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The Truth: NinjaTrader
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The Truth: NinjaTrader

  #321 (permalink)
Elite Member
Calgary, AB
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, IB, TOS, MC
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"sick" business model?!

First, great site thanks for BM and all the members contributing!

Here are my thoughts and one of my first contribution. I can't comment at all on NT 6.5 since I've got involved with NT development only late last year and became more active this year. As such I've never even attempted to do anything with 6.5.
NT 7 development somewhat frustrating and slow besides the bugs however acknowledged yet beta.
From my developer point of view I'd like to have more control on the programming side meaning I'd like to use rather VS to control my projects than the NT provided environment. Not sure if any useful links anywhere or any discussion in that matter.
I know this approach of the development is NOT supported by NT at all and could cause a lots of headaches down the road so any comments or links to other sites and threads are welcome.
I've read somewhere that NT used to have a .sln file with the 5.x version however they seemed to discontinue with newer versions.
My NT generic experience:
As per support very responsive, prompt reply however beyond the basic level especially when it comes to coding is not very useful. The rest again was already written very well by the rest of the community.

What I have not read much about yet - and that might be because there are a lots of stuff on even this forum and just did not come across yet - about the NT business model which seem to be somewhat popular across this side of the software business. I firmly believe the business model does slow down the NT development as well degrade the support for especially owners of the product.

Disclosure, I do own NT license.
I am in IT business for many years and when we /THE COMPANY/ purchase a software we pay a yearly maintenance fee. For the maintenance fee - usually around 17% of the purchase price - we get software upgrades and support.

I have no idea how many people has bought NT however for the examples I'll use a starting number 1,000.
Let say the average purchase price was $1,000 and 1,000 has bought the product. At 17% maintenance fee the monthly extra income for NT would be ~14k. The extra amount would allow to hire some more stuff to have especially for paying customers a better service.
From a paying customer point of view the 17% would cost approx. $14/month.
Personally /I hope I am not alone/ I'd happily pay $14/month for faster release cycles, better documentation etc... Well this is my thought process and obviously numbers can be changed so please focus on the concept when you make your comments.
I am not saying abandon the current business model meaning provide NT free to users to experiment, just improve it, which at the end would create a happier and faster growing customer base?! Thoughts?

cul8r, atata

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  #322 (permalink)
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For some reason I am thinking NT has around 30,000 customers, can't remember where I got that number from though. But, I am not clear on how many are using the free version vs how many pay. Even those that 'pay', it is unclear how many are getting special deals from brokers doing the licensing vs paying full retail @ ninjatrader.

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  #323 (permalink)
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Futures Experience: Beginner
 
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It's a fact that part of the NT business model is getting commission from brokes who are requesting NT serial numbers. Even so, they must get money from the brokers commission from trades.

Why do I say that ? Because dukascopy refused to give that to NT and NT has no connection to dukascopy because of this !!!!

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  #324 (permalink)
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atata View Post
I have no idea how many people has bought NT however for the examples I'll use a starting number 1,000.
Let say the average purchase price was $1,000 and 1,000 has bought the product. At 17% maintenance fee the monthly extra income for NT would be ~14k. The extra amount would allow to hire some more stuff to have especially for paying customers a better service.
From a paying customer point of view the 17% would cost approx. $14/month.
Personally /I hope I am not alone/ I'd happily pay $14/month for faster release cycles, better documentation etc... Well this is my thought process and obviously numbers can be changed so please focus on the concept when you make your comments.
I am not saying abandon the current business model meaning provide NT free to users to experiment, just improve it, which at the end would create a happier and faster growing customer base?! Thoughts?

NT is making money hand over fist, and they have been hiring people to help them out. If they actually got their act together, they could make a ton more, but they have sufficiently proved that the company is not a brain trust. One of the key issues, is they try to do everything for everyone to generate more subscriptions, and in doing so, do everything ok and very little great.

Personally, I would not pay a maintenance fee unless I knew I was getting top notch support.

I have been very bearish on NT, but am still hopeful that they do eventually get it together.

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  #325 (permalink)
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NT crashed today on a crucial moment. That really pissed me off. I was in a trade and was going to enter another one.

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  #326 (permalink)
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Australia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Welcome to the club. NT has cost me alot from crashes and bugs. It's hard enough battling the market without having to battle the software that is your weapon to battle the market with.

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  #327 (permalink)
Elite Member
Italy (IT)
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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MetalTrade View Post
NT crashed today on a crucial moment. That really pissed me off. I was in a trade and was going to enter another one.


webart View Post
Welcome to the club. NT has cost me alot from crashes and bugs. It's hard enough battling the market without having to battle the software that is your weapon to battle the market with.

Is this NT7 you are talking about?

Anyway I do not understand why people insists to use NT7 for real trading, maybe likes to lose money?
It is still in beta , every day comes out with a bug.....buhhh.

Luke.

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.
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  #328 (permalink)
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LukeGeniol View Post
Anyway I do not understand why people insists to use NT7 for real trading, maybe likes to lose money?

It is still in beta , every day comes out with a bug.....buhhh.

Well, 6.5 still has bugs, crashes, hangs, uses too much memory, ...

I started using NT7 in the initial beta last year (though not for trading until earlier this year), in order to get access to new features and to help get it debugged. I found it to be quite stable for what I was using. I eventually removed 6.5 completely because I was tired of maintaining two platforms and I was not seeing any issues with NT7. The one thing I did learn the hard way, was not to upgrade to each new version of the beta right away, at least not on your live system.

Unfortunately, if nobody was using it, then it would never get debugged.

They claim it is close to going live as the number of serious issues is going down, but if you look at the release notes, they are still fixing a lot of issues. This is how NT does business. I remember using the 6.5 beta for a long time, before it went live. It will be the same for the next version of NT as well.

Now, it probably is true that most people should not be executing real trades with it unless they have their brokers number directly accessible, but I would argue that is true regardless of the platform you are using.

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  #329 (permalink)
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LukeGeniol View Post
Is this NT7 you are talking about?

Anyway I do not understand why people insists to use NT7 for real trading, maybe likes to lose money?
It is still in beta , every day comes out with a bug.....buhhh.

Luke.

I traded with NT 7 for charting and 6.5 for executions until beta 12 (or so). Then went to 2 versions of 7 on 2 separate computers. Even when NT7 had a hang on Friday, I was able to execute orders on my 2nd system. So I think the statement maybe likes to lose money is a miss-characterization of why I do this.

R.I.P. Andy Zektzer (ZTR), 1960-2010.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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  #330 (permalink)
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aslan View Post
...................................
Unfortunately, if nobody was using it, then it would never get debugged.
...............................

I didnt want to be a beta tester with my money.........sorry.


ZTR View Post
I traded with NT 7 for charting and 6.5 for executions until beta 12 (or so). Then went to 2 versions of 7 on 2 separate computers. Even when NT7 had a hang on Friday, I was able to execute orders on my 2nd system. So I think the statement maybe likes to lose money is a miss-characterization of why I do this.

I'm glad to hear you are doing well with NT7.

I have not many prob cos I'm using only DOM, and soon I think I will leave this too.

Luke.

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.
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