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The Truth: NinjaTrader
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The Truth: NinjaTrader

  #1011 (permalink)
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fourtiwinks View Post
@Fat Tails,

Can I check with you whether NT7 still consumes memory if I have a lot of indicators/strategies saved in it, even if I don't use many of them on my charts?

As long as you do not edit anyone of the indicators, there is no memory usage.

If you edit anyone via File -> Utilities -> Edit Ninjascipt, then the RAM requirement rises. On my machine (workspace open + connected) NinjaTrader uses about 260 MByte of RAM. When editing an indicator this increases to about 900 k. The amount required depends on the number of indicators and strategies, which are stored as part of the NinjaTrader assembly.

The problem is that once you close the editor, RAM requirement remains at 900k. So you better close down NinjaTrader and restart it again, if you want to use it for trading.

Either code or trade, but never edit any NinjaScript files while trading.

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  #1012 (permalink)
Mike The Greek
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Thanks to all of your input now I know more and what to do to avoid the problem...thanks


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  #1013 (permalink)
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Timely advice


@sam028 and @Fat Tails,

Thanks very much for sharing!


Fat Tails View Post
...The problem is that once you close the editor, RAM requirement remains at 900k. So you better close down NinjaTrader and restart it again, if you want to use it for trading.

Either code or trade, but never edit any NinjaScript files while trading.

Woah, I didn't know about this.. What an eye-opener...

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  #1014 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.wmtrading.org 
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My Ninja Trader Truth (Automated Trading)

While I like NT's charts and think it is a reasonable discretionary trading platform thats the only positives for me.
While I understand and respect BM's reasons for going back to NT .
I can't understand all the other auto traders who stick with this inferior platform.You must have confidence in your trading platform especially when auto trading and with the crashes/error messages inherent with NT its just not possible to have that confidence IMO.

While at the moment I am live auto trading MT4 it does have disadvantages as well but the advantages in trading FX are compelling. Firstly it has had no trade execution issues over 100's of trades .
Coding resources and problem solving over the net are extensive (I haven't encountered a
problem yet) for which the solution is only a google away.

I intend to use Multicharts in the future as it seems to be the best retail auto trading platform.

I am not guided by any loyalty to a particular platform. I just want to make money.

I'm guessing that the many auto traders on here who are much smarter and better at coding than I are sticking with NT for some of the following reasons:
American Patriotism (which I respect BTW)
The substantial investment in time required to change platforms/code
Unhappiness with the way other cultures do business (not mentioning any names lol)
The theory that NT using c# code is more comprehensive therefore must be better.

Lastly look at this thread compared to this one
https://futures.io/multicharts/9159-truth-multicharts.html

If you look at the evidence there seems to be a big difference in satisfaction between the two.
Also when is NT8 coming out ......................
Don't mean to rock the boat here

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  #1015 (permalink)
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waza1960 View Post
I'm guessing that the many auto traders on here who are much smarter and better at coding than I are sticking with NT for some of the following reasons:
American Patriotism (which I respect BTW)

You are kidding. Most of the members here - including myself - are certainly not American patriots. Americans are not patriots when they are buying cars either.


waza1960 View Post
The substantial investment in time required to change platforms/code

I fully agree. It takes you months of efforts to change platforms. I have not so far managed to thoroughly test MultiCharts, and you metioned the most important single reason.


waza1960 View Post
Unhappiness with the way other cultures do business (not mentioning any names lol)
The theory that NT using c# code is more comprehensive therefore must be better.

Maybe true, but no strong arguments really.


waza1960 View Post
Lastly look at this thread compared to this one https://futures.io/multicharts/9159-truth-multicharts.html

If you look at the evidence there seems to be a big difference in satisfaction between the two. Also when is NT8 coming out ...................... Don't mean to rock the boat here


Here you are dead wrong. The "Want your NinjaTrader indicator created free" thread has 5,700 posts. The "Want your easy language indicator created free?" thread has 270 posts. You will find similar ratios for the downloads. It is simply that NinjaTrader has a larger user base, and for historical reasons, this is particularly true for this forum.


No substantial difference in satisfaction

I do not think that there is a difference in satisfaction. NinjaTrader allows you to do much more things than MultiCharts. All indicators are open code, where even the new .NET version of MultiCharts hides lots of things from the user. The fact that you can do a lot of things with NinjaTrader invites users to try the most unreasonable stuff. And yes, NinjaTrader still has a number of bugs. But this is true for MultiCharts as well.

I do not see any fundamental difference, except for the marketing concept

NinjaTrader: You are allowed to learn without paying, you will only pay once you trade live. All indicators and strategies are laid out in front of you.

MultiCharts: You have to pay first to acquire the software. The indicator code is hidden, so it is very difficult to start to code your own stuff.

The different marketing concepts explain why NinjaTrader has a larger user base - whether paying or not - than MultiCharts. And once the customers have invested in learning the software, they are less likely to change to a different product. Yo do not win a competition with substance alone, the marketing approach is as important.

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  #1016 (permalink)
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I took the plunge to Multicharts .net and I am loving it so far. Got the discounted price.

I had a bunch of indicators that I coded for NT, nothing really complicated mostly quality of life stuff and but still I was very pleasantly surprised by how trivial it was to port them to Multicharts .net. I am talking cut/paste, spend 5 minutes cleaning up here and there and done. The Visual Studio integration is awesome, just makes writing code so much better. You can do breakpoints and watch etc. Seriously download the trial version just to test the Visual Studio integration.

And best of all Multicharts connects to a *LOT* more brokers than Ninjatrader for forex. This was my pet hate of Ninjatrader.

Performance wise MC is a lot smoother than Ninjatrader. Very very noticeable during startup and even with a couple of indicators calculating on each tick I didn't notice any performance lag.


EDIT: Also wanted to add that I only do discretionary trading so I have not tested any of the auto trading stuff in Multicharts.

As for discretionary trading the biggest feature that MC has over ninjatrader is that you can attach exit strategies to already open position. For the life of me I can't figure out why Ninjatrader does not let you do that.

I have setup a few multi tier exit strats in MC with trailing stops, breakevens, multiple targets. It will definitely let me squeeze out more pips from the market for a lot less effort.


Last edited by Traderji; August 7th, 2012 at 12:45 PM.
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  #1017 (permalink)
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Traderji View Post
As for discretionary trading the biggest feature that MC has over ninjatrader is that you can attach exit strategies to already open position. For the life of me I can't figure out why Ninjatrader does not let you do that.

Be sure that's on the wish list here:
https://futures.io/ninjatrader/13894-unofficial-ninjatrader-8-wish-list-thread-ninjatrader-8-a.html

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  #1018 (permalink)
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Personally I think the management of Ninjatrader really don't give a rat's arse about actually taking on board any user feedback. What I was talking about there I suggested on the official forums almost a year and a half ago.


https://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=40213

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I have given up on these slackers. I can't be bothered waiting another year for some unknown magical release of a new version that may or may not have the feature I requested.

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  #1019 (permalink)
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Traderji View Post
Personally I think the management of Ninjatrader really don't give a rat's arse about actually taking on board any user feedback. What I was talking about there I suggested on the official forums almost a year and a half ago.


https://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=40213

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I have given up on these slackers. I can't be bothered waiting another year for some unknown magical release of a new version that may or may not have the feature I requested.


You have asked for an advanced feature - as you wanted to change the trail settings on the fly for a stop order that has been triggered by an ATM. This is possible via the SuperDOM.

But you wanted to do it via the FXProDOM or the chart trader. And NinjaTrader support has not bowed to you immediately and built it into their product. I think that you really exaggerate and that your comment above is rather impolite.

I have not managed so far to run an ATM strategy with a bracket order and a trailing stop through MultiCharts. Is this possible?

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  #1020 (permalink)
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Fat Tails View Post
You have asked for an advanced feature - as you wanted to change the trail settings on the fly for a stop order that has been triggered by an ATM. This is possible via the SuperDOM.

But you wanted to do it via the FXProDOM or the chart trader. And NinjaTrader support has not bowed to you immediately and built it into their product. I think that you really exaggerate and that your comment above is rather impolite.


Oh come off it. The functionality is already built in to the system. The order and attached ATM strategy code object is the same whether you access it via chart trader or SuperDOM or FXPro. Once the Order object is instantiated you can see it in SuperDOM, chart trader or FXPro.

I don't think extending that functionality to orders showing in FX DOM or chart trader is a "advanced feature". SuperDOM lets you edit/change the properties of the order Object, what is the big deal about allowing the FXProDOM or chart trader to edit the order?


I'll give you another example of NT's apathy to user feedback. Almost exactly a year ago, I asked if it would be possible allow directly typing in the limit price in the FXProDOM.

The way it works right now is, you select 'Limit' order which makes the limit price field editable. By default it is set to 0.000 . Then you have to press the middle mouse button over the field which will populate it with the current bid (or ask?) price. A user is not allowed to type a number in the limit price field. If you want to change the price you have to scroll using the mouse wheel a couple of pips at a time. This is very annoying. If you are attempting to scalp the Market Depth this stupid limitation is a deal breaker.

https://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=44376


Just go through the NT8 wishlist thread and there so many examples of simple user suggestions that people have made over the years which would have taken trivial development effort and resulted in a better product and satisfied users. I don't think I was out of line, if anything NT users have been too patient and polite.



Fat Tails View Post
I have not managed so far to run an ATM strategy with a bracket order and a trailing stop through MultiCharts. Is this possible?

Of course this is possible. Look at the Master Strategy icon.

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