a law to make sure it's available so that I can .

3. Yes I am glad there is a law that they can't cancel a legitimate policy I have paid for just because after decades of paying my insurance premiums, I went from being an Insurance Company profit center to a cost center.

4. If the Republicans ever manage to repeal the HealthCare Reform Act,we will NEVER have;


Insurance companies barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits eliminated and annual limits restricted.

Insurers barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

Young adults able to stay on their parents' health plans until age 26.

Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage

Just about this first, every item you mentioned above could be fixed without the 2700 page bill congress passed. Most of which could be settled with contract law. I.e. if an insurance company makes a deal with you in writing, they must uphold that agreement. The terms of your agreement should be simpler, and easier for the layman to understand the deal they are getting into.

But all the things you mention, none of these things require the government to force us into a contract with another private entity(the insurance company). The way this health care act was structured, was a stepping stone to eventually have us in a single payer system after we find out that this is going to be a big debacle that costs way more than projected.



ThatManFromTexas View Post
[COLOR="DarkRed"]
So if you don't have insurance and a member of your family was diagnosed with cancer... you would refuse to let them receive treatments that were paid for by the government ?

Wow, Thanksgiving at your house must be a harmonious occassion...

Whether requiring health care insurance coverage is legal or not will be decided by the US Supreme Court. The District courts are divided along party lines (big shock)

Where do you get your insurance coverage?

Hehe..... On this, let me say it is a bit of a loaded question to ask how I would personally feel about something as it relates to loved ones. Generally when it comes to the personal well-being of family members, all rules go out of the window. A lot of us would rob, cheat, steal, hurt or compromise the well-being of a stranger to save a loved one. But that doesn't make it ok to damage someone else's life for that of our family members.

I also wouldn't want a member of my family to have to go into combat, but I understand we MUST have people who are willing to do violence on the behalf of our society. It's why some politicians have a security detail for their family members and not just them. It is because when the security of a family member is at risk, some people would do anything for them... to include seriously compromising national security. It is why you don't want soldiers in relationships that are in the same unit.... if your wife were in a unit you were in charge of, would you have her in a convoy transporting supplies across hostile territory, or would you rather unfairly put someone else in danger to save your wife?

I say all that to say, that when it comes to family, spouses, children or people we love, people with emotions generally can't be expected to make rational decisions when that family member is under duress.

If you ask me the question though, should another member of society be mandated to pay for one of MY family member's existance, the answer is no.

You mention "paid for by the government," there is no such thing. The government doesn't have money and doesn't produce a thing, it only takes at the barrel of a gun. What you should say is, "paid for by someone else," cause that is really what it means.

The government DOES NOT have the authority to force you into a contract with another private party, which is what the government is doing. If that's the case, where does it end? Why not have the government force you to purchase a subscription at futures.io (formerly BMT) since it is probably the best trading site out there after all ...... , what about the govt forcing us to only buy cars from Chevy? Why not force us to only purchase organic food since it may be healthier? What about forcing us to pay for a gym membership so we will remain healthy? Are we making this ONE exception for health insurance and then the government will never do such a thing again?

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forrestang View Post
Just about this first, every item you mentioned above could be fixed without the 2700 page bill congress passed. Most of which could be settled with contract law. I.e. if an insurance company makes a deal with you in writing, they must uphold that agreement. The terms of your agreement should be simpler, and easier for the layman to understand the deal they are getting into.

But all the things you mention, none of these things require the government to force us into a contract with another private entity(the insurance company). The way this health care act was structured, was a stepping stone to eventually have us in a single payer system after we find out that this is going to be a big debacle that costs way more than projected.



Hehe..... On this, let me say it is a bit of a loaded question to ask how I would personally feel about something as it relates to loved ones. Generally when it comes to the personal well-being of family members, all rules go out of the window. A lot of us would rob, cheat, steal, hurt or compromise the well-being of a stranger to save a loved one. But that doesn't make it ok to damage someone else's life for that of our family members.

I also wouldn't want a member of my family to have to go into combat, but I understand we MUST have people who are willing to do violence on the behalf of our society. It's why some politicians have a security detail for their family members and not just them. It is because when the security of a family member is at risk, some people would do anything for them... to include seriously compromising national security. It is why you don't want soldiers in relationships that are in the same unit.... if your wife were in a unit you were in charge of, would you have her in a convoy transporting supplies across hostile territory, or would you rather unfairly put someone else in danger to save your wife?

I say all that to say, that when it comes to family, spouses, children or people we love, people with emotions generally can't be expected to make rational decisions when that family member is under duress.

If you ask me the question though, should another member of society be mandated to pay for one of MY family member's existance, the answer is no.

You mention "paid for by the government," there is no such thing. The government doesn't have money and doesn't produce a thing, it only takes at the barrel of a gun. What you should say is, "paid for by someone else," cause that is really what it means.

The government DOES NOT have the authority to force you into a contract with another private party, which is what the government is doing. If that's the case, where does it end? Why not have the government force you to purchase a subscription at futures.io (formerly BMT) since it is probably the best trading site out there after all ...... , what about the govt forcing us to only buy cars from Chevy? Why not force us to only purchase organic food since it may be healthier? What about forcing us to pay for a gym membership so we will remain healthy? Are we making this ONE exception for health insurance and then the government will never do such a thing again?

Make mountains out of mole hills often do ya...

The same people who lose sleep worrying that the "unwashed masses" will get " free" insurance are also against the law requiring the "unwashed masses" to buy their own insurance... WTF

If you required everyone to buy their own insurance... how would you be paying their insurance anyway...

Obama has said he is willing to negotiate on the mandated coverage, but the Republicans have said no dice... they want to throw the baby out with the bath water and talk about adopting another kid later.

They can do away with the mandatory coverage... fine by me... But I will fight tooth and nail to keep the provisions I listed earlier.

Yes it is absurd that a new law had to be passed to force the Insurance industry to abide by contract law.

No the Republicans would never have taken that step themselves.

TMFT HeathlCare Reform:

Everyone is eligible to buy the same health insurance coverage as the US Congress for the same premiums Congressmen pay.

It's not bad , you can get complete coverage for a family of 4 for $300 per month. Single plans start at around $150 a month.

Relieve companies from having to provide insurance for their employees. Republicans can't complain about lowering cost for businesses.

People would still have the option of buying health insurance else where .

Problem Solved.

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  #28 (permalink)
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ThatManFromTexas View Post
Make mountains out of mole hills often do ya...



TMFT HeathlCare Reform:

Everyone is eligible to buy the same health insurance coverage as the US Congress for the same premiums Congressmen pay.

It's not bad , you can get complete coverage for a family of 4 for $300 per month. Single plans start at around $150 a month.

Relieve companies from having to provide insurance for their employees. Republicans can't complain about lowering cost for businesses.

People would still have the option of buying health insurance else where .

Problem Solved.

I didn't understand what you meant by the first part of the statement that I deleted from your quote, so no biggie.

But your ideas, have essentially nothing to do with the healthcare bill as it stands now. It's completely different as it attempts to somehow cover people for FREE.

But YOUR ideas for TMFT healthcare as mentioned in the quote above, I wouldn't have a problem with it. If somehow families of 4 could be covered on a MASS scale at that cost, fine. But I suspect that once whatever congress has is opened up to mass public, the costs would be quite a bit higher. I don't know for sure, but I would think congress's insurance is probably in some way subsidized by the taxpayers.

But, I still maintain that this idea of FREE healthcare needs to go away. Nothing in life is free, SOMEBODY has to pay for it. People NEED to be connected with the cost of their healthcare in some way.

But the mandate, imo is absolutely absurd. Everything the govt does is at the end of a gun, so I think the government need be extremely judicious in waving that gun around.

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ThatManFromTexas View Post
Make mountains out of mole hills often do ya...

The same people who lose sleep worrying that the "unwashed masses" will get " free" insurance are also against the law requiring the "unwashed masses" to buy their own insurance... WTF



Ok, I get what you are saying now. I am totally opposed to the idea of people not being able to buy their own insurance, or at least I am opposed to it being as difficult as it is, believe me I know. But..... And I hate to make this a republican/democrat thing, but that is totally a Democrat thing. Republicans have been talking about allowing people to purchase individual insurance across state lines for years! That alone could make it easier for people like us to get insurance. I'm sure even you have to admit that?

People who have to buy privately always get screwed, and that's a problem. No argument from me there, but a mandate isn't the answer.


ThatManFromTexas View Post
If you required everyone to buy their own insurance... how would you be paying their insurance anyway...

This here I think is obvious. B/c the bill is attempting to cover 30 million people who don't have it now. Now of course there are a lot of people in that group that could afford it that choose not to have it. But there are still a lot of people in that group that will essentially just be getting a free ride.

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forrestang View Post
Ok, I get what you are saying now. I am totally opposed to the idea of people not being able to buy their own insurance, or at least I am opposed to it being as difficult as it is, believe me I know. But..... And I hate to make this a republican/democrat thing, but that is totally a Democrat thing. Republicans have been talking about allowing people to purchase individual insurance across state lines for years! That alone could make it easier for people like us to get insurance. I'm sure even you have to admit that?

People who have to buy privately always get screwed, and that's a problem. No argument from me there, but a mandate isn't the answer.


This here I think is obvious. B/c the bill is attempting to cover 30 million people who don't have it now. Now of course there are a lot of people in that group that could afford it that choose not to have it. But there are still a lot of people in that group that will essentially just be getting a free ride.

Cancel the mandate...I don't care... I just want to be able to buy the damn stuff and not have it cancelled on me when I need to use it. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I should be able to buy the same coverage that we provide for free to convicts. I don't think that is too much to ask.

If the provisions I listed above are abolished ... I will probably not be able to buy health insurance for what ever amount of time is left of my life

I do take issue when Insurance companies and Republicans tell me the solution is for me to die as quickly and cheaply as possible. Believe it or not... I am not enthused with their solution.

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