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The Truth: NinjaTrader
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The Truth: NinjaTrader

  #1031 (permalink)
Elite Member
Paris
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: NinjaTrader
 
Posts: 1,178 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 228 given, 4,097 received

Remember that on managed languages, you don' t have the actual memory footpring until the garbage collection runs.

It's not because you have allocated memory that this memory can't be freed if the app or the OS needs it.

Garbage collection is expensive so it does not run all the time.

To be sure you have some sort of "memory leak", you could try running GC in an indicator and see if your memory footprint goes down, as it should, or not.


protected override void OnStartUp()
{
System.GC.Collect();
}


Running GC by yourself is not recommended.... But you'll see it there in GomVolumeLadder

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  #1032 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
new york
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: X Trader, Sierra Charts, Multicharts
Broker/Data: AMP/TT, Vision/Rithmic, AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: CL, NG, gold
 
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leinster View Post
I must admit i have nothing against Ninjatrader and still use it today as soon as i complete my conversion to python ill update the platform in my user details, however for now im still with it / stuck with it.

To be fair the support from Ninja is excellent and thats a credit to the team of employees and management. Truly excellent support.

However even if support is excellent there are serious issues with the product architecture that really need to be resolved / looked into closer. If im putting significant money on the line to trade and my platform cracks up due to something silly then i am not happy about it. This is much less of a concern if your not using automated trading.

Basic connection handling and infallible fallover support should be a minimum prerequiisite to a trading platform.

Even the post regarding the submit your automated strategy shows how fallible it is i have read numerous times ohh this is just the same as been live this disconnect this forgotten rollover etc etc, im sorry but im certain a hedge fund will not accept this.

For the price its okay as a product but its like taking a fiat punto to a formula 1 track and thinking ur going to win, its not going to get around the track.
@Xeno what platform are you using / looking at now ?

What is this Python you speak of ?
Is it a platform ? Software ?

I switched to Sierra Charts and never looked back at Ninja. Most of my time in Ninja was spent troubleshooting.

shane

thanks
shane

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  #1033 (permalink)
Elite Member
UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker/Data: Mirus/Zen
Favorite Futures: Futures - bonds, currencies, index
 
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leinster View Post


@Xeno what platform are you using / looking at now ?

My broker dropped my favourite product so I pulled my money out and haven't signed up with another one yet. When I do, I'll probably still use Ninja, since I can't be bothered to recode everything for another platform, and I have *lots* of code which makes trading with Ninja better and lower risk than the out of the box platform.

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  #1034 (permalink)
Elite Member
Traverse City + Michigan
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Es Futures
 
Posts: 1 since Oct 2013
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Question on data feeds

Hi I am a new member on the forum and my 1st post
I use NT 7 v16 I have CQG as my data provider. I am looking at the Gom Ladder and the market/profile indicators. Will CQG run it or will I need to upgrade to something ex:IQfeed?
CQG has low comissions and does not require a monthly fee.
Any thoughts would be appreciated

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  #1035 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Favorite Futures: ES
 
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adamw4567 View Post
Hi I am a new member on the forum and my 1st post
I use NT 7 v16 I have CQG as my data provider. I am looking at the Gom Ladder and the market/profile indicators. Will CQG run it or will I need to upgrade to something ex:IQfeed?
CQG has low comissions and does not require a monthly fee.
Any thoughts would be appreciated

yes, Gom with run with CQG.

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  #1036 (permalink)
Elite Member
Toronto, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MT4
Broker/Data: Amp/CQG, Citibank
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, 6E, ES, TF, EURUSD, GBPJPY, AUDUSD
 
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adamw4567 View Post
Hi I am a new member on the forum and my 1st post
I use NT 7 v16 I have CQG as my data provider. I am looking at the Gom Ladder and the market/profile indicators. Will CQG run it or will I need to upgrade to something ex:IQfeed?
CQG has low comissions and does not require a monthly fee.
Any thoughts would be appreciated

Noting @cory has already responded, just adding that it will indeed work fine. You're likely talking of the Amp/CQG combo, which, gives you the full unfiltered feed, by way of getting you historical data via Ninjatrader Corp controlled and housed servers, while the realtime data comes from CQG themselves. All in all, it is the same data as the separate cost CQG datafeed, and the important part is, it is unfiltered, meaning raw, which means all market instrument ticks will reach your PC and thus the GOM indis will capture them. Only difference with this NT supplied feed and CQG's $$$ one is there might be downtime incurred because of NT data problems, but, while that used to be a slight issue, it has been quite good for the last 6-12 months, due to some improvements with the NT server infrastructure.

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  #1037 (permalink)
Banned: trolling
NYC + NY / USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: "I trade, therefore, I AM!"; Theme Song: "Atomic Dog!"
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AynRandFan View Post
This is going to be a different kind of post. A different kind of thread. Mike, in fact, might not want it here, but I'm going to put it here, because it needs to be here, and what I have to say needs to be said.

I have just removed NinjaTrader from my computer. Literally, I am done with it. I will not ever be using it ever again. I spent close to $500 buying indicators for it, and that's money wasted, as well.

The sad truth is that NinjaTrader is an unstable piece of junk. I truly wish that it wasn't a piece of junk -- really, I do. The non-stop freezing, the constant hang-ups, the complete inability of NinjaTrader to deal with any meaningful amount of tick data... all of these are deal-breakers for me.

They should also be deal-breakers for you.

Look, I run a very powerful system, here. Quad-core, 8GB of RAM, multiple monitors, cross-fired video cards, my own UPS (uninterruptable power supply) -- some of the most demanding Engineering software in the world doesn't crash my system -- but NinjaTrader somehow manages to crash itself constantly.

Listen to me:

When it comes to managing your own real money, I don't see how it can even be debated that platform stability is essential. I can not trust NinjaTrader to even run correctly -- let alone entrust it to trade for me.

The truth is that you can't trust it, either.

And if you've used it enough, you know it.

Those of you who are thinking about using NinjaTrader to automatize trading for you need to really think twice -- no joke, here. The "software" NinjaTrader sells is, in my opinion, the junkiest, buggiest, piece of amateurish crap I've seen in quite some time -- maybe all the way back to the spreadsheets of the 1980's. If I had purchased it, I would literally file a suit at law to obtain my money back -- and not because I even care about the money: this junk they're selling is pure garbage.

You, as a trader, deserve better. And you should NOT settle for this kind of shoddy, second-rate crap to trade with.

Mike, thanks for creating a very cool forum here, and thanks for all the free indicators and advice. It's a very cool thing you've put together here for everybody, no question about it.

But the sad truth is that NinjaTrader, as a platform, isn't worthy of all of this effort.

It's junk.

@AynRandFan

I would think your comments were based on Ninja 6.5 and previous versions, in which case you were not alone in your claims.

I worked with a team of wonderful traders who brought me into their advanced group, and we became beta testors (there were so many of them, so that's nothing special in its own rights) for the soon to be released NT 7.x in 2010. Since that time, the leader / originator of that group passed, and these threads expressed their sorrow over that event. As things have progressed, there's a thread regarding "wish list for NT 8x" that continues to express sentiments similar to yours, but from the perspective of those of us who remain heavily invested in this platform.

What I have seen from other traders showing off their new tools, is the competition have caught up and surpassed Ninja, and Ninja is playing catch up. It will be interesting to see this new version 8.

One critical factor that will determine whether it continues forward as a viable platform is whether the transition to ver. 8 from ver. 7.x will be seemless or require as significant a reprogram of all one's indicators, as the process of changing from ver. 6.5 to ver. 7.x.

If the transition honors one's investment in time, purchased second and third party inidcators, as well as investment in Gomi and other platform data collections or dishonor that. That will be a massive determinate factor, because simply put, if the vested installed base has to retool, then the discussion of making a clean break will resurface all over again.

Some outstanding factors are:
1) multi-threaded applications, which take advantage of multiple core processors
2) OEM support for enhanced system features such as Ramdisks, Cached disk access, memory resident modules instead of HDD (excessive) I/O operations (paging and the like)
3) self healing software modules that essentially prevent paging and process loops (commonly known as hang ups)
4) easier primary directory redirects (where one can specify where they want their trading system files located)

Another factor of competition that has introduced itself into the equation are the role of the HFT operators and Co-Location servers, both competing against the sophisticated retail trading public (that's our classification / category). On the higher side of the equation, the Wall Street, Pool Operators and Hedge Fund operators employ programmers and easily pay them well in excess of $200,000 yearly (in 2010 - 2013 dollars) along with generous 30%+ annual bonuses (non-compete, non-disclosure clauses). With skillsets like those, you can be sure that their code is as optimized as one could imagine, just to provide as much speed advantage of their code over all other competitors (insert our category of Ninja users, as well as any other retail trading platform). So in essence, as a block of traders represented on the exchanges (CME, ICE, etc) our group represents a huge slow moving beast in which to trade against. Hence those who have un-optimized code loose, and loose again on so many levels as to make it impossible to succeed from trading for a living.

so, in short, we wait with baited breathe!
also, in fairness, other competitive trading software(s) are facing similar challenges and critiques, and very few if any are stand-outs in their categories.

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  #1038 (permalink)
Elite Member
San Diego
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader/Think or Swim
Broker/Data: TDA/Interactive Brokers/ Data Feed TDA & IBK ( Dropped Kinetick)
Favorite Futures: Stocks NASDAQ
 
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AynRandFan View Post
This is going to be a different kind of post. A different kind of thread. Mike, in fact, might not want it here, but I'm going to put it here, because it needs to be here, and what I have to say needs to be said.

I have just removed NinjaTrader from my computer. Literally, I am done with it. I will not ever be using it ever again. I spent close to $500 buying indicators for it, and that's money wasted, as well.

The sad truth is that NinjaTrader is an unstable piece of junk. .... It's junk.

The way I like to look at it is that it is much like one of the Erector Sets we used to get as kids. Remember the commercials would show all sorts of cool things built with an Erector Set, yet when you got yours under the Christmas tree even after many hours of labor our stuff never looked like that on the commercials...

NT7 well I'm learning more every day and still consider myself a beginner. Just last week I was reminded that after making any changes to your workspace that you should also make a backup workspace for the time you accidentally close one of your favorite chart setups, market analyzer, etc.. Having the second workspace would have saved me time in getting my program back up to what I would consider tradable status.

All said and done I have been very happy with NT7, support, and 999 plus pages of documentation.

Great stuff.

p.s. Mike I didn't see any further activity in this thread by the author, did you?

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  #1039 (permalink)
Elite Member
Birmingham UK
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: IG/eSignal
Favorite Futures: Dax
 
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Posts: 3,340 since Dec 2012
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killing a myth

I feel the need to kill a developing myth regarding Ninja code editing and extra memory usage, it's correct but largely irrelevant as the OS paging and MMU systems will take care of nearly all of it (only intertwined debug link references, code patterns, debug DLL's, etcetera will make a small difference to cache level performance or page hit counts). Once the development code stops being used the dormant pages will just be released out of short term cache levels into slower memory and ultimately just sit in the stale page pools.

As for any object-oriented software you will see Ninja making many memory page Soft Faults in the Task Manager, usually thousands a second, that's normal and it wouldn't work otherwise. Only if you see your system registering many Hard Faults in the Resource Manager is it a real disk-hitting cpu-stopping memory issue. 900Mb for interactive/discretionary usage on an 8Gb i7 is nothing to fret about.

Travel Well
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  #1040 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Munich, Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus/Zen-Fire > Mirus/Continuum
Favorite Futures: ES
 
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djkiwi View Post
Hi guys, his is a history of my experience with ninjatrader so far:

Iteration 2. Ninjatrader 7

Also upgraded hardware to:

(a) Alienware Quad core I7 3.6 ghz
(b) 4 gb RAM
(c) 2 x gforce graphics card - 4 x 24 inch screens
(d) Windows Vista 32 bit


Iteration 3 - Hardware added

(a) Added another 4 gb of RAM for a total of 8 gb
(b) Upgraded to multihead video cards
(c) added 4 more 24 inch screens for 8 screens
(d) Upgraded to Windows 7 64 bit
(e) added another quad core alienware 12 gb as a separate backtesting, market replay and stock trading machine.

[

Hello DJ,

I need a new trading computer and your configuration seems to be exactly what I want too. Unfortunately I have no clue about hardware. Could you kindly share your detailed configuration with me and explain me the difference of having 2 x gforce graphics cards vs. multihead video cards (which one?). I would love to follow your ideas (detailed brand and model of components) in how to get a stable and good system. I'll appreciate your answer.

andreamo

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