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What is the difference in the regular Renko charts and the Median Renko charts
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What is the difference in the regular Renko charts and the Median Renko charts

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
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TheWizard,

Have you compared any of your strategies' performances using Hybrid Renko to MedianRenko?

If so, how do the performances differ?

Thanks a million!!

GasDoc

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  #12 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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GasDoc View Post
TheWizard,

Have you compared any of your strategies' performances using Hybrid Renko to MedianRenko?

If so, how do the performances differ?

Thanks a million!!

GasDoc

RenkoHybrid outperforms the old MedianRenko. I was just using MedianRenko until Rjay announced the release of RenkoHybrid. I use only RenkoHybrid bar type these days. It makes sense to me and gives me good areas to place targets, because I can see very clearly where price previously turned around or congested.

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #13 (permalink)
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TheWizard,

Thanks for your rapid response!

I've viewed the comparison photos on his site, and am about to purchase the HybridRenko chart type, but I need to confirm the chart is not "buying points into the future" by estimating or generating false price action movement to create smooth bars that begin in the middle of the prior bar.

I don't understand how HybridRenko or MedianRenko can accurately represent true price action if they're beginning each new bar in the middle of the previous bar. For example, a burst of price action that rose steadily for 3 points without retracement, in theory, would not be accurately graphed by either chart type.

I'm looking to drive my automated strategy by HybridRenko, but only if graphed price action truly reflects price movement.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!!

GasDoc

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  #14 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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GasDoc View Post
TheWizard,

Thanks for your rapid response!

I've viewed the comparison photos on his site, and am about to purchase the HybridRenko chart type, but I need to confirm the chart is not "buying points into the future" by estimating or generating false price action movement to create smooth bars that begin in the middle of the prior bar.

I don't understand how HybridRenko or MedianRenko can accurately represent true price action if they're beginning each new bar in the middle of the previous bar. For example, a burst of price action that rose steadily for 3 points without retracement, in theory, would not be accurately graphed by either chart type.

I'm looking to drive my automated strategy by HybridRenko, but only if graphed price action truly reflects price movement.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!!

GasDoc

Doc,

If you set your data series to "line on close" instead of candlesticks or Hi/Lo, you can see the action. Price moves up a bit, then down a bit, then up a bit, etc. etc. RenkoHybrid also shows that action in the form of a 'tail', which didn't show up in good ol' Ninja 6.5, when these bars were invented, and that's what attracted me to them.

When there is a burst of price action, the bars form so quickly, that they react just as any other bar type would, but I find them easier to read direction. The nice thing about them is, when you select 8 RenkoHybrid, for example, I always know that each bar will be exactly 8 ticks and I can anticipate (or rather, calculate) where to put my entry / exit based on that.

I don't think they're generating 'false' price action. If anything, there may be a slight delay in creating the bar when price is moving very quickly, but then again, it's happening so quickly I don't notice. You can't catch that kind of movement unless you've got an auto-trader strategy working for you.

I tend to use 8 Renko Hybrid or 10 or 12, as I'm not really very good at reacting quickly and having tried my hand at scalping, determined it's best for me to trade a slower moving chart.

As far as the potential problem of a new bar being created at the middle of the prior bar.... it happens so fast, when price is moving quickly, I barely notice. And, because of price retracement within a bar, it's often a very good place to try to enter (1 tick above / below the midline of the prior bar, and this bar type draws that entry for you, in the form of the "tops" or "bottoms" of each subsequent bar).

Try them out and I think you'll see what I'm talking about. They work sort of like Range bars, but without the gaps that are prominent on Range bar charts. That, and the fact that all bars are 'connected' so to speak and the fact that they, more than any other bar type, made my indicators so very, very smooth an easy to read was all it took to convince me that this is the bar type for me.

Hope that helped.

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #15 (permalink)
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the "VirtualOpen" problem

Hi,

Rjay's bar types working with a "virtual open" price... its show very cool, only on this open has never fill a trade to this time!

Strategies on NT7 with market orders will use a fill to "open" -> any backtests with HybridRenko and RJayChannel will give WRONG results!
(The virtual opens give a better entrys for the trend direction, real this never fill this prices on this open points !)

For HybridRenko and RJayChannel i have rewrite this bar types with the optional use/show only the real "open".
For the basic calc rules of "HybridRenko" and RJayChannel i use the original RJay logic (i have my real source C# code and can rewrite/change any features

My solution draw the same charts with a optical very cracy difference. Its real, all "change" points and ranges give exact the same values, only the open use and show the real prices...

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@RJay
sorry, you have cool products... only your prices for this and the missing of any informations to the real problems with the ninja market fill logic is uncool...


Last edited by TimeTrade; February 21st, 2012 at 06:40 PM.
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  #16 (permalink)
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TimeTrade View Post
Hi,

Rjay's bar types working with a "virtual open" price... its show very cool, only on this open has never fill a trade to this time!

Strategies on NT7 with market orders will use a fill to "open" -> any backtests with HybridRenko and RJayChannel will give WRONG results!
(The virtual opens give a better entrys for the trend direction, real this never fill this prices on this open points !)

For HybridRenko and RJayChannel i have rewrite this bar types with the optional use/show only the real "open".
For the basic calc rules of "HybridRenko" and RJayChannel i use the original RJay logic (i have my real source C# code and can rewrite/change any features

My solution draw the same charts with a optical very cracy difference. Its real, all "change" points and ranges give exact the same values, only the open use and show the real prices...

@RJay
sorry, you have cool products... only your prices for this and the missing of any informations to the real problems with the ninja market fill logic is uncool...

Not wanting to start WWIII, or anything, but I guess the reason they've worked so well for me for the past 2 years, is I don't use them in Auto-Trading-Stragies. I've never found an auto-trading-strategy that worked reliably. And, I don't trust a computer to trade automatically for me. (Think "Connection Lost" - it's happened several times recently during thunderstorms, or loss of internet connection because they were "working on the line" on a telephone pole somewhere down the street!) Some may, but not me. I worked hard for this $$ and I don't want to come back from watching a movie, 2 hours from now & find out the "computer" lost me $10,000.00.

As to the "virtual open", I know nothing about that. I just watch the bar form, and if it's signalling an entry, I place my entry 1 tick above or below the middle of the prior bar and usually get filled on intra-bar price retracement.

Just my 2 cents.

After all, it's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
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  #17 (permalink)
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TimeTrade View Post
Hi,

Rjay's bar types working with a "virtual open" price... its show very cool, only on this open has never fill a trade to this time!

Strategies on NT7 with market orders will use a fill to "open" -> any backtests with HybridRenko and RJayChannel will give WRONG results!
(The virtual opens give a better entrys for the trend direction, real this never fill this prices on this open points !)

For HybridRenko and RJayChannel i have rewrite this bar types with the optional use/show only the real "open".
For the basic calc rules of "HybridRenko" and RJayChannel i use the original RJay logic (i have my real source C# code and can rewrite/change any features

My solution draw the same charts with a optical very cracy difference. Its real, all "change" points and ranges give exact the same values, only the open use and show the real prices...

@RJay
sorry, you have cool products... only your prices for this and the missing of any informations to the real problems with the ninja market fill logic is uncool...

Hi TimeTrade,

I personally am not a big fan of backtesting becouse of the issue of stops not firing unless the bar closes past the stops. This anomaly yields unrealistic results.

I understand that many here like to backtest to get a feel of how well their code will perform.

For those that want to backtest Renkohybrid and /or ChannelTrend you must do the following to get correct order entries.

For RenkoHybrid, A tick slippage of 1/2 the bar height plus one tick is needed.

For ChannelTrend, A tick slippage of the bar height plus one tick is needed.

This will place the backtest order entries to the correct first tick of bar entry points.

I hope this is helpful,

RJay

P.S. No slippage is needed when testing With live data or market replay.


Last edited by RJay; February 21st, 2012 at 07:23 PM.
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  #18 (permalink)
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Erfurt Germany
 
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sorry, i a stupid programer, not a manual trader...

The theme of the thread is the compare and a discuss of the renko's and the use of this.
I love the renko logic(and all other price based types), only i think its good to understand the background logic of the software.

Now i work only a short time with NT7, before i use only my own framework... i think/hope my problems with understand the different results between real longtime Replay-Results and the standard NT7-Chart/NT7-Backtest can help other PC freaks to better use it with automated solutions.

Manual you have a big advantage: your brain and your hands... coders has additional the battle between the software logic(cracy NT7 (intrabar) fills), the real internal logic of (closed) addons(HybridRenko) and the real world (INet breaks, blocking popup PC windows,...)

No WWIII Only different ways. You trade self and say its work, this is fine.
I go the other way (programm, simulate, livetrade, replay), and yes its work full automated.
Its is a hard way with many little problems. Any software has good and bad features. I hope, with my solutions for my problems, i can others help to go and understand the the coding way of trading.

And yes, RJay's logic of HybridRenkos its one of the best variants for using price based charts.
I use the concept of RJay's mix of price based types with a additional rule (time/ticks/volume).

THX to RJay for this cool concept! (and a little sorry, i no pay/use the addon, i rewrite the same as my own plain C# code)
This with a little tickbased market statistic is the base for my (automated) trading logic.

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Last edited by TimeTrade; February 21st, 2012 at 09:23 PM.
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