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The Truth: NinjaTrader
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The Truth: NinjaTrader

  #111 (permalink)
Senior Member
sea side
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 217 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 86 given, 25 received

FBJS,

Thank you !
I have plan to run execution/charting software from one machine different disks, don't know yet whether it will give some positive outcome.
Will go deeper in virtual machine issue, unfortunately I'm not programmer, but due to the reason that I have to trade for living, I'm looking deeply in all things I'm getting info could be useful for stable and fast work of hardware/software/connection.
For execution I use now CTS, I'm sure you know what is it, but it's not quite friendly for historical research, so I'm having trial of Ninja 6.5 and really like it, besides I have plan to get NT 6.5 further just for realtime charting or continue to use it for historical purposes.
I had idea to put NT 6.5 on CTS datafeed for charting and run it separately, but don't evaluated yet whether that is good idea and whether it's possible, however CTS has open API. I don;t want to make "super mess" of frontends, I just want to have reliable, fast and comfortable execution and charting.
Due to the fact, that I'm trying to find "really important market price levels" I'm paying additional attention to T&S.
I'm not consider use of Ninja 7 in near future also because "decreased" refresh rate it makes market picture "censored".
I'm also searching now for really "institutional" datafeeds, just want to know more about it.
Now, after your explanation about Ninja, it become quite clear and obvious why Ninja decreased refresh rate as some people runs NT at full capacity on machines which just unable to handle such volume of info what makes software/hardware crashes.
But I think may be there also some impact from competitors to reduce advantage of Ninja.
For example TT almost has no any limits, but it just will not open/run on "weak" machine.
When I did test of datafeeds I got following results (in decreasing order all live)
Zen Fire, CTS, TT, Pats (don't tested CQG and IQ)
and a bit wonder why Zen Fire is cheapest whereas all other relatively in one price line?

Krgds,
Andrew


FBJS View Post
The limitation for the refresh rate is in the software, not the feed... therefore, if you still run NT 6.5 you should be able to see unfiltered trades on your time and sales. The best solution is to run a separate copy of NT 6.5 in a virtual machine, which is what I do.

Ninjatrader basically made this decision because they don't want some people to set their time and sales to a refresh rate that degrades performance on their computer and then go complaining to tech support about it. (The fact that these guys should be able to program a time and sales ticker without completely chewing up the CPU is another matter, but I digress...)

In any case, they decided to just disable the option to show unfiltered trades for everybody, instead of allowing it and surrounding it with a big warning popup, as they properly should have done. Ray (the president of NT) is incredibly stubborn and pig-headed about stuff like this, you essentially have to beat him over the head with a baseball bat to get him to change his mind about anything on the performance front. The only reason they even made the charts able to refresh at anything less than 500 ms is because just about everybody on their message boards complained about it. They also weren't going to have templates available the same way as they currently exist in 6.5 until a bunch of people complained about that too. (Initially they said it was impossible, then miraculously it got added in the next beta release after multiple comments were made about it.) Since less people will probably complain about this refresh issue with time and sales, I wouldn't expect to see it changed. Just run a separate copy of NT 6.5, or you can code up an indicator that displays scrolling trades on every received tick if you want.

I have attached an indicator that someone on their message boards coded up which displays time and sales data on every tick if added to an NT 7 chart. You can test it out to see if it works... I haven't tried it myself.


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  #112 (permalink)
Just starting out...
South Shore, KY
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
jra_020883's Avatar
 
Posts: 10 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

GoldStandards,

I've used Ninjatrader for 6 months, and trade with it live. I've never had any crashes or database problems.

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  #113 (permalink)
Banned: trolling
NYC + NY / USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
Favorite Futures: EMD, 6J, ZB
 
kronie's Avatar
 
Posts: 798 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 216 given, 498 received



cclsys View Post
Somebody above mention Photon. There is a brokerage linked to them that is offering $2.00 R/T which for active scalpers will more than make up for $150 per month leasing. Looks interesting:
RATES

their site mentions this:


Virtual Private Trading Servers

Using Microsoft Hyper-V with Server 2008 you can rent an operating system in our data center. If you have an automated trading system and would like to take the next step in getting higher reliability and faster speeds you will be able to rent an OS with dedicated memory and shared CPU. This means that you will be in the same data center as our trading gateways. You will access your OS and related trading applications via terminal services over the internet. Get ready for the next step in trading.


Microsoft Hyper-V virtualization is the highest performance windows virtualization solution availible. With Enlightened I/O and Intel VT, virtual instances will run at near native speed.

-------

that's some impressive setup, but then again, how far is one willing to go to just make $150 daily and call it a day?

as with all things balance is required

X-Trader is way outdated, and not as flexible as NT or even TS, but in its day, it was cutting edge, and is still (reportedly) used by pros especially large floor traders to scalp and cause those range bound chop sessions we all complain about

NT6.5 -- spend some time with their techs and let them tele-connect to your platform and uncheck a few boxes that are defaulted in the control center and free up your configuration. that should help reduce the tie-ups and fail-overs that keep occurring and spinning out of control and hanging your machine....

fwiw

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  #114 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
wny
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja, excel
Favorite Futures: YM, equities
 
darthtrader3.6's Avatar
 
Posts: 86 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 6 given, 46 received


Andrew View Post
Darthtrader,

Really good and wise decision. Have you done anything regarding that ?

Krgds,
Andrew

I've started the process but it will be quite a long one. The only thing I've really done so far is bought matlab and have been trying to learn to code in it. Also learning VBA in excel to keep better stats on my trades until i know matlab better(and replace the ninja performance screen instead of waiting for them to open this open down the road programmatically). For Ninja, I got in on the second 7 beta wave but pretty much stopped and want to see what the production version looks like before wasting any hard work on it. While Ray and Ninja are very stubborn I do love the scope of what they are trying to do and give them the benefit of the doubt that they will have to make decisions that are in their own best financial interest to keep ninja viable that may conflict with mine.
Ninja is also open ended enough that I imagine most the "issues" will have work arounds if we get enough smart people using it who are willing to share their work. I've bitched on the Ninja forum for awhile that we need an unofficial board and was thrilled to find this site.

Overall while its easy to throw stones at Ninja, without it you would be forced to go for something like neoticker and open up a whole other can of worms, worms that you would have to largely deal with completely alone.

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  #115 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
wny
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja, excel
Favorite Futures: YM, equities
 
darthtrader3.6's Avatar
 
Posts: 86 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 6 given, 46 received


FBJS View Post
Since less people will probably complain about this refresh issue with time and sales, I wouldn't expect to see it changed. Just run a separate copy of NT 6.5, or you can code up an indicator that displays scrolling trades on every received tick if you want.

I have attached an indicator that someone on their message boards coded up which displays time and sales data on every tick if added to an NT 7 chart. You can test it out to see if it works... I haven't tried it myself.

Could someone who has 7 installed try this out(hopefully someone who uses the tape to trade)? If this works, its actually fantastic and better than what we have with the time and sales window in 6.5...I never thought about how baddass it would be to have time and sales in the same window as the chart. Not to mention this then means you can do whatever you want with the tape as far as hacking it.

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  #116 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, TX
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Currencies
 
hondo69's Avatar
 
Posts: 165 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 57 given, 240 received

I've been using Ninja without any crashes or major bugs for a year now. So in general I'm fairly happy with it, especially with websites like this one that offers Ninja help and indicators.

My trading is done with a partner using TradeStation. For the life of me, I can't get even the simplest chart of mine to match his. For example, take a 5 minute chart. The two match pretty close, within a tick. But as soon as I add the most simple indicator problems arise.

If I add a SMA with the same period setting the two couldn't be more different. The SMA is a pretty basic tool yet major differences show. With strict trading rules to follow it's critical to match my charts with TradeStation and can't even get in the ballpark.

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  #117 (permalink)
Senior Member
sea side
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 217 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 86 given, 25 received

Hondo,

Do you mean that same period SMAs plotted on same period timeframe on NT and TS are differs ?

Krgds,
Andrew


hondo69 View Post
I've been using Ninja without any crashes or major bugs for a year now. So in general I'm fairly happy with it, especially with websites like this one that offers Ninja help and indicators.

My trading is done with a partner using TradeStation. For the life of me, I can't get even the simplest chart of mine to match his. For example, take a 5 minute chart. The two match pretty close, within a tick. But as soon as I add the most simple indicator problems arise.

If I add a SMA with the same period setting the two couldn't be more different. The SMA is a pretty basic tool yet major differences show. With strict trading rules to follow it's critical to match my charts with TradeStation and can't even get in the ballpark.


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  #118 (permalink)
Elite Member
London
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: MC & Ninja mainly
 
Posts: 130 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 47 received

I see AynRandFan hasn't posted since the original post however their main requirements would be better served by Neoticker. It is robust and efficient. Having said that if un attended automation is your ultimate goal (AynRandFan eluded to that) you probably want something that can be run on a brokers infrastructure (strategy runner for example) unless you are going to invest in fault tolerance and redundancy (or are prepared to take your licks when you have an outage). One thing is for sure personally I wouldn't entertain the thought of using Ninja, Multicharts, TS, MT4 etc. That would be like doing air traffic control on win95.

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  #119 (permalink)
Just starting out...
utah
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker/Data: Mirus/zen-fire
Favorite Futures: TF
 
Posts: 11 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 2 given, 9 received

I do not understand why people are complaining about NT. I run mine on my laptop with no problems. It has froze 2 times that I can remember in the 2 years I have been using it. May be I do not have enough charts open or indicators running to freeze the software. I also do not know why people complain about the refresh rate. They used to trade off of ticker tape. Talk about a delay. I am not a programmer at all, maybe that is why I do not think that NT has to many limitations. I focus on my trading and use the tools that I have, limited or not.

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  #120 (permalink)
Elite Member
Vancouver, BC
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Amp Futures/CQG and Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: ES
 
exiledgoblin's Avatar
 
Posts: 65 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 6 given, 14 received


I have been using NinjaTrader for about a year (mostly sim trading). I too have my concerns:

1. NT is a bandwidth sucking pig...I have a highspeed internet connection and a quad-core desktop machine dedicated to trading and it often bogs down just refreshing a chart.
2. I like the chart trader but the limitations of what kinds of things you can display on a single chart can be annoying.
3. The ATM strategies sometimes seem to get "confused"...especially if I add additional contracts to a trade already in progress.
4. The data vendors support is too limited. Its especially hard to get index data like TRIN or advance/decline data.

I keep hoping that the long promised NT7 will address some of these issues but I stopped holding my breath a long time ago.

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